Focused Feedback: VEAT Updates

[Rimerat]

10 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

In addition as well, could the defense on combat training: defense be changed to 2.5% to all 3 positionals, or even just 5% to aoe? Being melee defense only is really pretty dumb on a fortunata build. At least aoe defense, or all 3, would work on either widow or fortunata builds.

I agree with this. Fortunatas don't always need melee defense in the first place, and NWidow is easily capped to Melee defense from slotting. 2.% to all or 5% to AOE would be a huge improvement.

 

I'm not sure its a needed improvement, but it would definitely be cool.

 

edit: For reference, I basically only take Combat Training: defense later in the new Night Widow build for a free LOTG slot.

Edited February 8 by Wiseguy

[Wavicle]

14 minutes ago, csr said:

still think it would be appropriate for Fortunatas to have at least one AoE CC power available for the level 24 respec, rather than having the 3 it gets unlocked for consecutive power choices at 26, 28 and 30.

i completely disagree. Unless you want to move Mind Link later to compensate, which I certainly don’t.

[balor]

14 minutes ago, Booper said:

The taunt was turned into an auto in build 4,  refreshing every 1s. Are you seeing anything odd with the taunt between when the OM is summoned and when it is detonated? 

The taunt change is spot on and well done.  Tried it on a +3 x8 and pulled two groups adding in damage rotation before and while deployment of the Omega bomb and it taunt change worked like a charm.  It would still be great if you could get with your internal team tested for Solider and have them take a second look the power and it still could use some adjustments.  Besides that Booper you did your part on the fix to taunt. 👍

[WindDemon21]

40 minutes ago, Wiseguy said:

I agree with this. Fortunatas don't always need melee defense in the first place, and NWidow is easily capped to Melee defense from slotting. 2.% to all or 5% to AOE would be a huge improvement.

 

I'm not sure its a needed improvement, but it would definitely be cool.

 

edit: For reference, I basically only take Combat Training: defense later in the new Night Widow build for a free LOTG slot.

It's just really kinda wasted and makes zero sense given the two options between widow and fort being pretty much wasted defense. It doesn't make sense, I'd even take a lower 5% value to aoe versus the 7.5% melee if that's what's needed to justify it, or just the 3 positionals at 2.5% which also helps both builds. but being melee defense only is just extra dumb and should never have been the case.

 

The dumb thing is that even melee ATs still need ranged defense, often even more so than melee defense because at least in melee they can usually mitigate enemies with their melee attacks, so even on the widow it would still be more useful as a lower value to all 3 or as aoe defense instead.

 

While at it the inherent to Veats has always been pretty low especially given the extra leadership toggles always by far, wouldn't mind a bump in at least the recovery part of it even just a little bit to help offset that. My fully built crabbermind with as much end reduction as he could get slotted with tier 4 agility and the 10% global reduction from the support hybrid, and his end still struggles quite a bit due to all the leadership toggles (among everything else too) which just doesn't seem right.

Edited February 8 by WindDemon21

[csr]

21 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

i completely disagree. Unless you want to move Mind Link later to compensate, which I certainly don’t.

 

I don't understand why you think Mind Link would need to be moved later?  The only AoE mez in the Fortunata Teamwork set it could be swapped with is Aura of Confusion.  So not a good choice, IMO.  I suggested earlier swapping Scramble Thoughts and Total Domination in the Fortunata Training set.  That would put TD at level 18 and Scramble Thoughts at 26 so you could choose TD when you respec.  It would delay your ability to get Scramble Thoughts from 24 to 26.  Neither of these powers is actually available to pick while leveling, so it's only a 2 level difference, so not a huge deal in that regard.  It would however make build diversity better because Scramble Thoughts and Dominate are similar in what they can do.  There's nothing similar to TD that you can fit in the early part of the build right now.  Psionic Tornado is the best AoE CC available as an early build choice.

Edited February 8 by csr

[Random Robot]

On 11/22/2023 at 4:45 PM, The Curator said:

Alternate Animations Feature:

• Several powers from the base Arachnos Soldier kit now have alternate animations available in the power customization menu, to visually utilize the Bane Nullifier Mace, or Crab Spider backpack, IF the player has spec'd into the appropriate tree. For example, if a Bane spider chooses the Bane animation for Wide Area Web Grenade, it will use their mace weapon for the attack. However, if a Bane spider chooses the Crab animation for Wide Area Web Grenade, it will instead default to using the rifle animation. This feature has been extended to the following powers:
  • Burst - Now has Crab Longfang alt animation.
  • Wide Area Web Grenade - Now has Bane Grenade and Crab Grenade alt animations.
  • Heavy Burst - Now has Crab Longfang alt animation.
  • Venom Grenade - Now has Bane Grenade and Crab Grenade alt animations (still mutually exclusive to Crab Spider's Venom Grenade).
  • Frag Grenade - Now has Crab Grenade alt animation (still mutually exclusive to Crab Spider's Frag Grenade).

 

This is a fantastic change that will open up a lot of thematic flexibility. It would be nice if Bayonet could get an alternate Crab Spider animation too.

 

It's probably outside of the scope of this current patch but it would be great to see this extended to Mace Mastery for Crab Spiders and maybe even adding alternate animations to Brawl, Boxing and Kick to use your Crab Spider arms.

[balor]

22 minutes ago, Random Robot said:

 

This is a fantastic change that will open up a lot of thematic flexibility. It would be nice if Bayonet could get an alternate Crab Spider animation too.

 

It's probably outside of the scope of this current patch but it would be great to see this extended to Mace Mastery for Crab Spiders and maybe even adding alternate animations to Brawl, Boxing and Kick to use your Crab Spider arms.

I'm with you my friend but they answered that on the last page.  Maybe one day.... maybe

Edited February 8 by balor

[Random Robot]

4 minutes ago, balor said:

I'm with you my friend but they answered that on the last page.  Maybe one day.... maybe

ah, that's too bad. oh well, it's still a great change as is.

[MGoblin256]

One thing that would be a nice boon for Banes would be a boost to the poison DoT that comes with their melee mace attacks. It feels a little unfair how Widows/Night Widows' poison, in addition to doing damage, gets the added benefit of inflicting TWO debuffs on an enemy, while Bane Spiders get slightly higher damage out of their ticks but nothing else. Even adding one kind of debuff to it (preferably -Res) would go a long way in increasing the overall performance of Bane Spiders I feel.

[Wavicle]

2 minutes ago, MGoblin256 said:

One thing that would be a nice boon for Banes would be a boost to the poison DoT that comes with their melee mace attacks. It feels a little unfair how Widows/Night Widows' poison, in addition to doing damage, gets the added benefit of inflicting TWO debuffs on an enemy, while Bane Spiders get slightly higher damage out of their ticks but nothing else. Even adding one kind of debuff to it (preferably -Res) would go a long way in increasing the overall performance of Bane Spiders I feel.

 

Except Banes get two offensive debuffs already, Venom Grenade and Surveillance. Widows have none.

[MGoblin256]

53 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

 

Except Banes get two offensive debuffs already, Venom Grenade and Surveillance. Widows have none.

Still wouldn't be a bad buff. Either that, or increase the chance for the Disorient to proc.

[KaizenSoze]

After playing on beta quite a bit here are my current ranking. Excluding Crabs, because I don't play them.

 

Overall DPS:

1. Melee Fort
2. Bane
3. Night Widow - would be better if they could control runners

Single target:

1. Bane
2. Night Widow
3. Fort

Durability:

1. Night Widow
2. Fort
3. Bane - it's all about not having any DDR

[Major_Decoy]

8 hours ago, KaizenSoze said:

Durability:

1. Night Widow
2. Fort
3. Bane - it's all about not having any DDR

I don't think East Germany would really do anything to improve Bane Spiders.

[Gulbasaur]

On 2/11/2024 at 9:20 AM, Major_Decoy said:

I don't think East Germany would really do anything to improve Bane Spiders.

Don't be silly. They're clearly talking about Dance Dance Revolution.

[Hitback]

Could we please get Fury claws as a claws option for Widows? 🙏

[ScarySai]

Bane blasts still need more power behind them. It's very hard to justify any of them short of poison ray with how tight bane builds are.

 

Also, you still need to buff fort psinado, can't make a fuss about consistency but leave that one as is. It's a terrible power, that's why the other versions got buffed.

Edited February 14 by ScarySai

[KaizenSoze]

5 hours ago, Hitback said:

Could we please get Fury claws as a claws option for Widows? 🙏

I would be happy if they would fix Follow Up claws first. 🙂

[Sovera]

3 hours ago, KaizenSoze said:

I would be happy if they would fix Follow Up claws first. 🙂

 

It's broken?

[balor]

6 hours ago, ScarySai said:

Bane blasts still need more power behind them. It's very hard to justify any of them short of poison ray with how tight bane builds are.

 

Also, you still need to buff fort psinado, can't make a fuss about consistency but leave that one as is. It's a terrible power, that's why the other versions got buffed.

I don't think they are going to change anything here. Several of us have given feedback but I think they were locked in at the release of the test build cycle.  They have to many thing rolling at once for a volunteer team.  It is awesome that they are working on CoX homecoming but they are doing that on top of their normal jobs and regular life. It is very different than thinking of homecoming as a studio making a profit where they pay people to completely focus on the game. That honestly was my mistake on spending the time to do testing and feedback. 

 

I do agree with you that the Bane mace powers do not synergize currently with a balance of either damage or a focus on support/control.  I understand the problem of power creep but the choices should by grey and not a clear bad or auto include. I do hope in the future the homecoming team slows down when reviewing a specs/classes/archetypes vs just good enough patching them.  

 

As frustrating as it might be we at least have good team of volunteers keeping the game going with boot straps and bubble gum.  At least we know these guys are just overworked and not just a heartless corporation.   

[ScarySai]

Perhaps, but they've had ample time to address it. The volunteer excuse can only be stretched so much.

 

Psinado is a simple fix, at the least. Could easily push a consistency pass to it next build and it's done.

 

If they aren't changing it because they perceive forts as "fine", its stupid.

Edited February 14 by ScarySai

[KaizenSoze]

1 hour ago, Sovera said:

 

It's broken?

You cannot customize it. It will always use the "rod" style claws. Admitted I have not checked careful since page 5.

[balor]

I agree, the selective adjust path or the low hanging fruit method they took here is not that ideal.  There was a good amount of time and honestly there is no rush on any of these changes at this point.  There is no money on the line or real deadlines with CoX Homecoming.  

 

On the other side we don't have any investment here beyond the joy we get out of the game and the fact we are nerds and like talking about games.  I saw a joke about end of life regrets of a man on his death bed surrounded by his family.  He said something to the line of "I should have argued more about X edition rules off DnD was better than Y edition."  This hits close to home for many of use spending way to much time on thinking of ways to resolve issues in our hobbies that are outside our control.  If this has come to the point of causing you frustration it is time to walk away.  Because your time is more valuable than giving it away to others.  Spend it with friends or loved ones or jumping in game and taking on some foes. It comes down to what you can control and in this case it feels like a closed system so lets go do something else. Are your insights invalid, absolutely not but don't give others your most valuable resource if they don't want your gift of time.  But that is up to you on how you spend your time and know that I do agree with you.   

[KaizenSoze]

It would be great if all VEATs were up to the awesomeness that are Fortunatas.

 

At this time, I am basically content with the changes for this pass. There is a constant problem during beta, there are no teams. Almost everyone is soloing, most of the time. This tends to skew my thinking a bit. Oh, I can't solo 4x8 these changes aren't enough. Once, the changes hit live and folks can test them out in a full team setting. I think my opinions will change about some aspects.

 

My Bane builds can comfortably solo 4x6, they could solo 4x8 if they had any DDR.  I don't understand the comments about a lack of synergy. At least solo, WAWG, Venom, Frag/MBB, placate, and Crowd Control work very well together.

 

Night Widows do have a problem with runners, which can only be partially fixed Epic immobilizes. In a team environment this isn't an issue. I have made some suggestions about unresistable slows and making Eviscerate more effective. Builds can solo 4x8 anything unless there is a lot of bad luck with -defense.

 

Fort, the rich got richer. That last change to Fate Sealed made it worth taking even on melee Fort. 100% KU or KB! Thank you very much. Long stunning Scrambled Thought, thank you again. The other animation/cast times are just icing. 

 

[kelika2]

Is it too late to ask for Bane Spider Armor Upgrade to accept healing enhancements?

[SaxyGuitar]

On 2/10/2024 at 6:29 PM, KaizenSoze said:

Durability:

1. Night Widow
2. Fort
3. Bane - it's all about not having any DDR

 

This is true. My Banes biggest down fall is survivability. Mostly from no DDR but if I remember right just looking at there base unenhanced survivability numbers between them its big. Most of that is mind link, but they still have more defense overall then a Bane.

 

I can fix that defense difference with IOs and that might be my cost for good debuffs. But that ddr still gets me killed more.