Bad Habits

[Skyhawke]

Communication makes every point (well, maybe not cannibalism...well, maybe for a zombie MM) relevant. I've been on teams where right from the get go the team agrees on a certain playstyle and I've been on ones that have a quick chat and change tactics midstream. Citadel is a great example as after awhile, a team that's gelling really well will say "Divide and conquer?" and we roll with that. I've also seen the teams where no communication and it becomes Keystone Cops really quickly. I find a polite way to excuse myself from those. Just a quick "Hey, mind if I stealth to the objective?" works wonders...like using your signal light in traffic. Sure, you know you can make that merge, but does everyone else? How many middle fingers can be avoided by just using your signal? Same here. Just a quick bit of communication goes a long way. 

[ZemX]

2 hours ago, Mopery said:

If you boot said player, you will be called a poor leader and then panned in General chat for it.

 

Does this actually happen?  I wouldn't know because 99% of the time I have hidden General Chat.  I know I don't ever see people being dragged in LFG for sticking to their guns about a "kill most".   Someone crying about being kicked after acting like a spoiled asshole on a team isn't getting any sympathy there.

 

I'd say if someone is speeding on a declared "kill most" you warn them, then you kick them if they ignore the warning, then you add a note reminding yourself never to invite that person again to one of your teams.  I'd even call that a "win".

[Ironblade]

4 hours ago, Mopery said:

If you call out said player, you will be called a poor leader.

If you don't call out said player, you will be called a poor leader.

If you boot said player, you will be called a poor leader and then panned in General chat for it.

If you don't boot said player, other players could quit the team.

If you do boot said player, other players could quit the team.

 

I care.  Everyone has their own image of a 'good leader' and so do I.  I do what I think a good leader should do.  If someone doesn't like it, big whoop.

If I get called a poor leader and panned in General chat, so what?  Anyone who knows me will recognize who's the idiot in the situation.  And, of the people who don't know me, probably 95% will recognize that the person badmouthing someone in chat is the idiot.

[Qinelenlea]

I've seen good leaders do fantastic by the group by offering help when can and doing what is necessary to ensure the group is successful, ie,. being of good cheer in a talkative by not being an overly chatty kathy, knowing what to do in missions and not completely lost like a newb, and not acting like a total douchebag by being a control freak by tossing players simply because they may not agree with one of the players.

 

In the past, I've been booted from groups for "offering a beer" in chat (yeah, someone actually got bent over that), offering to seek an object while invis (ninja), getting defeated too many times - too many dies (Yeah I was booted from a farm because I wanted to increase the defeat value on a new brute I created and the leader took offense and booted), and other insane ways people can show in how thin their skins really are.

 

There is another similar topic about poor leaders that has me rather irritated; when I'm on my farmer and see someone posting for a needed task force or mission and asking for other players, only to get a "oh we filled up and don't need any extras at this time" after I have been told there is a secured spot and have jumped out of the farm and moved over to the other toon which doesn't take but a few moments (No I don't stop at any vending machines etc as this is not the sign of a good player to do when people are waiting).  Good leaders show their true ability to lead by being patient when needed and not jumping at every 'shiny" (another player that sent an PM while I'm transferring to the alt) player and is readily accessible for a quicker launch by a few seconds.

 

Bad leaders can be described in a number of ways and probably a good reason why a number of players find it hard to get groups because simply said; "We decent and good leaders and followers do not wish to tolerate your BS."

[Qinelenlea]

2 hours ago, ZemX said:

 

Does this actually happen?  I wouldn't know because 99% of the time I have hidden General Chat.  I know I don't ever see people being dragged in LFG for sticking to their guns about a "kill most".   Someone crying about being kicked after acting like a spoiled asshole on a team isn't getting any sympathy there.

 

I'd say if someone is speeding on a declared "kill most" you warn them, then you kick them if they ignore the warning, then you add a note reminding yourself never to invite that person again to one of your teams.  I'd even call that a "win".

Yes, I've seen players flame other players for getting booted because of their asshatery and being a total lugnut.  It shows their true colors as bad omens and I usually mute/ignore them because they are likely to try to cause damage to myself or friends in General chat or other app.  I agree with Ironblade's point of view in "so what" approach; however, I think there are additional ways of dealing with the miscreants.  Equally, this is a good indicator they are not good material for Super Groups, as I may not be a SG leader but I am on the council of one and have weight on who is accepted and passed for an invite.

Edited January 26 by Qinelenlea

[Captain Fabulous]

17 hours ago, Clave Dark 5 said:

who at their root, just want the rewards faster with less effort.

Yes, absolutely. When fully kitting out a single character costs 500+ million INF you need to maximize your time and effort. There's a reason it's called grinding. Hell, even a partial IO build (LoTGs, Steadfast and Gladiator +3% def, some procs, Numina/Miracle/Panacea/etc, Power Shifter) will cost over 100 million. How else do you generate that much INF in a timely manner? You're either going to grind TFs, grind farms, grind scanner missions, or grind out the same story arcs you've done 10000x before.

Now if kitting out with IOs is of no interest to you then you don't have to worry about any of this. And that's OK too.

[biostem]

It's all about communication.  You aren't going to get anywhere by trying to force people to play a certain way.  You can attempt to sway people over to your way of thinking, or you can be super selective about whom you invite and in what way said team will conduct themselves.  Good luck getting anywhere in either case.  Personally, I'll try to chime in and politely get people into a shared mindset, but beyond that, and if things get too bad, I'll either excuse myself from the team or kick the offender if they are too far out of line.

[Clave Dark 5]

27 minutes ago, Captain Fabulous said:

Yes, absolutely. When fully kitting out a single character costs 500+ million INF you need to maximize your time and effort. There's a reason it's called grinding. Hell, even a partial IO build (LoTGs, Steadfast and Gladiator +3% def, some procs, Numina/Miracle/Panacea/etc, Power Shifter) will cost over 100 million. How else do you generate that much INF in a timely manner? You're either going to grind TFs, grind farms, grind scanner missions, or grind out the same story arcs you've done 10000x before.

Now if kitting out with IOs is of no interest to you then you don't have to worry about any of this. And that's OK too.

I just play the game.  I started with IOs in my first toons (some of whom upon revisiting had empty slots still!) and kept playing them and building up the cash, MSRs, a purple drop or two, etc.  Grinding is for robots, I have fun and still do just fine.  I'm also not a min/maxer, so those things you list while fine aren't necessary - they're really not!  I'm currently running a Dom with Defense numbers in the low teens and having a blast.  I think this idea is getting way, waaaayy lost these days, that the grind is the "only" way to play, and the new arrivals are going to think this is the game now (which yeah is slippery slope thinking).

[Captain Fabulous]

18 minutes ago, Clave Dark 5 said:

that the grind is the "only" way to play,

Now I never said that. And honestly I'm like you. I don't do a lot of grinding. I play a lot of alts, drop in some IOs here and there as I can. I'm just saying that if you are into fully kitting out your characters you have to grind, there is no other option. Hell, the majority of players use SOs and/or common IOs. The grinding really is a small but vocal niche group.

[Clave Dark 5]

2 hours ago, Captain Fabulous said:

Now I never said that. ... I'm just saying that if you are into fully kitting out your characters you have to grind, there is no other option. Hell, the majority of players use SOs and/or common IOs. The grinding really is a small but vocal niche group.

No, you didn't, you're one hundred percent right: I was talking back to the urban legend/"received wisdom" that a lot of the player base (or at least forum base) appears to be laboring under "I must farm and grind to be able to play." 

 

To those folks let me say that I just spent a billion to pay @Etched to build my custom base (money well spent too, look him up!) and somehow managed to do that without grinding or running about with empty slots, while leveling up a new Dom.  It can be done! 

 

Give up the grinding folks, you have nothing to lose but your pains!

[Etched]

4 hours ago, Clave Dark 5 said:

To those folks let me say that I just spent a billion to pay @Etched to build my custom base (money well spent too, look him up!) and somehow managed to do that without grinding or running about with empty slots, while leveling up a new Dom.  It can be done! 

Heh, the other 800 million must have gotten lost in transit. However,  I have made bases that were in that range which is where I made a large portion of my inf. The other portion I made just by playin the game.

 

Now I'm fortunate cause I have the time to play for a couple hours each day and I make a good chunk of inf. But understand I don't alt the way others do. If I see that I lost interest in a toon I would strip and delete and keep my toon count below 30. I was told once that I have probably deleted more t4 50s than most people have. Therefore,  I am just reusing the same enhancements and not spendin 100s of millions kittin out the newest toon. That is just how I play.

 

@Clave Dark 5 you still owe me a pass code for your new base. Email me and I'll run through how to set it up.

 

@Etched

[Clave Dark 5]

2 hours ago, Etched said:

Heh, the other 800 million must have gotten lost in transit.

I uh, spent it on a numeracy class which my public schools in the south clearly skimped on!  Yeah, it was 100 million, I regret the error.  Point still stands however!

[Ironblade]

On 1/26/2024 at 1:43 PM, Qinelenlea said:

There is another similar topic about poor leaders that has me rather irritated; when I'm on my farmer and see someone posting for a needed task force or mission and asking for other players, only to get a "oh we filled up and don't need any extras at this time" after I have been told there is a secured spot and have jumped out of the farm and moved over to the other toon which doesn't take but a few moments

 

Yeah, that's crummy.  When someone asks to join my team but has to switch, I actually click their name in the tell so I can get their global so I can be sure I'm getting the right person after they switch.

[tidge]

I plead guilty to grabbing aggro from some other spawn, especially if the PUG has been advertised as a "Kill Most". Occasionally I get $#!+ about it, but I only do it if I know both I and the team can handle it. I will also branch off of large map mission where the objective is to "defeat all", again: if we can handle splitting the party. By "handling" I mean both being able to clear spawns quickly and survive spawns. I see little point in running off solo if the encountered mobs (by 'solo' or a 'pack' of players) aren't being defeated. Scattering mobiles can be a real time waster.

 

I grok that sometimes people aren't in the mood for this, and I make an effort to pay attention to PUGmates to see if they are exemplared down, have a lotta slots, etc. so as to not have them be overwhelmed. But FFS, a team of 8 level 50s on a Penny Yin can handle an extra spawn or two (or more).  I've never seen anyone run a Penny Yin with any actual limits on players, besides time and number of defeats. I've seen PY 'speed' runs that involved destroying doors in the police station, and 'kill most' that involved skipping all the Freaks on the way to Clamor!

 

Speeding to the end objective is a different beast. I'll only do this if the team lead has said that this is the way, and I am playing a character that can actually get to the end objective without aggroing the entire map. Otherwise I am perfectly happy to hang back and defeat spawns. When I lead PUG, I always announce I don't mind speed if that is anyone's jam. The Manticore TF for example has a few missions in which I think the whole team would have to be in a very particular head-space to want to clear all those maps.

[GM_GooglyMoogly]

Hid a few posts.

Edited January 29 by GM_GooglyMoogly

[nzer]

Something I find notably absent from this thread is acknowledgment that the vast majority of the game's content is extremely easy in pretty much any full team, regardless of composition or coordination. That's partly because the content just isn't that difficult to start with and partly because Homecoming specifically has a good amount of power creep compared to live.

 

So I would ask people to consider the possibility that the person rushing ahead to engage a new group isn't doing so because they're a moron, but rather because they'd like to be able to use more than two abilities before the pack is completely obliterated.

[lemming]

36 minutes ago, nzer said:

So I would ask people to consider the possibility that the person rushing ahead to engage a new group isn't doing so because they're a moron, but rather because they'd like to be able to use more than two abilities before the pack is completely obliterated.

If they can handle it, I don't have an issue.  If they go off and get themselves ganked, or worse, pull some other people in to also get ganked, that is the issue.

[eldriyth]

On 1/23/2024 at 5:41 PM, Water said:

I don't know how to word this without upsetting anyone/everyone or tempting some troublesome retort to my views in an attempt to nullify them. But it's like this....

 

....why join a team if you don't wish to play in one?

 

I have any number of characters who can solo TF's/SF's/Arcs etc and when I want to solo I won't play in a team. Contrary to that in this pretty easy game, we still have the 'glory seeker' - especially now with the large new influx due to our legitimacy. The glory seeker wishes to be on your team whilst not play as a team, even in a 'kill all'. They would rather away to the final objective as the rest of the team (up to 7 players) are transformed into the soloists' sweeping brush for 'those pesky required foes' thereby depriving our new influx from learning the game and its intricacies.

 

It only serves to show to a new player that once you you are fully slotted you can ignore your team mates and just take off to show off how 'GRAND' you are at the game with your 'ace' powers and enhancements.

 

STOP - solo the TF/SF if you want to, nobody cares and more power to you, but if you join a team play as a team.

 

 

 

You need to toss in some poker and craps tables, slot machines, and a brothel to go with those neon lights you enjoy so much.

 

Also, who are you to tell people how they should play the game?

[Water]

15 hours ago, eldriyth said:

You need to toss in some poker and craps tables, slot machines, and a brothel to go with those neon lights you enjoy so much.

 

Also, who are you to tell people how they should play the game?

 

The clue is in ' team' - the game tells everyone how to play the game. I say play how you want. If you want to solo then solo - if you want to team - then team. How hard can that be to understand?

[Seed22]

For people who think sticking together for everything is team work, make sure you specify that in your teams.

 

Also, consider that most of CoH pop is vets. Vets who have seen this or done that well over a thousand times on most likely SEVERAL 50s. They probably speed out of habit. Its become second nature to a lot of folks to get to the objective in a mish and it’s not always out of malice, or rather its VERY rarely out of malice to begin with.

 

Outside of HM runs, I almost never enforce a rule to stick together because I actually understand the above, exceptions being when we have a few exempted toons.

[Luminara]

Man... four pages and I still haven't seen any links to a movie about a convent of nuns who go Dirty Harry on the bad guys.

 

Or porn.

 

I'm not putting any of you in my will.

[tidge]

1 hour ago, Water said:

 

The clue is in ' team' - the game tells everyone how to play the game. I say play how you want. If you want to solo then solo - if you want to team - then team. How hard can that be to understand?

A couple of empirical truths about a lot of "x8" content:

 

1) it rarely needs 8 players to complete

2) 8 players can get in each other's way

 

There are reasons why this might not be obvious to a new player, or for a character with less than a full kit of enhancement slots... But players not huddling up on each other isn't a wrong play style for teams.

[Seed22]

5 hours ago, tidge said:

A couple of empirical truths about a lot of "x8" content:

 

1) it rarely needs 8 players to complete

2) 8 players can get in each other's way

 

There are reasons why this might not be obvious to a new player, or for a character with less than a full kit of enhancement slots... But players not huddling up on each other isn't a wrong play style for teams.

I’ve literally been saying this this whole thread and you’d swear its like trying to explain quantum physics to preschoolers apparently.

Edited January 31 by Seed22