Changes to the game/IOs SOs

[Living Brain 3000]

12 minutes ago, Greycat said:

 

Look at your first two sentences.

 

You admit the game is *currently balanced for* SOs.

Then you want to rebalance it over something stronger, making it ... no longer balanced for SOs, but balanced *past* that.

 

If the game is *currently balanced* for SOs, then it's fine. If you slot something that makes you more powerful than SOs? You can change your reputation and make it harder. That option is 100% on you.

 

If you rebalance to make it harder, you're making an *assumption* that people are slotting those things already. They may not be. They may not want to. There are people here who - you may want to sit down - do not like IOs, much less sets. Or who prefer an "old school" manner of play - there are even SGs dedicated to that.

 

While you weren't addressing me, yes, I'm (reasonably) fine with the game having "2 generations better than what the game is balanced for," because (a) it lets people build as they want, and (b) they can alter their settings and/or play hard mode TFs to play at those higher levels without affecting anyone else.

People for the most part are already slotting Set IOs in we are talking about bringing the game into the modern day. I hate to break it to you but NCSoft had a plan prior to sunset to help this issue and we as a player base didnt get to see that.

[Greycat]

6 minutes ago, Living Brain 3000 said:

People for the most part are already slotting Set IOs in we are talking about bringing the game into the modern day. I hate to break it to you but NCSoft had a plan prior to sunset to help this issue and we as a player base didnt get to see that.

 

People are slotting SOs as well. Hate to break it to you but no, you don't get to just raise the difficulty of the game for absolutely everyone because you don't like that.

[Living Brain 3000]

Just now, Greycat said:

 

People are slotting SOs as well. Hate to break it to you but no, you don't get to just raise the difficulty of the game for absolutely everyone because you don't like that.

again the few people who still do are not the majority of the player base slotting sets.

[Rudra]

10 minutes ago, Living Brain 3000 said:

This game is a damage bomb when NCSoft put in IOs and then Set IOs it left them with the choice of make the game a  damage bomb like we have today or balance out for either sets or base IOs. NCSoft didn't want a meta forced down on people so they never wanted set balance. We up the power scale of the game already with new powers or tougher enemies in the form of Incarnate lvs and powers this is a small way to force balance and tougher things without adding more to the game. No one cried when TOs were taken away and to the solving of DOs and SOs originally the game didnt put things like (damage) next to the name of say an SO or DO so you had to go on the color which was fine but you had to know that back on live. TOs were easy in the fact it said Training Damage. Just Strip SOs out make vendors sell Base IOs. We can even up the drop rate of Salvage and Recipes like I have addressed above. In computer terms if Trainings were version 1 DOs version 2 and SOs version 3 then most of the player base is using version 5 when the game should be balanced around version 4 instead it is based around version 3 (SOs) this change is something again that adds nothing in terms of content but makes the game less of a damage bomb and more of a balanced set. Players should and will always be stronger than the enemies because you lv faster and or run sets or even multiple Base IOs. This is strictly to modernize the game for 2024 and beyond.

 First off, what do you mean by damage bomb?

 

Second, if you don't want incarnate powers in the content you do, then don't use them.

 

Third, yes, there were players that were upset when TOs were taken out. I was one of them. And if you knew TOs were removed, which they weren't, then why did you cry that new players have to figure out the transition from TOs to DOs? (TOs are still available for those that want to use them. They just have to go find them. Pretty sure SG base vendors still sell them up to level 30.)

 

Fourth, vendors will not sell IOs, even generic IOs, because they are part of the crafting system. If you want IOs of any kind? You either have to craft them or buy them from a player that already crafted them.

 

Fifth, the drop rates for salvage and recipes is already very good. Any more and you would get a constant stream of them.

 

And most importantly, as has already been stated in every one of my responses, you do not get to take things away from other players. You do not get to:

 

1 hour ago, Living Brain 3000 said:

force us players into building better def res stats

 You do not get to force other players to play the way you want, taking away game options because you think they are underpowered and you want the more powerful option to be the minimum mandatory enhancement requirement for all players no matter what those other players prefer for their game experience. Let alone force other players to play a more difficult game because you think they should. There are players that want to freely and easily mow down their opposition because they just want to blast through the game and not worry about anything. That is their prerogative, and you have no right to take that away from them.

 

So again, play how you want, but do not try to force others to play the same way. It doesn't matter to me in the slightest how often you say "damage bomb" or complain that players can play the game safely or anything else. Because those players get to play how they want just as much as you get to play how you want and I get to play how I want.

[Rudra]

12 minutes ago, Living Brain 3000 said:

13 minutes ago, Greycat said:

 

People are slotting SOs as well. Hate to break it to you but no, you don't get to just raise the difficulty of the game for absolutely everyone because you don't like that.

again the few people who still do are not the majority of the player base slotting sets.

It doesn't matter if they are a majority, minority, or barely have a presence in the game. That is their choice on how they play.

[Rudra]

23 minutes ago, Living Brain 3000 said:

People for the most part are already slotting Set IOs in we are talking about bringing the game into the modern day. I hate to break it to you but NCSoft had a plan prior to sunset to help this issue and we as a player base didnt get to see that.

You of course have proof of NCSoft's plans for DOs and SOs? And HC isn't NCSoft.

[Lunar Ronin]

Taking away options generally isn't a good idea.  It's true that the game is moving away from SO enhancements.  Using SO enhancements in Incarnate content and advanced mode content certainly isn't viable.  However, there's a lot of content in the game that is still viable for SO enhancements.  No reason to remove SO enhancements for those.

[Greycat]

17 minutes ago, Living Brain 3000 said:

again the few people who still do are not the majority of the player base slotting sets.

 

So what? And have you looked through the builds of "the majority of the player base" to say this?

 

It's where the game *is* balanced. It's the lowest common denominator. It does not need to be raised because you don't like that.

[Living Brain 3000]

Like I said at the top of the post keep the game the same pre lv 32 post lv 32 which is 35 Base IOs we move the game to balance around that. And for those saying I am forcing my style of place. No things like Labyrinth and Incarnate content and 4 star are forcing these changes these changes are once again running. I have run so much content on Excel that yes on excel I have looked at plenty of builds I can also look on the discord and see majority of builds use Set IOs so this argument of well people still use SOs is a weak argument when it comes to the fact of the game being again 2 generations better in play patter or playstyle. If the small minority of players who still use SOs hate it that much then let me remind those who still do that use all used to use trainings and we got better at the game when SOs came out. We can do it again stop holding the majority of the player base back.

[Rudra]

4 minutes ago, Living Brain 3000 said:

If the small minority of players who still use SOs hate it that much then let me remind those who still do that use all used to use trainings and we got better at the game when SOs came out.

What are you talking about? When SOs came out? SOs were part of the game at launch, just like DOs and TOs.

 

4 minutes ago, Living Brain 3000 said:

We can do it again stop holding the majority of the player base back.

How is anyone opposing the OP holding back the player base? They can currently build how they want. So what are you talking about?

 

Your comments have me wondering if you play the game. New players have to solve TOs to DOs to SOs? All used to use trainings and we got better at the game when SOs came out? DOs started dropping around level 20 back on Live, from the day the game launched. SOs I think were around level 30? So what are you talking about?

 

Edited August 20 by Rudra
Edited to correct "SOs" to "TOs".

[Greycat]

1 minute ago, Living Brain 3000 said:

Like I said at the top of the post keep the game the same pre lv 32 post lv 32 which is 35 Base IOs we move the game to balance around that.

 

Which is still changing the difficulty and removing options.

 

1 minute ago, Living Brain 3000 said:

 And for those saying I am forcing my style of place. No things like Labyrinth and Incarnate content and 4 star are forcing these changes these changes are once again running.

 

Those are *optional* content. Just like raising your difficulty. Opening a vegan restaraunt in town does not mean everyone in town has to throw out their meat, and providing *optional* content and difficulty settings does not mean everyone must run or build for it.

 

3 minutes ago, Living Brain 3000 said:

f well people still use SOs is a weak argument when it comes to the fact of the game being again 2 generations better in play patter or playstyle.

 

"I don't like it" is the weak argument, not "People still play the way they want and I don't want them to."

 

4 minutes ago, Living Brain 3000 said:

We can do it again stop holding the majority of the player base back.

 

Nobody's holding anybody back. You want higher difficulties, you can change your OWN difficulty settings and/or build WITHOUT REMOVING THE OPTION FOR OTHERS TO NOT DO SO.

 

Read that again.

 

YOUR request would REMOVE OPTIONS. We do not want options removed. Whether YOU like that or not.

 

[Glacier Peak]

Don't touch my Yin enhancements!

[Greycat]

4 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

Don't touch my Yin enhancements!

 

... I'm amused by people just calling those Yinhancements now.

[Glacier Peak]

13 minutes ago, Greycat said:

... I'm amused by people just calling those Yinhancements now.

That's the first I've read that, but I'm sold! Yinhancements lol

[golstat2003]

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

It doesn't matter if they are a majority, minority, or barely have a presence in the game. That is their choice on how they play.

 

The devs have also answered this multiple times. The game is balanced arounds SOs. They are not going away. Dead on arrival suggestion is dead.

 

They have said this in and out of closed beta forums, in discord, etc etc etc.

[Luminara]

7 minutes ago, Living Brain 3000 said:

when NCSoft put in IOs and then Set IOs

 

NCSoft didn't.  NCSoft was the publisher.  Publishers don't make games, they finance and market them.

 

7 minutes ago, Living Brain 3000 said:

NCSoft didn't want a meta forced down on people so they never wanted set balance.

 

NCSoft had nothing to do with balance decisions or how the meta evolved.

 

Referring to Cryptic, the development studio, that being the people who actually worked on the game, not NCSoft, the publisher, they absolutely did strive, constantly, for balance in all of its multitudinous forms.  Cryptic was obsessed with balance.  Cryptic had such a massive hard-on for balance that they preferred to leave less powerful sets languishing rather than risk over-buffing them.  Cryptic brought the hammer down on six-slotting one category of SO in a power with ED, for balance.  Cryptic instituted the Global Defense Nerf, for balance.  Cryptic spent almost as much time trying to achieve perfect balance between sets and powers, between players and NPCs, as they did creating content.

 

Paragon was just as anal-retentive about balance.

 

The Homecoming developers are big fans of balance, too.

 

You strike me as someone who's never looked at a patch note in his/her entire life.  If you had, you'd see the detritus of the endless struggle to keep everything balanced.  Or, at least, not made such a ridiculous statement as that.

 

7 minutes ago, Living Brain 3000 said:

 this change is something again that adds nothing

 

That's the first thing you've said that sounds correct.

 

6 minutes ago, Living Brain 3000 said:

I hate to break it to you but NCSoft had a plan prior to sunset to help this issue and we as a player base didnt get to see that.

Paragon had a plan for the future.  It was called "more Incarnates".  We've read the AMAs, we know what they were planning.  We also know they weren't planning to redesign the game around IOs.  They wanted the Invention system to give players a way to become stronger than the SO balance.  They specifically stated that IO sets were intended to allow players to develop their characters laterally, to become more powerful without requiring an increase to the level cap.  That was the primary goal and expressed purpose of the Invention system.  Had the economy not been horrendously fucked, the game we're playing now would've been exactly how the game would've evolved then.  Fully kitted-out characters, ROFLstomping teams, people soloing *Fs with their favorite characters, everything we're enjoying now.  That was always the plan.

 

You don't know who worked on the game, you don't know how hard Cryptic and Paragon, and now Homecoming, struggled to maintain balance, you don't even know what changes were made for the sake of balance, much less why.  So don't try to con anyone with the mysterious insider with earth-shattering revelations schtick.  You know nothing that the rest of us don't already know, and less than anyone participating in this thread, so save .

 

34 minutes ago, Living Brain 3000 said:

again the few people who still do are not the majority of the player base

 

Neither are you.

 

12 minutes ago, Living Brain 3000 said:

stop holding the majority of the player base back.

 

That's... the whole point... of balance...

[PeregrineFalcon]

2 hours ago, Living Brain 3000 said:

If the small minority of players who still use SOs...

I would like to know the specific method you used to determine that only a small minority of players still use SOs.

 

You and your friends and/or guild and NOT the majority of the player base.

[JKCarrier]

Sorry, Brain, but the more you explain, the less I understand you. As far as I can tell, the only benefits of this change that you've been able to articulate is that it will make the game a) more "modern" (which I don't care about) and b) more challenging (which I am emphatically against). Oh, and something-something-Meta and something-something-Damage Bomb, whatever those mean.

I am not a hardcore MMO fan. The only reason I play CoH (besides enjoying the superhero theme) is that it is very solo-friendly and casual-friendly. I generally run at the minimum possible difficulty. I struggle against Elite Bosses. I will, on rare occasions, join a Task Force if someone invites me, but I usually regret it (and whoever invited me will almost certainly regret it). I tried running through the Incarnate system on one character, didn't enjoy it, don't plan to do it again. I haven't set foot in the Labyrinth, and don't plan to. I have never farmed, and don't plan to. When a character reaches level 50, that means it's time to roll up a new character.

In short, the way you want me to play is the complete opposite of the way I want to play. Sorry, not interested.

[MoonSheep]

15 hours ago, EnnVee said:

 

• Increased price of already expensive IOs on the market

 

there are no expensive IOs on HC, the most expensive IOs are less than 10% of what they costed on live. no enhancement takes any considerable amount of time to achieve

[BazookaTwo]

2 hours ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

You and your friends and/or guild and NOT the majority of the player base.

 

You're assuming he has friends and/or a guild. I'd bet it's a closer guess he solos and hasn't ever turned up the difficulty settings to see how hard it can be made as is. 

[UltraAlt]

7 hours ago, Living Brain 3000 said:

Also lets be honest we all either have farmers or know someone who does that would let us sit in on their runs to get some Inf

 

I don't farm or support farming.

So, your statement is dishonest.

 

7 hours ago, Living Brain 3000 said:

we can up the drop rate for salvage

 

Salvage is already seeded in the auction house by the DEVs.

 

7 hours ago, Living Brain 3000 said:

SOs are money source I will refer you to the argument above when it comes to price

 

SO sets are far more of an inf source that SOs.

Once I made enough capital off SO's, I moved to SO sets.

I still seed some of the SOs at certain levels when the stock gets low.

 

7 hours ago, Living Brain 3000 said:

The game play change is too much work or too much for free to play game devs. Come on be honest they put out bug fixes new content new power sets and even recently a new zone if the devs wanted too they could bring this game to the a “generation” prior in balance and make this game ever so slightly harder for us the players.

 

What is more fun?

Building a new power set or doing something someone else tells you to do?

 

You can make the game harder for yourself. It isn't that hard to do, and it takes no work from the DEVs.

 

7 hours ago, Living Brain 3000 said:

We all do but again most all of us have farmers or know of a person with a farmer who would let us sit in.

 

I don't farm or doorsit.

I don't hang with farmers or doorsitters.

 

I am a market PvPer.

And I make massive inf off of farmers and doorsitters.

Far more than they make doorsitting and farming.

They are farming PvE. And I'm am - to an extent - "farming" all of them.

 

7 hours ago, Living Brain 3000 said:

Buying SOs is easy from the store. Fine want an in-game lore solution

 

The SOs being crafted by players is the in-game lore.

No. I'm against store selling IOs an IO sets.

And, yes, mainly because that would ruin part of the game that I enjoy.

 

6 hours ago, Living Brain 3000 said:

Yo are not willing to give this game a modern look

 

That is all on you and what you think.

Others obviously disagree with you.

 

6 hours ago, Living Brain 3000 said:

We wouldnt even be forcing them to be using the strongest

 

No one is forcing you to use the strongest.

If  you want a more difficult game to play, you can make it more difficult for yourself without needing to change the gameplay for anyone else.

 

5 hours ago, Living Brain 3000 said:

This game is a damage bomb when NCSoft put in IOs and then Set IOs it left them with the choice of make the game a  damage bomb like we have today or balance out for either sets or base IOs.

 

You know, some of my characters couldn't get enough inf to slot TOs before IOs and the Market were released. They were release at the same time.

Back then, you didn't get influence evened out for being on a team. Infl and xp were based on damage done. I had defenders in the teen levels that watched characters level up multiple times while they kept them from dying.

Couldn't slot. Couldn't do a lot of damage. Couldn't get inf to slot. It was a vicious cycle.

Crafting and marketing changed all that.

 

And pretty soon the exp/inf game was divided more evenly among team members as well.

I think originally, it was damage-driven xp/infl to discourage doorsitting.

It could have gone with a way to add xp/inf for heals actually completed, but then how do you measure how much xp/inf you should get for buffing other players or debuffing enemies?

 

I still think that adding crafting and marketing to the game was one of the best things that was done to the game beyond the initial concept.

 

The best concept that went horribly wrong was the AE. AE was never intended for farming or powerleveling. Both ar exploits. Exploits that the DEVs said publicly that they would not allow. But once the AE went live, and the bans started, they caved. There were simply too many players putting too much money into the game breaking the rules and being banned. And the DEVs deleted all their posts about banning AE exploiters.

 

Want to make the game more difficult?

Avoid the AE.

Avoid x[anything] xp.

Avoid events.

Avoid joining teams above your character's level.

Avoid anything that makes you level faster than you should through normal gameplay.

Avoid slotting anything.

Avoid using inspirations.

 

You can do all of that yourself.

No changes to the game need to be done.

 

The changes you want to impose on other players aren't going to happen.

[mechahamham]

I don't farm at all, ever. I keep a /noxp macro on so much that my level rate is maybe 1/5th to 1/10th what many others experience. I routinely jack up the difficulty as much as I, personally, can manage. When I play on teams, I prefer that the teams also raise difficulty, but I don't push it.

 

I do slot sets. I marketeer like anything and buy attuned IOs. I don't build my characters for incarnate content. I build them to be fun against the 1-50 game.

 

Brain, there are ways to make the game more challenging for yourself (and there almost always has been in the form of notoriety settings). The way I play is pretty challenging, IMO. Don't make the game less fun for others.

 

If you can't enjoy the game by changing the difficulty for yourself, maybe it means that you're just not enjoying the game, period. Maybe you should take a break from it for a while to see if the spark comes back?