Ice Melee(all) > Ice Patch

[kelika2]

Replace Ice Patch with an attack that fits the archetype

Allow Frozen Aura to form an ice patch after use in addition to its current effects.

 

Ice Patch replacement ideas:

Ice Shank/Jab:  Uses Super Strengths/Fighting Pools Jab/Boxing animation, either with a new ice dagger or ice fists

Ice Smash:  Uses Air Superiorities animation with Ice Fists

Flick Ice Shards: Can use any throwing animation with ice blasts ice shard

Greater Ice Sword

Knock Out Snow:  Knock out blows animation with ice fists

 

[Saiyajinzoningen]

but why though?

Its CC is undeniably fantastic

Even Sub zero uses a variation of this ability, so how does it not fit the archetype?

I'm not trying to be obtuse I'm just confused and a little bit stupid. 

[Rudra]

2 hours ago, Saiyajinzoningen said:

Even Sub zero uses a variation of this ability, so how does it not fit the archetype?

As does pretty much every other ice-using hero/villain/other from comics, video games, and various shows.

 

Edit: As for the why? My best guess based on previous threads and the OP itself is because it doesn't do damage.

Edited October 8, 2023 by Rudra

[arcane]

Nope, don’t like that

[Greycat]

No.

Ice patch = things falling down instead of either attacking or running away. Plus amusement.

[Yomo Kimyata]

Absolutely not.  Not even if you wanted to make this game "winnable" by toddlers.  Ice Melee is already a top if not the top performer.

[A Cat]

2 hours ago, Rudra said:

As does pretty much every other ice-using hero/villain/other from comics, video games, and various shows.

 

Edit: As for the why? My best guess based on previous threads and the OP itself is because it doesn't do damage.

 

4 hours ago, Saiyajinzoningen said:

but why though?

Its CC is undeniably fantastic

Even Sub zero uses a variation of this ability, so how does it not fit the archetype?

I'm not trying to be obtuse I'm just confused and a little bit stupid. 

If I may venture a guess, the lack of a decent low level attack chain? Frozen Fists iirc is pretty much not worth clicking. 

[Yomo Kimyata]

1 hour ago, A Cat said:

If I may venture a guess, the lack of a decent low level attack chain? Frozen Fists iirc is pretty much not worth clicking. 

 

Listen, I hate elemental swords, so all my ice melee characters use Frozen Fists.  Is it better than Ice Dancer Sword?  No.  But it is worth clicking.

 

I will go on record and say if you can't run Ice Melee from 1-10 with anything more than Frozen Fists, Brawl, and Kick, you are playing a much more difficult game than I am playing.

[kelika2]

3 hours ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

Not even if you wanted to make this game "winnable" by toddlers.

There is nothing to win in mmos.

too much free time can be a curse and mmos fill the free time quite well

and that was the point of subscription mmos

[Rudra]

2 hours ago, A Cat said:

 

If I may venture a guess, the lack of a decent low level attack chain? Frozen Fists iirc is pretty much not worth clicking. 

That is strictly a personal bias. I don't have any ice melee characters currently, but on Live I did and I used Frozen Fists. It works just fine. So no, I don't buy that argument. (Edit: Especially since if Frozen Fists were worthless to click? Then the suggestion would be to fix Frozen Fists. And it isn't.)

Edited October 8, 2023 by Rudra

[A.I.D.A.]

My ice melee character is a stalker, and since I hate the way the ice-block punches look, she's all ice swords, all the time, plus the frozen touch that does a DoT and hold, and Frost and Frozen Aura for AoE. I did end up taking Ice Patch later than I maybe should have, but that's because the info regarding its knockdown proc rate in Mids was misleading -- it actually knocks almost everyone down all the time, instead of Mids' incorrect 8% chance per second. Still never had a problem with my attack chain. Sure, I had to fill it in with Apprentice Charm and Arcane Bolt at low levels, but so does literally everyone with a secondary full of toggles. Fluid attack chains come with global recharge in later build states.

[A Cat]

5 hours ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

 

Listen, I hate elemental swords, so all my ice melee characters use Frozen Fists.  Is it better than Ice Dancer Sword?  No.  But it is worth clicking.

 

I will go on record and say if you can't run Ice Melee from 1-10 with anything more than Frozen Fists, Brawl, and Kick, you are playing a much more difficult game than I am playing.

There was some dude that did an all pool powers toon and AFAIK went through the game successfully, so that's not saying much. Frozen Fists has worse damage per animation than some AoE's. Your next attack after Frost (at least for Scrapper) is at level 18 with GIS. I'm not even advocating for improving Frozen Fists, just trying to figure out what OP is thinking, since Ice Patch is a really good power. If there is a criticism I have for Ice Melee mechanically, it is a lack of attacks early on. 

[Yomo Kimyata]

4 hours ago, kelika2 said:

There is nothing to win in mmos.

too much free time can be a curse and mmos fill the free time quite well

and that was the point of subscription mmos

 

I am not going to cave to your "I WANT MORE DPS" request.  Ice Patch provides an unlimited amount of survivability.  Go find another set to cry for more damage.

[kelika2]

38 minutes ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

 

I am not going to cave to your "I WANT MORE DPS" request.

Unless you are a dev using their player account this does not mean anything.

 

39 minutes ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

Go find another set to cry for more damage.

I said have Frozen Aura create an ice patch.

[Rudra]

18 minutes ago, kelika2 said:

Unless you are a dev using their player account this does not mean anything.

 

I said have Frozen Aura create an ice patch.

Here's the thing: you are asking to change a known good power set by replacing a known good power for the sake of adding a damaging one, delaying the benefit Ice patch grants by three or four tiers of powers depending on AT, and you aren't giving any reason why that should be needed, let alone desired. And the only thing we have to go on, is your proven fixation that every power in an attack set should be doing damage. So why are you requesting this? After 13 replies to your OP, 2 of which were your own replies, there has been no reason given for the request.

[BrandX]

10 hours ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

Absolutely not.  Not even if you wanted to make this game "winnable" by toddlers.  Ice Melee is already a top if not the top performer.

 

I don't recall anyone ever saying Ice Melee was a top performer but did mention it best played on Stalkers.

[Luminara]

7 hours ago, kelika2 said:

I said have Frozen Aura create an ice patch.

 

So players who don't want Ice Patch, for example, brutes who want enemies attacking them, will have to skip Frozen Aura instead.

 

No.

[BrandX]

32 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

So players who don't want Ice Patch, for example, brutes who want enemies attacking them, will have to skip Frozen Aura instead.

 

No.

 

Brutes build Fury with attacking, so would Ice Patch really be an issue?  TW is all about knock down and been plenty of those.

[Luminara]

3 minutes ago, BrandX said:

Brutes build Fury with attacking

 

Magnitude Expression: minmax(0.25 * target.EventCount>AttackedByOtherClick, 0, 5) * minmax((5 - 5 * source>kMeter) * (100 - 100 * source>kMeter) / 20, 0, 10)

[BrandX]

33 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

Magnitude Expression: minmax(0.25 * target.EventCount>AttackedByOtherClick, 0, 5) * minmax((5 - 5 * source>kMeter) * (100 - 100 * source>kMeter) / 20, 0, 10)

 

Ice Patch still has a limit of 5 targets on the patch.  

 

I can only think back to my Ice/Fire Brute's farming missions, but keeping Fury wasn't an issue.

 

Mind you, I'm not saying combine Ice Patch and Force Aura, but there's plenty of sets with lots of KD that keep Fury up.

[kelika2]

1 hour ago, Luminara said:

 

So players who don't want Ice Patch, for example, brutes who want enemies attacking them, will have to skip Frozen Aura instead.

 

No.

fury worry has not been a thing for like 2 years

[SwitchFade]

Pocky is really good when frozen.

 

Also, I prefer beer glasses frozen.

[srmalloy]

5 hours ago, BrandX said:

Brutes build Fury with attacking, so would Ice Patch really be an issue?  TW is all about knock down and been plenty of those.

Okay, look at it from the other side — the proposal is to fold Ice Patch into Frozen Aura to allow its spot to be replaced with another attack. Bear in mind that this will require all the attacks to be rebalanced to avoid giving Ice Melee an unwarranted advantage; which other attack(s) get nerfed, and by how much, to account for the extra damage done by the new attack? And what is this going to do to Ice Melee characters that already have completed builds, and would require complete rebuilding to be able to slot the new attack? The proposal jerks over every existing character with Ice Melee because you want a cleaner attack chain.

[Luminara]

  

4 hours ago, kelika2 said:

fury worry has not been a thing for like 2 years

 

 

[Rudra]

13 minutes ago, srmalloy said:

Okay, look at it from the other side — the proposal is to fold Ice Patch into Frozen Aura to allow its spot to be replaced with another attack. Bear in mind that this will require all the attacks to be rebalanced to avoid giving Ice Melee an unwarranted advantage; which other attack(s) get nerfed, and by how much, to account for the extra damage done by the new attack? And what is this going to do to Ice Melee characters that already have completed builds, and would require complete rebuilding to be able to slot the new attack? The proposal jerks over every existing character with Ice Melee because you want a cleaner attack chain.

It was @kelika2 that was requesting the change (and not giving any form of reason for it). @BrandX doesn't seem to be for or against the OP, just questioning Ice Melee's ranking as presented on this thread among the other sets and questioning if Ice Patch really affects a Brute's ability to build and maintain Fury.