anti-speed task force mode: required ambushes

[kelika2]

This is just for experience gain only.  Every objective you do, no matter the type, there are ambushes.  More merits as a result.

 

Example:  in the CoT trial:  you click an obelisk you get an ambush.  this ambush becomes a new objective.  even if you assemble 8 people to click at the same time and someone ATTs to the end to kill the Monster and Hostage it still does not complete because of the oblilisk ambushes on top of the monster death ambush and hostage saving ambush.  This can be for EVERY task force

 

Maybe at higher levels that Vet Level 9999 motherfucker wont care as he handles it all by himself but leveling up and pre-incarnate it will promote working together as a team.. maybe.

[Zect]

29 minutes ago, kelika2 said:

Maybe at higher levels that Vet Level 9999 motherfucker wont care as he handles it all by himself but leveling up and pre-incarnate it will promote working together as a team.. maybe.

Ok, so you wait until the very end of your post to explain the problem you’re trying to solve. (I really wish people would do this at the start instead: effective problem solving begins with an accurate identification of the problem.)

 

And I can tell you that your convoluted solution will not work on the kind of person who still thinks soloing on a team is impressive in 2024. They will just run off to some objective, pop it then solo the ambush.

 

If you want to kill speeding tfs and aren’t concerned about collateral damage - as forumites tend to be - there is a much simpler way to achieve that. Just make every mission defeat all. Every one, in addition to the existing objectives. 
 

I have nothing for or against speeding, btw, as far as I’m concerned you kill what you please. 

[Rudra]

If a team wants to speed their TF/SF, let them. If you don't, form your own team and tell everyone it is not a speed run beforehand. Trying to force others to play the way you want is wrong. And even if you make every objective spawn a mandatory to defeat ambush, solo'ers will still solo the TFs/SFs and speed runners will still speed run their TFs and SFs.

 

2 hours ago, kelika2 said:

Maybe at higher levels that Vet Level 9999 motherfucker

Also, calling someone a "motherfucker" for playing a single character (to the best of my knowledge) to reach such a high vet level is uncalled for.

 

2 hours ago, kelika2 said:

and pre-incarnate it will promote working together as a team.

Aren't you the one on the 'Suggestion for Incarnate Salvage' thread calling to be able to be incarnate below level 45?

[Clave Dark 5]

3 hours ago, Rudra said:

 Trying to force others to play the way you want is wrong.

I'll still call them wrong for cheating at the game*, mainly because they're missing the fun of it all and will get bored awfully fast.  😃  But I know that's just me.

 

Agreed on the bit about "mofo" though.

 

*I mean, the devs didn't design it to be played that way, and speedruns are intended to get the same rewards faster and with less effort, so the term feels applicable.

[JasperStone]

31 minutes ago, Clave Dark 5 said:

I'll still call them wrong for cheating at the game*, mainly because they're missing the fun of it all and will get bored awfully fast.  😃  But I know that's just me.

Yes, it is you.

Well, no, not really.

This topic comes up often on the forums.

Also ...define fun.

I am looking through the original CoH and CoV that I keep on my desk ...

Nowhere do I see "The real way...the only to the game is by clearing everything."

 

34 minutes ago, Clave Dark 5 said:

I'll still call them wrong for cheating at the game

Please clarify how it is cheating.

If you don't clear all, you miss out on a ton of influence and drops. You will get the idea by comparing a Speed ITF to a KM ITF.

 

35 minutes ago, Clave Dark 5 said:

*I mean, the devs didn't design it to be played that way, and speedruns are intended to get the same rewards faster and with less effort, so the term feels applicable.

Are you an original developer.....

 

You have missed out on how flexible this game is.

Play as you wish.

 

It came off to me as smug and better than thou... "I clear everything, you just speed."

[Greycat]

Part of why I don't play Praetoria is that it feels like it's ambush city. Walk down the street, ambush. Read a newspaper, ambush. Fight an ambush, get another ambush. No thanks. I don't care how many merits or extra merits it gives.

 

And if you have an issue with the way some people play, don't play with them.

[Rudra]

4 hours ago, Clave Dark 5 said:

I'll still call them wrong for cheating at the game*, mainly because they're missing the fun of it all and will get bored awfully fast.  😃  But I know that's just me.

 

Agreed on the bit about "mofo" though.

 

*I mean, the devs didn't design it to be played that way, and speedruns are intended to get the same rewards faster and with less effort, so the term feels applicable.

Speed run TFs/SFs annoy me, but I understand that other players may not have the time to defeat most/all in missions, let alone TFs and SFs. Some players prefer to shorten the missions as much as possible rather than get bogged down fighting everything. And stealthy players want to be able to make use of their stealth and not be punished for it by being told that they still have to go back and wipe out the map anyway. (I'm one of those stealthy players annoyed by not being able to stealth things because of mission requirements.) It isn't cheating, it is their preferred approach to the game.

[kelika2]

11 hours ago, Zect said:

Ok, so you wait until the very end of your post to explain the problem you’re trying to solve.

was also in the headline, not sure why you are surprised

[kelika2]

also, does "mode" mean something else to some folks?

[Ukase]

13 hours ago, kelika2 said:

This is just for experience gain only.  Every objective you do, no matter the type, there are ambushes.  More merits as a result.

 

Example:  in the CoT trial:  you click an obelisk you get an ambush.  this ambush becomes a new objective.  even if you assemble 8 people to click at the same time and someone ATTs to the end to kill the Monster and Hostage it still does not complete because of the oblilisk ambushes on top of the monster death ambush and hostage saving ambush.  This can be for EVERY task force

 

Maybe at higher levels that Vet Level 9999 motherfucker wont care as he handles it all by himself but leveling up and pre-incarnate it will promote working together as a team.. maybe.

I don't grasp what this is attempting to do. 
If players want to work as a team, the option is and has always been there. 

What this seems to suggest is forcing players to deal with extra ambushes, much like a farmer would desire in AE. 

Okay. But if implemented, it's not going to turn out like you think. We'll make builds to farm it for the xp (and inf) and the extra merits you propose. 

Working as a team is easily promoted by teammates communicating. That's all it takes. 

[Rudra]

28 minutes ago, kelika2 said:

also, does "mode" mean something else to some folks?

Then please explain what you mean. Because the actual OP does not mention it being an option, it seems to be a mandate to force players to have to contend with extra ambushes if they even dare sneeze in their missions. Which reads like you are trying to force others to play the way you want. And if it is an option instead, then congrats, you just turned TFs and SFs into massive farms. Both interpretations I see are bad. So if you mean something other than those two possibilities, please enlighten us.

[Luminara]

Doesn't seem like it would actually slow anyone down if there's nothing to stop everyone from stealthing to different objectives and soloing the ambushes.  Same speed run, extra rewards.  At most, it'd tack on an extra 35-40 seconds, and I doubt anyone's going to need a change of underwear over that.

[Player2]

8 hours ago, Clave Dark 5 said:

I'll still call them wrong for cheating at the game*, mainly because they're missing the fun of it all and will get bored awfully fast.  😃  But I know that's just me.

 

Agreed on the bit about "mofo" though.

 

*I mean, the devs didn't design it to be played that way, and speedruns are intended to get the same rewards faster and with less effort, so the term feels applicable.

It's not cheating the game, it's cheating themselves.

 

Also, speed runs definitely do not get the same rewards faster because they're missing out on XP and influence from all of the stuff that they skip.

 

I think a good way to encourage playing through more content might be to include additional (or maybe just break up) mission completion bonuses for achieving secondary objective(s).  Like there might be ambushes or other stuff going on that you get XP/Inf for defeating normally, but it can still be skipped... and if it is skipped then deduct an appropriate amount from the overall mission bonus or add to the mission completion bonus for the added objectives that are completed.  Whichever way would add more incentive.

[Indystruck]

Nah.

[AerialAssault]

Smart mission design can coerce players into, well, playing the mission.

 

Penelope Yin Task Force is a good example of this. Four missions, short and sweet, each one no more than a few minutes long on a half-way competent group. A lot of people don't realise that you don't actually have to defeat all the enemies on the map, so you could, with a well-coordinated team, "stealth" them. However, those objectives are pretty much all hostage rescues, so anyone who wants to 'speed' needs to be confident in their ability to take down the enemies around the hostage. Furthermore, the maps are presented in a very linear fashion; there are no side-routes, short cuts or 'optimal' paths. There is just one way to go.

 

Positron Task Force is similar in this regard, but typically takes longer due to the lower level and, in my opinion, much tougher enemies. Again, these task forces use multiple objectives which are hard to be stealthed or sped through.

 

Bad examples of this are Synapse & Citadel. Just endless slogs of Defeat Alls in huge, sprawling maps. 'Speed' in these task forces means literally killing everything as quick as possible, I can forgive any team choosing the speed through the missions which aren't Defeat Alls.

 

Ambushes are a lazy solution to something which isn't really that much of a problem, and a terrible one at that. I have a long history with complaining about how Ambushes work in CoX, and it boils down to this: Ambush AI isn't consistent. I think Ambushes have a time and a place and that certainly isn't when the players complete any objective. As @Greycat mentioned above, Praetoria operates on this for a lot of the story content and it gets very dull, very fast. Clicked a glowy? Ambush. Cutscene? Ambush. Opened a door? Ambush. Loaded into the mission? Ambush. Ambush? Ambush.

 

In summary: I don't necessarily think it's wrong to dissuade 'speed' Task Forces (there's something to be said about making skippable content within a mission, surely you want all of the mission to be engaging?), but if it is going to be done it would be better to do it in a more intelligent manner through clever mission design that everyone can benefit from, rather than a 'forced engagement' setting.

[Clave Dark 5]

30 minutes ago, AerialAssault said:

there's something to be said about making skippable content within a mission, surely you want all of the mission to be engaging?

Many players* now feel that hunting out short cuts to fast and easy rewards is the best and only reasonable way to play, that's why we get threads here like "what's the fastest way to get merits?"  I figure AE farming really set up that sugar rush mentality for them. 

 

But yeah, better mission design all round helps.  My fave example is Summer Block Buster: you're capped to (what is it, 35?), no hiding behind your purples and Incarnates, no speed running around half the arena battles or anything.  You have to know how to play, not snooze your way through.  

 

*who weirdly taking insult when I ever say these things, but I'm used to it by now ha ha.

[kelika2]

1 hour ago, AerialAssault said:

Bad examples of this are Synapse & Citadel.

synapes is great as the maps are not complicated and i think over time they are getting smaller and smaller.  great for lower levels to get exp and rewarded for playing

 

citadel however i agree only because the ant-farm tier maps have really spaced out enemy groups on top of z-axis abuse.  mastermind pets cant connect, or one enemy jumping down a tier and easily getting away.  and im not even talking about the water room and facing a group or two of enemies inside the ant-tunnels is a nightmare