Focused Feedback: Various Power Updates

[SwitchFade]

19 hours ago, WindDemon21 said:

Wait.. so you made this power even WORSE!??? This power is already over twice as weak than it should be for it's cast time/damage. Please just fix the power if you're doing this as well, shaving off the first 2 hits which are entirely unnecessary and are just the same animation as one of the tier 1/2 powers anyway and the only cool parts are the last 2 hits. That would take it's cast time from 2.43s to 1.43s, and then would up the recharge to 10 seconds per the fixed damage/cast time.

 

While at it please fix impale too to the 1.43s version that dominators already have. 2.43s on this remains utter crap. (same with frozen fists and greater ice sword which should clearly be the .83s one punch "frost punch" instead of frozen fists, and the original 1.83s ice slash instead of the terrible slow/low damage it has now, then ice melee would be perfect as well)

Gonna have to agree on this one, making it cost more is unnecessary 

Edited February 6, 2024 by SwitchFade

[Luminara]

5 hours ago, SwitchFade said:

Adding 2 seconds to vengeful recharge does not make sense.

 

The endurance cost was changed, not the recharge time...

[SwitchFade]

4 hours ago, Luminara said:

 

The endurance cost was changed, not the recharge time...

Oops, misread, my mistake

[WindDemon21]

Forgot to mention for vengeful slice the 2s increased recharge was to also give the power a comparative bump in damage as well. Even with the shaved off cast time the power is still a little weak since it should be the sets main single target "big" hitter. The extra 2s recharge would line it up to have a 25% damage boost as well so it fits that role better (and also would justify more the new end cost as well)

 

Seriously this power is SO bad it often (even knowing that you basically always just skip it) still keeps me from playing dual blades.

[arcane]

Dual Blades has enough high DPA attacks. It doesn’t need help.

[Enamel_32]

Regarding Frostwork:

So the power loses what makes it unique and becomes slightly weaker (no increase in regeneration), so that characters at or near the Max HP cap can benefit from it?

1. Outside of using incarnate powers, how often does this actually come up?
2. Is it possible to "overflow" any would-be wasted +Max HP into +Absorb or otherwise make it more broadly useful while remaining weird/unique?

[Colludium]

I am sad to see the rollback on Frostwork. I play Cold a lot for some time now. I don't take Frostwork because its not useful in my mind. With its max HP buff I never saw it doing anything and specc'd out long ago.
With the Absorb buff I can see it working and was really excited by that change. I had a planned build to spec into once it rolled out. As someone who actually plays the set, too bad.

[ScarySai]

Max hp on frostwork is better than absorb for a variety of reasons. Glad that one got rolled back, cold's been getting whipped this patch (still the best, though.)

[twozerofoxtrot]

 

On 2/1/2024 at 11:48 PM, The Curator said:

• Dark Miasma > Shadow Fall: Now only affects teammates and leaguemates.
• Storm Summoning > Steamy Mist: Now only affects teammates and leaguemates.
• Cold Domination > Arctic Fog: Now only affects teammates and leaguemates.

 

Really happy to see this change, a great QoL fix for those of use who don't want to be affected unnecessarily.

 

4 hours ago, ScarySai said:

Max hp on frostwork is better than absorb for a variety of reasons.

 

You should list them! That would help better educate people on your stance and potentially convince others who are observing your post on the merits of the change back.

Personally don't care about the changes to Frostwork either way but I am interested in useful discourse on the forums.

[ScarySai]

6 hours ago, twozerofoxtrot said:

Personally don't care about the changes to Frostwork either way but I am interested in useful discourse on the forums.

Monos already did that, no need to repeat.

[WindDemon21]

23 hours ago, arcane said:

Dual Blades has enough high DPA attacks. It doesn’t need help.

Not really, It has ablative strike, the rest are pretty on par with every other set, and even those are comparative to big hitters that some have as well. I'm not even at all saying to make it SO good, the problem is it's just such absolute TRASH as is. I'm talking about just making it WORTH taking. Even with my suggestion of fixing the cast time and bumping it up to 10s rech with proper damage for that rech bump, the set still lacks a big heavy hitting ST that lots of other sets have. Seriously, current vengeful slice is AWFUL. It's literally the worst DPA ST melee attack in any melee primary/secondary besides parry/divine avalanche which those are worse for obvious reasons (they also should get a little bump of a cast reduction from 1.33 to 1s)

 

Really though, even frozen fists does more DPA, and this is supposed to be the sets "big" single target attack, its just atrocious. Even hemorrhage and impale beat it. You are severely mistaken on this. The suggestion to remove the first 1s of the 2 hits would still have it below dpa for the rest of the ST attacks in the set. Which still doesn't make sense since generally the longer recharge "bigger" hitting attacks should have higher dpa to counter the concurrent dps. So that 25% boost, would still be warranted per the power function itself as well and within the set. This power needs fixed hands down no question. Even just reducing the cast time would be worth it/needed compared to what it is now. Just super extra dumb with those first 2 hits that are unnecessary, slow, and just terrible making it pretty much the worst ST melee primary/secondary attack in the game.

Edited February 7, 2024 by WindDemon21

[User]

As someone whose very first controller in issue 1 was mind/ and who really keeps wanting to like it, the TK change is just a disappointment. Turning the levitate bug into a feature is neat, but just like TK itself it's just a gimmick. Even if it were up every spawn and a reliable way to set up containment and not get alphaed doing so it probably wouldn't be enough of a reason to play mind/ controller for any reason other than extreme devotion to concept. Is there a plan to give mind/ a pass at some point? It's arguably the worst of all the controller sets and an auto-hit hold was pretty much the only thing it did that some other set doesn't do better. Including mass confusion, which is and has been a real kick in the teeth.

Edited February 7, 2024 by User

[arcane]

1 minute ago, User said:

As someone whose very first controller in issue 1 was mind/ and who really keeps wanting to like it, the TK change is just a disappointment. Turning the levitate bug into a feature is neat, but just like TK itself it's just a gimmick. Is there a plan to give mind/ a pass at some point? It's arguably the worst of all the controller sets and an auto-hit hold was pretty much the only thing it did that some other set doesn't do better. Including mass confusion, which is and has been a real kick in the teeth.

Mass Confusion is pretty easily the best Control set T9 ability.

[Catalyze]

This is a post for Developers. If I could post to them directly, I would. If I could post on a non reply forum, I would but that is not available to me.

Game Patch changes should fall into 1 of 3 categories:                                                                                                                 

A. Increasing Game Play Fun for players                                                                                                                                      

 B. Quality of Life improvements for players                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       

 C. Repairing game behavior causing player problems

 

If Developers make changes/additions to the game that don’t meet any of the above, they should consider why they are being done:                                                                                                                                                   1. The Developer wants the change and since they run the Circus, it will be done                                                                                                 

2. The Developer feels pressure from aggressive/high count forum posters, it will be done                                                                 

3. The Developer wants to put something into the game that is Shiny and will be noticed                           

 

I played this game in 04 and 05. I came back to it about 2 ½ years ago and the changes were staggering. Other than the graphics, most of it had changed. I don’t know what was done on Live and what was done on Homecoming but the changes were Wonderful. Quality of Life is so improved that it is amazing. I didn’t experience the “over time” changes, just the Then and Now.

I have read every line of the patch notes and see several proposed ideas rolled back or modified. This patch seems to be continuing the Uniformity in All Powers approach. Pool names unified (quality of life) and power types “templated” for uniformity (quality of life? My Circus?), new power sets (Game Play Fun), and damage increase procs canceled by combat (nonsense but it’s Your Circus).

Developers have presented new powersets this round. Shiny new sets for the existing players and New Influx of players. A lot of effort for Gameplay Fun. A bit ago, Battle Axe was reworked from what it was into a fantastic powerset. The visuals are spot on and the play is very smooth (single target and aoe). A recent forum poll by Scrappers showed it to be the most preferred attack set. Well done lads! This round, I see mostly tweaks and templating to powers that exist. No Battle Axe magic. Instead of Shiny, why not rework the power sets that are sitting in the attic? The unpopular kid that eats lunch alone. Example: Kinetic Melee. The forums and Help Channel will debate this power set endlessly. It has a gimmick mechanic that you either don’t use (Stalkers are spared from even getting it) since it takes a long activation (and if it misses you could have used 2 – 3 other attacks instead) or you use and hope it a. hits and b. hits often enough to matter. Fix it like you did Battle Axe. Make it a show piece of your ingenuity. Shiny is harder and eats time. Existing Mending is easier and faster. Enough with the shiny new I Phone to add to power set bloat. Fix what you have and make it into Battle Axe type of magic.

And to those already pounding replies, I have donated into every monthly finance event since coming back. I don’t intend to leave any time soon.

[User]

18 minutes ago, arcane said:

Mass Confusion is pretty easily the best Control set T9 ability.

Too bad it's also pretty easily worse than Seeds of Confusion.

 

Not to mention that's not even true, plenty of the T9 pets are better, because among other things they're actually up every pull.

Edited February 7, 2024 by User

[arcane]

Just now, User said:

Too bad it's also pretty easily worse than Seeds.

Honestly Seeds needs to be nerfed. Any ability that is so overpowered that it’s convincing people Mass Confusion is bad… can die in a fire. And they put it in the same set as Carrion Creepers. Everything sucks if you’re naive enough to make Plant Control your baseline.

[User]

9 minutes ago, arcane said:

Honestly Seeds needs to be nerfed. Any ability that is so overpowered that it’s convincing people Mass Confusion is bad… can die in a fire. And they put it in the same set as Carrion Creepers. Everything sucks if you’re naive enough to make Plant Control your baseline.

This kind of mind is fine special snowflaking literally goes back to Issue 1 too. I didn't understand it then and I don't understand it now. I guess it's like the Beanbag shot thing, some people just like playing a bad powerset because it makes them feel unique?

 

Objectively speaking though mind/ is in the worst place of any control set on controllers, which is why you only see it as a gimmick, if you see it at all.

Edited February 7, 2024 by User

[WindDemon21]

2 hours ago, arcane said:

Mass Confusion is pretty easily the best Control set T9 ability.

You can't really say that since literally all others get a pet. An aoe confuse versus pet aren't anywhere near the same power types, so to that I'd just say seeds does it much better. Also on a 4 minute timer and accuracy penalty while the confuse is good it's not a "GREAT" control. It's middle of the road.

[WindDemon21]

1 hour ago, Seed22 said:

Lol. Thinking Mass Conf is good. Lmao. Lolol. It would be good if the recharge were better

Exactly, aoe holds also need to have a recharge reduction, and no mez should have an accuracy penalty either, that's just insult to injury especially with nukes out there that just kill the spawn and have an inherent accuracy BONUS. But really aoe holds should have at least even accuracy and a 120s timer, same with mass confusion. If they'd fix those then mind would be in a much better spot. (and make confuse cause containment)

 

While at it also has always seemed arbitrary since the pet nerf to only have one set at a time to still have the 4 minute timer. Should be 60s so we can replace them more as needed or use as cannon fodder for the alpha. Sing is big one that comes to mind too. Should really have their recharge at 60s. Either it'll be a good QoL improvement for some combos, or wont' make any difference at all to others. Either way it's not going to OP anything and should still be done, same with epic pets, 16 minute rech is kinda ridiculous especially on ATs that can't really help them survive like scrappers. THOSE should be at 4 mintues recharge.

[c0]

On 1/30/2024 at 8:23 AM, Player-1 said:

Hello c0,

 

What do you have slotted in remote bomb, and what level enemy were you fighting?

Remote Bomb had 2-piece Obliteration slotted (dam + dam/rech). Was fighting the white-con new Vanguard training dummy at RWZ.  Targeting Drone was active.

[WindDemon21]

5 minutes ago, c0 said:

Remote Bomb had 2-piece Obliteration slotted (dam + dam/rech). Was fighting the white-con new Vanguard training dummy at RWZ.  Targeting Drone was active.

Remote bomb is a pseudopet, no pseudopets inherent player stats/bonuses. Only temporary buffs that are active on them at the time of casting do and only for about 2-3 seconds.

[c0]

(Build 4)

Incarnate damage proc interfaces trigger on placing remote bomb, aggroing enemies from stealth.

 

 

Hit roll vs Lv 51 elite boss (red con, AE, minimal enemy powerset).  Trip mine has higher hit roll than Remote Bomb despite no acc enhances.  Are these different "types" of pseudopets?

 

 

Right clicking Remote Bomb and selecting Detailed Info shows the info for Remote Trigger, which is missing useful damage/activation stat information.

 

 

Personal opinion: Remote Bomb on Blaster seems difficult to justify in any non-solo/roleplaying build.  At naive enhanced levels the damage is only slightly higher than Trip Mine, at a staggering 6-minute cooldown, weaker accuracy rate, and 2.983sec measured activation time.  This power would appeal to me with either a dramatic cooldown reduction, or changing the power from touch activated to a "thrown" device that latches onto the target at range (however, this may also result in an undesirable change to allowed enhancement set types).

 

[Uun]

I haven't tested Remote Bomb, however, the way Mastermind/Traps/Detonator has always worked is it ignores any damage, accuracy, IO sets, etc.  slotted in the power and looks to the slotting of the henchman targeted. As a result, Detonator is just slotted with recharge. I wonder if Remote Bomb is doing something similar.

 

Actually, it looks like Detonator is no longer working the way it used to. It is now affected by enhancements in the power.

Edited February 9, 2024 by Uun
Further testing

[Reiska]

On 2/7/2024 at 11:47 AM, arcane said:

Honestly Seeds needs to be nerfed. Any ability that is so overpowered that it’s convincing people Mass Confusion is bad… can die in a fire. And they put it in the same set as Carrion Creepers. Everything sucks if you’re naive enough to make Plant Control your baseline.

 

On 2/7/2024 at 11:55 AM, User said:

This kind of mind is fine special snowflaking literally goes back to Issue 1 too. I didn't understand it then and I don't understand it now. I guess it's like the Beanbag shot thing, some people just like playing a bad powerset because it makes them feel unique?

 

Objectively speaking though mind/ is in the worst place of any control set on controllers, which is why you only see it as a gimmick, if you see it at all.

 

These are not mutually exclusive positions, it can be possible for both Plant Control to be overpowered and Mind Control to be underpowered.  I definitely remember Mind Control being considered as being pretty bad on live as far back as my memory of live goes (issue 4), and I also definitely remember Plant Control being considered to be the best control set basically from the moment it went live and people being surprised it didn't get nerfed when it got proliferated to Controller.

 

I assume people like playing Mind Control because to someone who doesn't know the game, it's the most obviously thematic controller primary.

[tricon]

IMHO today, you wouldn't do a version of mind control like that anymore. So many options what about a "Gang War" power that can copy a group or use some of the doppelganger code

to summon a copy of somebody from your team that would fight for ya. The powerset in 24 feels a bit bland these days.......