MsSmart Posted May 12 Share Posted May 12 In the old days, I get it, the need to go all over the zones was a must for developers in order to make TFs to take longer, that is it required lots of unsolicited travel, and thus the basis for what it is known as time sinks. Today, the game is free, players play for the fun of it, so as a result one must question the need for time sinks. The simple answer is, there is no need, time sinks and irrelevant travel are now boring and irritating. So why not redo the TFs where they are executed in the zone they are initiated at, for example Manticore would have all missions done at Bricks. Citadel would have them all in Talos, Synapse would be sky only, etc. Hugs Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greycat Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 Because not all TFs have stories that are told in one zone. 5 1 Still not particularly fond of certain segments of this community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Player2 Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 4 hours ago, Greycat said: Because not all TFs have stories that are told in one zone. Stories? Ain't nobody got time for that. 3 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shin Magmus Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 TFs are mostly fine the way they are. Because of QoL feature creep: there are so many "cheater" ways to fast travel in this game now that a lot of players reflexively use Ouro/TT/Long-Range-Teleporter/SG Bases and literally do not know how to manually travel to their destination. In addition, all actual travel powers are roughly 35% faster (when enhanced) than they were in the past with the exception of Teleport. I think Teleport's range was not buffed, but it's by far the fastest travel in a straight line regardless. You can get from Point A to Point B so quickly that the idea that you actually "travelled" is hard to believe IMO. I just don't see the issue I guess. TFs that *actually* involve a lot of travel (such as Dr. Quarterfield) routinely take 1/4th the time on Homecoming that they took on Live when they were first added. What are you suggesting exactly, moving all the doors for such a TF to be the same rock in The Shadow Shard? 4 Choose your weapon: Okay, I choose words. I do not believe the false notion that "your ignorance is just as good as my knowledge." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lusiphur Malache Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 One of my favorite qol in Praetoria is the mission giver is also the door. Makes talk toos easier, but I guess that is native to there and not easily implemented red or blue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc_Scorpion Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 1 hour ago, Shin Magmus said: You can get from Point A to Point B so quickly that the idea that you actually "travelled" is hard to believe IMO. I just don't see the issue I guess. TFs that *actually* involve a lot of travel (such as Dr. Quarterfield) routinely take 1/4th the time on Homecoming that they took on Live when they were first added. What are you suggesting exactly, moving all the doors for such a TF to be the same rock in The Shadow Shard? I sometimes get the impression that there's a lot of people who think the entire City (mission doors, contacts, etc...) should be roughly 1/4-1/3 the size of Ouroboros. Otherwise, yeah, I agree. It simply doesn't take that long to traverse to the City. 1 2 Unofficial Homecoming Wiki - Paragon Wiki updated for Homecoming! Your contributions are welcome! (Not the owner/operator - just a fan who wants to spread the word.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 2 hours ago, Shin Magmus said: TFs are mostly fine the way they are. Because of QoL feature creep: there are so many "cheater" ways to fast travel in this game now that a lot of players reflexively use Ouro/TT/Long-Range-Teleporter/SG Bases and literally do not know how to manually travel to their destination. In addition, all actual travel powers are roughly 35% faster (when enhanced) than they were in the past with the exception of Teleport. I think Teleport's range was not buffed, but it's by far the fastest travel in a straight line regardless. You can get from Point A to Point B so quickly that the idea that you actually "travelled" is hard to believe IMO. I just don't see the issue I guess. TFs that *actually* involve a lot of travel (such as Dr. Quarterfield) routinely take 1/4th the time on Homecoming that they took on Live when they were first added. What are you suggesting exactly, moving all the doors for such a TF to be the same rock in The Shadow Shard? Some people are so used to instinctively popping open a portal, I’ve seen them do it for the “talk to so and so” and even missions in the same zone, a couple hundred feet away 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shin Magmus Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 22 minutes ago, Ghost said: Some people are so used to instinctively popping open a portal, I’ve seen them do it for the “talk to so and so” and even missions in the same zone, a couple hundred feet away This always makes me laugh. It's also funny when they do a SG Base power even though the next mission is in Talos or IP: and an Ouro portal takes you right there in just as many clicks but less movement. Choose your weapon: Okay, I choose words. I do not believe the false notion that "your ignorance is just as good as my knowledge." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tidge Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 Zone-to-zone travel has become so easy, the only time old-school "visit random zone(s)" bothers me is when I am soloing some of the OG blue content that isn't a TF. One of the arcs that really gets me is Gordon Stacy's: at one point he has you simply traveling between click contacts in Skyway City... and elsewhere. The infodumps are important for the Lore, but in play it is extremely tedious. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 2 hours ago, Shin Magmus said: This always makes me laugh. It's also funny when they do a SG Base power even though the next mission is in Talos or IP: and an Ouro portal takes you right there in just as many clicks but less movement. On at least 1 occasion I’ve seen someone quickly drop an TT outside a cave we just cleared, only for the next mish to be in the same cave. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shin Magmus Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 16 minutes ago, Ghost said: On at least 1 occasion I’ve seen someone quickly drop an TT outside a cave we just cleared, only for the next mish to be in the same cave. Citadel TF always starts that exact way. I know things about the game... I play it a fair bit. I actually do try to warn people now to not waste their TT. 2 Choose your weapon: Okay, I choose words. I do not believe the false notion that "your ignorance is just as good as my knowledge." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemming Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 I would not mind it if TFs like Citadel didn't just bounce between IP & Talos for near every mission. I also resent Indigo & Crimson's deliveries to each other missions. Could you not be in the middle of nowhere then? There's probably a nice coffee shop near the train or ferry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudra Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 (edited) 5 hours ago, Lusiphur Malache said: One of my favorite qol in Praetoria is the mission giver is also the door. Makes talk toos easier, but I guess that is native to there and not easily implemented red or blue. It's been a while since I last played through gold side, but I'm pretty sure that isn't the case. While yes, there are missions that launch through the contact as if the contact was a door, which red side and blue side also get, most missions have you go to an actual door. (Edit: And gold side doesn't have TFs anyway.) Edited May 13 by Rudra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MsSmart Posted May 13 Author Share Posted May 13 (edited) 18 hours ago, Greycat said: Because not all TFs have stories that are told in one zone. Change the story, it is artificially cobbled up to force the travel, so now artificially cobble it up to not Edited May 13 by MsSmart 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MsSmart Posted May 13 Author Share Posted May 13 8 hours ago, Shin Magmus said: TFs are mostly fine the way they are. Because of QoL feature creep: there are so many "cheater" ways to fast travel in this game now that a lot of players reflexively use Ouro/TT/Long-Range-Teleporter/SG Bases and literally do not know how to manually travel to their destination. In addition, all actual travel powers are roughly 35% faster (when enhanced) than they were in the past with the exception of Teleport. I think Teleport's range was not buffed, but it's by far the fastest travel in a straight line regardless. You can get from Point A to Point B so quickly that the idea that you actually "travelled" is hard to believe IMO. I just don't see the issue I guess. TFs that *actually* involve a lot of travel (such as Dr. Quarterfield) routinely take 1/4th the time on Homecoming that they took on Live when they were first added. What are you suggesting exactly, moving all the doors for such a TF to be the same rock in The Shadow Shard? It does not change the fact that inter map trave is a time sink, the additional travel powers does not fix it, just make it less stupid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akisan Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 8 hours ago, Lusiphur Malache said: One of my favorite qol in Praetoria is the mission giver is also the door. Makes talk toos easier, but I guess that is native to there and not easily implemented red or blue. Oddly enough, this kind of thing bugs me. Part of it has always felt like the game is trying to help me be lazy, which isn't helped by some of them being really flimsy excuses, and part of it is that I really like travelling around the city. I guess it's the difference between going to a location to get something done, vs. just hearing "okay, you're now at that location". It does some really not nice things to the immersion for me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Player2 Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 2 hours ago, Clave Dark 5 said: Eh, let' em waste it, they need to learn somehow. So what you're saying is that we need an additional team transport power for people who need to learn a lesson? Will it take the form of a short bus? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akisan Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 1 hour ago, Player2 said: So what you're saying is that we need an additional team transport power for people who need to learn a lesson? Will it take the form of a short bus? It randomly adds either a dunce cap or "the cone of shame" to the offender's costume for 1 hour. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shin Magmus Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 Look, I don't know about you, but I'd kill for a "cone of shame" head detail, or chest detail if that's where it needs to be implemented. Imagine a Werewolf costume but the lower body is "mummified" bandages and he has a cone around his neck. Make him a Brute and call him "neutered". 1 1 Choose your weapon: Okay, I choose words. I do not believe the false notion that "your ignorance is just as good as my knowledge." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Player2 Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 45 minutes ago, Akisan said: It randomly adds either a dunce cap or "the cone of shame" to the offender's costume for 1 hour. 24 minutes ago, Shin Magmus said: Look, I don't know about you, but I'd kill for a "cone of shame" head detail, or chest detail if that's where it needs to be implemented. Imagine a Werewolf costume but the lower body is "mummified" bandages and he has a cone around his neck. Make him a Brute and call him "neutered". A dunce cap hat would also be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duckbutler Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 15 hours ago, MsSmart said: Change the story, it is artificially cobbled up to force the travel, so now artificially cobble it up to not I think it would be more satisfying to give the story a facelift. Consider the original Positron task force vs the current one and the old Maria Jenkins arc vs the post Going Rogue version. In its current state, the Positron TF moves you around a bit, but that movement feels necessary if you're following along with what's happening in the mission briefings. You get little cutscenes so that everyone in the group has an idea what's happening, plus they get to see it rather than merely read a description of it. With Maria Jenkins, it's the same story but all the maps got updated to use the new tilesets, the new villain groups, and new versions of the AVs. Now, I'm not suggesting something quite as radical as the MJ arc's update. That's pretty unrealistic. But maybe add a few things to help with the immersion like a cutscene here or there and eliminate some things that break the immersion like Citadel's back to back defeat all missions from the same door. The travel time would be more forgivable if it felt less artifical. And there's always team teleports for those who've invested in them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tidge Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 What I like about the Citadel TF: Because of its level, and the numerous 'defeat all' missions, I find it is an excellent way to measure the performance of a character at 'natural' level. To offer some perspective, the Yin TF IMO more obviously favors exemplared (because slots, set bonuses) whereas by the time players can do Citadel they really should have all their tricks and decent slotting. 1 hour ago, Duckbutler said: I think it would be more satisfying to give the story a facelift. Now, I'm not suggesting something quite as radical as the MJ arc's update. That's pretty unrealistic. But maybe add a few things to help with the immersion like a cutscene here or there and eliminate some things that break the immersion like Citadel's back to back defeat all missions from the same door. The travel time would be more forgivable if it felt less artifical. And there's always team teleports for those who've invested in them. What I find annoying about the Citadel TF: The back-and-forth between zones obviously. However I am more peeved that it is pretty much 'all caves, all the time', along with a change-of-zones delivery and a meaningless open-world hunt. I am also slightly bothered by the appearance of Warwolves and Vampyrs in Vandal's arc. Vandal is supposed to be one of the OG Council 'tech' guys, right? My first guess at an outline for changes: 1) Start with a couple of 'defeat all' in IP caves, to preserve the OG feel. 2) A mission on a ship in IP (to discover/destroy robot parts) 3) An instanced 'rescue' of Fareed Abdullah (so no 'delivery' followed by a cave) with combat 4) An instanced open world map to defeat council and their robots (on a test run) 5) Invade Vandal's base: sabotage generators, parts, fight AV The in-mission changes I would prefer: New variants of Mekmen, Hoverbots, and Warcry to fill a 'difficulty' role currently filled by the Warwolves and Vampyr. I don't object to one of the non-robotic Elite bosses being Nictus-adjacent, I just feel like the emphasis should be on the robots and mechanized weapons, or tech-augmented council minions, not nictus-infused minions. I'd also suggest that later missions trend slightly away from 'defeat every villain in every nook and cranny of a random map' to specific maps with missions that spawn waves of attacking robots. I'd supplement more than one of the underground bases with turrets. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luminara Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 Despite the assertions made in this thread, the reason for content crossing zones was not to artificially extend the duration of said content by 2-3 measly minutes, but to give purpose to travel powers. We had to wait until level 14, and select a prerequisite, to acquire a travel power, and with Cryptic being so intent on preventing travel powers from being used in combat that they first saddled them with 25% -ToHit, then implemented travel suppression, the game itself needed to justify travel powers as something more than a cosmetic or thematic choice. Multi-zone content, in both arcs and *Fs/Trials, was how that was done. Sure, there are faster ways to reach missions now, and newer content is more likely to be focused in one zone, and there are even some people who prefer to sit in one room and do everything, but a lot of us like having travel powers and having those travel powers serve a purpose in the game. Having a reason to take and use travel powers is a core aspect of what makes Co* what it is, and if everything is consolidated into individual zones, travel powers themselves might as well be removed from the game and replaced with costume options. 2 1 Get busy living... or get busy dying. That's goddamn right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greycat Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 (edited) On 5/13/2024 at 2:51 PM, MsSmart said: Change the story, it is artificially cobbled up to force the travel, so now artificially cobble it up to not No. "Oh god, why did they have to go EVERYWHERE on all those PLANETS on star wars? Why couldn't they just have had the whole thing on that desert place? They could've redone the story and probably saved a good half the movie!" Edited May 15 by Greycat 1 Still not particularly fond of certain segments of this community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biostem Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 37 minutes ago, Greycat said: "Oh god, why did they have to go EVERYWHERE on all those PLANETS on star wars? Why couldn't they just have had the whole thing on that desert place? They could've redone the story and probably saved a good half the movie!" But but if I have to wait more than 30 seconds for that next dopamine hit, I won't be able to cope! Seriously, stop trying to turn CoH into Fortnite! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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