Remove Domination's cast time

[Luminara]

When was the last time a blaster had to pause to activate Defiance?  How frequently does a stalker have to interrupt his/her attack chain and wait while Assassination activates?  At what time has a tanker had to stop to turn on Gauntlet, or brute Fury?  Does Scourge require a break in activity before it's functional?  Hell, the only other manually activated inherent in the game is Vulnerability, and that doesn't have a cast time.

 

Set Domination's cast time to 0, like every other archetype's inherent.  1.32s wasted activating Domination every 60-200s isn't balancing the power, it's not giving NPCs a tactical advantage that they can leverage, it's just making the archetype more annoying to play and distracting the player from the game itself, forcing him/her to stare at an icon instead of everything else happening.

 

We build attack chains so we don't have to stare at icons, so we can just press keys and watch the pretty, pretty light show.  Watching the UI instead of the game is boring.  Losing Domination because we were playing the game is infuriating.  Penalizing players for playing is counter-productive and counter-intuitive.  So get rid of the cast time.  Burn it.  It's bad.

[biostem]

OK, but only if they make it ignore recharge reduction bonuses.  🤣

Edited April 26 by biostem

[Saiyajinzoningen]

Hi @Luminara

can you explain what the problem is? 

have you tried placing domination on auto? 

I'm not being facetious I'm genuinely stupid 

can you elaborate on how you want this inherent power to work?

 

[Luminara]

28 minutes ago, biostem said:

OK, but only if they make it ignore recharge reduction bonuses.  🤣

 

Are you implying that Domination's recharge time is balanced by distracting the player from the game?

 

Because that would imply that any power's recharge time could be fairly balanced by having a cat who wants attention, or needing a drink of water, or having to go to the bathroom.  And that would be... stupid.

[Luminara]

4 minutes ago, Saiyajinzoningen said:

Hi @Luminara

can you explain what the problem is?

 

Powers with cast times can't activate while another power is animating, even if they're set to auto.

[Greycat]

1 hour ago, Luminara said:

When was the last time a blaster had to pause to activate Defiance?  How frequently does a stalker have to interrupt his/her attack chain and wait while Assassination activates?  At what time has a tanker had to stop to turn on Gauntlet, or brute Fury?  Does Scourge require a break in activity before it's functional?  Hell, the only other manually activated inherent in the game is Vulnerability, and that doesn't have a cast time.

 

 

While, true, Gauntlet doesn't have an activation time, the tanker has to be in range of their enemies. Same with Fury - must be attacked/be attacking - or Scrapper crits.

Assassination, to really get the most out of it, requires you to be hidden (which can be taken away) and, ideally, use your assassination *strike,* which does have a multi second windup time.

Scourge requires the enemies to already be damaged to start activating.

Containment requires the target to be under specific types of control, so you or someone else *has* to have put them in an immobilize or hold first.

Defiance spends time stacking with powers from the secondary set.

Masterminds don't have to do anything, granted... but their pets have to be in range of Supremacy for it to do any good.

 

Meanwhile, Domination gives mez resistance and +mag. Doesn't sound like a bad tradeoff for a quick boom-flash-go.

[Rudra]

28 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

Are you implying that Domination's recharge time is balanced by distracting the player from the game?

 

Because that would imply that any power's recharge time could be fairly balanced by having a cat who wants attention, or needing a drink of water, or having to go to the bathroom.  And that would be... stupid.

Well, to be fair, while not justification, it is the only AT inherent I can think of that is affected by recharge effects. Anyway, I think @biostem was just playing from the emoji at the end.

[PeregrineFalcon]

The other powers are passives so of course they don't have cast times. Domination is an active power and, given how powerful it is, it should have an cast time. This is better because it allows you to choose when to use it and it allows you to make it perma.

 

Of course Vulnerability should also have a cast time, but that's a whole different topic.

 

tl;dr:

[Luminara]

1 minute ago, Greycat said:

Meanwhile, Domination gives mez resistance and +mag. Doesn't sound like a bad tradeoff for a quick boom-flash-go.

 

Which is balanced by a 90s duration and 200s recharge time.

[Greycat]

4 minutes ago, Luminara said:

Which is balanced by a 90s duration and 200s recharge time.

 

With the recharge time shortened by being on a team *and* by global recharge.

[Luminara]

2 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

This is better because it allows you to choose when to use it and it allows you to make it perma.

 

Removing the cast time wouldn't make it an auto power, or remove the ability to select when to activate it.  It would still be a click with a 90s duration and 200s recharge time.

[Luminara]

3 minutes ago, Greycat said:

 

With the recharge time shortened by being on a team *and* by global recharge.

 

Domination's recharge time isn't affected by teammates.  Dominators receive a Rage bonus when teamed so they can build Domination faster, but the power can't be activated until the recharge time has elapsed, even if the bar is full.

[Greycat]

1 minute ago, Luminara said:

 

Domination's recharge time isn't affected by teammates.  Dominators receive a Rage bonus when teamed so they can build Domination faster, but the power can't be activated until the recharge time has elapsed, even if the bar is full.

Regardless, given just how much of a boost it gives dominators, it's still a perfectly fine tradeoff. In all the time I've played them, I can't think of a single instance where that second-and-a-sliver ended up making a whit of difference.

[Wavicle]

33 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

Powers with cast times can't activate while another power is animating, even if they're set to auto.

 

This is true of Vulnerability also. Removing Domination's cast time (something I don't object to) would not fix this.

OTHER powers can be cast during Vulnerability's animation. Not the other way around. Is that what you meant?

Edited April 26 by Wavicle

[PeregrineFalcon]

8 minutes ago, Luminara said:

Removing the cast time wouldn't make it an auto power, or remove the ability to select when to activate it.  It would still be a click with a 90s duration and 200s recharge time.

Ok, let me put it this way. Practiced Brawler (SR mez click) and Active Defense (Shield mez click) both have cast times. So why shouldn't Domination have a cast time?

 

Domination, when it's perma, can be blocked from reupping by attacks and it can interrupt your attack chain when in fires off in mid combat. Just like Practiced Brawler and Active Defense. Isn't that the real reason that you want the cast time removed?

[Luminara]

1 minute ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

Ok, let me put it this way. Practiced Brawler (SR mez click) and Active Defense (Shield mez click) both have cast times. So why shouldn't Domination have a cast time?

 

PB and AD aren't inherents.  How many times do you have to click Defiance in order to activate T1/T2 attacks through mez?

What?  None?  Well, it would seem that status protection isn't the defining factor for determining that something should have a cast time, wouldn't it.

 

11 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

Isn't that the real reason that you want the cast time removed?

 

Faintly, but not fully.  It's been itching in my mind for me for four years, but it's because of that constant niggling that I started looking at it more closely.  Why does it bother me?  I've built all of my dominators so well that Domination recharges in ~67s, so I have plenty of leeway for it to activate, but it still gets under my skin.  Why?

 

Because it forces the player to watch the UI, to pay attention to the icon, not to the game.  And the cast time is the root of that, because it's the cast time that necessitates monitoring the UI.  There's no tray with one slot that we can float next to the character's head so we don't have to look at an edge of the screen (yes, i tried a tray set to maximum transparency, and in different configurations, it was still extremely distracting).  There's no middle-of-screen warning that Domination is about to expire (not quite as likely to set me off as the tip notification spam did, but it would definitely put me on the warpath sooner or later).  There's no chat message, no unique sound at 10s... the only ways the game notifies the player that Domination is about to drop is the tiny blinking icon in the status window, and Domination being recharged, and if you're not staring at one or the other, you have no idea when to give Domination that 1.32s to activate.

 

When I build an attack chain, my goal is to set the game up so I can press keys without having to look at the icons.  Press 1, press 2 while 1 is activating, press 3 while 2 is activating, et cetera.  The UI is what I use to interface with the game, but it's not the part of the game I want to see.  The game is what's happening in the middle of the screen, not at the top, not at the right edge, not on the bottom edge, not on the left edge.  Watching my character's animations play.  Watching the graphical effects.  Watching enemy reactions.  Immersing myself in the game.

 

Domination breaks that by forcing my attention away from the center, by focusing my attention on the UI instead of the game.  I have to watch the Domination icon so I know when to react to that, rather than watching the Master of Death so I know when to react to him.  I have to watch the timer so I know when to interrupt my immersion, rather than watching my characters do their things and enjoying my immersion.

 

Yes, losing Domination because I scrapperlocked irritates me, but that's only my reaction to the problem, not the problem itself.  The problem is that the cast time on Domination mandates attention to the UI, not to the game.  It's contrary to the design of every other inherent (even Vulnerability, which has a giant fucking reticle that disappears when it expires, immediately informing the player of that expiration without requiring him/her to look at the UI), and it's contrary to the design of the game itself (we're supposed to be looking at our characters and the NPCs to know what's going on, that's why we have graphical effects like shields with downward chevrons to indicate Defense Debuffs and blackish-yellow stars circling for ToHit debuffs).

 

That 1.32s is where the problem hinges.  If it weren't there, the dominator archetype would be as immersive as all of the others.  But over and over again, no matter how well I build my dominators, I'm playing fucking UI Bingo instead of City of *.  The cast time isn't a balance point, it's a design failure, and it needs to be removed.

[PeregrineFalcon]

16 minutes ago, Luminara said:

Because it forces the player to watch the UI, to pay attention to the icon, not to the game.  And the cast time is the root of that, because it's the cast time that necessitates monitoring the UI.

Inherents or not, Practice Brawler and Active Defense cause the exact same issue and the exact same arguments were used by the players to try to convince the devs to convert them into toggles.

 

And, almost every power in this game has a recharge time. Looking at the UI to see if you can activate the power, if it's still recharging, or if it's not activating because you're held, is part of the game play. You think I love having to monitor my damage so that I don't Footstomp right after Rage has crashed? You think that I enjoy constantly looking at see if Hasten is back up so that I can activate it again?

 

Yes, having to constantly look at the UI is annoying. I agree with you on that. I would also argue that having to look at the UI is an intended part of the gameplay.

[SeraphimKensai]

3 hours ago, biostem said:

OK, but only if they make it ignore recharge reduction bonuses.  🤣

This confirms that you're a villain.

[biostem]

2 minutes ago, SeraphimKensai said:

This confirms that you're a villain.

But so are dominators, (at least, originally).

[Saiyajinzoningen]

ok so if the core issue isn't really the cast time &

there are other powers that suffer from this issue perhaps

a visual or audio cue 10 seconds before the buff ends

might make immersion easier?

 

 

[Luminara]

22 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

Inherents or not, Practice Brawler and Active Defense cause the exact same issue and the exact same arguments were used by the players to try to convince the devs to convert them into toggles.

 

You're not required to execute a number of attacks or use an alignment-restricted power to reactive them if they drop.  You don't have to do anything, you can stand there with your thumb up your ass and they'll recharge normally and be ready to use again at will.  It's a completely different set of requirements from what Domination currently imposes.

 

Nor do PB or AD represent archetype-defining or -shaping powers.  Click status protection powers are in a few melee archetype primaries/secondaries, not an inherent ability which affects every tanker, scrapper, brute, stalker, SoA, Dwarf-form Kheldian or Sentinel.  The fact that my Shield/Elec tanker has a click status protection power is utterly irrelevant to my Energy/Energy scrapper, or my Staff/Willpower brute, because those powers aren't impacting entire archetypes.  But I can't make any dominator that isn't affected by Domination's flawed design.

 

27 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

And, almost every power in this game has a recharge time. Looking at the UI to see if you can activate the power, if it's still recharging

53 minutes ago, Luminara said:

my goal is to set the game up so I can press keys without having to look at the icons.  Press 1, press 2 while 1 is activating, press 3 while 2 is activating, et cetera.  The UI is what I use to interface with the game, but it's not the part of the game I want to see.  The game is what's happening in the middle of the screen, not at the top, not at the right edge, not on the bottom edge, not on the left edge.  Watching my character's animations play.  Watching the graphical effects.  Watching enemy reactions.  Immersing myself in the game.

 

 

29 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

or if it's not activating because you're held, is part of the game play.

53 minutes ago, Luminara said:

that's why we have graphical effects like shields with downward chevrons to indicate Defense Debuffs and blackish-yellow stars circling for ToHit debuffs

 

 

35 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

You think I love having to monitor my damage so that I don't Footstomp right after Rage has crashed?

 

The Rage crash that the game signals to players graphically by turning off the "I'M A LIGHT BULB WHEEEEEEEEEEE!" graphic and replacing it with the Damage Debuff graphic (red-colored downward-pointing arrowheads), so they know what's happening without looking at the UI?

 

 

1 hour ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

You think that I enjoy constantly looking at see if Hasten is back up so that I can activate it again?

 

Do you spend a lot of time rebuilding the Hasten meter?  How much, on average?  Sixty seconds?  Ninety?  Three... hundred?  You can tell me, I promise not to laugh.

 

1 hour ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

Yes, having to constantly look at the UI is annoying. I agree with you on that. I would also argue that having to look at the UI is an intended part of the gameplay.

 

At the market.  In a league, when players have to be moved around to different teams.  When you're accepting a mission.

 

Not in the middle of combat.  For fuck's sake, there isn't even a status bar for NPCs, we're utterly dependent on graphical effects and animations to know what our powers are doing to them, so the "UI is part of the game" argument doesn't cut it.

[FupDup]

2 hours ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

Inherents or not, Practice Brawler and Active Defense cause the exact same issue and the exact same arguments were used by the players to try to convince the devs to convert them into toggles.

I don't play Doms so I don't really have a horse in this race here, but clicky mezz protection buttons aren't a good comparison because they actually have some situational advantages over toggles (can't be disabled by sapping, stackable protection, lower end cost over time).

 

Domination doesn't really come with a trade-off or consideration like that. It's kind of just an old school design. 

[PeregrineFalcon]

26 minutes ago, Luminara said:

The Rage crash that the game signals to players graphically by turning off the "I'M A LIGHT BULB WHEEEEEEEEEEE!" graphic and replacing it with the Damage Debuff graphic (red-colored downward-pointing arrowheads), so they know what's happening without looking at the UI?

I actually did not know that there's a damage debuff graphic. I'm red color deficient so that's probably why I can't see it.

 

 

32 minutes ago, Luminara said:

Not in the middle of combat.  For fuck's sake, there isn't even a status bar for NPCs, we're utterly dependent on graphical effects and animations to know what our powers are doing to them, so the "UI is part of the game" argument doesn't cut it.

There's no argument. The UI is part of the game, that's a fact. Why is there a countdown timer on my power icons showing exactly how many seconds until the power will be recharged and available for use again if I'm not supposed to look at it?

 

I do agree with you on this: If Vulnerability doesn't have a cast time then Domination shouldn't either.

 

Anyway, have a great weekend.

[Rudra]

2 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

42 minutes ago, Luminara said:

The Rage crash that the game signals to players graphically by turning off the "I'M A LIGHT BULB WHEEEEEEEEEEE!" graphic and replacing it with the Damage Debuff graphic (red-colored downward-pointing arrowheads), so they know what's happening without looking at the UI?

I actually did not know that there's a damage debuff graphic. I'm red color deficient so that's probably why I can't see it.

Don't feel bad. I'm not red color deficient and I never noticed it either.

[Glacier Peak]

Nobody is going to mention that Kheldians don't even get to use their Inherent unless they're on a team? Come on!