Amras Build Benchmarks

[AmrasNotHere]

Hello all,

 

@Laucianna, @Ston, and I have been brainstorming together a way to bring the community a reasonable standard to benchmark their characters/builds against others and have landed on 3 points of testing. These are 3 easily accessible methods to see what your build/character is capable of when solo. This is intended to provide a measurable result of what you can do with your character, not what it should do. It doesn't have to be a perfect run, as this is for the soul purpose of showing a history of results from various submissions. You may make as many attempts as you'd like before making a submission.

 

Any "bounties" or "prizes" can be offered by individuals if they desire, though they will not be funded by Original Posters (OPs) unless stated otherwise. If you would like to do so anonymously, I'm happy to help.

 

Please promote HEALTHY conversation in this thread Reasonable suggestions welcome. If there's any questions, please ask them in the thread or PM myself. A FAQ will be created if needed.

 

Viewable Excel File of the benchmark standings: https://1drv.ms/x/c/f38e0e43d6b63423/EZtAG7DqfOpKrYVmUNPcxSIBy7CTUhzCcrQc76ShGJspxQ?e=EhkwBA

 

Pillars of testing

1)DPS - Pylon test

2)Clear Speed - 0x8 Ston Mission

3)Survivability - 4x8 Ston Mission

 

-Ston mission is available on Live & Brainstorm

-Mission Title: Clear Speed Test (Page 7)*

-AE Mission ID: 61992 (live), 23935 (brainstorm)

 

Here is a sample of an acceptable submission format; As of 8/30/24, you will be encouraged to either include the mids file for your build or a link to where it can be found.

Player name or Global: Amra

AT: Corr

Powers: Fire/Time

Pylon Time: 113 Seconds

0x8 Time: 309 Seconds

4x8 Time: 481 Seconds

Character Name: Redhot Shylock

(Optional) Comment: Rev3 (PreI28)

-IF you are unable to complete one of the pillars, it will be marked as DNF.

-Other formats will be accepted on a case by case basis.

 

RULES:

• By submitting results, you agree to an honor code that you will not cheat or use unauthorized resources based on the following rule set.
• For each submission, all 3 pillars of testing must be done with the same build. *This includes incarnates slotted*
• Your own powers (Powers that can be picked from Primary/Secondary/Pool powers/Epic/Paragon) are allowed unless listed below.
• ANY outside assistance will immediately void your run.
• Alpha, Interface, Destiny, and untoggled Hybrid incarnates are allowed. These selections may not be changed per submission.
• Additional powers that are allowed: Auto Temps that do not buff Damage or Accuracy. Reveal.
• ** If not listed above, do not bring it.*
• No insps.
• If you are suspected of "cheesing" you will be asked for a VOD showcasing that you used the same build for each pillar. 
• We reserve the right to ask for a VOD to validate your submission.
• No cheese tactics, you know what we mean.
• Macros are allowed.

 

Notes:

-Recommend making yourself a macro for targeting crey juggernaut for pillar 2 and 3.

-There are 3 pylons that don't attack back when you leave the vanguard base through the portal. They are to your left, on the side of the building.

-Added build submission encouragement as of 08/30/2024, based on feedback it may become a requirement.

 

"Ratings" are used to track the most efficient runs and can be filtered by AT in the excel file:

• Top 10% - SS+
• 10%-20% - SS
• 20%-30% - S+
• 30%-40% - S
• 40%-50% -A+
• 50%-60% -A
• 60%-70% - B+
• 70%-80% - B
• 80%-90% - C+
• 90%-100% - C

Edited August 31 by AmrasNotHere
1st Edit: Updated formatting, added minor clarity to ratings, DNF, and submission details. 2nd: Added clarity to changing incarnates (TLDR Voids run). 3rd: Either include build or link to where it can be found.

[Glacier Peak]

https://forums.homecomingservers.com/forum/43-archetypes/

[Laucianna]

I still fully think this is a wonderful idea ❤️ Allowing a clear comparison without it being a competition! Also @Glacier Peak makes a point that it might be better under the AT section? Maybe a mod can move it 😄

[Snarky]

1 hour ago, Laucianna said:

I still fully think this is a wonderful idea ❤️ Allowing a clear comparison without it being a competition! Also @Glacier Peak makes a point that it might be better under the AT section? Maybe a mod can move it 😄

of course it is a competition.  you saw the specific grade system?  no?

 

i never clear pylons.  i will not do this.  

 

enjoy gazing at your epeens

[GM_GooglyMoogly]

3 hours ago, Laucianna said:

Maybe a mod can move it 😄

 

Moved.

 

It's a very generous grading system.  You can be totally average and still get an A+!

 

On the other hand, since you can be effective and have fun even on an average build, it's probably fairly consistent with what the player base feels.

 

Good luck and may the odds ever be in your favor!

 

[Indystruck]

9 hours ago, Snarky said:

of course it is a competition.  you saw the specific grade system?  no?

 

i never clear pylons.  i will not do this.  

 

enjoy gazing at your epeens

 

OK

[AmrasNotHere]

Hey there again everyone!

There will be an offering of 200 million inf per entry for the first 20 unique submissions to help get the word out about this thread. You may submit as many entries as you'd like, but may only claim this offer a maximum of 5 times per person.

 

Thank you,

-Amra

[Apian]

This is a cool idea. Hope it gains more traction. I'm always on the lookout for new ideas to fuel my altoholism. My report below:
AT: Blaster
Powers: Fire/Mental/Soul
Pylon Time: 183 seconds
+0x8: 204 seconds
+4x8: 372 seconds
Character Name: Seared Mind - Global Name: @Sariah Lockhart
Additional comment: Used Barrier for the AE missions. The build relies heavily on Drain Psyche to maintain endurance so it suffers in prolonged single target encounters like pylons.
 

[ScarySai]

I don't know how you can hope to have accurate datasets without four signature pets and a volley of warburg nukes before every attempt.

[Snarky]

On 8/16/2024 at 7:11 PM, AmrasNotHere said:

Hey there again everyone!

There will be an offering of 200 million inf per entry for the first 20 unique submissions to help get the word out about this thread. You may submit as many entries as you'd like, but may only claim this offer a maximum of 5 times per person.

 

Thank you,

-Amra

my posts are followed by everybody. (everybody who is anybody!)  just email 1 billion to Snarky

 

[BRADICAL]

Global: BRADICAL

AT: Mastermind

Powers: Demons/Marine

Pylon Time: 186 seconds

0x8 Time: 227 seconds

4x8 Time: 420 seconds

Character Name: Devilheart

Comments: Without defense buffs the demons go flying constantly vs. pylons and Clarion does nothing to prevent it for most of its uptime, so clear times can vary pretty heavily but this is ALRIGHT and I'll probably post a couple more with some other ATs, I just wanted to get an MM on here for Science

[AmrasNotHere]

25 minutes ago, BRADICAL said:

 

Comments: Without defense buffs the demons go flying constantly vs. pylons and Clarion does nothing to prevent it for most of its uptime, so clear times can vary pretty heavily but this is ALRIGHT and I'll probably post a couple more with some other ATs, I just wanted to get an MM on here for Science

Thanks for the submission! I would recommend using the pylons that are on the side of the vanguard building (there are 3 and most people will leave you alone during testing) so they don't attack you back. This also opens up room to use ageless for recharge on the pylon for max uptime. I'll get the info updated as soon as I can 🙂

Edited August 21 by AmrasNotHere
added : update ASAP

[BRADICAL]

Oh noted! I went ahead and did a respec + a bunch more runs, including on the target dummy.

 

Global: BRADICAL

AT: Mastermind

Powers: Demons/Marine

Pylon Time: 116 seconds

0x8 Time: 214 seconds

4x8 Time: 371 seconds

Character Name: Devilheart

Comments: Much better now! And it's helped me settle on some build choices I've been going back and forth on for the past week too!

[Laucianna]

1 hour ago, BRADICAL said:

Oh noted! I went ahead and did a respec + a bunch more runs, including on the target dummy.

 

Global: BRADICAL

AT: Mastermind

Powers: Demons/Marine

Pylon Time: 116 seconds

0x8 Time: 214 seconds

4x8 Time: 371 seconds

Character Name: Devilheart

Comments: Much better now! And it's helped me settle on some build choices I've been going back and forth on for the past week too!

That's already a massive improvement! 😄 Nice work ❤️ 

[BRADICAL]

Oh I did a BIG oopsie and was attacking the 54 target dummy instead of the training pylon that I just realized exists on the other side of the building (LOL), but the dummy is maybe a more realistic benchmark for MM performance anyway. THAT SAID, clocking in a training pylon time of 39s on the same character if y'all want to slide that into the data somewhere! 😅

[agentx5]

Character Name: Elizabeth Boudreaux

AT: Stalker

Powers: DualBlades/SuperReflexes/Soul

Pylon Time: 189.1 Seconds

0x8 Time: 575.3 Seconds

4x8 Time: 1194.5 Seconds

Comments:

She's setup for single-target primarily, and has been used to solo ITFs in the past
 

Character Name: HDJ

AT: Blaster

Powers: BeamRifle/Energy/Mace

Pylon Time: 115.1 Seconds

0x8 Time:  197.5 Seconds

4x8 Time: 306.8 Seconds

Comments:
I do have "Spiderlings" as part of his normal powers, but most enemies were dead by the time they realized they were being hit it was over due to his extreme range (which is what he was designed for, and makes him play so much differently in combat than Alyssa, my main blaster)

 

So I wanted to mostly start with this as a self-comparison between two of my characters that are intended to be boss-killers and drop high-priority targets in a group.  Basically I wanted to settle a debate.  I must say what surprises me the most is HDJ's Pylon time versus Elizabeth.  And believe me, I tried multiple times with Elizabeth but she can't beat what HDJ does and it's a wide margin in time to kill. My guess is that his -RES and -Regen play a big role, and especially his [Disintegration].  But still surprising to me that a Stalker's Assassinate couldn't beat that.  The times above are an from a set of 3 attempt runs each, just so I could clean up outliers

I must say that running that particular AE mission at -/x8 is definitely not intended for Stalkers' playstyle.  Meaning that while she had no issues surviving even against +4/x8 enemies, it definitely slowed things down considerably to clear it all -- basically the wrong tool for the job, I don't look at it like there's anything wrong with build per se.  Her tactics are meant to be ambushing, flanking, and otherwise dropping one HPT (high-priority target) at a time to help out a team, while other ATs are doing their thing clearing the minions.  Most of the time some of the group would run away and I'd have to go chase them down, which increased the time to clear it all.  And when dealing with tougher enemies on +4/x8, I definitely wasn't just "scrapping it out" dangerously like a noob Stalker, but rather making good tactical choices with flanking and striking from Hide -- which while effective, definitely ballooned the time to "clear all" enemies from the AE mission map on +4/x8.  She was never in danger when using tactical positioning wisely, and striking at the right time -- but it meant she couldn't be hyper-aggressive to complete the clear as fast as possible either. 

So I would conclude there's a problem with this test method, @AmrasNotHere, rather than a problem with her.  For testing something like Blasters, Corruptors, Tankers, Brutes, Kheldians, Masterminds, etc it probably works fine.  But not Stalkers, as they really shouldn't be played like a Scrapper.  Also not sure it works well with controllers as the Pylon becomes a DNF, and while Debuffs, Buffs, and lock-downs with mezzes is amazingly helpful for a team they're not meaningful DPS.  That's ok, that's not what a Controller is meant to do (except for maybe Fire or Plant); but after doing one run with my Grav/Emp Controller with this I've decided not to test her the rest of the way.  Took way too long for her to clear +0/x8 than I want to waste doing it twice more plus 3 more of +4/x8.  She has [Propel] working for her on the Pylon, but that's kind of it.

PS: Not going to bother with "player name or global" since it's just me; x5 / @x5 / @agentx5.  I wouldn't want to submit other player's results, and can't see any reason I would ever need to.

Edited August 22 by agentx5
comments

[agentx5]

 

On 8/16/2024 at 10:11 PM, AmrasNotHere said:

Hey there again everyone!

There will be an offering of 200 million inf per entry for the first 20 unique submissions to help get the word out about this thread. You may submit as many entries as you'd like, but may only claim this offer a maximum of 5 times per person.

 

Thank you,

-Amra

I wouldn't feel right accepting this, I'll pass, but thank you kindly.  Give that influence to others who need it, such as giving ATOs sets to newbies to the server trying to level their 1st level 50.
I want my data to be without any sources of competitive bias, and it's mostly just a benchmark to learn things about my builds or balance factors in the game.  Comparisons can be useful, even if there's some flaws.

My next task will be comparing two versions of my main character of my main characters (Alyssa Q'Uzixola, a Fire/Nrg Blaster), one with Fire Mastery and one with Force Mastery

I also want to see how my Electric/Electric Sentinel does 😄

Edited August 22 by agentx5

[BRADICAL]

Got a bunch more entries in, and more are probably coming because this is fun for me! Global is @BRADICAL in all cases.

AT: Corruptor
Powers: Fire/Marine/Elec
Pylon Time: 111s
0x8 Time: 219s
4x8 Time: 312s
Character Name: Sun in Ruin
Comments: This is GOOD but I think I've learned that I like playing Marine demonstrably less on corrs than MMs or trollers. I'll try a procced-out Ice/Marine/Elec next just to compare things.

---

AT: Controller
Powers: Illusion/Marine/Earth
Pylon Time: 64s
0x8 Time: 256s
4x8 Time: 459s
Character Name: Dreamsurge
Comments: As expected, Illusion is great on ST and very safe, but even with Whitecap and Fissure the +4 chaff takes a long time to chew through and slows things down a lot.

---

AT: Controller
Powers: Fire/Dark/Psi
Pylon Time: 131s
0x8 Time: 336s
4x8 Time: 504s
Character Name: Uncrowned
Comments: Worse performance than Illusion/Marine in almost every way, but I have a feeling Fire/Marine would see a LOT of improvements across the board in terms of clear speed, and without sacrificing much if anything as far as safety goes. If anything, /Dark and the build I'm running on it leans a little too hard into defense, but Howling Twilight is good for pylon times at least. I might try building a Fire/Marine on test just to see how things go.

---

AT: Tanker
Powers: Rad/SS/Soul
Pylon Time: 309s
0x8 Time: 277s
4x8 Time: 358s
Character Name: Lifetap
Comments: Full tank build, surprised the pylon went down at all but SS is SS!

[Laucianna]

Updated the form with both @agentx5 and @BRADICALs times (Including updating the Mastermind time) @AmrasNotHere ❤️

[BRADICAL]

Two more!

 

AT: Corruptor
Powers: Storm/Marine/Elec
Pylon Time: 158s
0x8 Time: 321s
4x8 Time: 455s
Character Name: Dreaming Tide
Comments: Storm isn't so great. Slow-paced and DoT-oriented damage profiles should at least have good DPS in long encounters, but its performance is still sub-par and that's on top of all the logistical issues that come with the set.

---

AT: Corruptor
Powers: Ice/Marine/Elec
Pylon Time: 112s
0x8 Time:  239s
4x8 Time: 418s
Character Name: Frostfound
Comments: Even with Thunder Strike and Fold Space, Ice doesn't deal with the +4 chaff quite as easily as Fire does and the pylon time was surprisingly similar considering the difference in proc slotting, but that might just come down to Fire having higher scourge damage. Burnout Blizzard would probably push that down a fair bit more, but I don't think it's coming for Ice/Cold at any rate.

[Lhanis]

While I usually build for comfort and theme over function, this seemed like a fun way to compare my builds to each other even if they won't be anywhere near what others can pull off. So I threw my ranged-only Fortunata into it just to see how bad it really is. Hoboy.

 

Global: @farsinger

AT: Widow

Powers: Fortunata

Pylon Time: 807 Seconds oh god why

0x8 Time: 317 Seconds

4x8 Time: 421 Seconds

Character Name: Lhanis

(Optional) Comment: Since the build is mostly just a chill one for when I don't want to have to think, it skipped most of the melee options. This means clearspeed revolves almost entirely around Psychic Wail's cooldown... so I'm not surprised to see how little variance there is between 0x8 and 4x8. That said, even if I knew my pylon time wouldn't be great I still didn't expect it to be that horrific. Staying ahead of the regen was a struggle the entire way, I definitely felt the lack of hard hitting options there when I have no debuffs to make up for it. Yeesh.

 

I'll have to put my actual Hybrid and NW builds to the test too, just to see. I'll throw them on here when they're done so y'all have something to compare it to.

 

(Edit: I initially misread the rules for this test, and ran the test without Ageless running. I have since re-run it and edited the times. Originally, they were pylon-839, 0x8-343 and 4x8-442. Not a huge difference, but still.)

Edited August 23 by Lhanis

[Lhanis]

I had time, so I did another. Still not min-max'd, but a much more thought out build than the ranged fortunata meme.

 

Global: @farsinger

AT: Widow

Powers: Night Widow

Pylon Time: 199 Seconds

0x8 Time: 347 Seconds

4x8 Time: 480 Seconds

Character Name: Lhanis

(Optional) Comment: This one had a significantly easier time with the pylon, as expected. Clear wasn't bad either, but I noticed that I had a lot of trouble dealing with runners on Ston's map which dragged the time out. I honestly expected the clear and survival to be better than my fortunata with how reliable Spin and Eviscerate usually are, but I guess Psychic Wail is just that good.

 

There was going to be a third build, my fort!hybrid, but during pylon testing I was noticing an odd gap in my attack chain and, lo and behold, a handful of my skills straight up didn't have any enhancements. Woops. I play it so infrequently I didn't even remember it wasn't finished. The rest of my roster also leans towards heavy support and various controllers, who likely would have a DNF in at least one category, so that's probably it from me unless I decide to dust off my Dark/Dark Offender. Thanks for putting this together, I definitely learned a thing or two about my builds here!

[Ukase]

I'm finding myself obtuse again...untoggled hybrid is allowed...but you can't toggle it. Okay. 

So, judgement is a no go? Maybe it would be better to say incarnate powers may be slotted but not used. 


And..I did check out the +4/8 on my spines/fire farmer. The thing is - when the mission completes - you can't see the time it took. It never occurred to me that when the mission completed, I couldn't check. 

Just as well. It wastes 5 seconds just entering the map. I am thinking more than a few of my characters would struggle to complete the +4/8 simply because of the inability to use inspirations.

But I'm with Snarky. Attacking a pylon is the most useless task in game. It's so pointless because pylons don't hit back. 

[BRADICAL]

After all that other stuff, I made some adjustments to Devilheart (Demons/Marine MM) and did another set of runs because I'm obsessed with pushing this thing as far as it can go like the silly MM Enthusiast™️ that I am!

 

AT: Mastermind

Powers: Demons/Marine/Mu

Pylon Time: 36 seconds

0x8 Time: 183 seconds

4x8 Time: 319 seconds

Comments: Shuffling incarnates and some slots around helped a LOT and I picked up Thunder Strike to go with Fences, procced them both out and I'm never looking back. I'm also probably at the point where I've run that map so many times I could do it blindfolded! 😅

Edited August 23 by BRADICAL
Did some extra runs and averaged some of the numbers to compensate. Demons have a pretty wide variance in performance based on how long Hell on Earth has been up, and the extreme outlier runs have a lot to do with the stars aligning on them.

[BRADICAL]

Also, the whole point of the pylons is to measure your DPS since they have a set amount of res and HP. That's how you get the data, but the mission runs help to round it out across the board. It's actually been pretty fun and very useful for informing build choices.

 

In all the runs I've done so far I've learned a few things from parses and made a lot of smart build decisions because of them, and can see the direct comparison in performance between something like Storm vs. Fire on a broad spectrum. I think the biggest point of variance here is going to be between different pilots/builders, but the data is still there to point out what's possible with a given set combo regardless.

 

Maybe with some caveats that I'll try to mention in my posts going forward, like how the MM has issues once things show up with KB magnitudes over 3 on the tail end of Clarion. THAT'S a bad time, and for the most part it's nonexistent in the AE mission compared to something like a Council radio.