Aggravated

[Shin Magmus]

     13 pages of people explaining to OP the concept of entitlement and how 2-way respect and communication work?  Based.

 

     I 100% visit Null to disable being debuffed by Group Slow Fly on every one of my characters.  It's annoying to have the onus continuously be put on everyone else but the Group Slow Fly user... the person creating the problem... but hey whatcha gonna do?  It's not like this thread ever resulted in agreement or understanding between the 2 parties, and it never will.  I wouldn't be surprised if the HC Powers Devs were looking at Group Fly with how often this comes up.

[Krimson]

3 hours ago, Shin Magmus said:

     13 pages of people explaining to OP the concept of entitlement and how 2-way respect and communication work?  Based.

 

     I 100% visit Null to disable being debuffed by Group Slow Fly on every one of my characters.  It's annoying to have the onus continuously be put on everyone else but the Group Slow Fly user... the person creating the problem... but hey whatcha gonna do?  It's not like this thread ever resulted in agreement or understanding between the 2 parties, and it never will.  I wouldn't be surprised if the HC Powers Devs were looking at Group Fly with how often this comes up.

People would rather dump on a player for using a built-in game mechanic than visit Null. They will ALWAYS consider this the other player's responsibility, and then act all surprised when someone with Group Fly shows up on their PuG because they can't be bothered to vet their groups. Or... they join a PuG expecting everyone to know their unwritten rules.

 

Keep in mind, that most of the people who gripe in these forums will NEVER be seen in a mission in-game. Use group fly if you want because the guy with the foul mouth is never going to be on your team, so his opinion doesn't matter.

[Skyhawke]

[Neiska]

10 minutes ago, Krimson said:

People would rather dump on a player for using a built-in game mechanic than visit Null. They will ALWAYS consider this the other player's responsibility, and then act all surprised when someone with Group Fly shows up on their PuG because they can't be bothered to vet their groups. Or... they join a PuG expecting everyone to know their unwritten rules.

 

Keep in mind, that most of the people who gripe in these forums will NEVER be seen in a mission in-game. Use group fly if you want because the guy with the foul mouth is never going to be on your team, so his opinion doesn't matter.

Normally, I might agree. But when you use a power that affects more than one person, it’s not just about you anymore. And it’s not on everyone’s else (especially mid-mission) to use the Null option.

 

Instead of being indignant and self centered, persons who are asked to turn it off by the team or leader should do so. Some teams may not mind it. I suspect most will. Personally, if a team leader asks me not to use a power, be it group fly or something else like fold space, then I don’t. That’s what being part of a team is. Even if such powers make YOU better, but is a detriment to everyone ELSE, then it’s a net loss. And it’s the leaders call to use it or not. And if you use it after being asked to stop, they are well within their right to remove you, because you are being a detriment to the team as a whole.

 

It can be argued that anyone who wishes to use group fly on teams without the risk of getting booted can make their own team. Which is far easier for everyone involved than automatically expecting/demanding everyone uses the Null so you can use an optional power that is actually a detriment to a great many builds and powers.

[Seed22]

4 hours ago, Shin Magmus said:

     13 pages of people explaining to OP the concept of entitlement and how 2-way respect and communication work?  Based.

 

     I 100% visit Null to disable being debuffed by Group Slow Fly on every one of my characters.  It's annoying to have the onus continuously be put on everyone else but the Group Slow Fly user... the person creating the problem... but hey whatcha gonna do?  It's not like this thread ever resulted in agreement or understanding between the 2 parties, and it never will.  I wouldn't be surprised if the HC Powers Devs were looking at Group Fly with how often this comes up.

It’s threads like these with people defending OP that remind me why I say this communit(the forums specifically) is easily as bad as WoW.*

 

I already said the ONE instance where the OP could potentially not be as liable for the boot, and thats if they used it at all throughout the TF and no one said anything. If thats not the case, then there is no defendable position. This is open shut right wrong.

 

*Actually worse. You expect selfish main character people in WoW with delusional senses of entitlement. There’s no pretense of a decent community there. 

Edited September 25 by Seed22

[lemming]

Fourteen pages and we're still at the "I can't change my position at all!" as the take away?

 

First Page, most people mentioned that the lead could have handled stuff better, but that if the team lead asks you, you've got a different choice.  It's not even about group fly at that point.  We don't know the specifics of the conversation other than the lead booted the OP when they declined to turn off GF.

 

Oddly enough, I got hit with GF on some trial and then wound up disabling it.  Then jumping into the hive later that day for a Hami and remembering why I had it enabled.  (thankfully I had 20 min of flight time still on a temp pack)

[kelika2]

On 9/21/2024 at 4:54 PM, Apogee said:

I really don't understand the dislike for Discord or other voice chat programs.

Power corrupts and when a discord mod gets mad things go sour.  also a breeding ground for mis info and drama.  if folks were as efficient as you there would not be a problem but no.  weird clique'ish crap starts forming like mold if left alone for too long

 

 

[Seed22]

7 minutes ago, kelika2 said:

Power corrupts and when a discord mod gets mad things go sour.  also a breeding ground for mis info and drama.  if folks were as efficient as you there would not be a problem but no.  weird clique'ish crap starts forming like mold if left alone for too long

 

 

Thats what I consider the forums. A breeding ground for misinformation and drama. Its why I stick to the discord

Edited September 25 by Seed22

[Nemu]

20 minutes ago, Seed22 said:

A breeding ground for misinformation and drama

Misinformation is everywhere. I don't like discord because of the ephemeral nature of content posted there. On the forums it can be a bit more sticky.

 

The few times I went to discord I didn't see any enablement/deeper explanations to questions being asked. most of the time it's just "here's a build!" with no further explanation. To me I see discord as the breeding ground for lazy people who aren't willing to learn/aren't willing to teach. But to be fair, I have very limited interaction with discord so I could be wrong.

[PeregrineFalcon]

42 minutes ago, lemming said:

Fourteen pages and we're still at the "I can't change my position at all!" as the take away?

Please tell me you're not surprised. Never admitting they're wrong and never changing their mind no matter what is said/shown is one of the defining features of the internet. Right here on this forum I linked to an article that showed people going to prison for gambling in the US and someone responded with "I don't care what you say you'll never get me to believe that gambling is illegal in the US." Make that make sense.

 

43 minutes ago, kelika2 said:

Power corrupts and when a discord mod gets mad things go sour.

Like that never happens on forums?

 

36 minutes ago, Seed22 said:

Thats what I consider the forums. A breeding ground for misinformation and drama. Its why I stick to the discord

You're wrong about that. I don't know about the discord but here on the forums there are quite a few people who will correct you, with proof, if you try to spread misinformation.

 

Also, most of the drama on this forums stems from internet peoples' inability to ever admit they are wrong. So, at least in that regard, it's no different than anywhere else on the internet.

[Shin Magmus]

2 hours ago, Krimson said:

People would rather dump on a player for using a built-in game mechanic than visit Null. They will ALWAYS consider this the other player's responsibility, and then act all surprised when someone with Group Fly shows up on their PuG because they can't be bothered to vet their groups. Or... they join a PuG expecting everyone to know their unwritten rules.

 

Keep in mind, that most of the people who gripe in these forums will NEVER be seen in a mission in-game. Use group fly if you want because the guy with the foul mouth is never going to be on your team, so his opinion doesn't matter.

     This is like the South Park episode where it's The Man's fault for not putting the toilet seat down but it's The Woman's fault for not looking down before blindly plopping their butt onto the toilet with no seat down: every single character in either group always insists that it's 100% the responsibility of the other group.

[Frostbiter]

3 minutes ago, Shin Magmus said:

     This is like the South Park episode where it's The Man's fault for not putting the toilet seat down but it's The Woman's fault for not looking down before blindly plopping their butt onto the toilet with no seat down: every single character in either group always insists that it's 100% the responsibility of the other group.

 

That's sort of a gray area. Now, if I sit down and the seat is wet someone is getting a whooping.

 

Edited September 25 by Frostbiter

[Neiska]

34 minutes ago, Frostbiter said:

 

That's sort of a gray area. Now, if I sit down and the seat is wet someone is getting a whooping.

 

 I heard you really have to watch out for sitting down before the last person gets up!

[Frostbiter]

12 minutes ago, Neiska said:

 I heard you really have to watch out for sitting down before the last person gets up!

 

That's what locks are for.

[ZemX]

2 hours ago, Seed22 said:

Thats what I consider the forums. A breeding ground for misinformation and drama. Its why I stick to the discord

 

What mechanisms exist on the Discord that prevent this misinformation and drama?

[lemming]

2 hours ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

Please tell me you're not surprised. Never admitting they're wrong and never changing their mind no matter what is said/shown is one of the defining features of the internet.

Having used it and it's precursor since the 80s,  No.   Disappointed, sure.

[shortguy on indom]

[Krimson]

12 minutes ago, shortguy on indom said:

I'm not the one joining PuGs and then complaining that I don't have the right players with the right playstyle. I have no trouble accomplishing my goals. I could care less if people feel like victims because a player using Group Fly has been inflicted upon them. That's THEIR problem.

[biostem]

This, again, all boils down to a lack of communication;  The OP didn't mention that they'd be using group fly, and thereby denied the other party members the chance to go and shut it off for themselves via Null, and the team leader didn't ask, either.  As others have mentioned, it removes agency from how other people play, and therefore, the onus really does fall mostly on the one with said power to give warning well in advance that they'd be using it...

[biostem]

4 hours ago, Shin Magmus said:

every single character in either group always insists that it's 100% the responsibility of the other group.

A big part of the discussion/argument also comes down to how to address the impasse - either everyone else goes to Null and deactivates the power, or 1 person just turns off the toggle...

[Ironblade]

44 minutes ago, Krimson said:

I could care less if people feel like victims because a player using Group Fly has been inflicted upon them. That's THEIR problem.

 

(shrug)  Maybe.  But it was the Group Fly user who got booted from the task force.  Seems like it was more their problem than the other players.

[Krimson]

What's really going to happen is NOTHING. What percentage of players read the forums, and what percentage of them are Group Fly users? So far, we have a confirmed ONE user of Group Fly in the game. The small amount of users in this thread might feel they have come to a consensus, and that's great. But what are they going to do with the consensus? How does the information get disseminated to the player base? I for one have no interest in telling other people how to play the game. Moreover, I would rather teach those people to use the ignore list than suffer angry mouthbreathers.

 

Everyone who runs and joins a Pick Up Group has the option to VET THE GROUP BEFORE JOINING. Maybe give that a try. Ask the important questions before commencing with a mission. And if you can't find a group that means your conditions, the damned mission yourself. Problem solved.

[Seed22]

5 hours ago, ZemX said:

 

What mechanisms exist on the Discord that prevent this misinformation and drama?

Usually a more active GM and immediate mod team, least from what I experienced.

 

Plus usually having a lot more experienced and knowledgeable players on the discord help quell lots, but definitely not all misinfo in real time. 
 

Edited September 26 by Seed22

[Snarky]

16 hours ago, Krimson said:

People would rather dump on a player for using a built-in game mechanic than visit Null. They will ALWAYS consider this the other player's responsibility, and then act all surprised when someone with Group Fly shows up on their PuG because they can't be bothered to vet their groups. Or... they join a PuG expecting everyone to know their unwritten rules.

 

Keep in mind, that most of the people who gripe in these forums will NEVER be seen in a mission in-game. Use group fly if you want because the guy with the foul mouth is never going to be on your team, so his opinion doesn't matter.

Your logic is not correct.  I game as often as time allows ( which is less lately, but still…) and i run in pugs.  And i can only assume many think i am foul mouthed.  
 

now, it could be argued my opinion does not matter for reasons other than i will not be on the team.  
 

i am against the group fly power ( but i always kill it at null). And i fly all the time.  

[Maelwys]

(Also FWIW, there have been substantially more than one user of Group Fly commenting within this thread. Although if you're only counting the ones who have stated they would refuse to turn off Group Fly if asked to by their Team Leader...?)