Bad Habits

[Coyotedancer]

I duo/trio just often enough to need a Taunt... because there's always that *ONE GUY* in every group who's just convinced that your 'Troller or your Blaster must die. Even when he's got a Brute in his face. Or a Tank stabbing him in the spleen...

[ZemX]

10 minutes ago, Go0gleplex said:

I dunno. Given I play solo, taunt is pretty much very low on my priority list for powers. I think I have only one brute with it and I almost never use it.  Now...if in a team, yeah, Taunt is an essential. 

 

It's not.  I mean, I get it.  People casually say "need" here all the time when they just mean "really want" but this is a case of the latter.   Tankers (and to a slightly lesser extent Brutes) taunt whatever they touch.  Taunt, the power, makes it easier at range, is more reliable, and debuffs range for enemies, usually causing them to close the distance to you.  That's useful even solo.  Useful... but objectively not necessary.  It has to be looked at, like any build decision, in the context of the whole build.

[Snarky]

1 hour ago, ZemX said:

 

It's not.  I mean, I get it.  People casually say "need" here all the time when they just mean "really want" but this is a case of the latter.   Tankers (and to a slightly lesser extent Brutes) taunt whatever they touch.  Taunt, the power, makes it easier at range, is more reliable, and debuffs range for enemies, usually causing them to close the distance to you.  That's useful even solo.  Useful... but objectively not necessary.  It has to be looked at, like any build decision, in the context of the whole build.

[Go0gleplex]

Yes, tankers have an inherent aggro but it is limited to pretty much those in melee range. My original toon, Obsidiman, was an Inv/SS tank before the nerfs and I specialized being at the center of 20-30 mob dust ups. Taunt had to be spammed to keep the mobs at the fringes of that dog pile focused on me...just punching would let about half or more aggro on the squishies which is a failure as a Tank. With the now standard (nerfs) defense levels, it's pretty much suicide sinking in to more than ten mobs unless your healer is on the ball, but Taunt is still necessary to reign in the fringe mobs where the inherent aggro is weak to keep them off the squishies which is the whole point of being a Tank...in fact it was pretty much THE signature power of the Tank outside of the high defense. The reason Taunt has a range to it is also for the purpose of drawing the loose mob aggro back onto the Tank before they can reach the squishies...if the walking cuisinarts (scrappers) haven't shredded them by then. 

[Scarlet Shocker]

Speeding's always been a thing - it was common on Defiant before GR and Freedom launched. Mostly it started for the tedious hunts on things like Numina, where zoning and "Defeat X of Y" was a real bugbear but it got much worse towards sunset simply because people realised they could do 3 TFs in the time it usually takes to do 2 and that meant extra merits for their effort.

 

Personally I hate that. I enjoy the experience for its own sake and people who decide to grandstand annoy me. But of course the team lead does have the option of kicking the worst offenders, and players can decide to call it a day before the TF ends if it's just too horrid to persevere.

[Seed22]

18 hours ago, Water said:

I don't know how to word this without upsetting anyone/everyone or tempting some troublesome retort to my views in an attempt to nullify them. But it's like this....

 

....why join a team if you don't wish to play in one?

 

I have any number of characters who can solo TF's/SF's/Arcs etc and when I want to solo I won't play in a team. Contrary to that in this pretty easy game, we still have the 'glory seeker' - especially now with the large new influx due to our legitimacy. The glory seeker wishes to be on your team whilst not play as a team, even in a 'kill all'. They would rather away to the final objective as the rest of the team (up to 7 players) are transformed into the soloists' sweeping brush for 'those pesky required foes' thereby depriving our new influx from learning the game and its intricacies.

 

It only serves to show to a new player that once you you are fully slotted you can ignore your team mates and just take off to show off how 'GRAND' you are at the game with your 'ace' powers and enhancements.

 

STOP - solo the TF/SF if you want to, nobody cares and more power to you, but if you join a team play as a team.

 

 

 

Did you vocalize it as a Kill Most? All of these complaints can be solved by clarifying a few times that its a kill most. Most people will understand what that means.

 

If I dont see that, im speeding to the objective because well, the goal is to complete the mish so I figured thats what everyone wants, you know, to not spend a year and a day doing a 5 minute mission? 
 

I feel old gamers are whiney and bitchey about speed because something something game mechanics, and new players hate the old for not keeping up. 
 

I personally like KM TFs when I form my own, but I definitely can respect and understand the desire for speed. Plus, I feel I need to remind you all that some of these people are playing during a break at work so do keep in mind they’ll probably assume you mean speed unless you specify otherwise. 

[Seed22]

3 minutes ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

Speeding's always been a thing - it was common on Defiant before GR and Freedom launched. Mostly it started for the tedious hunts on things like Numina, where zoning and "Defeat X of Y" was a real bugbear but it got much worse towards sunset simply because people realised they could do 3 TFs in the time it usually takes to do 2 and that meant extra merits for their effort.

 

Personally I hate that. I enjoy the experience for its own sake and people who decide to grandstand annoy me. But of course the team lead does have the option of kicking the worst offenders, and players can decide to call it a day before the TF ends if it's just too horrid to persevere.

I dont think a lot of people are grand standing as much as I wanna get this shit done as fast as possible because I’m either at work and on break or just have other things in life coming up or that I want to do soon.

[Seed22]

1 hour ago, ZemX said:

 

It's not.  I mean, I get it.  People casually say "need" here all the time when they just mean "really want" but this is a case of the latter.   Tankers (and to a slightly lesser extent Brutes) taunt whatever they touch.  Taunt, the power, makes it easier at range, is more reliable, and debuffs range for enemies, usually causing them to close the distance to you.  That's useful even solo.  Useful... but objectively not necessary.  It has to be looked at, like any build decision, in the context of the whole build.

I’ll give you 30 mil and a D-sync if you can get a tauntless tank into HM and tell me you dont need taunt. 100mil if you somehow get into the aeon vanguard fight with a tauntless tank. Im not kidding.

Edited January 24 by Seed22

[Shenanigunner]

I think the Star should politely inform the team, at the start of the mission, to "play as a team or get kicked." Then kick the soloists. I know that causes other issues, but if we can promote and use this practice, maybe it will filter out to the dumbshites.

 

The other alternative is to DM the idiots and tell them if they want the high return of teaming but don't want to play as a team, look into bumping their level settings.

 

But, you know, Zathras, listen, nobody... we really need some kind of universal way to reach players with this info, and it doesn't exist.

[Seed22]

I also feel I need to clarify: STICKING TOGETHER IS NOT THE ONLY WAY TO PLAY AS A TEAM.

 

sometimes it can mean the stalker going off to grab the mish objective, or someone going off to kill a boss. Teamwork comes in many shapes and sizes. 
 

What you all MEAN to say is: I would like it if we stuck together and cleared like a KM

[Scarlet Shocker]

13 minutes ago, Seed22 said:

I dont think a lot of people are grand standing as much as I wanna get this shit done as fast as possible because I’m either at work and on break or just have other things in life coming up or that I want to do soon.

 

Perhaps. I also think a lot of it is "get this done move on to the next ASAP" - which sometimes diminishes the game IMO. Personally I find that I enjoy games much more if the team coordinates together and works as a team. It feels more like an accomplishment

[Skyhawke]

2 minutes ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

 

Perhaps. I also think a lot of it is "get this done move on to the next ASAP" - which sometimes diminishes the game IMO. Personally I find that I enjoy games much more if the team coordinates together and works as a team. It feels more like an accomplishment

 

I have a friend that plays the "must speed from objective to objective" way...drives me bonkers. It's why I shy from any speed run advertised anything. 

Edited January 24 by Skyhawke

[Seed22]

Just now, Scarlet Shocker said:

 

Perhaps. I also think a lot of it is "get this done move on to the next ASAP" - which sometimes diminishes the game IMO. Personally I find that I enjoy games much more if the team coordinates together and works as a team. It feels more like an accomplishment

Try Hard Mode. Sticking together isnt really any kind of coordination other than room temperature IQ strategy(which isnt to say people employing it are dumb, it just is a basic survival strategy harking to our early days as humans) 

 

You wanna actually have to coordinate. Do a HM. No joke that requires actual brain cells, not much unless you’re the lead, but still. 

[Ironblade]

18 hours ago, Water said:

I don't know how to word this without upsetting anyone/everyone or tempting some troublesome retort to my views in an attempt to nullify them. But it's like this....

 

....why join a team if you don't wish to play in one?

 

Sometimes, the answer is "to confirm the KICK button works".

Most of the time, if someone wants to 'do their own thing', it's not a big deal.  But if I have made clear EXACTLY how we're doing some task force and someone goes off on their own completely ignoring instructions - I will warn them and then kick them.

[Go0gleplex]

Exactly. Coordinate. Communicate. Take a couple seconds before blasting into a tough fight to get everyone lined out about who's expected to do what. Things go a helluva lot smoother in my experience. (and not just in CoH/V) :) 

[ZemX]

48 minutes ago, Seed22 said:

I’ll give you 30 mil and a D-sync if you can get a tauntless tank into HM and tell me you dont need taunt. 100mil if you somehow get into the aeon vanguard fight with a tauntless tank. Im not kidding.

 

This is a thread about random PuG-mates running off to solo.  So no, the context here is not Hard Mode TFs.  Not following your goal post move.  

[Snarky]

24 minutes ago, Ironblade said:

 

Sometimes, the answer is "to confirm the KICK button works".

Most of the time, if someone wants to 'do their own thing', it's not a big deal.  But if I have made clear EXACTLY how we're doing some task force and someone goes off on their own completely ignoring instructions - I will warn them and then kick them.

I never kick. I honestly do not even know if you can kick from a TF

 

i have given instructions in posi 1.  Detailed. Long. Specific. Had them ignored

 

Now i just say “ do not go to city hall steps until we are all ready”.   That is regularly ignored 

 

Now i just follow the moron in.  It is great when they get on the steps without clearing anything around. Dragging mobs from last fight. And sometimes pulling everything from under the guy with one huge ball

 

i start spamming temp grenade powers and eating inspiration from email. 

[Oubliette_Red]

I take coffee with my cream and sugar.

 

[Seed22]

22 minutes ago, ZemX said:

 

This is a thread about random PuG-mates running off to solo.  So no, the context here is not Hard Mode TFs.  Not following your goal post move.  

No im not trying to move the goal post I dont really care if you think people thinking taunt is  needed is a bad PuG habit(if thats what you’re saying?), this was me just saying if you did HM, which also can be PuG’d btw, with a tauntless tank(if you could even convince someone to allow you to join with that) I will seriously give you 100mil if its a 4* vanguard fight.

 

Thats just curiosity really

Edited January 24 by Seed22

[Seed22]

4 minutes ago, Oubliette_Red said:

I take coffee with my cream and sugar.

 

Now I want coffee. Thanks Oub 😛

[ZemX]

1 minute ago, Seed22 said:

No im not trying to move the goal post I dont really care if you think people thinking taunt is  needed is a bad PuG habit(lmfao at that one), this was me just saying if you did HM, which also can be PuG’d btw, with a tauntless tank(if you could even convince someone to allow you to join with that) I will seriously give you 100mil if its a 4* vanguard fight.

 

Oh, in that case no thanks anyway.  All of my Tankers have Taunt and I rarely do Hard Modes.  But I know the crazies in the Master ITF channel on Excel are always looking for weird challenges.  Could ask them.

[Oubliette_Red]

3 minutes ago, Seed22 said:

Now I want coffee. Thanks Oub 😛

[ZemX]

1 hour ago, Go0gleplex said:

Yes, tankers have an inherent aggro but it is limited to pretty much those in melee range.

 

Gauntlet applies taunt to anything you hit with an attack whether that's melee or ranged.  But even so, melee range is wherever your Tanker is at the moment.  You don't need to stay put in one place.  That's why I mentioned lacking Taunt pretty much just means having to move around more to maintain threat.  

 

But this is probably now getting quite a bit off topic.  This is well-worn ground over on the Tanker forum if you are interested in hearing more about it.   Tanking a group of mobs up to the 17 target aggro limit is really no big deal in ordinary +4/x8 content.  @Seed22 is of course correct that Hard Modes are a different story.  They were designed to stress builds and teams that were already overpowered for normal content. 

[Captain Fabulous]

I won't ever waste a power slot on Taunt. It should be an inherent. If a bunch of critters wander off I target any bosses with a ranged attack and that usually gets them back to me.

[Andreah]

15 minutes ago, Captain Fabulous said:

I won't ever waste a power slot on Taunt. It should be an inherent. If a bunch of critters wander off I target any bosses with a ranged attack and that usually gets them back to me.

Well, I don't mind how anyone else plays their character (so long as they're not using Dimension Shift). That being said, [Taunt] will apply a 100% -Range debuff, and pull in snipers/marksmen/etc -- just hitting them with any old ranged attack won't. [Taunt] is a potent tactical tool; if a player would only be using it to "taunt" the enemies they're already hitting, I don't know what to say about that.

 

On topic, I don't see a lot of soloists doing this much. Occasionally, but it's not common in my experience. If the main team's buffs were keeping them going, then leaving to go off and do things will be a lesson in itself that I don't need to harp on. But if someone is obviously playing in a way that's making the content more difficult for the rest of the team, I might say something to them. And if they don't listen, there's always "One star" and the "Kick button".