Focused Feedback: Giant Monster Balancing and Rewards

[The Curator]

Giant Monster Balancing Pass

• Giant Monsters have been given a comprehensive balance sweep to make them less trivial for groups in Homecoming's power environment.
• All outdoor Giant Monsters (excluding Lusca) have been granted additional maximum HP.
• General resistance adjustments.
• Increased magnitudes on Giant Monster's offensive Mez effects.
• Model size adjustments to certain Giant Monsters to be bigger and easier to see in groups.
• Most summon powers now summon an increased number of enemies or calculate based on the amount of participants fighting.
• Some Giant Monsters have been given additional powers, including telegraphed abilities and other mechanics. Some existing abilities have been re-tuned to provide this same value.

 

New Vanity Pets

Giant Monster Mini Pets & Unstable Aether

• The following Giant Monsters found in city zones now have a 10% chance of dropping an invention recipe of a miniature version of themselves. This chance is rolled individually per character who received credit and is tied to the same drop table as the Reward Merits.
  • Adamastor
  • Arachnos Flyer
  • Babbage
  • Caleb
  • Clockwork Paladin
  • Council Goliath War Walker
  • Deathsurge
  • Eochai
  • Ghost of Scrapyard
  • Jack In Irons
  • Jurassik
  • Kraken
  • Kronos Titan
  • Lusca
  • Sally
  • Seed of Hamidon (Seedling)
  • U'kon Gr'ai
• NOTE: Only the zone version of these giant monsters drop the pet invention recipes.
• These invention recipes are not bound and can be freely traded or sold on the Auction House once acquired.

 Which monster is your favorite? 

• Giant Monsters that drop Reward Merits now also drop up to three(1-3) Unstable Aether salvage (amount depends on the specific GM defeated).

 Unstable Aether 

• Unstable Aether is account bound and can only be transferred to other characters on the same account and cannot be stored in SG base bins; It can be held one-thousand (1,000) at a time.
• Unstable Aether can be converted at any BenevoLabs Hologram vendors into the following:
  • Trade ten(10) Unstable Aether for one(1) random Giant Monster mini pet invention recipe from any of the listed above.
  • Convert three(3) Unstable Aether into one(1) Prismatic Aether.

 

P2W Vendor:

• Added six new non-combat vanity pets to the P2W vendor offerings, standard pricing:
  • Pet: Arachnos Drone
  • Pet: Camera Drone (Arena spectator model)
  • Pet: Police Drone
  • Pet: Praetorian Battle Orb
  • Pet: Rikti Drone
  • Pet: Mystic Lantern

 

Hamidon Bud:

• Hamidon Bud pet invention recipe has been added as a 0.4% chance drop from each Hamidon Mitochondria & Hamidon Bud enemy defeated from Hamidon raids.
• This drop chance is calculated individually per qualifying player, per defeat.
  • NOTE: The mission versions found in the Lady Grey's Task Force do not drop the recipe.
  • This mini pet recipe is not bound and can be freely traded or sold on the Auction House once acquired.

[Glacier Peak]

On 11/22/2023 at 9:49 AM, The Curator said:

Hamidon Bud pet invention recipe has been added as a 0.4% chance drop from each Hamidon Mitochondria & Hamidon Bud enemy defeated from Hamidon raids.

Can any devs confirm that this drop occurs? Without the instant kill dev command on beta, it's going to be a slim chance to confirm by play testing.

 

Thanks!

[tidge]

On 11/22/2023 at 11:49 AM, The Curator said:

Giant Monster Balancing Pass

• Giant Monsters have been given a comprehensive balance sweep to make them less trivial for groups in Homecoming's power environment.
• All outdoor Giant Monsters (excluding Lusca) have been granted additional maximum HP.
• General resistance adjustments.
• Increased magnitudes on Giant Monster's offensive Mez effects.
• Model size adjustments to certain Giant Monsters to be bigger and easier to see in groups.
• Most summon powers now summon an increased number of enemies or calculate based on the amount of participants fighting.
• Some Giant Monsters have been given additional powers, including telegraphed abilities and other mechanics. Some existing abilities have been re-tuned to provide this same value.

 

As a regular Giant Monster Hunter, I'm in agreement that some buffs to GMs are called for. I'd have identified the following two items that move GMs towards the 'more trivial' end of the spectrum:

• The ToHit values by most of the open world GMs lead to most of their attacks missing.
• The HP scale of the GMs appeared to be based on the zone, so some GMs have fewer HP compared to others.

I'm not looking forward to "increased Mezz"... IIRC the Jack in Irons Terrorize is already pretty long, if that gets any longer I hope that he can't recast it! I'd feel the same about other mezz attacks... but if that is the direction we want to go, I guess I will adapt.

 

GM Resistance is already a bit of balancing act (for me) as there are some GMs that already resist my attacks... I can still defeat them but it takes longer. If the other GMs become more like those, that would seem to be balancing from my PoV, but time will tell (especially with the boost to MaxHP).

 

I'd appreciate a few of "concessions" to players, with respect to GMs:

• a temp power to ST immobilize
• a reduced amount of time between open-world respawns (four hours is pretty long, especially if we have to clean up a spawn)
• more self-cleaning of GMs when the GM is defeated... or more of an indication that the event has not reset.

The first point derives from Envenomed Daggers can (historically) overcome GM regeneration, but no temp power overcomes them running away.

 

The second and third points have been somewhat mitigated by having the associated spawns be level-less, but this doesn't always happen: Croatoan wanderers often spawn with zone-capped levels, Jurassik Rubble and grand-rubbles will be zone capped, Boomtown Babbage summons lower level minions that can con grey. Having to clean up is a reasonable, sometimes bitter pill to ask (some) players to swallow.

 

I suppose I had better connect with the launcher and go do some testing!

 

EDIT: Oh, thanks for the change to the Lusca Rewards too! That makes it much more worth investing time into fighting that GM!

Edited January 20 by tidge

[Blackbird71]

Do we really need another currency?  Especially if its one that converts directly to a currency we already have, and is used at the same vendor?  Why not just have these drop Prismatic Aether Particles instead?

 

(while we're at it, can we do something about the name of Prismaic Aether Particles?  "PAP" as an abbreviation just carries unpleasant connotations.)

[Cobalt Arachne]

6 minutes ago, Blackbird71 said:

Do we really need another currency?  Especially if its one that converts directly to a currency we already have, and is used at the same vendor?  Why not just have these drop Prismatic Aether Particles instead?

 

(while we're at it, can we do something about the name of Prismaic Aether Particles?  "PAP" as an abbreviation just carries unpleasant connotations.)

The new currency was added as "bad luck protection" so that it's not possible for a player who wants a pet recipe to fight many Giant Monsters without ever getting one.

 

For those who don't care about the pet recipes in any capacity, the conversion option was added so they can convert it to something else.

 

Also the name of the salvage was already shortened to "Prismatic Aether", it's in the Page 7 patch notes.

[Glacier Peak]

5 minutes ago, Blackbird71 said:

Do we really need another currency?  Especially if its one that converts directly to a currency we already have, and is used at the same vendor?  Why not just have these drop Prismatic Aether Particles instead?

 

(while we're at it, can we do something about the name of Prismaic Aether Particles?  "PAP" as an abbreviation just carries unpleasant connotations.)

 

To your first question, yes. To your second question, read the patch notes:

On 1/19/2024 at 10:07 AM, The Curator said:

Vanity Rewards - Aether Vendor Preview Images & Wave 4 [Focused Feedback: Aether Rewards]

• The name of the Prismatic Aether Particles salvage shortened down to Prismatic Aether.

[Glacier Peak]

On 11/22/2023 at 9:49 AM, The Curator said:

Hamidon Bud:

• Hamidon Bud pet invention recipe has been added as a 0.4% chance drop from each Hamidon Mitochondria & Hamidon Bud enemy defeated from Hamidon raids.
• This drop chance is calculated individually per qualifying player, per defeat.
  • NOTE: The mission versions found in the Lady Grey's Task Force do not drop the recipe.
  • This mini pet recipe is not bound and can be freely traded or sold on the Auction House once acquired.

 

I am unable to validate the drop rates for the Hamidon Bud recipe due to testing limitations on the beta server. I will trust the right folks on the Homecoming did the necessary testing to validate the drop chances.

Edited January 20 by Glacier Peak

[Starhammer]

So it's not a huge deal, but the Lusca mini pet is disappointing. Coming out of an airborne globe of water just doesn't feel right. I would have vastly preferred if it was a ground based puddle 😞 I can understand the choice, since the puddle is nonsensical if summoned by a flying character, but it just doesn't look right... it's like the globe of water just highlights that there's part of the body there's no art for, rather than hiding it.

Maybe literally splitting the difference would work better? A lower hemisphere of water, flat water fx on top, with Lusca rising from it, but set at a hover height low enough that if we're at ground level, all but the upper plane is hidden... then if we elevate, it floats upward and has the bottom half of the globe to maintain the illusion that Lusca isn't rising from nothing but a flat plane.

Ok, so aside from the Lusca thing, it would be lovely if we could set these pets to start fighting each other if another is nearby. No combat mechanics, just shooting and brawling with each other.

[Blackbird71]

On 1/20/2024 at 9:42 AM, Cobalt Arachne said:

The new currency was added as "bad luck protection" so that it's not possible for a player who wants a pet recipe to fight many Giant Monsters without ever getting one.

 

For those who don't care about the pet recipes in any capacity, the conversion option was added so they can convert it to something else.

 

 

That doesn't change the fact that it is Yet Another Currency, and an unnecessary one at that.  Instead of dropping 1-3 Unstable Aethers, of which 3 can convert to Prismatic Aether, why not just drop 1 Prismatic Aether and tweaking the drop rate slightly, and using Prismatic Aether to purchase these pets?  (I challenge the need for Prismatic Aether entirely, but as long as you have it, might as well expand its use a little rather then inventing Yet Another Currency)

 

 

Quote

 

Also the name of the salvage was already shortened to "Prismatic Aether", it's in the Page 7 patch notes.

 

 

It's good to know at least that HC finally listened on this one, so thanks for that.  These patch notes are very long and I'm afraid that tidbit got lost in the noise.

 

[Cobalt Arachne]

1 hour ago, Blackbird71 said:

why not just drop 1 Prismatic Aether and tweaking the drop rate slightly, and using Prismatic Aether to purchase these pets?

This would not work because it would mean that people who have amassed lots of Prismatic Aether in the past could simply buy hundreds of new pet recipes the moment the patch goes live instead of actually participating in defeating any of the newly re-tuned Giant Monsters.

The point is to promote the new content, if people who have amassed currency from the past doing other activities can simply buy-in to new rewards without participating in the new content, that defeats the purpose of the incentive.

[golstat2003]

2 hours ago, Cobalt Arachne said:

This would not work because it would mean that people who have amassed lots of Prismatic Aether in the past could simply buy hundreds of new pet recipes the moment the patch goes live instead of actually participating in defeating any of the newly re-tuned Giant Monsters.

The point is to promote the new content, if people who have amassed currency from the past doing other activities can simply buy-in to new rewards without participating in the new content, that defeats the purpose of the incentive.

 

While I can see this, I hope it doesn't become a regular thing in HC. One of the large things (of many) that turned me off Champions Online was the constant addition of multiple forms of currency from time to time. By the time I stopped playing that game fully a year ago, there were 23 different types of event and regular currency to keep track off. So much so they had to create a separate tab in the interface just for tracking all the currency types.

 

COH's interface isn't as clunky as CO's but I hope we don't get to the point of having so many different types of currencies introduced that need to be tracked that such a change needs to happen.

[Blackbird71]

4 hours ago, Cobalt Arachne said:

This would not work because it would mean that people who have amassed lots of Prismatic Aether in the past could simply buy hundreds of new pet recipes the moment the patch goes live instead of actually participating in defeating any of the newly re-tuned Giant Monsters.

The point is to promote the new content, if people who have amassed currency from the past doing other activities can simply buy-in to new rewards without participating in the new content, that defeats the purpose of the incentive.

 

So what?

I'm not saying that to be flippant, but I genuinely don't understand what it would harm if some can already purchase these pets.  If you want to encourage people to do content, make that content enjoyable.  Pushing them to do content through bribery will only make that content popular temporarily, until players have amassed lots of Unstable Aether.  And if you follow the same design for future content updates, you will have to keep making new currencies to encourage players to engage with each one.

[Cobalt Arachne]

15 minutes ago, Blackbird71 said:

So what?

As the designer, I spent the time creating the recipes, the mini pets models, and the drop system for the purpose of supporting the Giant Monster system and making it more rewarding for those who like fighting Giant Monsters, ending with it giving them a unique sourced drop they can market to other players.

 

If you can get these rewards by doing non-Giant Monster content, that throws the entire purpose of this feature out the window.
 

21 minutes ago, Blackbird71 said:

If you want to encourage people to do content, make that content enjoyable.

Giant Monsters are already one of the most popular activities in the game, despite the fact they reward very little for the relative time spent; So that doesn't really apply here.

[Blackbird71]

4 minutes ago, Cobalt Arachne said:

As the designer, I spent the time creating the recipes, the mini pets models, and the drop system for the purpose of supporting the Giant Monster system and making it more rewarding for those who like fighting Giant Monsters, ending with it giving them a unique sourced drop they can market to other players.

 

If you can get these rewards by doing non-Giant Monster content, that throws the entire purpose of this feature out the window.

 

No it doesn't.  People can still earn the pets by doing the Giant Monster content; that's the purpose of the feature as you stated.  Just because it could be earned through other means does not negate that it would still fill the intended role.

 

5 minutes ago, Cobalt Arachne said:

Giant Monsters are already one of the most popular activities in the game, despite the fact they reward very little for the relative time spent; So that doesn't really apply here.

 

If it's true that Giant Monsters are one of the most popular activities in the game (and I believe you that it is), then using a unique currency to encourage people to do it should be unnecessary, as people are already doing the content in significant numbers.  Therefore, by your own logic, using a pre-existing currency as a reward and avoiding currency bloat should not have a negative impact on Giant Monster activity, and players engaging in Giant Monster content would still receive an additional reward for doing so.

[GM Crumpet]

Please stay on topic and give focused feedback. A like or dislike of a particular feature is fine as a statement, arguing with the dev who created it isn't. 

[SaxyGuitar]

Other than just fighting the GMs and testing drop what are other things I can do to help test this?

 

But I do plan on putting a team together and see how it goes. I even ported over my MM that can solo some GMs and I'm looking forward to fail at it now. I do enjoy hunting monsters.

[ZorkNemesis]

Do these changes apply to event Giant Monsters like Winter Lord or Halloween Eochai/Jack?  I don't see them listed but I feel like they shouldn't be excluded, especially since I recall Winter Lord being exceptionally easy.

[Cobalt Arachne]

32 minutes ago, ZorkNemesis said:

Do these changes apply to event Giant Monsters like Winter Lord or Halloween Eochai/Jack?  I don't see them listed but I feel like they shouldn't be excluded, especially since I recall Winter Lord being exceptionally easy.

For balance changes, yes.

For pet recipes, no; Mostly because there is an existing pet that is basically a mini Winter Lord already.

[Oklahoman]

It was suggested I bring my comment from the main thread over here.

 

I don't think we should add another currency (Unstable Aether). In fact, I think we need to work towards reducing currencies. This is going to be another currency that sits in my inventory that I need to manage.

 

But that's just my 2 cents. I'll drop it now.

 

Edited January 22 by Oklahoman

[I Dream of Greeny]

First off, love the feature Arachne, can't wait to have them following me around!

 

I spent time testing out the overhauled GMs vs their current counterparts under the same conditions (two person team using a Therm and a Rad Def), and am happy to report most of the ones I've managed to find so far take 3-4 times longer to clear, while posing a greater challenge thanks to their individual changes.

 

Should mean that the days of two or three people coming in and clearing the gms in under a minute without people getting a chance to join should be over.

The size increase also helps immensely. I'm looking at you Kraken, literally.

 

The drop rate for the recipes seems okay, hasn't happened yet but it's just a matter of time. The new whatsits frags drop just fine.

 

Though admittedly leaving the recipes up to luck doesn't sound TOO bad either, assuming they can be listed in the AH without issue, like the old Tech Wing and Piston Boot recipes.

[Starhammer]

12 hours ago, GM Crumpet said:

Please stay on topic and give focused feedback. A like or dislike of a particular feature is fine as a statement, arguing with the dev who created it isn't. 

We should get the new currency for arguing with GMs... Also, where's the GM mini-Crum-pet?

In all seriousness, I like the mechanic for this particular new currency and it's drops. On it's own, I don't see it being problematic, especially since we can easily convert it into something we can just sell on the AH (I expect that price is gonna drop as fast as it did after Halloween 2022 though). That said, I believe Blackbird71's point is still relevant, and this can become a slippery slope where we eventually just get a new currency in every major update and it becomes some new plane of Inventory Management Hell. I'd just ask that be kept in mind as "undesirable" by many of us. I'd like to see new uses for old currencies be introduced from time to time, something to help us bleed off hordes of threads or whatever, besides just converting to super-insps and /ah.

Edited January 23 by Starhammer

[Ruin Mage]

15 hours ago, SaxyGuitar said:

Other than just fighting the GMs and testing drop what are other things I can do to help test this?

Basically just testing the GMs. Do they feel right, are the powers being funky, etc?

Finding any little weirdness with the mini-pets might also help.

[Dev Unitas]

I'd definitely encourage testing GMs where possible, both in groups and solo. Group feedback is more valuable currently, Closed Beta had solo testing fairly well covered, but more data is still a good thing 🙂

[Dev Unitas]

Regarding the currency conversation for a brief moment, I'll just reassure people that we on the team are very aware of the dangers of currency bloat, and while we see the value of currencies and want to make use of them where it makes sense, we are being thoughtful of that. We're not planning to inundate players with endless amounts of currencies, but we are intending to use them where and when it makes sense within our reward ecosystem. This was one of those such circumstances.

[Shin Magmus]

On 1/22/2024 at 11:32 AM, Blackbird71 said:

 

That doesn't change the fact that it is Yet Another Currency, and an unnecessary one at that.  Instead of dropping 1-3 Unstable Aethers, of which 3 can convert to Prismatic Aether, why not just drop 1 Prismatic Aether and tweaking the drop rate slightly, and using Prismatic Aether to purchase these pets?  (I challenge the need for Prismatic Aether entirely, but as long as you have it, might as well expand its use a little rather then inventing Yet Another Currency)

 

 

 

It's good to know at least that HC finally listened on this one, so thanks for that.  These patch notes are very long and I'm afraid that tidbit got lost in the noise.

 

 

I agree with basically all of this.  I'm strongly against another currency because this game has a lot of stuff that is daunting for new players despite being an "easy" game and the number of weird currencies is one of them.