Homecoming Server Update (June 26th): Donation Window Poll

[justicebeliever]

Here's another idea which I'm using myself.

 

I've decided what I would be comfortable donating on a monthly basis indefinitely. I didn't get to donate in May so I set the amount aside. I didn't get to donate in June either so I set that aside, so when July's window opens, I will have 3 months-worth of donation committed. If I still don't make it, then August's will be 4 months, and so on until I finally get to donate, however long that takes.

 

+1 Inf

[tsalaroth]

Here's another idea which I'm using myself.

 

I've decided what I would be comfortable donating on a monthly basis indefinitely. I didn't get to donate in May so I set the amount aside. I didn't get to donate in June either so I set that aside, so when July's window opens, I will have 3 months-worth of donation committed. If I still don't make it, then August's will be 4 months, and so on until I finally get to donate, however long that takes.

 

+1 Inf

 

Ditto.  This is a great idea.

 

My 2 cents, which will look a lot like justicebeliever's two cents:

 

Instead of asking folks to do more unpaid work so one can feel better about donating (not a judgement of feeling better), why not donate to a charitable cause in the name of the homecoming team?

 

Or like stated above, save the money? Heck, if you put it in a savings account that accrues monthly pro-rated / annually-accrued interest rate (rare, but they do still exist!), you're making some extra scratch for the few months you hold on to it - which you can turn around and add to your donation amount, if the timing's right.

[Maldroth]

I've been able to donate twice and the way I see it is I'm helping not just for myself but others so I'm not going to sweat it if I miss a donation period as long as a collective we meet our operating costs and keep everyone playing. :) I'm more than happy to donate for the others that can't for various reasons.

[Burnt Toast]

Your cynicism is off-putting to say the least. I don't want to feel special, but I do want to feel like I am contributing to a game that I have loved for 15+ years. If I do not get a chance to donate I will simply pledge what I would have spent on donations on November 2, 2019 at ExtraLife... There was nothing nefarious with my suggestion aside from letting those who have not been able to get a chance to donate... have a chance. Your negativity is ironic since every person I know that claims to be fabulous has had a personality to match...until now.

 

 

Apparently it is, at least for you. Because you somehow feel cheated and not-special if you can't donate. As long as they get the money they need it doesn't matter if you personally (or anyone for that matter) gets to donate or not.

 

If you're really insistent upon giving money away, take the money you would have donated and give it to a worthwhile charity who needs it.

 

It's not about a competition.. RIF. It is about those who want to donate, but who can't make it in the 30 minute window it takes. It's about wanting to show our appreciation. Not everyone can sit by their computer waiting on a window of 30 minutes - between work and family it's just not possible. We would just like to be able to show our appreciation by being able to donate. Reading is fundamental.

 

This does absolutely nothing for those who want to donate but can't be online in that half hour. You need a different system - like one that caps per person donations so that (OH NO) the window can be open longer. So irritating that I can't show my support every month because the window is only open like 30-45 minutes. I get you don't want to make money and only cover cots, but if people were limited to $10-$20 that would allow more people to donate. Sure it will take a little longer, but it will also make a lot more people feel good about supporting Homecoming.

 

So not even gonna bother because voting because my schedule is wonky and more than likely whatever time is picked... I won't be able to get on quick enough. Sigh.

 

Dude, it's not a competition. Chill out.

[justicebeliever]

... I don't want to feel special, but I do want to feel like I am contributing to a game that I have loved for 15+ years. If I do not get a chance to donate I will simply pledge what I would have spent on donations on November 2, 2019 at ExtraLife...

 

Burnt Toast - I was just musing in another thread about the difficulties HC would have in getting legitimate non-profit status. 

 

But what if every month HC simply doubled their goal, and gave the amount they don’t need to charity?  So if the operating expenses were $7K, they would keep the donations open until they raised $14K, and they would donate the other $7K to charity.

 

This would solve two problems - how to define themselves as a non-profit, and give more people a chance to contribute.

 

I said double the goal as a strawman, but it doesn’t have to be that high.  And they could have some creative contest each month to have the playerbase determine the charity

 

+1 for sparking those brain cells Burnt Toast.

[Oklahoman]

Maybe there's a reason we can't do this, or at least not do it now... but why can't we simply multiply the monthly anticipated expense by 12 and just do 1 fundraising effort to cover for a year? Non-profit organizations typically have just 1 big fundraiser each year, though they may have other smaller ones throughout the year to augment operating costs or add new services.

 

Perhaps some are still nervous the game isn't "here to stay" - which I get - but when we solicit the annual donation we just say that if anything happens the excess funds are dispersed to Doctors Without Borders (or whatever) after all final bills are paid.

[Jonah42175]

I don't think they can do that because where would you store the funds? If the LLC opens a bank account to hold the reserve cash for the rest of the year, that leaves them open to being attacked legally. Also, costs can change from month-to-month so there's no real way to forecast exactly how much is going to be needed to cover the entire year.

[justicebeliever]

Maybe there's a reason we can't do this, or at least not do it now... but why can't we simply multiply the monthly anticipated expense by 12 and just do 1 fundraising effort to cover for a year? Non-profit organizations typically have just 1 big fundraiser each year, though they may have other smaller ones throughout the year to augment operating costs or add new services.

 

Perhaps some are still nervous the game isn't "here to stay" - which I get - but when we solicit the annual donation we just say that if anything happens the excess funds are dispersed to Doctors Without Borders (or whatever) after all final bills are paid.

 

I think that HC is trying to stay out of NCSoft's crosshairs.  And one BIG way to do that is to run as lean as possible so there is no chance of it being perceived as profitable...So "scraping by" month to month is pretty lean.  And HC is not a non-profit yet...

[Captain Fabulous]

And yet another post where you claim you don't want to feel special, but then outline how you're upset because you can't feel special. OK dude, whatever works for you.

 

You're welcome for the donation suggestion, btw.

 

Not everyone can see true fabulousness. It's a truly special gift that works in mysterious ways. Just nod, tip the hat, and move on.

 

Your cynicism is off-putting to say the least. I don't want to feel special, but I do want to feel like I am contributing to a game that I have loved for 15+ years. If I do not get a chance to donate I will simply pledge what I would have spent on donations on November 2, 2019 at ExtraLife... There was nothing nefarious with my suggestion aside from letting those who have not been able to get a chance to donate... have a chance. Your negativity is ironic since every person I know that claims to be fabulous has had a personality to match...until now.

 

 

Apparently it is, at least for you. Because you somehow feel cheated and not-special if you can't donate. As long as they get the money they need it doesn't matter if you personally (or anyone for that matter) gets to donate or not.

 

If you're really insistent upon giving money away, take the money you would have donated and give it to a worthwhile charity who needs it.

 

It's not about a competition.. RIF. It is about those who want to donate, but who can't make it in the 30 minute window it takes. It's about wanting to show our appreciation. Not everyone can sit by their computer waiting on a window of 30 minutes - between work and family it's just not possible. We would just like to be able to show our appreciation by being able to donate. Reading is fundamental.

 

This does absolutely nothing for those who want to donate but can't be online in that half hour. You need a different system - like one that caps per person donations so that (OH NO) the window can be open longer. So irritating that I can't show my support every month because the window is only open like 30-45 minutes. I get you don't want to make money and only cover cots, but if people were limited to $10-$20 that would allow more people to donate. Sure it will take a little longer, but it will also make a lot more people feel good about supporting Homecoming.

 

So not even gonna bother because voting because my schedule is wonky and more than likely whatever time is picked... I won't be able to get on quick enough. Sigh.

 

Dude, it's not a competition. Chill out.

[Ironblade]

You could start at some particular time, like midnight UTC, and then move it forward 3 hours each month.  That way, every region will get to have a turn at the donation window being most convenient for them.

[Jeuraud]

I think turning CoHH into a non-profit would be the best way to stay out of NC Soft's sights, and here is a website for creating non-profits, with flying people on the cover no less  :).

 

https://www.legalzoom.com/sem/biz/nonprofit.html?kid=_k_EAIaIQobChMIprDV5_eP4wIVMxh9Ch0kFggrEAAYASAAEgLopfD_BwE_k_&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=creating%20a%20nonprofit&utm_content=324555852912&utm_campaign=BIZ%20|%20Non-Profit&kpid=go_626937746_28876492687_324555852912_kwd-3801132552_c&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIprDV5_eP4wIVMxh9Ch0kFggrEAAYASAAEgLopfD_BwE

 

I have no fricken clue if they are worth the money, or how much trouble it would be, or how much it would cost overall, but costs should not be an issue this early into the release of CoHH. 99.9% of the complaining on this thread is about not being able to donate to CoHH, which I agree with.

 

As for the time, I suggest limiting the amount, and open it up on the first day of the month for 24 hours, or until you reach your goal. I was figuring that this was how it was going to happen anyways and was ready to jump in on July 1st.

[Healix]

As for the time, I suggest limiting the amount, and open it up on the first day of the month for 24 hours, or until you reach your goal

 

This makes the most sense to me of all.

 

[Zep]

I personally like the idea of some soft of pledge/sub system when/if the NCSoft issues are resolved.

 

Until then in accrual based accounting anything listing future monies coming in is added to the bottom line.... thus it could legally be considered income even though it is just a list of who would like to give some money. If the whole idea is to avoid earning money we should avoid any kind of pledge.

[justicebeliever]

I think turning CoHH into a non-profit would be the best way to stay out of NC Soft's sights, and here is a website for creating non-profits, with flying people on the cover no less  :).

 

https://www.legalzoom.com/sem/biz/nonprofit.html?kid=_k_EAIaIQobChMIprDV5_eP4wIVMxh9Ch0kFggrEAAYASAAEgLopfD_BwE_k_&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=creating%20a%20nonprofit&utm_content=324555852912&utm_campaign=BIZ%20|%20Non-Profit&kpid=go_626937746_28876492687_324555852912_kwd-3801132552_c&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIprDV5_eP4wIVMxh9Ch0kFggrEAAYASAAEgLopfD_BwE

 

I have no fricken clue if they are worth the money, or how much trouble it would be, or how much it would cost overall, but costs should not be an issue this early into the release of CoHH. 99.9% of the complaining on this thread is about not being able to donate to CoHH, which I agree with.

 

As for the time, I suggest limiting the amount, and open it up on the first day of the month for 24 hours, or until you reach your goal. I was figuring that this was how it was going to happen anyways and was ready to jump in on July 1st.

 

The challenge isn't in organizing as a non-profit.  There are many online tools to help with this...it isn't really difficult.

 

What's going to be difficult is finding a legitimate purpose that qualifies as a non-profit.  On the surface, it's almost like a neighborhood association or golf club, which is a 501©(7).  Unfortunately two requirements for an association are opportunities for the entire membership to meet face to face (really hard for an online group) and membership must not be open to the general public (impossible given the current model).  So there goes the easy way

 

When most people think of a non-profit, they think of a charity, a 501©(3), but that requires we fall into a lawful (iffy) exempt purpose that supports:

charitable, religious, educational, scientific, literary, testing for public safety, fostering national or international amateur sports competition, and preventing cruelty to children or animals

And we don't fit any of those categories cleanly...

 

So that leaves just a few options -

1.) Stay as is (for profit) and increase monthly goals to pay corporate taxes

2.) Hold an annual convention (super costly) and restrict membership

3.) Shift the model to be a charity + private server hosting...the charity part gets us to the 501©(3), but I am not sure how far the IRS would really let the "+ private server hosting" be included in that model...And I mean, I really don't know how far the IRS would stretch...

 

For both 1+3, the monthly goals would have to increase (to either cover the taxes or the $$ for charity).  For me, I'd pick option 3 - if we are going to have to give more, why not make part of that help a worthy cause...

 

We could have fun costume contests, PVP battles, etc, where the winner each month determines the worthy cause...

[Saikochoro]

I honestly think you need to setup a Patreon or some other sort of system that people can donate to, and you post weekly of how much is sitting in this account, and if there is roll over then people can chose not to donate as much for the following month, or if they want to donate more so that they know their donation is going to last a while.

 

Whatever the solution regard timing window, it doesn't matter, as long as those who donated DONT get special perks/treatment in game because there are those of us who have wanted to donate but couldn't because you reached your maximum donation cap.

 

just my 2 cents.

 

I’m pretty sure their goal is to only collect their budgeted amount to make it pretty much impossible to turn a profit. Any system that allows them to collect over their target amount puts them in a precarious position. Even a pledge system is questionable for the same reason.

 

I think what they are doing now is for the best even if not all can donate.

[Saikochoro]

For those that can't seem to catch a donation window and would still want to contribute, is it possible for you to Paypal (or your money transfer method of choice) your donation to a friend who CAN make that window, and then they could do it for you?  At the moment, there really isn't a better solution that will satisfy everyone since they're trying to stay away from gathering too much money and garnering the wrong attention, so it's time to find other ways to satisfy your desire to help.  Maybe donate that money to a charity in CoH's name.  It seems we're complaining about there being too much money donated (which triggers the cutoff), when that should be at the bottom of things to worry about.

 

Honestly, I like the idea of donating to a charity in place of HC. It’s obvious that the supply of money is much greater than the demand from HC at the moment. That may change in the future. In the meantime there is always some other worthy cause that is always in need of help.

[Saikochoro]

Your cynicism is off-putting to say the least. I don't want to feel special, but I do want to feel like I am contributing to a game that I have loved for 15+ years. If I do not get a chance to donate I will simply pledge what I would have spent on donations on November 2, 2019 at ExtraLife... There was nothing nefarious with my suggestion aside from letting those who have not been able to get a chance to donate... have a chance. Your negativity is ironic since every person I know that claims to be fabulous has had a personality to match...until now.

 

 

Apparently it is, at least for you. Because you somehow feel cheated and not-special if you can't donate. As long as they get the money they need it doesn't matter if you personally (or anyone for that matter) gets to donate or not.

 

If you're really insistent upon giving money away, take the money you would have donated and give it to a worthwhile charity who needs it.

 

It's not about a competition.. RIF. It is about those who want to donate, but who can't make it in the 30 minute window it takes. It's about wanting to show our appreciation. Not everyone can sit by their computer waiting on a window of 30 minutes - between work and family it's just not possible. We would just like to be able to show our appreciation by being able to donate. Reading is fundamental.

 

This does absolutely nothing for those who want to donate but can't be online in that half hour. You need a different system - like one that caps per person donations so that (OH NO) the window can be open longer. So irritating that I can't show my support every month because the window is only open like 30-45 minutes. I get you don't want to make money and only cover cots, but if people were limited to $10-$20 that would allow more people to donate. Sure it will take a little longer, but it will also make a lot more people feel good about supporting Homecoming.

 

So not even gonna bother because voting because my schedule is wonky and more than likely whatever time is picked... I won't be able to get on quick enough. Sigh.

 

Dude, it's not a competition. Chill out.

 

I actually hadn’t heard of extralife before. That seems like a good choice.

[Saikochoro]

I personally like the idea of some soft of pledge/sub system when/if the NCSoft issues are resolved.

 

Until then in accrual based accounting anything listing future monies coming in is added to the bottom line.... thus it could legally be considered income even though it is just a list of who would like to give some money. If the whole idea is to avoid earning money we should avoid any kind of pledge.

 

I doubt they are doubt they are following GAAP/IFRS for accrual accounting and are most likely operating on a cash basis. In my experience, most small businesses are cash basis or modified cash basis. Even bigger businesses that have accounting teams often fail at following GAAP/IFRS properly as I discovered during my time as an auditor.

 

Sorry for the accounting tangent: end of story I agree with you. If they even appear to be making a profit it can draw unwanted attention. I think they are making the right call.

[squishy]

Maybe, setup several donation windows, with a limit for each, so each time zone gets a chance to contribute?

 

Like 1 or 2 in the USA, 1 or 2 in EU, and 1 or 2 windows in Asia?

 

Let's say you need 4000, setup 6 donations with a max of 666.666 for each, or something like that, and ask people not to donate too much, so more people can contribute?

Just so we can all add our little contribution and feel useful :D

[justicebeliever]

Maybe, setup several donation windows, with a limit for each, so each time zone gets a chance to contribute?

 

Like 1 or 2 in the USA, 1 or 2 in EU, and 1 or 2 windows in Asia?

 

Let's say you need 4000, setup 6 donations with a max of 666.666 for each, or something like that, and ask people not to donate too much, so more people can contribute?

Just so we can all add our little contribution and feel useful :D

 

Squishy, I know your heart is in the right place, and I have no doubt that Homecoming appreciates your desire to donate.

 

Right now there is no funding crisis, in a very short time they are able to collect all the money they need from the smallest possible amount of givers.  This has 2 benefits for Homecoming

1.) Helps them to stay out of NCSoft's crosshairs...Every additional attempt to collect funds raises more risk that'll be perceived by NCSoft as an income grab

2.) Requires the LEAST amount of effort by Homecoming to collect the funds.  This last one is important since Homecoming team are all volunteers, spending time away from their friends and family to support this.

 

Your solution (or similar ones) have been suggested multiple times...I would ask you, what problem does your solution solve?  And what are the costs of implementing it

1.) Problem - Since they don't need multiple windows to raise the money, it really only solves for making people feel better...which is good

2.) Cost - Multiple donation windows would require more effort and time from Homecoming to manage, and possible raises their legal exposure...

 

So now you have to ask yourself...Is it worth it for Homecoming to spend more of their volunteer time helping you to feel better about contributing?  I would suggest that the answer should be no.  In fact, I would feel worse, if they spent extra time away from their families just so I could have my opportunity to give, when they don't actually need the money

 

I'll end how I started...Your heart is in the right place, and wants to give back to a group of volunteers who brought back our city.  I appreciate it, and have no doubt Homecoming appreciates it.

[Jeuraud]

 

The challenge isn't in organizing as a non-profit.  There are many online tools to help with this...it isn't really difficult. What's going to be difficult is finding a legitimate purpose that qualifies as a non-profit.

 

Isn't the point of hiring somebody to help create the non-profit, is to remove the difficulty. Why else hire somebody? Funds are usually the limiting factor when trying to hire a Pro, but at this time, funds should not be an issue.

 

charitable, religious, educational, scientific, literary, testing for public safety, fostering national or international amateur sports competition, and preventing cruelty to children or animals

And we don't fit any of those categories cleanly...

 

Maybe somebody at Homecoming can register as a Minister/Priest/Etc. of the church/temple/etc. of CoHH, so that we may all learn to Grok CoH.

Maybe COHH can be declared an International Amateur E sports competition.

 

Finding a charity to give whatever profits are made above cost should not be that difficult.

 

Again, the difficult shit, is why you hire someone else.

[_NOPE_]

Finding a charity to give whatever profits are made above cost should not be that difficult.

 

I'm going for Child's Play, personally.

[justicebeliever]

 

The challenge isn't in organizing as a non-profit.  There are many online tools to help with this...it isn't really difficult. What's going to be difficult is finding a legitimate purpose that qualifies as a non-profit.

 

Isn't the point of hiring somebody to help create the non-profit, is to remove the difficulty. Why else hire somebody? Funds are usually the limiting factor when trying to hire a Pro, but at this time, funds should not be an issue.

 

I'm not sure exactly what you are saying...If Homecoming's "business model" prevents them for legally becoming something, how does a Pro fit into that?  Even if a "Pro" is willing to do something that is not exactly kosher, it won't absolve HC of any impact.

 

If you are saying, it's too soon to count them out because a Professional will likely have some advice that I'm not providing, then yes, I agree...this is not my deepest area of expertise and there may be legal angles I am missing...however, that doesn't stop needless speculation, a function that is a requirement on any forum...

 

 

[Impish Kat]

You could start at some particular time, like midnight UTC, and then move it forward 3 hours each month.  That way, every region will get to have a turn at the donation window being most convenient for them.

 

This is a simple and elegant solution.

[Sailboat]

Gentlemen, you can't fight in here!  This is the WAR ROOM!