Incnetive for folks to start TFs or SFs

[DrRocket]

Maybe its just me, a distinct possibility, but it seems to be much harder now days (in Everlasting) to form a TF, and SFs are much more annoying to form.

 

Crazy/sick me, I decided to gain the Sheer Will Accolade for all my support alts, which were about 18 of them out of my 55 alts ( I think the use of Holds and what not is excessive in the game and the reason for my not having many support types -(Lets face it, I like to feel Special a Star, as opposed to a mere extra)

 

So as a result, I had to form and lead 18 sets of each of the 5 SFs to gain the so wanted accolade That is a formed 90 SFs in the course of 5 weeks.

 

So from an Everlasting serve, I can claim some direct true experience.

 

Note, If at the time, I was ready to recruit an MSR recruitment started - I logged off the server, no point of even trying.

 

So recruiting around Hami and MSR....

 

It took me near 30 minutes or more of constant begging to get a team of 8, about a fourth of the time, the team gave up and we went with groups of 6 or 7

 

I noticed, while I tried to take advantage of the WSF, the WTFs were getting better serviced, but not nearly as often as I would have expected out of a weekly. I also noticed the poor zap forming the TF took at least over 30 min to get it off (disregard Death From Below)

 

I also noticed, that many players would send me a tell "I will you it, if you form it"

 

Which frankly after awhile it just annoyed me at being so callously used.

 

I also got a large number of tells from obviously leacher/farm door sitters despite being 50, having no idea how to play the game, I would get questions "How do I get the Cap Au Diable" I would say use the oro portal, response "What is that?" And then they would cuz me off, when I replied "Wiki It"

 

Please forgive my ranting, but wanted to provide some background to this post...

 

So the real question, is how to get folks to want to lead as opposed to solely force/depend others to do the forming?

 

At this point, I feel if I want to play the game, I have to form a team and slide out the begging board.  At this time, I am very ill, and have a liver terminal ill disease; so I don't have the energy and health to spend 30 min or more forming a team. I am now, getting to the point, that maybe CoH is no longer a game for me, and it is time to do something else, which hurts me, because CoH has been my game for decades, love the game, love culture (except the invading leaching culture)

 

So how to get folks to want to lead, no chance a leacher will ever do this -they do not even know how to play the game proper

 

I had some thoughts...

 

1) Give like a 25% bonus to exp and inf when leading, would that help

2) Give like 50% emps to encourage itrials and level 50 content

3) A shift in the value of salvage, so instead of getting a white drop you get a yellow, etc

 

I frankly have no idea how to incentivize players to want to form, I am essentially pleading with you for a fix

 

As always, lets make this a learning opportunity for me and others...

 

Thank you

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Luminara]

50 minutes ago, DrRocket said:

I had to form and lead 18 sets of each of the 5 SFs to gain the so wanted accolade

 

In other words, you had an incentive to form teams for *Fs.

 

54 minutes ago, DrRocket said:

90 SFs in the course of 5 weeks.

 

And apparently that incentive is working.

 

42 minutes ago, DrRocket said:

Give like a 25% bonus to exp and inf when leading

 

I thought of three ways this can be exploited before I finished reading the sentence.

 

It also occurred to me that it would encourage selfish players to try to lead when they didn't know what they were doing, refuse to relinquish the star to someone who did, and have an adverse impact on others.

 

43 minutes ago, DrRocket said:

Give like 50% emps to encourage itrials and level 50 content

 

Unnecessary, and, frankly, unrewarding for most players.

 

45 minutes ago, DrRocket said:

A shift in the value of salvage, so instead of getting a white drop you get a yellow, etc

 

Leading to a glut of uncommon and rare salvage on the market, bottoming out prices and significantly reducing potential income for players who don't farm *Fs.

 

Counter-proposal: make friends, play with them, no more drama and no need to pile potentially problematic extras on top of the incentives you already admit to having.

[kelika2]

having a working lfg tool would be much better

have it constantly looking for people and putting people in your instance/group.  because i do bossless firefarms i can invite my alts after setting the map.  you can join an AE Arc after it starts.  i dont see why you cant join a TF after it starts

have it pull people who are soloing in their own instance into a tf group

dont be picky when they join, first mission?  last mission?  dont care, let the lfg tool pull them in

 

and hell, shoot for cross server play

[Psyonico]

4 hours ago, kelika2 said:

i dont see why you cant join a TF after it star

TFs give rewards for those that do them, if people got the reward for only doing the last mission, there would be less incentive to form/join them at the start.

[VashNKnives]

I agree with the intent of the suggestion. Leaders should be rewarded for the time and energy that it takes to make this game more than champions online - queue, do the thing, leave, and do it again ad nauseum.

 

How a reward could be provided would take consideration. The person who clicks the button to start the TF/SF probably sat there a while spamming chat. A person who formed and maintained a league did even more. No reward will equal time spent waiting in vain for a shadow shard tf but it will ease the sting that you spent an hour stressing instead of just doing something else or soloing it at -1x1.

 

Once the proper metric is determined then throw those hardworking folks a bone. Why not pass out those prismatics or a grant higher drop chance for valuable somethings.... a captain's bounty for all the risk ventured. (Time & Annoyance & Stress)

[biostem]

7 hours ago, DrRocket said:

1) Give like a 25% bonus to exp and inf when leading, would that help

2) Give like 50% emps to encourage itrials and level 50 content

3) A shift in the value of salvage, so instead of getting a white drop you get a yellow, etc

OK, so I start a TF solo, then go do some street sweeping or something.  Heck, if this system picked up being in an AE or flashback via Ouro as "Being in a Task/Strikeforce", then it'd be even more exploitable...

[PeregrineFalcon]

There's already a reward system in game that rewards people who lead task forces and strike forces.

[kelika2]

3 hours ago, Psyonico said:

TFs give rewards for those that do them, if people got the reward for only doing the last mission, there would be less incentive to form/join them at the start.

sure sounds like that wound be done 100% of the time

but in reality most would stay full at 8 and people will complete.  a few would get lucky on the last mission

[Shin Magmus]

   The funny thing is that this is a sociological problem that stems from the same root cause as the lv50 AE farmed noobs you mentioned: most people want the greatest reward with the least effort.  Spending any effort at all to form or lead anything is already "a bridge too far" for a lot of CoH players, and you can't fix it with a small carrot on a stick.  The reward would need to be disproportionately, unfairly good to make some of these people actually become interested in leading TFs/SFs.  Too small and it won't have any effect at all. 

 

   However, the immediate result of that would be people fighting over who gets to lead the TF/SF now that there's a good enough reward,  and a sociological inevitability of this would be a team splitting in half because 2 people both demanded the "leader reward".  These 2 teams would then be competing for the same player pool and poaching players from each other.  I can literally see 5 moves ahead and see exactly where this leads. 

 

   That's why the pendulum would swing back the other way (because of people crying on the forums about it) and the "leader reward" would get changed to a worthless one-time badge like what happened with the Diversity Bonus.  At that point, nobody would care about the feature and it would quickly be forgotten... sound familiar?  Predicting collective human behavior is a science. 

[Greycat]

5 hours ago, Psyonico said:

TFs give rewards for those that do them, if people got the reward for only doing the last mission, there would be less incentive to form/join them at the start.

 

... see the Patron missions.

 

2 hours ago, kelika2 said:

  a few would get lucky on the last mission

 

Hey, hey, now, this is a T-for-teen rated game... 😉 

[UltraAlt]

11 hours ago, DrRocket said:

At this time, I am very ill, and have a liver terminal ill disease

 

I'm sorry for your health situation.

 

11 hours ago, DrRocket said:

I frankly have no idea how to incentivize players to want to form

 

The majority of players are scared of the star.

 

11 hours ago, DrRocket said:

I don't have the energy and health to spend 30 min or more forming a team

 

I won't spend that long to form one.

I don't even try to start a TF unless I see that there are enough players on the general range of the content. I know some higher levels might join, but I'm generally looking to run XP teams, so if there aren't at least enough on in the level range to fill a team, I don't even bother.

 

Generally, I don't even try to recruit for TFs even as high as 35, and I hardly ever end up running any TFs that high.

 

If recruiting isn't getting an traction after 10 minutes, I'll give up on it.

I have no problem stating TF short-handed. I can pretty much gauge the minimum number that is needed to run most of the lower to mid-range TFs and sometimes I'll aim for that from the start.

 

11 hours ago, DrRocket said:

I am essentially pleading with you for a fix

 

There is no "fix" for astrophobia other than therapy and most players don't even have enough patient's for tactics other than "Hulk smash!" so I don't see any recovery for their fear and dread of the star.

 

I have two friends that I play with two nights of the week and both of them have from mild to complete astrophobia most play sessions.

[Razor Cure]

I agree with teh spirit of a few things here..but..

 

12 hours ago, DrRocket said:

Note, If at the time, I was ready to recruit an MSR recruitment started - I logged off the server, no point of even trying.

So its the games/mechanics fault cause you are to lazy to even try? I Know I hardly ever do Hami or MSR, because they just get boring. I run heaps of TFs when those are both going. And again..you couldn't even be bothered to try...(although, again, I do understand where you are coming from)

 

12 hours ago, DrRocket said:

It took me near 30 minutes or more of constant begging to get a team of 8, about a fourth of the time, the team gave up and we went with groups of 6 or 7

Damn, I forgot all those SFs are made for teams of 8. Oh hang on..I duo all those with a friend of mine. The ATs don't really matter as long as the players are good. Get Shivens for the AV fights, done. Who needs a full teams (esecially when some are likely to be AE babies as you mention)?

 

12 hours ago, DrRocket said:

I also noticed, that many players would send me a tell "I will you it, if you form it"

And why can't they ask that, if you are the one if LFG asking for members? A lot of people don't like forming teams, and no doubt get to choose the content they run a lot less often. You wanna do something specific and no one else is starting it? Form it.

 

12 hours ago, DrRocket said:

So how to get folks to want to lead, no chance a leacher will ever do this -they do not even know how to play the game proper

 

I frankly have no idea how to incentivize players to want to form, I am essentially pleading with you for a fix

 

Again..why should everyone WANT to lead? ANd if everyone wanted to lead, you'd end up with 8 people saying 'WTF LFM' at the same time. Then none of them join the other 7s team, because they all wanna lead. Not gonna touch the bit about some folks not knowing how to play the game, as I agree. But on the bright side? If you are leading, and end up with someone like that on the team..well, kicking feels pretty good (assuming they are like a lvl 50 pl'd ae baby, not an actual new played).

 

 

Basically..we already have incentives to run stuff. If you wanna do it, do it. If you cant find at least one good player to be friends with to duo most content with, there are worse options that dual boxing a kin/emp/rad etc

[JKCarrier]

7 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

The majority of players are scared of the star.

It's true. I don't think there's any incentive the devs could offer that would make me want to lead a TF.
Heck, I about had a panic attack yesterday when I was running Crimson's arc, and remembered that I was gonna have to recruit help to take out the Kronos Titan...

[Rudra]

4 minutes ago, JKCarrier said:

Heck, I about had a panic attack yesterday when I was running Crimson's arc, and remembered that I was gonna have to recruit help to take out the Kronos Titan...

No you don't. When I'm soloing Crimson's arc with a character that can't take GMs and the titan spawns, I sit inside the tram terminal. If it looks like it isn't coming, I go find it and lead it to the terminal. Or any closer point with drones. And it goes away.

[JKCarrier]

9 minutes ago, Rudra said:

No you don't. When I'm soloing Crimson's arc with a character that can't take GMs and the titan spawns, I sit inside the tram terminal. If it looks like it isn't coming, I go find it and lead it to the terminal. Or any closer point with drones. And it goes away.

I'll remember that for next time. Thanks!

[DrRocket]

13 hours ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

There's already a reward system in game that rewards people who lead task forces and strike forces.

Wow, never experienced it or noticed it, what is this system you speak off? You got me curious and excited!

[DrRocket]

I seen a lot of comments around, if you "solo" which is not really the problem I was talking about.

 

If I could just solo content, then screw recruiting and wasting all that time...

 

The idea was when you do recruit for an SF/TF

 

I heard a lot of negatives, potential exploits, which does have limited value. But they do nothing in solving the issue of getting others to recruit too

 

The suggestion to get friends, that is just a no go,  while I have a lot of friends, I do not have them available when I log in to play, and I am hardly Mr. Socialite either. and it again does not solve the problem as in having others bother to form TFs and SFs

 

I do appreciate the advice, but I am looking for incentives for others to kinda do their share

[Luminara]

32 minutes ago, DrRocket said:

I do appreciate the advice, but I am looking for incentives for others to kinda do their share

No-one's obligated to start, lead, join or even remain on teams, so there is no "their share" for leading *Fs.  Nor should there be.  A lot of people don't want to lead, which is why they wait for someone else to do it.  Many people can't lead, and trying to force them to do it would result in losing them as players.  Some people shouldn't be allowed to lead, because they're martinets, or trolls, or so grossly incompetent that putting them in charge of other people would be disastrous.

 

And as you adequately demonstrated, there are already plenty of incentive to participate in *Fs (accolade power, badges, reward merits, drops, XP, inf*).  If the horse doesn't want to drink, it's not going to drink.

[mechahamham]

People don't lead task/strike forces for many reasons, but one of the reasons I see pop up most often is that people don't want to be punished for playing, and team MEMBERS are typically VERY quick to punish the shit out of others if things don't go their way. The team leader inevitably soaks some or all of this up, even if it's just something like, 'Who invited this piece of trash?'

 

"Who the hell went near the stairs?!"

 

"Who activated all the computers before we cleared the ambushes?"

 

"Don't you dare use knockback on outdoor maps!"

 

"Who the hell pulled that extra mob?!"

 

"Why are we even tolerating this kind of behavior?!"

 

You've heard these. I know you have. Recruiting for a team and then hearing stuff like this makes one never want to recruit again. Hearing this stuff as a team member, even if you never dish it out, makes you never want to lead.

 

My own personal pain point is team members asking to join zone event teams and then immediately dropping that team when the leader isn't 50. Heaven forfend you don't get to use your incarnates for sixty seconds while the team leader tries to arrange things to make you level 50! It really makes leaders feel like complete and utter turds when people start demanding "Pass the star to a 50! Are you listening?! Pass the star!"

 

You weren't recruiting five minutes ago, Karen. You're going to start recruiting now? I'm trying to lead an event that no one else was willing to step up for, and now you're giving me hell for it?

 

👏 Stop. Punishing. Your. Teams. 👏

👏 Stop. Punishing. Your. Team. Leaders. 👏

[PeregrineFalcon]

2 hours ago, DrRocket said:

Wow, never experienced it or noticed it, what is this system you speak off? You got me curious and excited!

If you do not lead SF/TFs then you have to join them whenever you can, if they're even happening at all, which they often are not. If you lead SF/TSs then you get to get the rewards whenever you want, as often as you want.

 

Now this may sound like I'm just being a smartass, but I'm really not. If you lead TF/SFs regularly you'll get the rewards far more often than someone who doesn't, and you'll get them at a time that best works for your schedule.

[BrandX]

I've never really had issue making a TF...SF can be a bit more difficult because some people's aversion to villain side.  However, I think the real issue is there's few who want the lead position.  They want others to form them.

[DrRocket]

3 hours ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

If you do not lead SF/TFs then you have to join them whenever you can, if they're even happening at all, which they often are not. If you lead SF/TSs then you get to get the rewards whenever you want, as often as you want.

 

Now this may sound like I'm just being a smartass, but I'm really not. If you lead TF/SFs regularly you'll get the rewards far more often than someone who doesn't, and you'll get them at a time that best works for your schedule.

What rewards? You talking philosophical ones, like the satisfaction of completing one?

[DrRocket]

2 hours ago, BrandX said:

I've never really had issue making a TF...SF can be a bit more difficult because some people's aversion to villain side.  However, I think the real issue is there's few who want the lead position.  They want others to form them.

On the nose, and the reason for this thread! How we change the proportion of folks leading to just riding and letting someone else do all the work

[PeregrineFalcon]

1 minute ago, DrRocket said:

What rewards? You talking philosophical ones, like the satisfaction of completing one?

Don't you get Reward Merits as a reward for completing a TF/SF?

Edited September 7 by PeregrineFalcon
Spelling hard. Need more coffee.

[Rudra]

Just now, DrRocket said:

On the nose, and the reason for this thread! How we change the proportion of folks leading to just riding and letting someone else do all the work

I don't think you can. Pretty much anything that can be given to just the team leader for TFs/SFs is an exploit waiting to happen. Especially considering that most TFs and SFs can be soloed or duoed with ease.