Playing by Iron Man rules. Do I live or die?

[Force Redux]

He's dead, Jim.

[Ukase]

18 hours ago, twozerofoxtrot said:

If you were playing on a server with enforced Iron Man rules as part of the coding, you'd have been kicked to the character screen and your character would be deleted for you in a short amount of time.

 

Take that for what it is.

Does such a place exist?!? Details please. 

[twozerofoxtrot]

31 minutes ago, Ukase said:

Does such a place exist?!? Details please. 

 

Not for CoH, sorry. I was referring to other MMOs that run Hardcore or Iron Man rules.

[Yomo Kimyata]

I thought Iron Man rules were that you did a shot of vodka after every mob?!?

[Doomguide2005]

21 hours ago, Troo said:

Sorry, any debt = loss of character and all resources.

 

Rules for the Iron Man Challenge

1. Start with a newly created character.
2. May team with other Iron Man Challenge participants.
3. May purchase upgrades (inspirations and enhancements) with money earned by doing missions or by own means.
4. May use buffs and temps acquired through game play.
5. No Power Leveling. No outside funding or items.
6. No P2W/Start items. No SG buffs or empowe
7. If your character dies for any reason they are to be deleted immediately.
   • All resources from the character are lost.

Feel free to add to or revise as needed.

     The Iron Man/Hardcore rules dedicated SG I played on Live these were the rules except rule 7.  You were expelled or quit the SG if you did not wish to delete.

     I suspect if they had existed when the SG was active restrictions might have been placed on using merits for only the direct purchase of IOs or some other limitation (no converters to Inf etc).  It is way, way too easy using merits to otherwise accumulate Inf.

 

 

[Greycat]

If you went to 0 health, even if you rezzed a second later, you're dead if you're doing iron man.

(I have no reason to worry about "gave inspirations to others" - after all, what are bodies for if not to be looted as needed? Er.... I mean, other than that, no intel, etc. should be had. )

[Lazarillo]

Well an "iron man" is whatever you decide to make it be, so you can decide what counts.  Not that I'd ever find it remotely compelling to actually do either way, but IMO, the best take on it that I recall was a pretty large group back in the game's original lifetime that played it with an in-game justification, as something like "objections to mediporters since there's no way to prove that they aren't just killing you and replacing you with a clone".  In that regard, someone giving you a wakie seems fair, or even beyond that, kinda rude to suggest that a friend Poison user can't reanimate you with their Elixir of Life.

[Ghost]

7 minutes ago, Lazarillo said:

Well an "iron man" is whatever you decide to make it be, so you can decide what counts.  Not that I'd ever find it remotely compelling to actually do either way, but IMO, the best take on it that I recall was a pretty large group back in the game's original lifetime that played it with an in-game justification, as something like "objections to mediporters since there's no way to prove that they aren't just killing you and replacing you with a clone".  In that regard, someone giving you a wakie seems fair, or even beyond that, kinda rude to suggest that a friend Poison user can't reanimate you with their Elixir of Life.

Not sure that could be called an Iron Man challenge…..and not sure how following preset criteria (no deaths) is rude.

 

But there ya go OP.  You found someone to agree with you.  

[Lazarillo]

3 minutes ago, Ghost said:

Not sure that could be called an Iron Man challenge…..and not sure how following preset criteria (no deaths) is rude.

I mean, I'm not sure how anything other than making a Technology-origin hero with red and yellow power armor could be called an Iron Man challenge.  And my Poison example was more a barb about the idea that permadeath really makes sense from any sense from a Watsonian perspective in the first place. It comes back to the main point of "it's literally just something you do only for yourself, so you can make it be whatever rules you want".  and how it at least seems more engaging if you're actually turning it into something that fits within the game world.

[SeraphimKensai]

Every time I've played a Hardcore game when the character dies. It's dead.

 

That said I've been reading comics for going on 40 years now, and I've seen more than my share of characters die and get resurrected via all sorts of means such as multi versal events, time travel, magic, healing tears, getting dragged back out of hell, etc.

 

Due to that playing an Ironman run in a superhero game doesn't make much sense as characters tend not to stay dead. I mean look at the Death and Return of Superman from 1993 for example.

[tidge]

I would only consider playing "Iron Man" rules if I were playing exclusively with like-minded friends or playing exclusively solo. I've been on too many open-world PUG leagues where the league leader moves 50s onto teams lead by characters too low for the zone. On a single team with the difficulty turned up? That doesn't bother me as I have some agency. Dashing through Peregrine Island and finding yourself at level 20... not cool.

[Ghost]

59 minutes ago, Lazarillo said:

I mean, I'm not sure how anything other than making a Technology-origin hero with red and yellow power armor could be called an Iron Man challenge.  And my Poison example was more a barb about the idea that permadeath really makes sense from any sense from a Watsonian perspective in the first place. It comes back to the main point of "it's literally just something you do only for yourself, so you can make it be whatever rules you want".  and how it at least seems more engaging if you're actually turning it into something that fits within the game world.

Sounds like your thinking of it in terms of comics - Iron Man as in the hero.

People who participate in the challenge think of it more in terms of like an Ironman in sports.  Longevity.  Physical endurance.  Outlasting everyone else.

Like a Cal Ripken Jr or Lou Gehrig.  
Not missing a game.  
In video game terms - not dying.

Most people who participate, agree on the rules before starting.  The first rule they usually agree on, is death equals end of challenge.

Edited August 7 by Ghost

[Without_Pause]

IIRC, the original Iron Man rules were created for Diablo or some similar game. I believe EverQuest had similar rules as well. It just fell under the general label of playing hardcode. It had nothing to do with the comic book character. The original Diablo was easy enough to where numerous variants were added in from the fan base. LOL was Living Off the Land so you couldn't use stores. Naked was playing without armor. A number of people would even combine variants, see Naked LOL.

[Lazarillo]

7 hours ago, Ghost said:

Sounds like your thinking of it in terms of comics - Iron Man as in the hero.

I'm more making a crack this time about the fact that it's literally just setting whatever rules you want to set.  There's nothing to it beyond self satisfaction, so if you're not having fun with it, you're doing it wrong.  If you think a rule is okay being broken because it makes it more fun, then that's the right way to play it.  If you think bending it makes it less fun, then don't do that.

[Snarky]

My Fire Fire Fire Blaster is on Iron Man rules.  He has a self rez, and that of course does not count.  Likewise being rezzed by a teammate.  And I have done some 2 and 4 star stuff with him.   Those deaths do not count.  Well he has used some rezzes and hospitals besides that.  But i forgot to count those.  So they dont count.  He is doing great for a vet level 110 Iron Man Fire Blaster. 

[TheMoneyMaker]

Per iron man rules, death = final death. You shouldn't use watching to see how the mission played out as an excuse.

 

Iron man rules are a little stricter than real life, if you ask me. I know I've been so close to leveling that one win would put me over the top and I'd keep fighting even close to death only to be defeated and DOT damage on an enemy I was fighting finish them off and wake me back up again.

 

The question for me is does defeat = death?  I think there should be a time requirement.  If you're on a solo mission and the lucky scenario above doesn't happen to you, then you're out of luck.  If you're defeated and on a team, there should be a time limit where someone can come along to deliver first aid.  In the spirit of the iron man rules, you shouldn't continue playing after being defeated because defeat = death, but I think that's a little too strict and kinda silly.

[Ghost]

6 hours ago, TheMoneyMaker said:

Per iron man rules, death = final death. You shouldn't use watching to see how the mission played out as an excuse.

 

Iron man rules are a little stricter than real life, if you ask me. I know I've been so close to leveling that one win would put me over the top and I'd keep fighting even close to death only to be defeated and DOT damage on an enemy I was fighting finish them off and wake me back up again.

 

The question for me is does defeat = death?  I think there should be a time requirement.  If you're on a solo mission and the lucky scenario above doesn't happen to you, then you're out of luck.  If you're defeated and on a team, there should be a time limit where someone can come along to deliver first aid.  In the spirit of the iron man rules, you shouldn't continue playing after being defeated because defeat = death, but I think that's a little too strict and kinda silly.

And that’s why you don’t agree to those rules before starting to play.

[TheMoneyMaker]

On 8/8/2024 at 6:20 PM, Ghost said:

And that’s why you don’t agree to those rules before starting to play.

You're right I don't agree to those rules because they're silly.  Being knocked out isn't dying.

[Snarky]

4 hours ago, TheMoneyMaker said:

You're right I don't agree to those rules because they're silly.  Being knocked out isn't dying.

[TomatoPhalanges]

General opinion here is you're dead, it seems like, however I posit this, from the perspective of someone who enjoys Nuzlocking pokemon and playing Hardcore Classic WoW on occasion:

Regardless of game, unless officially supported, an Ironman challenge is a set of self-imposed rules for the sake of personal fun and challenge. Thus, what you think is a fun and compelling answer here is the right one. If you think the odds of the revive are low enough that it's a cool lucky save, and you do not plan to exploit the rule (or you think exploiting it is an interesting bit of gameplay), run with it. If you think the revive is a cop-out, run with that. Nobody else's opinion matters here really, it's entirely your call on what you think is more interesting: the narrow escape from death, or the tragic end and a reason to start anew?

 

When it comes to ironman challenges, there's two reasons people do them: either for fake internet clout or for the fun of the challenge and the thrill of the progression. Sometimes both! Worth thinking about where you sit when it comes to decisions like this.

Edited August 14 by TomatoPhalanges
third paragraph

[TheMoneyMaker]

7 hours ago, Snarky said:

Superheroes get defeated all the time and manage to survive.  Crazy plot armor or whatever... it's part of the genre.

 

  

  

   \

Edited August 14 by TheMoneyMaker

[Owl Girl]

okay but it's impossible to die in this game. The "iron man" rules here are clearly referring to being knocked out. by all means, keep the character if You want to, but people are right to recognize that you failed the challenge.

[Snarky]

37 minutes ago, Owl Girl said:

okay but it's impossible to die in this game. The "iron man" rules here are clearly referring to being knocked out. by all means, keep the character if You want to, but people are right to recognize that you failed the challenge.

i think the OP walked away some time ago.  Now it's just a couple of us left.  Some say it's dead.  Some say just stunned....

 

[Owl Girl]

g_d Knows i love to handle a corpse tho 😃

[TheMoneyMaker]

3 hours ago, Owl Girl said:

g_d Knows i love to handle a corpse tho 😃

I'm out.

 

I think this is where Snarky takes point