League Running, Scaling Enemies, and Annoyance

[SpookTheHerd]

Since the surge of players after the licensing, I've found myself opting to form leagues for monster hunting and spontaneous zone events. When it comes to zone events, whoever I recruit as can be very circumstantial, I recruit in the moment without swapping toons, because by that time who knows what I might have missed. I often broadcast "I'm not a 50 but I can invite" and keep an eye out for higher level characters in order to make them team leads. I only keep people on my team who are under my level.

 

League leadership and team management are not a thing to thrust on an unsuspecting player. Being a 50 is no guarantee that a player even understands most of the games interface. What I've found annoying, even as a character in their mid-40 levels, is the unceasing calls to put a 50 in charge. It is my understanding that with scaling enemies like GM's and Rikti Raids and Mapservers, that so long as you have access to all of your powers, you will fight just as effectively.

 

A level 15 character could run an AE arc which arbitrarily scales them up to level 50, they will operate just as effectively as they would at their own level. Maybe EXP payout is somewhat different? However, back when the spontaneous rikti raids were running, I recall someone saying "we should put a 50 in charge!" after I had gone through every team to verify that not only were there no 50's, but every team was headed up by the highest level player available.

 

I know nothing will ever stop the clamoring for "make be 50 now", I was just hoping someone could spell out precisely why it's so unbearable to have a team take on Kraken at the highest available level on the team when that level does not happen to arbitrarily be 50. My suspicion is that many players simply don't have an understanding or faith in the scaling nature of exp & damage against these enemies.

 

 

[Krimson]

Conversely, if I show up with a 50 to a GM fight, I am not joining anyone's league or team. I'm not fond of suddenly becoming level 14 in the middle of a fight, so I remove the option for that to happen. 

[SpookTheHerd]

That's definitely another side of the coin. My approach as an incoming player, at least to a GM fight, is just get some hits in. Team or league makes no difference if you are actively engaging.

These requests for a 50 to be in the lead never actually come FROM 50`s.

[Krimson]

I used to solo them until it was decided to be badwrongfun, so I stopped hunting them myself and only show up if it's convenient for me to do so.

[UltraAlt]

22 minutes ago, SpookTheHerd said:

Being a 50 is no guarantee that a player even understands most of the games interface.

 

I'd say there is a 50/50 chance that a level 50 player has experience playing their character or not.

I'm thinking that there is even a lower percentage of players that know how to deal with the league interface.

 

I was never on a league before the Sunset. I wasn't ever on a league until I had been on Homecoming for over year.

I can't say that I have a good grip on the interface even now. I've never lead one, so I have no idea how to move characters from one team to another in a league.

That being said, I don't play my level 50's unless there is some kind of call for help on the /lfg to defeat an AV.

 

29 minutes ago, SpookTheHerd said:

....I recall someone saying "we should put a 50 in charge!" after I had gone through every team to verify that not only were there no 50's, but every team was headed up by the highest level player available.

 

You know....

No one wants to recruit because they don't want to lead a team.

Once a team is setup, there are those that want to tell you how to lead or to give up the star. Even worse, they they take it upon themselves on a task force to decide it is a speed task force and complain when you tell them that it isn't - and your only recourse it to give them the boot.

 

35 minutes ago, SpookTheHerd said:

I know nothing will ever stop the clamoring for "make be 50 now", I was just hoping someone could spell out precisely why it's so unbearable to have a team take on Kraken at the highest available level on the team when that level does not happen to arbitrarily be 50. My suspicion is that many players simply don't have an understanding or faith in the scaling nature of exp & damage against these enemies.

 

Your powers and HP do scale up as you level, so that might be part of it.

I believe you are correct fighting-wise, that it doesn't make that big of a difference on scaling enemies.

 

Rewards probably scale as well though, so a team may get more XP fighting scaling enemies if the lead character on a team is at a higher level.

I have no idea how much of a difference that really would between a lead in the 40's and one at 50.

[SpookTheHerd]

I actually think that exp rewards are calculated out based on each player's individual level. That's why at lvl 1 you can join a 50`s team but with each enemy defeated you get the exp appropriate as a lvl 1, with whatever + the team is fighting against. I think? 

[Ukase]

2 hours ago, SpookTheHerd said:

I was just hoping someone could spell out precisely why it's so unbearable to have a team take on Kraken at the highest available level on the team when that level does not happen to arbitrarily be 50.

For one, you are absolutely correct in thinking the npc/GM scales up or down, depending on each player's respective level. How it does that is beyond me. 

But, from someone who just finished playing a tank, I was really focused on my hitpoints. The more HP I have, the more regen I have. The more hits I can take, etc. 
So, if I'm level 40, and then get myself on a league and suddenly I'm 22, then yeah, I'm thinking about that. Am I going to ask to be promoted? Probably not. It's just a GM fight that's going to be over in 20-30 seconds. 

But the hitpoints are really the only reason I can think of why it would matter. 
 

[Clave Dark 5]

People who are 50s who call for the star or to make everyone a 50 could be doing so because they're going to lose access to their near-end-game powers, taken say after they made 45 or something.  If they're below 50, they also can't use their Incarnate powers, and it seems that a lot of high-performance builds crutch their way past some otherwise bad choices with those.  Plus all those purple sets now won't work as well either.  Please won't someone think of the 50s?!  😃

 

Snark aside, I'll often drop down below my level for the sake of doing whatever, but there have been times when I was all "look, I just picked up my pet!  I don't want to go team and not be able to use it" or something.  But I also won't demand to put put in charge or anything.

[Greycat]

Pretty much the only (real, versus imagined) reason to give the star to a 50 would be Incarnate powers - and *possibly* slotting, depending on what they've done to their sets.

 

(Edit - and actually *having* all their powers. I know I'll occasionally be thrown if II'm so used to having some power available, hop into a crowd and  "... crap, I'm exemped down past that power ow ow ow ow ow.")

 

Edited April 10 by Greycat

[tidge]

3 hours ago, Krimson said:

Conversely, if I show up with a 50 to a GM fight, I am not joining anyone's league or team. I'm not fond of suddenly becoming level 14 in the middle of a fight, so I remove the option for that to happen. 

 

My first "nastygram" tell recently came because I explicitly declined to join a league that was forming to fight the Grim Vale duo. I tried to explain that all I cared about was the merit drops, but for some reason that player was extremely upset. It's not as if that solo 50 of mine was going to kill steal the GMs.

 

But yes... I've been on zone leagues that were being run by a player that was not doing a good job making sure that teams were being led by players who were at least at the level of Croatoa... so there may have been that to deal with as well.

 

There are two ways I know of to get a team star to a desired player:

1. The league leader keeps shuffling players (on the "weak team") with the star to another team, until the player they want to be the team lead is #1
2. The team leader passes the star (to someone already on their team)

Level 50s don't have much of a reason to whine about being at level 45, as Incarnates should work down to that level. Slotting should only matter if players are not using attuned/winter/ATO or PVP/Purple enhancements.

[GM Crumpet]

From my point of view it's desirable to have a 50 as team lead in a league as that way you can just move people about without worrying a 50 will suddenly lose levels. It's really annoying when your pets suddenly despawn, especially if they have a long cool down. As a 50 mastermind having all my pets suddenly die because I've dropped in level stops me from contributing until I've resummoned them, and if it's low enough the higher tier pets or upgrades grey out. XP and inf wise it doesn't make a difference, and the scaling damage means I'm still doing my bit, but losing access to incarnate abilities or higher level powers can make a real impact on the league.

[GM Crumpet]

1 hour ago, Greycat said:

Pretty much the only (real, versus imagined) reason to give the star to a 50 would be Incarnate powers - and *possibly* slotting, depending on what they've done to their sets.

 

(Edit - and actually *having* all their powers. I know I'll occasionally be thrown if II'm so used to having some power available, hop into a crowd and  "... crap, I'm exemped down past that power ow ow ow ow ow.")

 

Some powers are quite important and helpful. I find Ageless invaluable on some toggle heavy builds. When constantly attacking I'm often slowly losing endurance as the rate I gain endurance is slightly less than the rate I use it 🙂 

[Snarky]

6 hours ago, SpookTheHerd said:

Since the surge of players after the licensing, I've found myself opting to form leagues for monster hunting and spontaneous zone events. When it comes to zone events, whoever I recruit as can be very circumstantial, I recruit in the moment without swapping toons, because by that time who knows what I might have missed. I often broadcast "I'm not a 50 but I can invite" and keep an eye out for higher level characters in order to make them team leads. I only keep people on my team who are under my level.

 

League leadership and team management are not a thing to thrust on an unsuspecting player. Being a 50 is no guarantee that a player even understands most of the games interface. What I've found annoying, even as a character in their mid-40 levels, is the unceasing calls to put a 50 in charge. It is my understanding that with scaling enemies like GM's and Rikti Raids and Mapservers, that so long as you have access to all of your powers, you will fight just as effectively.

 

A level 15 character could run an AE arc which arbitrarily scales them up to level 50, they will operate just as effectively as they would at their own level. Maybe EXP payout is somewhat different? However, back when the spontaneous rikti raids were running, I recall someone saying "we should put a 50 in charge!" after I had gone through every team to verify that not only were there no 50's, but every team was headed up by the highest level player available.

 

I know nothing will ever stop the clamoring for "make be 50 now", I was just hoping someone could spell out precisely why it's so unbearable to have a team take on Kraken at the highest available level on the team when that level does not happen to arbitrarily be 50. My suspicion is that many players simply don't have an understanding or faith in the scaling nature of exp & damage against these enemies.

 

 

Have you tried using 50s?

[SpookTheHerd]

53 minutes ago, Snarky said:

Have you tried using 50s?

If a zone event is popping off around me and I'm currently logged in as a 36+,

and people keep broadcasting 'league?', 

and I verify that they're all underneath my level? 

I'm gonna form that league.

 

If 50's show up, they can be leads of teams 2-♾️. As long as everyone on team 1 is under my level, everyone on the league should be able to work at their full capacity.

 

Again, league leadership shouldn't be thrust on anyone who's not prepared to handle it during an ongoing event where people are still asking for invites. 

 

Edit for excessive egotistical boasting:

You may be 50 in level, but I AM a 50 in managerial skills!

Edited April 10 by SpookTheHerd

[SpookTheHerd]

3 hours ago, Greycat said:

Pretty much the only (real, versus imagined) reason to give the star to a 50 would be Incarnate powers - and *possibly* slotting, depending on what they've done to their sets.

 

(Edit - and actually *having* all their powers. I know I'll occasionally be thrown if II'm so used to having some power available, hop into a crowd and  "... crap, I'm exemped down past that power ow ow ow ow ow.")

 

 

Under the conditions I'm speaking of, nobody will have lost access to any earned powers. There were instances organizing rikti raid teams when there were NO 50's in the league and people were like "put a 50 in charge!". I would ask "OK didja bring one?" after verifying that they were on a team being run by the highest level player available.

 

I can be level 25 as a league leader and a 50 can be the lead of team 2+ just fine. 

 

[SpookTheHerd]

5 hours ago, Ukase said:

For one, you are absolutely correct in thinking the npc/GM scales up or down, depending on each player's respective level. How it does that is beyond me. 

But, from someone who just finished playing a tank, I was really focused on my hitpoints. The more HP I have, the more regen I have. The more hits I can take, etc. 
So, if I'm level 40, and then get myself on a league and suddenly I'm 22, then yeah, I'm thinking about that. Am I going to ask to be promoted? Probably not. It's just a GM fight that's going to be over in 20-30 seconds. 

But the hitpoints are really the only reason I can think of why it would matter. 
 

 

These are good points, as well as an underleveled MM having access to extra pet spawns which aren't available at their individual level. 

 

Re: the scaling: as much as we talk of the spaghetti code of the game, the fact that scaling enemies seem to just work as intended is nothing to sneeze at.

 

[Uun]

This behavior may derive from the Halloween ToT leagues. Unlike zone invasions, the foes you get when you click on the doors aren't levelless and follow your notoriety settings. So if you're ToTing in PI or Kalisti, the foes are going to be lvl 50-54. If you've got a 6-team league going, it can be a big shock when the lvl 50 leading one of the teams decides to leave and the star moves to a lvl 30 and you're suddenly fighting +20s. I ran into this quite a bit when I ran a league during that event. 

[GM Crumpet]

12 hours ago, SpookTheHerd said:

 

Under the conditions I'm speaking of, nobody will have lost access to any earned powers. There were instances organizing rikti raid teams when there were NO 50's in the league and people were like "put a 50 in charge!". I would ask "OK didja bring one?" after verifying that they were on a team being run by the highest level player available.

 

I can be level 25 as a league leader and a 50 can be the lead of team 2+ just fine. 

 

I've been in leagues like that and it works well. As long as you have good league leader with an understanding of the mechanics it's not a problem. I was in a league a few days ago with a level 35 leader who did exactly that. They moved people about so the lowbies were in their team.

[srmalloy]

20 hours ago, Krimson said:

Conversely, if I show up with a 50 to a GM fight, I am not joining anyone's league or team. I'm not fond of suddenly becoming level 14 in the middle of a fight, so I remove the option for that to happen. 

I do that unless the character doesn't have the badge for that GM (Babbage, Kronos, Kraken, Eochai, etc.) and I don't think I can make up enough damage solo to earn the badge. Otherwise, there's no real benefit to joining a league or team,  and putting a flashback on hold to LRT to another zone to help take down a GM wouldn't let me join their team/league anyway.

[Krimson]

1 minute ago, srmalloy said:

I do that unless the character doesn't have the badge for that GM (Babbage, Kronos, Kraken, Eochai, etc.) and I don't think I can make up enough damage solo to earn the badge. Otherwise, there's no real benefit to joining a league or team,  and putting a flashback on hold to LRT to another zone to help take down a GM wouldn't let me join their team/league anyway.

Yeah I'm never worried about doing 10% of the damage on my toons. I'll get badges if I want them. 

[Snokle]

I know during the MS event there were a couple of people who did wonders setting up leagues and going.

 

The problem I saw was the amount of people not willing do form after a full announcement was done. I was in a low level zone at that time, I think my toon was 40, and I have some mild experience doing leagues for other GMs and some trials.

 

But that was a crap show, with people crying immediately that they are not 50 as they join the league as I am trying to move people around to get a 50 on each team and balance it out.

 

Then some leaders became unresponsive and others just went their own direction. The league thing can be cumbersome, but that made me stay away from doing league events going forward, as the rewards were not worth the hassle for me.