What I wish Arsenal Control looked like

[Shin Magmus]

1 hour ago, Psi-bolt said:

 

I have played sets including Seismic Blast and wound up disappointed but ultimately still got them to 50 because I like the concept.  It just doesn't wind up being my "main" Blaster.  

 

Out of genuine curiosity, how often would you say you log onto your Seismic Blast character.  I get that they aren't your main.  I have over 20 lv50s that "I like" but only 2 or 3 I'd ever call my mains, and some of them go for weeks or months without play because I play this game in surges and take breaks.  But I've also permanently shelved lv50s that I don't really like, and stripped them of their IOs.  Does your Seismic Blast character fall into the "shelved" category or do you still like it enough to dust off from time to time?

 

This is just for anecdotal data.

[Indystruck]

15 hours ago, ShinMagmus said:

They don't let dissenting opinions into the Closed Beta BTW, so that's not even real advice.  

 

I dunno about that, I'm in there and I yell about shit all the time

[FupDup]

It's less that those opinions aren't allowed and more that they are not always/usually listened to. Sometimes it can give us stuff like Spirit Drain (a clear workaround to the devs' self-imposed epic pool power design formulas) but generally it doesn't amount to much. 

[Riverdusk]

3 hours ago, Maxzero said:

 

Funnily enough that /Storm can proc the Immobilize is actually really useful otherwise Tornado and LS will just make enemies run everywhere.

 

A Arsenal/Storm combo might actually work...kinda.

 

The turret would probably work better as a tank if it were shorter range. Be cool if it were a flamethrower like turret (maybe a Cryo version for theme?) instead of a boring old gun turret.

 

Give the turret water burst and water jet instead and rename it water cannon or something.  Now the set can have its own wet inducing power built in. 

[Psi-bolt]

1 hour ago, ShinMagmus said:

Out of genuine curiosity, how often would you say you log onto your Seismic Blast character.  I get that they aren't your main.  I have over 20 lv50s that "I like" but only 2 or 3 I'd ever call my mains, and some of them go for weeks or months without play because I play this game in surges and take breaks.  But I've also permanently shelved lv50s that I don't really like, and stripped them of their IOs.  Does your Seismic Blast character fall into the "shelved" category or do you still like it enough to dust off from time to time?

 

This is just for anecdotal data.

I log him in occasionally, maybe once a month.  I mean, I love the concept but the set just has problems that interfere with my play style.  I

mostly solo a few missions and log off.

 

[Shin Magmus]

1 hour ago, Riverdusk said:

 

Give the turret water burst and water jet instead and rename it water cannon or something.  Now the set can have its own wet inducing power built in. 

I AGREE WITH THIS FEEDBACK.

Wet Arse Control is a-go: send it.

[Cyclone Jack]

3 hours ago, ShinMagmus said:

Truth, which is why Storm Summoning as a set is commonly played on Controllers because they have AoE Immobs that make Storm work better.  It's basically a circle right: to not give this set an Immob, but then sneak in a conditional Immob that works specifically with the powerset that needs it... like a roundabout way of admitting what the core problem is across Controllers, and the secondary problem is specifically with Storm Summoning, then adding a band-aid so it doesn't come up.

 

A Band-aid solution is better than no solution... but why would my Natural Origin Gun Controller magically conjure a bout of Freezing Rain?

Well obviously, they are planning on making a Firefighter secondary for Controllers where you run around with the Large Extinguisher. 🤣

[FupDup]

1 hour ago, Riverdusk said:

 

Give the turret water burst and water jet instead and rename it water cannon or something.  Now the set can have its own wet inducing power built in. 

And it also fits the "riot control" theme too. Now you get to spray down protestors villains with water hoses!

[Cyclone Jack]

2 hours ago, JasperStone said:

Opinion.

You know what's not opinion?  No other powerset has a Tier 3 power with a 40s recharge.  Why?  Because both Cryptic and Paragon knew that's *Bad Design*. 

 

The fact that Smoke Grenade was a Tier 2 power in Beta 1, available at character creation, shows that this set was not fully thought through.  That means it went through Design, Implementation, and Closed Beta without *anyone* thinking about or testing it with a new character.  *Everyone* up to that point instant-leveled to 50, fully slotted the set, and then said "This is good."  Not a single person entered a Tutorial with Smoke Grenade as their first power, because they would have immediately known there was an issue.

[arcane]

I play the new HC sets all the time. Love them. The opinions that they’re trash are obviously just opinions. Can’t wait for the update to go live just so the tantrums will stop at this point.

[Rudra]

*SNIPPED*

Looking at this thread in itself: when content gets to the open beta, the devs are looking for fine tuning of what they made. They won't overhaul a set unless it really, really, really needs it.

 

Looking at the comments: I'm not seeing a wide variety of people involved in this thread, and of those I see, there are a surprising number of comments that look to be in agreement with the OP, but more seem focused on sleep effects themselves rather than the set.

 

Looking at my own response: I see statements saying they like the set. There is a good chance there are others that do too, especially if the set got through closed beta and development to get to open beta and fine tuning. Disregarding those comments because they don't line up is also disrespectful and cringe. (Also, please note when I actually joined this conversation. I haven't tried the set so I have no opinion on it. However, the fact it got as far as it did tells me something.)

Edited February 4 by GM_GooglyMoogly

[JasperStone]

I recently chose to become more involved in the Forums.

 

Especially after Storm Blast came out and terrible things that were said by some players.

The rage-filled rants.

Meanwhile, I am playing the set thinking ... huh ... this is pretty good. Different, but good.

 

Just because a set is not how YOU want it to be doesn't mean it is awful.

 

[arcane]

Patch/Update season is always an ugly time of year. Every time the devs release changes, people that like those changes are called trolls. This is nothing new, but that doesn’t make it any less unpleasant.

[GM_GooglyMoogly]

[Super Atom]

@Lockely

 

It's wild how quickly you got proven correct

 

💀

[Rudra]

Here is the thing about this thread and anything players want changed:

 

This thread is all about how the author would have made the set different followed by a request for feedback on what the author created. (Which is why this was moved to the Suggestions and Feedback forum instead of staying where it was. It doesn't address the set as is and may or may not need to be done and why, just what the author wants instead.)

 

The author spends a lot of time on this thread being disparaging about the set. 'Arse this', 'arse that', 'wet, smelly arse'. That is a sure fire way to turn off the author's main targets for influencing: the devs.

 

The author gives just his/her/their opinions on the set, but no reference-able, replicable, actionable data. Without actual data, the devs have no reason to consider what is being said.

 

The set made it to open beta for fine tuning. So either the majority of the testers were pleased with the set, or the majority dissenters failed to provide any data for the devs to review and act on.

 

Things like "this power works well at the availability it is at because testing against these foes in these missions at this difficulty resulted in this outcome" or "this power does not work well at this availability with this configuration because testing against these foes in these missions at this difficulty resulted in this outcome" is much more valuable feedback to the devs and much more likely to get a change implemented than "I would rather have", "I prefer", "I think", "I believe", "I want", or any other iterations of said comments.

[Lockely]

1 minute ago, Rudra said:

The author spends a lot of time on this thread being disparaging about the set. 'Arse this', 'arse that', 'wet, smelly arse'. That is a sure fire way to turn off the author's main targets for influencing: the devs.

 

To be entirely fair to them, they did a significant amount of testing trying to make the set work before coming up with this alternative (seriously, you can find their testing on the main FF thread), and the only response they got was to have their feedback moved out of the thread and into the new one under a title they didn't get to pick and is borderline insulting. They're angry and rightfully so.

[Crimsanotic]

5 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Things like "this power works well at the availability it is at because testing against these foes in these missions at this difficulty resulted in this outcome" or "this power does not work well at this availability with this configuration because testing against these foes in these missions at this difficulty resulted in this outcome" is much more valuable feedback to the devs and much more likely to get a change implemented than "I would rather have", "I prefer", "I think", "I believe", "I want", or any other iterations of said comments.

 

If you bother to actually look at the main FF thread, you'll find plenty of people doing the former. And similarly doing the latter. Though in either of these cases the opening statement of the sentence doesn't matter. Feedback is feedback, whether or not someone can say something definitively or subjectively.

[PeregrineFalcon]

19 hours ago, Lockely said:

What is the point of having "Focused Feedback" threads when they're really "bug reporting and unintended interactions" threads? Focused Feedback gives the impression that the feedback we provide, especially if it's overwhelmingly on one specific issue, is going to be taken into account and adapted as needed towards the final goal. It does not give the impression that what's been moved to Brainstorm is set in stone and they're looking for simple tweaks.

It has always been this way on Homecoming. This is why myself, and a handful of others, complained back in 2022 that the devs were ignoring feedback. Of course we were attacked and insulted by the Dev Defense League, many of whom are moderators and devs on their personal accounts.

 

At least they aren't banning people from the forums anymore for disliking a change in a Focused Feedback Thread.

 

You read that right. In the last couple of updates if you disagreed with a change and asked the devs not to implement it your posts would get deleted and you'd get a temporary forum ban. I know this because it happened to me and at least a dozen others.

[Rudra]

5 minutes ago, Lockely said:

 

To be entirely fair to them, they did a significant amount of testing trying to make the set work before coming up with this alternative (seriously, you can find their testing on the main FF thread), and the only response they got was to have their feedback moved out of the thread and into the new one under a title they didn't get to pick and is borderline insulting. They're angry and rightfully so.

I stay off the beta forums since I don't spend any time on the beta server (which I don't even have access enabled for), so all I have available for reference is this thread. And the very first post on this thread is a complete power set being pitched by the OP asking for feedback. If the author posted actual data for the devs? Great. The fact the set still made it to open beta still tells me either more feedback approved of the set as is or the dissenters failed to include relevant information to sway the devs.

 

3 minutes ago, Crimsanotic said:

 

If you bother to actually look at the main FF thread, you'll find plenty of people doing the former. And similarly doing the latter. Though in either of these cases the opening statement of the sentence doesn't matter. Feedback is feedback, whether or not someone can say something definitively or subjectively.

Like I said to @Lockely, I avoid the beta forums most times because I don't have a beta presence. And the only feedback I've seen, which I admit is just this thread, is destructive, not constructive.

[Shin Magmus]

2 hours ago, Cyclone Jack said:

The fact that Smoke Grenade was a Tier 2 power in Beta 1, available at character creation, shows that this set was not fully thought through.  That means it went through Design, Implementation, and Closed Beta without *anyone* thinking about or testing it with a new character...

No, Jack, the devs implemented it that way for a reason.  By making the Tier1 and the Tier2 both Sleep powers, it made taking Sleep unavoidable.  That was actually by design, so that the person on the team with the hard-on for Sleep could force anyone trying this set to try Sleep in a push to make the playerbase like the effect more.  The inherent problem of allowing a noob to start with a 45s CD power, and the second inherent problem of NOT allowing a Controller to start with a Hold or Immob for some sort of guaranteed Containment attack chain... were both ignored (initially).

[Shin Magmus]

43 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

It has always been this way on Homecoming. This is why myself, and a handful of others, complained back in 2022 that the devs were ignoring feedback. Of course we were attacked and insulted by the Dev Defense League, many of whom are moderators and devs on their personal accounts.

 

At least they aren't banning people from the forums anymore for disliking a change in a Focused Feedback Thread.

 

You read that right. In the last couple of updates if you disagreed with a change and asked the devs not to implement it your posts would get deleted and you'd get a temporary forum ban. I know this because it happened to me and at least a dozen others.

I understand that's how it has been and I understand that this situation is frustrating because I'm extremely frustrated right now.  However, unlike the last few times, I thought I should at least try a little harder this time to try and get the new powerset to not be another dud set (that nobody plays).

[Bionic_Flea]

Shin, I saw you on beta test trying out an Arse/Storm.  I think it was level 8 when I saw you.  How high did you take it and what did you think of the combo?

 

I've been playing with an Arse/Dark and I find that the sets are pretty complimentary.  I'll play a mission or two at a given level and then bump myself a few levels, choose the new powers and slots, and then try out another mission.  Previously I tried Arse/Traps, Arse/TA, and ArseX3 Dom.  I found the TA and Dark were much better than the other two.

 

I've been running the Arse/Dark at +0/x8 since late 20s and have bumped it up to +4/x8 now that I am 50+.  I've soloed some RWZ missions and some of Maria's arc.  As with many of my controllers, the killing isn't as fast as it would be on a blaster, scrapper, brute, or tank.  And there's certainly other powerset combos in Controllers and other ATs that are faster.  But I find it's fast enough, especially for minions and Lts, with bosses and EBs taking longer but doable.  I might be able to solo AVs with this build, but it would be a slog and I'd rather not even try.

 

So while I agree you can always make any set stronger and Arsenal control is nowhere near the strongest, where is the line where you can honestly say it's good enough?  I understand that your line maybe different from my line and different from everybody else's line.  But it seems to me we should be able to have some benchmark.

 

Not everything will kill as fast as a fire blaster or fire farm as well as a fire/rad brute, but I don't think that everything has to.

[macskull]

On 2/2/2024 at 12:28 PM, BitCook said:

Perhaps the time to solicit feedback would have been in the design phase

It is extremely rare that features which are in the design phase even get teased to the closed beta testers, let alone get presented to solicit feedback. For what it's worth, many of the (perceived and/or actual) issues with Arsenal Control have been brought up by testers since the day the set was released on closed beta about six months ago.

[Shin Magmus]

17 minutes ago, Bionic_Flea said:

Shin, I saw you on beta test trying out an Arse/Storm.  I think it was level 8 when I saw you.  How high did you take it and what did you think of the combo?

My initial impression is that Arse/Storm will be one of the only good ways to get the Immob because they're tying it to Wet, not to immob powers.  So unfortunately, it's one of the only ways to make Arse Control *feel good to play*.  As for Dominators and their options... get fukt?  Chilling Embrace in Icy Assault and Thorntrops in Thorny Assault at least give you an extra slow, and that might have to be enough.

 

...but I don't want to play Arse/Storm, so I am trying to make Arse/Traps work.