Are Converters still the go-to for merit purchases?

[EmperorSteele]

I've been trying to deck out my latest character, so I started the ol' tried and true method of spending all my merits on converters, then using the inf from the sales to buy enhancements.

 

Well, one weekend later, and only half have sold, leaving me with a half unfulfilled shopping list.

 

=(

 

So I started to wonder if this method really is the most efficient use of merits. You can buy a purple recipe for 100 merits. That same number of merits will get you 300 Converters, which in turn SHOULD get you at least 15 mil after fees (assuming you don't just list for 5 and get unlucklily lowballed).

 

An average purple enhancement on the AH goes for 15-18 mil. So using merits to buy the recipe starts looking more promising.

 

HOWEVER, note that you still have to craft the recipe! Doing so costs 600k, plus 3 rare salvage, which all usually go for 400-600k each. So that's an extra 2mil in the bucket right there, assuming you don't have the materials on-hand.

 

Overall, it seems that the converter to Inf to buy method isn't as efficient as it used to be. If you have unlimited time but limited inf/resources, then it's still a good way to go to save some scratch, so long as you're willing to hold selling high/buying low bids for several weeks. But if you have plenty of resources and no time/patience, it seems you're not losing out too much spending the merits directly on the recipes and crafting them.

 

Thoughts?

[Ukase]

Well - for one - much depends on what you're selling the converters for. You also probably forgot, or didn't know that you can save yourself a ton of clicking by just selling your converters, no matter how many you have, to me. If you have over 10K, it may take a couple of minutes because of the cap on how many can be held by a given character, but it would probably save you fees, and a lot of clicking. It would certainly save me a lot of clicking. 

And since you're Cosmic Council, you get a better rate than other non-Cosmic folks would. (DM me for details)

As to the specific request for thoughts on the topic -- I honestly have never sold a converter. Ever. I get more inf from using the converters to turn trash into gold. (nowadays, with all the competition, it seems less like gold. More like tarnished silver) 

It seems to be a common discussion that if you have 100 reward merits, the only time it's worth using them for an enhancement is with regards to Winter-Os. 

Purples - though expensive to craft, relatively - can still be obtained via patience for 12M or so; And with crafting and salvage, still be had for less than 15M all in. And then sold patiently for 18M for profit. Seems like a lot to invest given how fungible they are - with market crash and converters being easily used. Still, not a great deal for 100 merits. 

Winter-Os continue to sell for the "Sell now" price of about 17-18M - which is roughly what you might expect to get from selling 300 reward merits for 65K each. If you catalyze it (900k) and then unslot (100k) and list it - you can get close to 25M if not more, if you're patient. The problem is - we're not the only people who know this, so there's always competition driving the prices down. Still, even at 21M for a superior Winter, you make out just a bit ahead of selling converters outright (after fees, and on the AH). You probably just have to wait longer. 

But, for my money, I say use the converters. But since it's your money - sell them in whatever size stack you have to me. 

 

[honoroit]

People use converters a lot, kupo:

 

• Making a crafted enhancement into another. E.g. an uncommon -> type -> repeat that until rare -> roll rare until a reasonable one.
• ^ that lets you take crafts WITHOUT rare salvage to ones that would require it. If that costs less than 400k inf, then you likely profit

 

• Converting ATOs and winter sets
• I'm guilty of this, a lot.
• Pretty much when I feel like /respec a loaded character and recycling ATOs

So ya, sold reasonably priced, they sell instantly.

 

Right now, I lost mine at 59999, and buy at 66666. But I'm trying to use them mainly, as opposed to selling them.

[Yomo Kimyata]

1 hour ago, EmperorSteele said:

So I started to wonder if this method really is the most efficient use of merits.

 

Welcome to the jungle!  We've got fun and games!

 

Personally, I spend my merits on converters and use them, but I've got somewhere in the range of 30-50k merits lying around and I *still* buy converters on the market because I think they are cheap.

 

If I needed to liquidate my merits and get top dollar for them, I would not convert them to converters and list them at 1 inf.

[Ukase]

45 minutes ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

list them at 1 inf.

Happy to buy them from you at 2x the price! 

[EmperorSteele]

@Ukase, I'd forgotten about that offer! I just may take you up on that if my remaining converters refuse to sell by the end of the day =)

 

Otherwise, I suppose I should have phrased my query a bit more specifically: in terms of just getting a character IO'd out with Purples, which method of resource allocation achieves that goal either quicker or cheaper?

 

I purposfully left out converter roulette as an option as A) that won't get you purples directly, and B) while lucerative, it can be very time-consuming.

[Yomo Kimyata]

Let me try to be a little more helpful without making it too easy.

 

100 merits will buy you:

 

-- 300 enhancement converters.  Where do you think you can sell them in bulk?  I'm going to somewhat arbitrarily pick 66,666 inf and round which gets us to a sales price of 20mm and a net income of 18mm after the /AH fees.  This is a pretty decent standard I would think, and you can probably liquidate thousands of merits at this level in pretty short order (although not instantly).

 

-- 200 enhancement unslotters.  This feels like a much less liquid market for a lot of reasons.  In order to match converters you would need to be able to sell in bulk at 100k.

 

-- 20 enhancement boosters.  Breakeven here is selling at 1mm per booster.

 

-- 5 enhancement catalysts.  Breakeven is selling at 4mm per catalyst, which will not happen since catalysts are also generated as drops for lvl 50s.

 

-- 1 ATO.  Breakeven would be selling ATOs at 20mm which seems unlikely since again there are cheaper ways to get ATOs.

 

-- 1 Winter O.  Breakeven is also at selling WO at 20mm which is certainly plausible.

 

-- 1 purple recipe.  Breakeven would be selling this at 20mm, which is unlikely.  As you note, crafting will add roughly 2mm to your cost basis but will get you closer to your bogey.

 

-- 1 PVP recipe.  Select it at level 10 and it's cheapest to craft, but you won't get anything near to 20mm for it.

 

-- 1 rare recipe.  I don't expect you can sell one rare recipe or even one rare crafted IO for 20mm.

 

-- 5 uncommon recipes.  Can you sell 5 uncommon recipes for 4mm apiece?  I don't think so.  Can you take 5 uncommon recipes and craft and convert to sell at something better than 20mm net?  Yes, but it will take knowledge, a bit of luck, and probably cannot do enough better to soundly outperform converters.

Edited August 12 by Yomo Kimyata

[Without_Pause]

I've never bought a converter. Since coming back after the break I don't even really play the market anymore. Any character at this point crafts drops and converts as needed. If I play my 50s casually at night, see maybe two hours, I can regularly pull 40 mill in a night. I know I have done 100+ in some instances, but that would include longer play and duo boxing. Best case scenario for me is getting on at 10pm and playing until 1am. Also factor in downtime so even then I'm not fully playing for 3 hours. Play typically includes soloing at +2/x8 with it occasionally going to +3 +4 depending on the situation, but I haven't done non-farm +4 in a long time, and I hardly duo box a farm these days anyway.

[Yomo Kimyata]

6 hours ago, EmperorSteele said:

Overall, it seems that the converter to Inf to buy method isn't as efficient as it used to be.

 

I also want to make a comment specifically on this.  The conv to inf trade is very efficient:  it's a deep market and you can generally make sales quickly.  I think what you are saying is that it isn't as profitable as it used to be, which really depends on your time frame.

 

If you want to liquidate 100 merits a day, you can probably squeeze out a little more return from either different or a diversified set of methods.  If you want to liquidate 2000 merits a day?  I'd focus on converters because you can absolutely sell 6000 of those in a day at good prices.

[EmperorSteele]

@Yomo Kimyata You mention selling converters at 66.6k, but then later say that one can sell a high volume at "good prices". There seems to be a bit of a disconnect here, unless I am misunderstanding your use of "good"; good for the buyer (low) or seller (high)? Because I listed my converters for lower than the 66.6k you mentioned, but higher than the going "bulk lowball" rate of 60,001, and half of it all is still there 3 days later. So while I'm sure I could just list them all for 5 and get insta-sales, I doubt I'll get more than 60k a piece for most of them. Which won't really help me get all the purples I want =/

 

It's also possible this is just bad timing on my part. A new power set came out a week ago, and that would have been the time to strike, though I suspect there's a glut right now of converters and enhancements put to market by multiple like-minded people who were trying to cash in all at once.

[Glacier Peak]

I admit, I sell items for 5 inf more often than not because I can't be bothered to look at what the item previously sold for. I'm not hurting for inf streams and it's just less clicks to get to the cheese. I do this with purples, pvps, aethers, boosters, the whole nine yards! 

 

I don't think I could give someone enough influence to click all of my email items for me. I'd literally give it all away if someone would be willing to accept the carpel tunnel.

[Yomo Kimyata]

11 hours ago, EmperorSteele said:

@Yomo Kimyata You mention selling converters at 66.6k, but then later say that one can sell a high volume at "good prices". There seems to be a bit of a disconnect here, unless I am misunderstanding your use of "good"; good for the buyer (low) or seller (high)? Because I listed my converters for lower than the 66.6k you mentioned, but higher than the going "bulk lowball" rate of 60,001, and half of it all is still there 3 days later. So while I'm sure I could just list them all for 5 and get insta-sales, I doubt I'll get more than 60k a piece for most of them. Which won't really help me get all the purples I want =/

 

It's also possible this is just bad timing on my part. A new power set came out a week ago, and that would have been the time to strike, though I suspect there's a glut right now of converters and enhancements put to market by multiple like-minded people who were trying to cash in all at once.

 

Fair points, and our opinions are going to vary based on our own personal experience.  I have never sold converters under 70k, but then again, I haven't tried to sell any recently.  I have also noted that where I can buy them in bulk nowadays is significantly below 66k, although higher than it was a year ago.

 

Honestly, I choose 66,666 as a price point because historically I think I would have been able to both buy and sell there through most of my HC experience.  That said, there seems to be a small number of heavy users involved in the market (over 100k bids and offers) that pop up seemingly overnight, so I suspect these are bids and offers from a relatively small number of users (like one or two) rather than hundreds of thousands of players getting more involved.  So maybe there are 100,000 offered at 60k, in which case you won't sell any above that level until people buy those listed.  but since you earlier stated you sold *some* at your price, then I'd suggest being patient.

[UltraAlt]

12 hours ago, EmperorSteele said:

half of it all is still there 3 days later.

 

You don't seem to have much patience.

3 days ... even over a weekend... isn't much market time.

[honoroit]

How many did you try to sell? 

 

When I melt a character, if they have less than 50 merits, I turn that all into converters. Typically that's after posi tfs and a yin, and I end up with some 100-120 converters 

 

 

At 59999, they tend to sell instantly. You asking for lots of cash, all big cash daddy likes?

[EmperorSteele]

300 at once >_>

 

I suppose that's unrealistic, but the point I was trying to make was that if I spent the merits directly on the purples, I'd have them by now (though not without significant cost for crafting, which is important to keep in mind), whereas with the "selling converters" method, I've barely sold enough to buy a single enhancement. So I was a bit like "heeeyyyy..."

[honoroit]

If you got 100 merits, take a winter ❄️ IO and sell it at 25M flat.

 

The ATOs been going for 10M flat too these days (obviously don't get these with merits).

 

People been setting the base at the cost of a pack roll recently. (New sets, punishment tax)

 

Not the case for purple 🟣 50 recipes, as these drop while fire farm.

Edited August 13 by honoroit

[Ironblade]

My impression is that you need to put in a bit more work to get the big payouts.  I use merits to buy converters and then use them to convert trash enhancements to valuable ones.  For a while, I would give a new character a pile of 3,000 converters and get to work.  I would do this on a new character so I knew I would be logging the character on a regular basis.  They would approach the influence cap before finishing their incarnate powers and I would move any remaining converters to a new character.

 

I started to taper off after passing 10 billion inf since I don't think I'll ever run out at this point.  Playing high level characters generates a lot of inf and it takes me a while to take a character from level 1 to fully tier 4 incarnate.

[Without_Pause]

23 hours ago, honoroit said:

The ATOs been going for 10M flat too these days (obviously don't get these with merits).

I buy them at 8M. I did both sets for a MM at 7.5M per each IO.

[MegaloRob]

This is such an interesting discussion. I played in the ncsoft days and I am super excited to get back in. 

 

I finally talked a few friends of mine into playing too. And we have a weekly game set up. We have met once and our characters are level 10.

 

What would the market advice be for this? Everything is reflected as 100 merits. Well, can I take my 14 merits and turn it into more resources to build out my little baby noob toon out?

[Ukase]

Market advice for level 10? 
So much depends on your goals - and your tolerance for an activity many find tedious/dull/repetitive. 

A few opinions of mine, not necessarily shared by everyone, but probably shared by most: 

To make better than average inf in the market requires knowledge in how the AH works. Lowest list price goes to highest bid. But sometimes the highest bid is your list price +1 inf, so be careful. The more experience you have in looking at recipes and what they sell for, the ingredients required (salvage & inf to craft) and the substitute goods that may be bought instead, the better off you will be. 

Understand that sometimes, there's competition that limits your ability to sell an item for what the last 5 prices suggest they would sell for. Sometimes, those hundreds of bids you see are from players that no longer play, and they were super, super low noob traps, potentially never to be filled. And, sometimes the IOs you see for sale, it's possible that hundreds of those are priced much higher by players that don't play anymore, and they may never sell. (like a luck of the gambler 7.5% recharge used to sell for 7-8M routinely. No longer. It's possible many of those lotg we see in the AH for sale are from 2020, and priced to sell at 9.6m. We may never know. 


Now, for specific advice - which may or may not align with what others may suggest. I make no representation that my advice is any better than another marketers suggestions. 
But, I do think I know what I'm doing with my own influence. 

So, with a once a week play session - this gives you the opportunity to use time to your advantage. As you learn how much things sell for, you'll get an idea of how much you might ask for a given item. At level 10, your needs are not that great - but there's a lot of enhancements that are now available that would make your character more sturdy than if you didn't have them. 


I don't know how much inf you have now. Having at least some inf is fairly critical to getting more inf. Look in the AH for Single Origin enhancements that are not the same as your origin. Start at level 50, work your way down. Bid on the Accuracy, Damage, Endurance Reduction - well, really all of them, say, 100 inf for each one. Every now and then, they will sell! And when you get them - you vendor them to the longbow store NPC, and if they are level 50 Single Origin enhancements, you should get well over 10K for them. 

You can do that for each level of enhancement, each category, each origin if you like. You will probably be able to grab 10-30 enhancements if you go through all of them, which should leave you with 100-300k, maybe more. When you are done with that - look for level 50 rare recipes. Find the ones with very few bids (preferably 0 bids) with a lot listed. 

Bid 10 inf. and bid creep (increment by 10, or 100 - whatever your comfort level) until you get to 1000. 
A level 50 rare recipe will vendor for 10K. The reason you're good with vendoring a level 50 recipe is because it would require rare salvage, which can cost 400-600K, depending on market demands at that time. (possibly cheaper, possibly more..on average 500k) All you're after here is starter inf. 

When you get about 500k, you can bid on something like Cleaving Blow, level 10s. Might cost you 30k to get one. Make sure you check the ingredients before bidding. 
You want 2 of the 4 in the set. 2 of them require rare salvage. You don't want those two. 
 

Don't buy more than 2 of them at first. You may have bad luck and you don't want you influence stored in the form of trashy recipes. You'll need some influence for the common and uncommon salvage. 

You'll also want to get the exploration badges of the zones you're playing in - Atlas, Kings Row, Mercy, Nova Praetoria...any or all of them. Even Echo:Atlas and Echo Galaxy if you've found your way to ouroboros yet. If you don't have a portal yet, and you don't see one around - pop into City Hall, and look for the gate to Recluse's Victory. You can enter there at level 1. Once you enter - you'll get an ouroboros portal that you can use once you leave Recluse's Victory. Then you can grab the explorations from those zones for reward merits, which you'll exchange for converters. 
You craft the Cleaving Blow level 10 recipes, and convert them into Eradications:chance for damage. Sell them for what you think you can make. Maybe list one for 600K and see if you get lucky and get 3-4M. You could also get suckered that way and only get 666K. We never know! But, even at 666k, given the recipe, salvage and crafting cost less then 100k, if you didn't lose more than 5 converters, you still made a little influence. 

Then you think about scale: how many of these can I sell in a week? (since you only play once a week)
You will want to bid on converters, once you have a tiny stack of influence to spare. Bid low - like 56K, maybe 54K. They may never fill - but they might! A lot depends on if your teams are doing tfs and story arcs for merits, or doing pointless radios which reward nothing but useless temp powers and xp. 

If one of your friends is usually the leader, and doing THEIR story arcs - they get paid merits, while you don't. So, push for tfs, and if he starts a story arc - you start the same arc ,and collaboratively complete. 
Menu-Options, general Tab. Show below: 

 

Collaborating is annoying sometimes. Sometimes a contact will give different missions to you and your team leader. This tends to be true with Flux, and Stephanie Peebles in Striga Isle. Still, if there's good communication with the team, you can just redo yours and keep you on track. 

 

 

Whatever path you choose - reward merits (and Prismatic Aethers to a lesser degree) are solid ways to accumulate wealth in game. Whether you use the reward merits to get boosters and sell those, or get converters and sell them or use them - you should be okay. 

There's a TON I left out, because I don't know what you know and what you don't. But I think I gave you enough to at least get started. Others may chime in with more focused and clear advice. 

[MegaloRob]

This is such great information. Thank you!

[Ukase]

2 hours ago, MegaloRob said:

This is such great information. Thank you!

I should also add...if you want more detailed, specific advice, feel free to send a tell to @ukase 
If I'm on, and at the keyboard, I can generally answer questions. Be warned tho - I tend to over-explain, and as a result, will chat your damned head off. 
During the days, I am often tabbed out for work, so it's a hit/miss proposition. 

I encourage you to look for names like @Yomo Kimyata @Andreah @Troo @Bionic_Flea in this market sub-forum, and even in the guides section. These and other players are very sharp and provide great tips and tricks for mastering the market. And there's a lot more than just those 4, those are just the names that come to mind when I think of the market and helpful, sharp players. 

[Yomo Kimyata]

19 hours ago, MegaloRob said:

This is such an interesting discussion. I played in the ncsoft days and I am super excited to get back in. 

 

I finally talked a few friends of mine into playing too. And we have a weekly game set up. We have met once and our characters are level 10.

 

What would the market advice be for this? Everything is reflected as 100 merits. Well, can I take my 14 merits and turn it into more resources to build out my little baby noob toon out?

 

If this is new to most of you, I'd suggest just playing it old school and not worrying too much about building out your characters to the nines.  You are allowed to buy SOs (single origin) enhancements right away now, but that is expensive for brand new characters.  However, if you just do the simplest thing as described in the title here (trade in your merits for converters and sell them on the /AH) you can easily keep yourself in SOs (update every few levels to stay sharp!) as you and your buddies relearn the game.  You're not going to *need* anything expensive for a long long time.

[MegaloRob]

Right. 

I don't expect to get into the IOs until 50. That was always my end game content. 🙂

 

My goal was to get enough influence so I can stat out my guy with SO and then be able to upgrade them when I need to. 

 

This has been a great help.

[Andreah]

Also, there is an "Upgrade" button in the lower left corner of the enhancement management screen. Press it often. It's a fair deal and much easier. It instantly updates all your slotted SO's to your current level, and only changes the fair difference in price from what you last had slotted to what they would cost at your current level.