Goldside DFB

[Lockely]

So, anyone who's played CoH for longer than 10mins will tell you that DFB is one of the most sought-after trials in the game. They're constantly running Blueside, and it takes only a few minutes to start one up Redside, but you know who gets left out? Goldside.

Praetorian characters are left out of supremely fast level-ups until they hit 20 and can swap over. There's no trials, no TF/SFs, nothing until you swap sides.

So, what if we added a DFB to Goldside?

 

Group 1: The Destroyers (Hellion replacement)
Group 2: Ghouls (Vaz replacement)
Group 3: Infested (Lost replacement) - These will need to be re-created with low-level mobs, a small hint of the Hamidon infestation growing in the underground.
Final Boss: Hydra Heads - The Hydra appear all over the multiverse it seems like. Considering the cross-universe incursions done by Anti-Matter and Neuron during the PI mission arcs for Tina Mac and Maria Jenkins, it's very possible a small cross-contamination occurred at some point.

This alone could drastically increase the number of new veteran Goldside players, and folks wanting to pop over to Nova Praetoria and run it for the shiny new badges at the very least.

[Major_Decoy]

They Hydra are in Primal Earth because the Rikti brought them there, that's why you fight them after the Lost.

 

If you're fighting some big monster in Praetoria, it'd make more sense for it to be Devouring Earth. Honestly, the whole thing could just be devouring earth. You start with some devouring earth infected robots as you clear your way down to spore beast that you have to defeat so that the nearby shield generator doesn't drop entirely.

 

Edit: A spore cloud would also explain why a big name wasn't taking care of it. You send some disposable new guys because you don't want to have to fight an infested Anti-Matter when you could just be mopping the floor with an infested Reese.

Edited March 11 by Major_Decoy

[Rudra]

1 hour ago, Major_Decoy said:

They Hydra are in Primal Earth because the Rikti brought them there, that's why you fight them after the Lost.

 

If you're fighting some big monster in Praetoria, it'd make more sense for it to be Devouring Earth. Honestly, the whole thing could just be devouring earth. You start with some devouring earth infected robots as you clear your way down to spore beast that you have to defeat so that the nearby shield generator doesn't drop entirely.

 

Edit: A spore cloud would also explain why a big name wasn't taking care of it. You send some disposable new guys because you don't want to have to fight an infested Anti-Matter when you could just be mopping the floor with an infested Reese.

Wouldn't that be the Underground iTrial? (I know it isn't a low level TF and the OP is specifically for a low level TF. However, the Devouring Earth in Praetoria are intentionally leaving Praetoria alone per Hamidon except for the Avatar and its converted/support forces placed in the deep Underground where the iTrial takes place.)

 

3 hours ago, Lockely said:

Praetorian characters are left out of supremely fast level-ups until they hit 20 and can swap over. There's no trials, no TF/SFs, nothing until you swap sides.

Praetorian characters already get more xp per mob because of the increased difficulty of those mobs. Making something like DFB for gold side will probably catapult the level 1 character to or near level 20.

 

Also, the reason why there are no TFs gold side is because the only major threat is Hamidon and Hamidon is leaving Praetoria alone until Tyrant fails his promise in the trials. The reason why there are no TFs for the different factions in Praetoria itself is because Tyrant and his Praetors very ruthlessly exterminated all threats dumb enough to make themselves a major target. Even the opposition you see in the streets are "carefully" maintained by the Praetors for different objectives. For instance, the Destroyers as maintained by Marauder and Dominatrix. The ghouls that keep getting released into the Underground to give the Resistance a constant threat they have to work around. The Clockwork that serve as Anti-Matter's and Neuron's eyes and ears while cleaning the city and Underground, and helping keep the ghouls and Resistance more or less contained. Even the Syndicate and Resistance are doing their level best to maintain a low enough profile that Tyrant and the Praetors don't squish them in oblivion. (Despite how some Resistance cells try to make themselves a more visible threat by blowing up hospitals and police stations. Which gets thwarted by the players. And even if the players weren't involved, the Top Dogs of Marauder would move to deal with any threat the Resistance attempts that are deemed beyond the rank and file Powers Division's ability because none of them want an angry Tyrant possibly permanently removing them for threatening his deal with Hamidon.) If Tyrant can't keep the peace per his deal with Hamidon, and anything that gets major enough to constitute a TF would get Hamidon's attention for the sheer scope of events involved, Hamidon is more than willing to simply erase Praetoria and everyone in it. (Remember, the Avatar is intentionally nearby to monitor what is happening in Praetoria. And there are DE just beyond the sonic fence to maintain a visible threat for Tyrant to rally people around him and also keep an eye on Tyrant/the people of Praetoria. Even the Seed is well positioned in First Ward to help maintain some surveillance.) So while Tyrant and the Praetors can't keep total peace in Praetoria, they were successful enough that the closest you get to TFs are the zone events.

[Major_Decoy]

11 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Wouldn't that be the Underground iTrial? (I know it isn't a low level TF and the OP is specifically for a low level TF. However, the Devouring Earth in Praetoria are intentionally leaving Praetoria alone per Hamidon except for the Avatar and its converted/support forces placed in the deep Underground where the iTrial takes place.)

Yeah, there are definitely similarities. I suppose the difference would be the reasons for the trip. In a low level Incursion From Above, a group of Power Division Initiates could gather because the Resistance delved too deep and too greedily and encountered Devouring Earth they shouldn't have, and they've been sent to investigate what happened to the the police that had gone to arrest them. The Resistance would have a side mission of recovering supplies, the loyalists would have a side mission of collecting records.

 

Edit: Imagine a whole room full of of Geode Shards, like tiny parody of the final chamber of the Eden trial.

Edited March 11 by Major_Decoy

[Greycat]

... why would you want a "fast XP" option for a side that's fairly strongly story-specific and already kicks you out at 20? Sounds like saying "I really want to see this movie," then fast forwarding to two minutes before the credits roll...

[Lunar Ronin]

One of the main reasons why SO enhancements are available at level two now is because gold side characters don't have access to the Death from Below trial and the equivalent SO enhancement bonuses from it.  Adding DFB to gold side would negate that.

 

In addition, as pointed out, gold side is much more of a solo player story-driven side.  If you want to do DFB, just play blue or red side.

[Lockely]

36 minutes ago, Greycat said:

... why would you want a "fast XP" option for a side that's fairly strongly story-specific and already kicks you out at 20? Sounds like saying "I really want to see this movie," then fast forwarding to two minutes before the credits roll...

 

You've seen the movie already many times over the last twenty years and want a character with access to their badges without having to play the first twenty levels entirely alone.

[Oubliette_Red]

2 minutes ago, Lockely said:

 

You've seen the movie already many times over the last twenty years and want a character with access to their badges without having to play the first twenty levels entirely alone.

 

How are you getting all those badges if you fast-forward through all the content? Unless you're now going to spend the next 4 days hunting mobs.

 

[Lunar Ronin]

4 minutes ago, Oubliette_Red said:

 

How are you getting all those badges if you fast-forward through all the content? Unless you're now going to spend the next 4 days hunting mobs.

 

 

You would have to run the story arcs via Ouroboros Flashback, which partly negates the reason for starting a character gold side in the first place. 

 

The first three zones of gold side just weren't meant for teaming.  It's too story-oriented, and the morality missions are single-player on top of that.

Edited March 11 by Lunar Ronin

[Sunsette]

I wouldn't say I'm against this idea, but I don't see a lot of need for it either in the present state of gold-side -- I just feel like there's a lot of things I would prioritize first for improving its leveling experience. 

[Oubliette_Red]

1 minute ago, Lunar Ronin said:

 

You would have to run the story arcs via Ouroboros Flashback, which partly negates the reason for starting a character gold side in the first place. 

 

The first three zones of gold side just weren't meant for teaming.  It's too story-oriented, and the morality missions are single-player on top of that.

 

Most definitely. I just ran my Stalker through Goldside allarcs Betrayal, took 46 hrs of playtime and a judicious use of NoXP. I couldn't imagine doing an all-arcs run on a team. A couple of friends and I are running through Goldside Responsibility Loyalist arc and we all use a toggle to turn off/on XP.

 

[Lockely]

7 minutes ago, Oubliette_Red said:

 

How are you getting all those badges if you fast-forward through all the content? Unless you're now going to spend the next 4 days hunting mobs.

 

 

You know they get different badge names for all the default level up, debt, and other badges right? Just like how they're different on redside/blueside, many are unique per goldside.

On top of that, many RPers would love a way to be 50 and still goldside alignment for Praetorian characters. It's currently *doable* but only through AE exclusive Pocket D farming.

 

I want to circle back to this statement:
 

2 hours ago, Rudra said:

Praetorian characters already get more xp per mob because of the increased difficulty of those mobs. Making something like DFB for gold side will probably catapult the level 1 character to or near level 20.

 

Would love your data on this. I went to City of Data and looked up the reward scale of the enemy groups you face in the standard Praetorian 1-20 zones, (Syndicate, Praetorian PD, Ghouls, Destroyers, Resistance) and all have a reward scale of 1, meaning they do not have boosted XP at all.

[Rudra]

3 hours ago, Lockely said:

On top of that, many RPers would love a way to be 50 and still goldside alignment for Praetorian characters. It's currently *doable* but only through AE exclusive Pocket D farming.

The Praetorian characters that work to get to 50 that I know of make prodigious use of Night Ward, not AE farms.

 

3 hours ago, Lockely said:

6 hours ago, Rudra said:

Praetorian characters already get more xp per mob because of the increased difficulty of those mobs. Making something like DFB for gold side will probably catapult the level 1 character to or near level 20.

 

Would love your data on this. I went to City of Data and looked up the reward scale of the enemy groups you face in the standard Praetorian 1-20 zones, (Syndicate, Praetorian PD, Ghouls, Destroyers, Resistance) and all have a reward scale of 1, meaning they do not have boosted XP at all.

I don't have data on it other than the fact my gold side characters level faster than my red or blue side characters over less missions.

[Sunsette]

I'm reasonably sure it's that gold-side rewards more XP per mission completion and has more missions that are not defeat-alls. Increasing XP per kill would have been going backwards in game design.

[Rudra]

22 minutes ago, Sunsette said:

I'm reasonably sure it's that gold-side rewards more XP per mission completion and has more missions that are not defeat-alls. Increasing XP per kill would have been going backwards in game design.

Wouldn't be the first time I was wrong. Still, as quickly as gold siders level compared to red and blue, I'm still not understanding the call for a gold side DFB. It doesn't make lore sense and we already level up way fast there. (Edit: And if for some reason that is still not fast enough? Hit up START and grab a x2 XP booster, and rocket through gold side.)

Edited March 11 by Rudra

[Sunsette]

12 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Still, as quickly as gold siders level compared to red and blue, I'm still not understanding the call for a gold side DFB. It doesn't make lore sense and we already level up way fast there.

 

My perception is that I actually level faster on red and blue than gold, even when both aren't using the Exp Buffs. I don't go for leveling speed in any way as a goal, however. So that could be for any number of confounding reasons.

 

Anyway, the call for a gold-side DFB is pretty simple:

• Praetorian content hasn't had an update since live and it is the game at some of its best points in many ways
• Gold-side has low population
• It matters to a lot of us where our characters start and what their badges say about them even if we don't necessarily want to do those story plotlines again.

 

It isn't something I really want myself for a variety of reasons:

• DFB just doesn't interest me that much and I don't do it very often.
• I'd rather prioritize other things about Praetoria, like expanding the levels bands for the first three regions' missions to reduce skippability and putting in more content in the Wards so that you don't have to rely on randoms so much.
• As much as I prefer Praetoria to the other sides, it's not really a full side and the more support it gets as a full side, the more it risks further partitioning the player base or requiring a complete rewrite of the alignment system, and two factions was, in my view, already a mistake (at least as implemented).

 

But I'm not against the idea in and of itself.

Edited March 11 by Sunsette

[Rudra]

4 hours ago, Sunsette said:

My perception is that I actually level faster on red and blue than gold, even when both aren't using the Exp Buffs. I don't go for leveling speed in any way as a goal, however.

I don't pursue leveling speed either. (Like others, I turn off xp to avoid outleveling content regardless of blue side, red side, or gold side.) However, I'm curious as to what we are doing differently since when I make a gold sider I have to turn off xp to avoid leveling and just play through most of the content without xp. Something I don't have to do as much red side or blue side.

 

4 hours ago, Sunsette said:

It matters to a lot of us where our characters start and what their badges say about them even if we don't necessarily want to do those story plotlines again.

Believe it or not, I get that. It's why my gold side characters are gold siders and not red or blue siders that are going to flashback to Praetoria to do the content.

 

4 hours ago, Sunsette said:

Praetorian content hasn't had an update since live and it is the game at some of its best points in many ways

I'm not sure, but I think Praetoria was more of a proof of concept that allowed players to make Praetorians and see what the dystopia actually is like. Sort of a novelty that showcased more difficult foes and missions in a prettier setting with darker lore. Regardless, it is difficult to expand Praetoria without taking away from the flow of the zone as I see it. I'm open to more content gold side, it's just that with the lore of Praetoria, it is rather difficult to fit too much in without tossing Praetoria's lore.

 

4 hours ago, Sunsette said:

Gold-side has low population

This could use its own thread like the "Red Side... Best Side? Right??" thread. Though it will run into your mentioned problem of further partitioning the player base.

 

Edited March 11 by Rudra
Edited to correct "within" to "without".

[Darmian]

On 3/11/2024 at 2:01 PM, Lockely said:

It's currently *doable* but only through AE exclusive Pocket D farming.

No, you can do it without farming.  It's not easy but you can and I have.

[Darmian]

If you're going to add stuff to the initial three Praetorian zones (and the other two) the first thing would be so slide the level requirements so you don't outlevel contacts.  That would mean probably hitting level 30 by the time you finish Neutropolis.  Now I'm not against that, but it would take careful consideration of how it is done.

[BrandX]

On 3/11/2024 at 7:41 AM, Lockely said:

 

You've seen the movie already many times over the last twenty years and want a character with access to their badges without having to play the first twenty levels entirely alone.

 

I've ran multiple Gold Side Characters (even one of my main's rerolls was done in Praetoria) and honestly, it's pretty fast if you're just going for 1-20 as quickly as possible.  Only slows down if you're turning off XP to get all the storylines in.

[Techwright]

I've not tried this myself, so I'm just curious:  there's a means of accessing Pocket D from Gold side, so would it be possible for a goldside character to launch a DFB or even a DIB from Pocket D using LFG queuing?

[Lunar Ronin]

3 minutes ago, Techwright said:

I've not tried this myself, so I'm just curious:  there's a means of accessing Pocket D from Gold side, so would it be possible for a goldside character to launch a DFB or even a DIB from Pocket D using LFG queuing?

 

Nope.  DFB doesn't work in co-op zones, at least not with a team with multiple alignments.

[Techwright]

3 minutes ago, Lunar Ronin said:

 

Nope.  DFB doesn't work in co-op zones, at least not with a team with multiple alignments.

Thanks.  May I presume that DIB is the same? 

[Lunar Ronin]

2 minutes ago, Techwright said:

Thanks.  May I presume that DIB is the same? 

 

Yep.

[Darmian]

20 hours ago, Techwright said:

I've not tried this myself, so I'm just curious:  there's a means of accessing Pocket D from Gold side, so would it be possible for a goldside character to launch a DFB or even a DIB from Pocket D using LFG queuing?

As stated above, can't be done. The SBB, Incarnate Trials and some (but not all) of the Holiday things can be done though.  The ones that can't be done are Valentine's Day tips.  Which is a bit annoying since there ARE Praetorian-centric Valentine's Day tips but since they drop randomly there's no guarantee of getting them, and if you get Primal Earth ones you can't dismiss them because you can't open them.  So, frustrating.  Nor can the Red Widow arc be done.