Permahasten via Force Feedback (also Cross Punch)

[Hero Star]

While using Mids, does anyone have a minimum recharge time for Hasten, if you're wanting it perma, but also relying on Force Feedback to make it so?

 

Also, can someone explain Cross Punch's recharge benefit? Does it proc every so often? Is it 10% Recharge for 10s, where FF is 100% for 5s?

[ZemX]

Without delving too deep into maddening math, the short answer you can find with a little searching for perma-hasten is that you need +275% recharge to make Hasten permanent.  70% of that can come from Hasten itself IF it is perma, so let's just assume that and work from there.   You now need +205%.   If you slot roughly 100% recharge enhancement in Hasten, then this number drops to 105%.  That's the amount you need to add to your build with global recharge via set bonuses, Incarnates, buffs, whatever.

 

Force Feedback is an odd duck to account for though because of its unreliable nature.  But I recall seeing someone once claim that you can use, as a rule of thumb, the notion that a single FF:Recharge IO is often about equivalent to a single LotG:+recharge IO.   In other words, about 7.5% global recharge, give or take.  That's assuming you regularly use in an attack chain, whatever power you have the FF:rech IO (or IOs) slotted in.  

 

So tally each FF:rech and multiply by 7.5%.  Same for each LotG:+rech.  Then all your set bonuses.  

 

As for Cross Punch, yes, it's +10% for 6 seconds.  While it CAN self-stack, you have to ask yourself how much you're really going to be using it.  Are you even going to be able to use it once per 6 seconds?  Then count it as a +10% global recharge.    Once per 12 seconds?  Figure just 5% then towards your perma-hasten goal.

 

This is rough, but it will get you close enough to take it for a spin and see how you are doing.

[Hero Star]

1 hour ago, ZemX said:

Without delving too deep into maddening math, the short answer you can find with a little searching for perma-hasten is that you need +275% recharge to make Hasten permanent.  70% of that can come from Hasten itself IF it is perma, so let's just assume that and work from there.   You now need +205%.   If you slot roughly 100% recharge enhancement in Hasten, then this number drops to 105%.  That's the amount you need to add to your build with global recharge via set bonuses, Incarnates, buffs, whatever.

 

Force Feedback is an odd duck to account for though because of its unreliable nature.  But I recall seeing someone once claim that you can use, as a rule of thumb, the notion that a single FF:Recharge IO is often about equivalent to a single LotG:+recharge IO.   In other words, about 7.5% global recharge, give or take.  That's assuming you regularly use in an attack chain, whatever power you have the FF:rech IO (or IOs) slotted in.  

 

So tally each FF:rech and multiply by 7.5%.  Same for each LotG:+rech.  Then all your set bonuses.  

 

As for Cross Punch, yes, it's +10% for 6 seconds.  While it CAN self-stack, you have to ask yourself how much you're really going to be using it.  Are you even going to be able to use it once per 6 seconds?  Then count it as a +10% global recharge.    Once per 12 seconds?  Figure just 5% then towards your perma-hasten goal.

 

This is rough, but it will get you close enough to take it for a spin and see how you are doing.

Does Cross Punch always trigger +Recharge when using it?

 

I guess I'm not wrapping my head around how FF can be compared to LotG. I guess what I'm wanting to find out is: what do I need to have my Hasten recharge at (in seconds) + how many seconds before Hasten deactivates do I need FF to pop off in order to have its recharge reset. 

 

Sorry if that's confusing lol. And maybe I'm not thinking about it the right way.

[ZemX]

3 minutes ago, Hero Star said:

Does Cross Punch always trigger +Recharge when using it?

 

Yes. 100% chance and stacks with existing effect.  Have a look here for the RechargeTime effect on the right side of the page.

https://cod.uberguy.net./html/power.html?power=pool.fighting.cross_punch

 

4 minutes ago, Hero Star said:

I guess I'm not wrapping my head around how FF can be compared to LotG. I guess what I'm wanting to find out is: what do I need to have my Hasten recharge at (in seconds) + how many seconds before Hasten deactivates do I need FF to pop off in order to have its recharge reset. 

 

FF:rech is a small burst of speed whereas LotG:rech is a constant speed increase.   But what we know is the total amount of constant speed improvement we need to make Hasten recharge in 120s thus making it "perma".   So converting FF:rech's small speed bursts into the equivalent long-term constant speed  boost lets us add it together with all other sources of +recharge to arrive at the required amount of recharge you need.

 

But it's tricky.  Think of your base 100% recharge speed then assume you get one FF:recharge every minute.   It lasts for 5 seconds.  So now, instead of a constant 100% recharge over that minute you now have 5 seconds of 200% recharge followed by 55 seconds of normal 100% recharge.  (5x200 + 55x100) / 60 gives us the weighted average of 108.33.  In other words, that one proc was the same as a +8.3% constant recharge boost would be over the same one minute time period.  So 1ppm for FF:Recharge is slightly better than a single LotG:+rech IO.  

 

But you can almost certainly do better than one FF:Rech per minute, even in one power and especially in an AoE.  The proc doesn't stack, ever, but it replaces itself if it occurs while already in effect refreshing the duration.   So that makes it tricky again to precisely calculate its overall effect.  But you don't really need to be that precise.   So thinking of a single FF:rech as being close to a single LotG:Rech is probably underestimating its effects by quite a bit.  The key really is trying to determine how many times in the two minutes Hasten is up and running, do you get those 5 second bursts of speed from FF:rech.  Then yoiu can calculate how much those FF:Rech procs are "worth" compared to all the other recharge you need to make Hasten perma.

 

Hopefully that made more sense.  It's not all that straightforward, I'm afraid.

[Hero Star]

53 minutes ago, ZemX said:

 

Yes. 100% chance and stacks with existing effect.  Have a look here for the RechargeTime effect on the right side of the page.

https://cod.uberguy.net./html/power.html?power=pool.fighting.cross_punch

 

 

FF:rech is a small burst of speed whereas LotG:rech is a constant speed increase.   But what we know is the total amount of constant speed improvement we need to make Hasten recharge in 120s thus making it "perma".   So converting FF:rech's small speed bursts into the equivalent long-term constant speed  boost lets us add it together with all other sources of +recharge to arrive at the required amount of recharge you need.

 

But it's tricky.  Think of your base 100% recharge speed then assume you get one FF:recharge every minute.   It lasts for 5 seconds.  So now, instead of a constant 100% recharge over that minute you now have 5 seconds of 200% recharge followed by 55 seconds of normal 100% recharge.  (5x200 + 55x100) / 60 gives us the weighted average of 108.33.  In other words, that one proc was the same as a +8.3% constant recharge boost would be over the same one minute time period.  So 1ppm for FF:Recharge is slightly better than a single LotG:+rech IO.  

 

But you can almost certainly do better than one FF:Rech per minute, even in one power and especially in an AoE.  The proc doesn't stack, ever, but it replaces itself if it occurs while already in effect refreshing the duration.   So that makes it tricky again to precisely calculate its overall effect.  But you don't really need to be that precise.   So thinking of a single FF:rech as being close to a single LotG:Rech is probably underestimating its effects by quite a bit.  The key really is trying to determine how many times in the two minutes Hasten is up and running, do you get those 5 second bursts of speed from FF:rech.  Then yoiu can calculate how much those FF:Rech procs are "worth" compared to all the other recharge you need to make Hasten perma.

 

Hopefully that made more sense.  It's not all that straightforward, I'm afraid.

I see where you're coming from I think. However, unless the power you're wanting to benefit from FF completes recharge within FF's proc, it reverts the timer back to where it would be without the proc. 

 

In Mids, I see that if I get Hasten down to 163s (175% recharge from bonuses without FF) and then activate FF its at 120s (275% recharge). So would that mean if I proc FF when Hasten has 43s left it will get Hasten to recharge itself full? I feel like I'm missing something else.

[MoonSheep]

i would say that trying to get perma hasten through using FF as the stopgap is going to be stressful and you’ll feel like you’re constantly spinning plates 

 

hasten is nice, but it’s not world ending to wait a few seconds for it to recharge

[Snarky]

I never tried it. I could be wrong. But slapping Force Feedback into every power that can take it seems… counterproductive 

[tidge]

9 hours ago, MoonSheep said:

i would say that trying to get perma hasten through using FF as the stopgap is going to be stressful and you’ll feel like you’re constantly spinning plates 

 

hasten is nice, but it’s not world ending to wait a few seconds for it to recharge

 

This was well-put. I was trying to think of a polite way to express how I got to the point where Hasten is one of the very last powers on the menu that I consider for any given build. I experimented with using the Force Feedback %+Recharge to cross into the 'perma-Hasten' regime... and while it works, it was more of a PITA to keep executing whatever power(s) than it was to not sweat if it wasn't perma.

 

I used to think there were two in-play reasons to chase perma-Hasten, but I'm pretty much only down to (half of) one: The character must have an attack chain consisting of (pretty much) only longish recharge time attacks and needs absurd levels of global recharge to make that specific chain "smooth". I'm discounting this, because most ATs will end up having to take inherently fast-recharging 'attacks' at low levels... but I can imagine not wanting to add them to attack chains (even though many such attacks offer other benefits besides Damage).

 

The second reason that I no longer bother with recommending perma-Hasten was for when a player had some signature power with such an extremely long recharge time. The problem that I see it is that such powers typically won't recharge faster than (perma) Hasten, so its like Hasten is the signature power... and Hasten won't do much more (in my general play experience), except for the case I mentioned above. (perma) Domination is sort of a special case, but most Dominators can get to perma-Dom levels of recharge without Hasten or the FF %+Recharge. For permaDom, its more (IMO) picking which build constraint you want to live with.

 

2 hours ago, Snarky said:

I never tried it. I could be wrong. But slapping Force Feedback into every power that can take it seems… counterproductive 

 

It definitely was for me. Better to invest in refreshing SG base buffs to increase attack speed, IMO.

 

[AlwaysAPrice]

This just got me curious so I jumped on a character of mine that I know gets a lot out of Force Feedback but doesn't have the extreme recharge slotting needed for perma-Hasten without it. She's an Ice/SJ tank with 65% global recharge and the Force Feedback proc in Spinning Strike. She's normally pretty close to perma-Hasten because she uses Spiritual, which gives Hasten itself recharge past the ED cap, but I unslotted the Alpha for this test. Without the Alpha, Hasten's recharge upon activation (2 50+5 IOs and 135% global recharge active) was 136 seconds. Jumped in a farm map for a target-rich environment for Spinning Strike and, activating Hasten just before I put Strike on auto, Hasten ended up recharging in a bit under 118 seconds. Before I remembered to unslot the Alpha I tested it against one of the dummies outside the RWZ base, and with just the single target so much less frequent FF procs, I only shaved off about 4 seconds.

 

So if you have the circumstances for a high uptime on Force Feedback, through AoEs and/or longer-recharge powers (I get a lot out of putting it in epic Energy Torrent on other characters), a single one can potentially make up for a 40% shortfall in global recharge, but if it's only going to be in effect a couple times a minute it has much, much less of an impact.

[ZemX]

12 hours ago, Hero Star said:

I see where you're coming from I think. However, unless the power you're wanting to benefit from FF completes recharge within FF's proc, it reverts the timer back to where it would be without the proc. 

 

Not true.  Think of Hasten's recharge timer like an hourglass with sand running through it.  And you've got a control knob that can widen or narrow the "waist" in the middle of the hourglass.   FF:rech is like twisting that knob to widen that waist, at a random moment, and leaving it that way for 5 seconds, then putting it back where it was.  That sand does not run back up the hourglass.  While it was open wider, more sand ran through it.  That's all.  You are, for a short five seconds, speeding up that clock so that it runs down faster.  There is now less sand in the top of the hourglass than there would have been if you hadn't turned that knob briefly.

 

But I see where you're coming from.  In game what you might see if you've changed your recharge timers to show numbers on each power, is that when FF:rech pops, that number changes suddenly to a lower number.  Then when FF:rech drops, it might even appear to go up to a higher number.   But here's what is happening: The recharge timers just show how much time is left to recharge that timer based on your total recharge buffs right now.  There's no way for the timer to  know that two seconds from now a +100% recharge buff will hit and last for 5 seconds.  When it does happen, the game recalculates assuming that +100% buff is going to last forever.  Key point here is that yes, the timer appears to jump back upwards, but it is not going back up to where it would have been at this moment, if the FF:rech had not fired off.  It's still a lower timer value than it would have been without the proc firing 5 seconds ago.  To put it another way, if you kept counting down in your head for those 5 seconds, you'd find that more than 5 seconds had been removed from the clock because the FF:rech fired.

 

Mid's is the same way. If you check the little yellow bubble that says the proc is active, it adds +100% recharge and calculates all recharge times as if you had that +100% for the entire time the power was recharging.  If you look at the window that shows totals for "misc buffs" you'll see you have an absurdly high global recharge rate.  If you want to look at your real recharge rate, you have to uncheck all the proc bubbles for powers where you have FF:rech slotted.  Mid's can't tell you how much benefit FF:Rech actually provides because it depends on too many variables.: How often will you activate that power during Hasten's effect?  How many enemies will you hit with it each time so we can calculate how many procs to expect?  What if one proc overlaps with itself, cancelling out some of its 5 second duration.  This is why I said the math was a bit maddening before. 

 

What Mid's could do is ask you how many times per minute you expect all your FF:rech procs to fire and then calculate the effective constant rech boost just like I mentioned in previous posts.  It still wouldn't be exact, but it would be more useful.

 

12 hours ago, MoonSheep said:

i would say that trying to get perma hasten through using FF as the stopgap is going to be stressful and you’ll feel like you’re constantly spinning plates 

 

hasten is nice, but it’s not world ending to wait a few seconds for it to recharge

 

This is why I say treat it like it's a rather decent but much smaller +recharge.  Like 10% or 15% maybe.  And then forget that it's even in there.  Stop watching your buff bar like a hawk to see when it's icon is popping up there (I am guilty of this myself btw).   Hasten's recharge will vary exactly by how successfully it procs, but it's not important WHEN it procs.  It matters how many times and, like you said, whether it procs 3 times or 4 while Hasten is recharging has little practical effect except occasionally noticing a few seconds more gap in Hasten's uptime.  There's nothing wrong with that.  You still got the benefit of Hasten's boosted recharge for the last two minutes.   

[The Trouble]

2 hours ago, tidge said:

 

This was well-put. I was trying to think of a polite way to express how I got to the point where Hasten is one of the very last powers on the menu that I consider for any given build. I experimented with using the Force Feedback %+Recharge to cross into the 'perma-Hasten' regime... and while it works, it was more of a PITA to keep executing whatever power(s) than it was to not sweat if it wasn't perma.

 

I used to think there were two in-play reasons to chase perma-Hasten, but I'm pretty much only down to (half of) one: The character must have an attack chain consisting of (pretty much) only longish recharge time attacks and needs absurd levels of global recharge to make that specific chain "smooth". I'm discounting this, because most ATs will end up having to take inherently fast-recharging 'attacks' at low levels... but I can imagine not wanting to add them to attack chains (even though many such attacks offer other benefits besides Damage).

 

The second reason that I no longer bother with recommending perma-Hasten was for when a player had some signature power with such an extremely long recharge time. The problem that I see it is that such powers typically won't recharge faster than (perma) Hasten, so its like Hasten is the signature power... and Hasten won't do much more (in my general play experience), except for the case I mentioned above. (perma) Domination is sort of a special case, but most Dominators can get to perma-Dom levels of recharge without Hasten or the FF %+Recharge. For permaDom, its more (IMO) picking which build constraint you want to live with.

 

 

It definitely was for me. Better to invest in refreshing SG base buffs to increase attack speed, IMO.

 

On Live, I chased perma-Hasten on nearly every character.  Nowadays, I have that kind of recharge on (I think) 3 characters.

1.  An Illusion/Dark Controller for that constant Phantom Army goodness, and stacking Tar Patch.
2. A Fire/Time Blaster that has the choice of either a single-target attack chain, or an AoE attack chain.  Only the heaviest of hitters apply.
3.  An Invulnerability/Super Strength proc-monster Tanker with Knockout Blow recharging in about 7 seconds.  FF:Recharge is relied upon to get there, just like we're discussing here.

I firmly agree with the sentiment you've said here regarding perma-Dom, but with every character: Build/compromise for as much passive Global Recharge as you can without leaning on Hasten.  I almost resent the power, now.  It flushes a chuck of Endurance down the drain at the worst times, and it's just another thing I have to worry about activating.  I could put it on auto... but then something even cooler can't benefit from being automatic.

 

Anyway, this may be the longest way I've ever said: "I agree with almost* everything in your post."

 

*If Hasten is too much of a bother for me, then you bet I'm much too lazy to head back to my SG to refresh buffs 🙂 

[Erratic1]

38 minutes ago, ZemX said:

Not true.

 

What @Hero Star said is what I have noticed as goes its behavior. If the power does not recharge during the FF proc its recharge time reverts to what it would have been had FF not proc'd.

[Hero Star]

5 hours ago, ZemX said:

 

Not true.  Think of Hasten's recharge timer like an hourglass with sand running through it.  And you've got a control knob that can widen or narrow the "waist" in the middle of the hourglass.   FF:rech is like twisting that knob to widen that waist, at a random moment, and leaving it that way for 5 seconds, then putting it back where it was.  That sand does not run back up the hourglass.  While it was open wider, more sand ran through it.  That's all.  You are, for a short five seconds, speeding up that clock so that it runs down faster.  There is now less sand in the top of the hourglass than there would have been if you hadn't turned that knob briefly.

 

But I see where you're coming from.  In game what you might see if you've changed your recharge timers to show numbers on each power, is that when FF:rech pops, that number changes suddenly to a lower number.  Then when FF:rech drops, it might even appear to go up to a higher number.   But here's what is happening: The recharge timers just show how much time is left to recharge that timer based on your total recharge buffs right now.  There's no way for the timer to  know that two seconds from now a +100% recharge buff will hit and last for 5 seconds.  When it does happen, the game recalculates assuming that +100% buff is going to last forever.  Key point here is that yes, the timer appears to jump back upwards, but it is not going back up to where it would have been at this moment, if the FF:rech had not fired off.  It's still a lower timer value than it would have been without the proc firing 5 seconds ago.  To put it another way, if you kept counting down in your head for those 5 seconds, you'd find that more than 5 seconds had been removed from the clock because the FF:rech fired.

 

Mid's is the same way. If you check the little yellow bubble that says the proc is active, it adds +100% recharge and calculates all recharge times as if you had that +100% for the entire time the power was recharging.  If you look at the window that shows totals for "misc buffs" you'll see you have an absurdly high global recharge rate.  If you want to look at your real recharge rate, you have to uncheck all the proc bubbles for powers where you have FF:rech slotted.  Mid's can't tell you how much benefit FF:Rech actually provides because it depends on too many variables.: How often will you activate that power during Hasten's effect?  How many enemies will you hit with it each time so we can calculate how many procs to expect?  What if one proc overlaps with itself, cancelling out some of its 5 second duration.  This is why I said the math was a bit maddening before. 

 

What Mid's could do is ask you how many times per minute you expect all your FF:rech procs to fire and then calculate the effective constant rech boost just like I mentioned in previous posts.  It still wouldn't be exact, but it would be more useful.

 

 

This is why I say treat it like it's a rather decent but much smaller +recharge.  Like 10% or 15% maybe.  And then forget that it's even in there.  Stop watching your buff bar like a hawk to see when it's icon is popping up there (I am guilty of this myself btw).   Hasten's recharge will vary exactly by how successfully it procs, but it's not important WHEN it procs.  It matters how many times and, like you said, whether it procs 3 times or 4 while Hasten is recharging has little practical effect except occasionally noticing a few seconds more gap in Hasten's uptime.  There's nothing wrong with that.  You still got the benefit of Hasten's boosted recharge for the last two minutes.   

Thank you for your time in explaining this. I didn't actually calculate if it reverted the timer back to where it would be. I just assumed since it went back up. I'll have to play around with it.

 

I understand some builds not needing permaHasten, and if I get to that point with mine, great! I'm running a Stone Melee scrapper right now who's only level 30 so I still have time to build and experiment. Stone Melee has fairly long recharge times compared to some sets, so recharge is important to me to get a good chain down.

 

Thanks everyone! I'll let you all know what I end up figure out when I build it out!

[Yomo Kimyata]

My first (and very honest) question is why hasten needs to be permanent?  If I've got Hasten on auto-activate, then ideally I'd like to keep it up constantly.  But is it really going to harsh your buzz if it's down for a few seconds while you mash some other buttons?  

 

The FF+recharge proc is a wonderful, magical creature.  In theory, can you keep it up constantly?  Sure, in theory.  I will always use it in a AoE KD power, like Crowd Control.  When you are fighting large groups, the proc will check its chance to activate against every opponent, so it triggers A LOT.  But as you winnow down the enemies and are only fighting one then your chances will drop and it will not trigger very much at all.  

[ZemX]

5 hours ago, Erratic1 said:

If the power does not recharge during the FF proc its recharge time reverts to what it would have been had FF not proc'd.

 

It doesn't really.  Yes, it appears to jump the timer back upward when the FF proc expires, but it does not really jump all the way back up to where it would have been had the FF proc never fired.  If that were the case, the proc would be almost entirely useless.

[tidge]

21 hours ago, Hero Star said:

I understand some builds not needing permaHasten, and if I get to that point with mine, great! I'm running a Stone Melee scrapper right now who's only level 30 so I still have time to build and experiment. Stone Melee has fairly long recharge times compared to some sets, so recharge is important to me to get a good chain down.

 

Once a melee character has the attack chain slotted (with enhancement sets) things are much smoother. If you are committed to trying to achieve perma-Hasten, you will almost certainly be leveraging both Purple set bonuses and LotG... at which point you are likely to discover you don't need Hasten.

[AlwaysAPrice]

21 hours ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

My first (and very honest) question is why hasten needs to be permanent?

 

It rarely needs to be, but I think the main purpose of planning a build is to seek consistency in that build's performance. If the recharges of the powers in whatever ideal attack chains I've figured out only line up sustainably while Hasten is toggled in the planner, then to be able to perform that efficiently as regularly as possible I want to be hastened as close to constantly as possible. There's also goals like perma-Dom where I think you don't always quite need perma-Hasten to keep it up but it sure helps, by giving you a larger window between recharge and expiration to refresh Domination in, as more precarious timing on that is easily thrown off by long power animations or recharge debuffing enemies.

[tidge]

38 minutes ago, AlwaysAPrice said:

There's also goals like perma-Dom where I think you don't always quite need perma-Hasten to keep it up but it sure helps, by giving you a larger window between recharge and expiration to refresh Domination in, as more precarious timing on that is easily thrown off by long power animations or recharge debuffing enemies.

 

My experience with Dominators have been this: If a Dominator needs Hasten to be perma in order to perma-Dom, then the build with perma-Hasten almost certainly doesn't need perma-Hasten... because the window between enough recharge for both perma-Hasten and perma-Domination is such that Hasten needs more global recharge, even if most of that extra will have to dome from Hasten itself.

 

In other words: A Dominator relying on Hasten for perma-Dom probably doesn't have to have Hasten actually be perma. Obviously there are things like enemy slows.

 

It was mentioned above by @The Trouble that Hasten will eventually have to have its Endurance cost paid. For my Dominators (which don't rely on Hasten for perma-Dom) just having enough global recharge for perma-Dom means that my attacks/controls are getting spammed at a rate where the blue bar is almost empty by the time Domination fires, refilling the blue bar. I suppose I could have some alternate attack chain with Hasten in play, but then I'd almost certainly burn the entire blue bar and take eventually the hit from Hasten. I tend to think of perma-Hasten as a build trap.

 

I definitely have at least one Dominator with Hasten as a late-level pick, specifically to address potential enemy slows/-Recharge. My other Dominators don't have that trouble, either because of other build choices or perhaps something about the controls those Dominators have or the way they are used.

 

I also want to echo what other players have written about putting Hasten on perma-cast at the cost of not having another power on auto. Yes, I am aware of binds to alternate between different powers, but I find that to be a sloppy fix for what I consider to generally be poor build choices. There are a significant number of non-attack powers that work as clicks which are incredibly useful to have on auto. One such power that I always keep on auto is Inner Will from the Blaster Secondary Martial Combat. This is a power that can only be used in certain circumstances, so having it on auto allows my Blasters to keep on blasting. Sometimes it's triggered by some trivial short-duration control, but nonetheless it provides breathing room when I need it.

[Sovera]

I had a Claws/Bio Scrapper I would use to power level my alts back when I still did this. One thing I noticed about this behaviour was that roughly 15 seconds was the cut off. So as to say if the recharge was 136 seconds-ish then nonstop fighting as is usual in a farm map would just barely squeak by into having Hasten recharge.

 

So, two caveats:

 

A) Nonstop combat does not happen outside of combat. Even being fast we still run from spawn to spawn and/or have to take elevators.

 

B) Claws was particularly well suited for FF procage with an AoE that could slot it and sure it went off by dint of multiple attempts per mob, and then a back-up in Focus.

[Riverdusk]

Don't forget you can also use a SG buff table to get +20% recharge for 90 mins at a time for 3 cheap pieces of salvage.  I find it makes building for perma hasten a lot easier to say the least (or perma dom).  Popping into a SG base once every 90 mins or so I find pretty easy (don't think it even has to be a SG base you have any special permissions for as long as they have a buff table).

[roleki]

On 10/5/2024 at 3:49 AM, Snarky said:

I never tried it. I could be wrong. But slapping Force Feedback into every power that can take it seems… counterproductive 

FF+Rech on 3 powers is effectively perma FF+Rech in combat.  If you slot FF+Rech in more than 3 powers, you stupid when you do that, just some English pig with no brain at all you know... all bad.  You do that, you go to the box, you know, two minutes by yourself, and you feel shame, you know.  And then you get free.

[Hero Star]

On 10/5/2024 at 4:09 PM, ZemX said:

 

It doesn't really.  Yes, it appears to jump the timer back upward when the FF proc expires, but it does not really jump all the way back up to where it would have been had the FF proc never fired.  If that were the case, the proc would be almost entirely useless.

I finally tested this out today. I set a timer on my phone for 1min 30s. Once Hasten hit 1min 30s of recharge left, I started the timer. I had the FF proc fire off, let it run out, and then compared the recharge time on Hasten to my timer. It always reverted back in sync with my timer. I had the FF proc fire off around 4-5 times during that 1min 30s. By the end of it It they were both the same. Maybe I am misunderstanding what you meant.

 

I don't think its useless, but I still have a lot to learn with the Battle Axe/Bio I'm leveling. It definitely helps to chain my attacks faster until I get set bonuses. On my ST chain I can get almost perma-FF. On my AOE chain, its less, since I still have lots on recharge slotted in those attacks. I'm still working out what kind of benefit it has I longer recharge powers, like the ones in Bio, but I think @Sovera touched on this in his above post.

[Uncle Shags]

Similar to some others here, I tested out my battle axe with multiple ff (3 I think) against a pylon.  My non-perma hasten was only sped up by a few seconds, and remained non-perma. I then took the ff out and replaced them with other stuff that seemed to have more impact. 

 

As suggested, maybe a confounding variable was aoe vs st environment. 

[Sovera]

1 hour ago, Hero Star said:

I finally tested this out today. I set a timer on my phone for 1min 30s. Once Hasten hit 1min 30s of recharge left, I started the timer. I had the FF proc fire off, let it run out, and then compared the recharge time on Hasten to my timer. It always reverted back in sync with my timer. I had the FF proc fire off around 4-5 times during that 1min 30s. By the end of it It they were both the same. Maybe I am misunderstanding what you meant.

 

I don't think its useless, but I still have a lot to learn with the Battle Axe/Bio I'm leveling. It definitely helps to chain my attacks faster until I get set bonuses. On my ST chain I can get almost perma-FF. On my AOE chain, its less, since I still have lots on recharge slotted in those attacks. I'm still working out what kind of benefit it has I longer recharge powers, like the ones in Bio, but I think @Sovera touched on this in his above post.

 

 

Simplest way to check is see how long Hasten still has when its icon disappears. If it disappears, at, say, 15 seconds left on the recharge, then try again but this time non-stop fighting a pylon and see how much is shaved from those 15 seconds by the time it disappears again.

[Sanguinesun]

On 10/5/2024 at 4:49 PM, Snarky said:

I never tried it. I could be wrong. But slapping Force Feedback into every power that can take it seems… counterproductive 

 

Indeed. with +recharge cap at +300%, FF's ppm, and more just make it not as efficient as some may think to put FF in any power it can take.  2-3 is often more than enough for most builds, if that.   

 

Its all a maths dance anyway, faster recharge of powers means more end use.  Too much focus on such can diminish the damage and or other aspects of the toon to make them more capable as well.    This is as you and most of us know that people for years delve into the min/maxing and math play with mids or on the test server to come up with what they think is the best(though mids is becoming more and more unreliable sadly with its spaghetti code too(Just yesterday I was toggling and toggling a power on mids and it was causing the stats to almost never consistently give the same numbers from on/off as one would expect that it should.  I've even found in the past(and let the mids folks know, recharge % value bugs too.  It is what it is as the volume of care needed to replace it with something else is only what a quantum AI would likely be willing to tackle. 😛