Power farming for XP vs Influence

[Crysis]

I’ve seen a great many posts on great AE farm maps with most of the emphasis being placed on influence gain per hour.  But I pretty much only active farm right now to Powerlevel/Powerfarm new alts.  Of course with those the Double XP tokens speed that up considerably.

 

But the other kind of power farming I do is grinding out Empyreans and Threads once I achieve 50+3 status.  The fastest way to earn Incarnate salvage is to speed-run Heather’s DA  arc….typically can be done in under 10 mins by most toons if focus is on objectives only.  ITF runs are also great for grinding out XP and threads post 50.  
 

I have some 50’s who have T4’d out all Incarnat powers before vet level 8 just running Heathers arc repeatedly.  
 

But I’ve always wondered….whats the absolute max XP per hour achievable in the game for a solo player in the post 50 levels? 
 

But solo 50+ whatever (once all slots unlocked) without using Experienced boosters….whats the best XP per hour achievable outside of AE?

 

Outside of soloing, what about League events, TF’s  or Trials for best XP per hour?  Kill all TinPex seems pretty good to me but still interested in solo methods.

Edited October 15 by Crysis

[Maelwys]

Honestly, running Incarnate Content (so those DA Arcs) at x4/8 is probably your best bet if you're all T3+ and your damage mitigation isn't totally lopsided.
The increased kill speed from all the Incarnate Level Shifts more than offsets the greater mob density on AE Farms.

Non-Incarnate-System drops are better on AE Farms, no question. And you don't need to be T3ed or have a range of survivability and utility powers to pull maximum clear speed in custom AE maps (Travel Powers and Fold Space can really help in the DA missions IIRC; and they deal a range of damage types unlike AE) but I'm pretty sure raw XP/Hour can be pushed much higher outside the holodeck.

As a totally non-definitive example; I recently took my mostly-T3'ed-with-a-few-T4 AFK-Fire-Farming RadMelee/StoneArmor Brute through the DA contact arcs; and I intentionally left the difficulty set to x4/x8 in order to see if they'd be able to cope OK with the mobs' non-Fire-typed damage and higher ToHit rate.
They did just fine; and their vet level climbed just as fast if not faster than in AE maps, despite me not charging through the arcs at anything resembling a breakneck pace.

(and I believe @Bill Z Bubba settled on the DA arcs as the best method of quickly increasing his vet levels to 666 some time back...?)
 

Edited October 15 by Maelwys

[Crysis]

49 minutes ago, Maelwys said:

Honestly, running Incarnate Content (so those DA Arcs) at x4/8 is probably your best bet if you're all T3+ and your damage mitigation isn't totally lopsided.
The increased kill speed from all the Incarnate Level Shifts more than offsets the greater mob density on AE Farms.

Non-Incarnate-System drops are better on AE Farms, no question. And you don't need to be T3ed or have a range of survivability and utility powers to pull maximum clear speed in custom AE maps (Travel Powers and Fold Space can really help in the DA missions IIRC; and they deal a range of damage types unlike AE) but I'm pretty sure raw XP/Hour can be pushed much higher outside the holodeck.

As a totally non-definitive example; I recently took my mostly-T3'ed-with-a-few-T4 AFK-Fire-Farming RadMelee/StoneArmor Brute through the DA contact arcs; and I intentionally left the difficulty set to x4/x8 in order to see if they'd be able to cope OK with the mobs' non-Fire-typed damage and higher ToHit rate.
They did just fine; and their vet level climbed just as fast if not faster than in AE maps, despite me not charging through the arcs at anything resembling a breakneck pace.

(and I believe @Bill Z Bubba settled on the DA arcs as the best method of quickly increasing his vet levels to 666 some time back...?)
 

Great info and I looked for Bills older posts on this some time ago but couldn’t find it.

 

Ever measured XP rates doing this?  I just started and thus far fastest was 1 vet level (5.608mm cp) in about 20 mins.  But the map I was on was a cave so lots of moving around required.  Office tile set seem like it would be faster.  This was on a MM at +4/x8.

 

 

[Glacier Peak]

The Labyrinth of the Fog raid is the best league reward content now if measured by Reward Merit and Levels gained per hour.

 

I made 126 Reward Merits in 27 minutes on Indomitable doing the raid last night (Fogs, then Minotaur, then Achyls+GMs). I made even more within the hour before the Minotaur reset thanks to all the GM spawns that continued after we defeated Achyls. There was prep time involved though so someone can skewer my data. 

Edited October 15 by Glacier Peak

[Without_Pause]

1 hour ago, Crysis said:

Great info and I looked for Bills older posts on this some time ago but couldn’t find it.

I recently went looking for something and found said info as well, so I know it is there. I did a search for 666 and I see him talking about doing it, but not where he was discussing it being the best or not. 

[Maelwys]

1 hour ago, Crysis said:

Great info and I looked for Bills older posts on this some time ago but couldn’t find it.

A quick look throws up these:

(Bill also mentions gaining roughly 1 vet level every 20mins, although as that was on a Claws Scrapper and roughly 5 years ago at this point, I suspect it's going to be a smidge faster on an up to date optimized Tanker build?)
 

 

 

[Ukase]

Man, the original post takes me back. I remember getting quite hyped up when they thought about taking away the emp merits/vet levels in AE. At that time, I was so tired and weary of iTrials, aside from underground and magisterium, that if they took that away, I was going to really suffer. (Well, not REALLY suffer, but it was going to suck)

My play style now is so different from back then. I haven't farmed emp merits in a farm in 2 years maybe. A long time. I have 3 spines/fire farmers from before the AE -def changes that are maxed on converters. I also have 3 rad/fire brutes also maxed on converters...just in case I decide I need to farm. But, the way the game is for me now, there's just no need. 

I would see players on the same character with vet levels over 100, and not super high badge counts - like 500-800 or so. Enough where I could tell they were playing the character because they liked it, not for any other real reason. Sure, they would hustle reward merits like anyone else, but I don't think they needed them to fund their next alt. 

But, I digress too much. 
I have to echo @Glacier Peak's advice. I don't think there's anything in game that will outpace the murder room in the labyrinth. But that is for level 45+. Until you get there, play on indom where your 2xp from START stacks with the 2xp on indom. Then transfer to your server of choice. 

Just anecdotally, I got 2 vet levels (with some patrol xp) in about 40 minutes. That's just not done in any of my fire farms that I recall. (granted, they were afk farms) I don't think the labyrinth can be beat with the current mechanics in play. 

[Yomo Kimyata]

4 hours ago, Crysis said:

But I’ve always wondered….whats the absolute max XP per hour achievable in the game for a solo player in the post 50 levels? 

 

I don't know, but definitely use the Experienced power.

 

You may remember this power from such annual events as "Stop the Anniversary, I Want to Get Off!" and "Hero Packs:  Saints or Sinners?" where every character that logs in gets a temporary power with five charges.  When you activate it, it gives you five bars of patrol xp, which gives a bonus 50% experience for critter defeats.  This significantly increases your rate of xp accumulation, and it works like a charm for characters at level 50 seeking vet levels.  Five charges from the event power isn't much, but the Experienced power also drops from opening Hero/Winter packs at an average rate of about one every four packs.  If you can stand the tedium and cost of buying and opening several hundred packs, you'll end up with lots of charges of this power in your Character Items inventory, and you can pull the temp power off on any of your characters.

 

Experienced has a ten minute cooldown, and you can have both the power from log in events and from opening packs.  You cannot have more than ten bars of patrol xp, so activating the power when you currently have more than five bars is wasting it.  Anecdotally, doing regular missions on a scrapper at +4/x8 has me burning through those five bars (so half a vet level) in well under ten minutes, so I would expect that a truly optimized experience can have you gaining a vet level in ten minutes or less.

[Crysis]

Yeah I know the “performance enhancers” like Experienced tokens or moving over to Idom and the Labyrinth but I tend to view all those as modifiers to a “base value” and thus was looking to benchmark the methods thrown about as “uber XP per minute” and see if in fact the AE has been bested.  And in some ways it has been if you are a 50+2/3/4 in regular DA content it sounds like.

 

I was on a ToT league last week and everyone was earning a bunch of XP obviously but I didn’t really find it any faster than AE methods minus use of Experienced tokens.  Honestly the Lab seems like it’s likely that sweet spot but as pointed out it takes a bit to organize a group (and not many takers it seems).  I have solo’d in there to learn the ropes but of course I get selected and often get smashed.  Fun adrenaline rush though.  Nice to be “stalked” like that.

 

Just looking for other experiences/opinions.  Sounds like 1 vet level per 20 mins outside of AE and minus any “modifiers” is about the limit.  That’s what….280k per minute?  I’m guessing all Vet levels are same XP (5,608,000 xp)?

 

 

Edited October 15 by Crysis
Word

[Clave Dark 5]

Farming is boring.  See my sig quote and suggestions for how to have more fun in this game than mere farming.

[Apogee]

I know it may be hard to believe but some people actually enjoy farming.  Fun is different for different people.

[tidge]

1 hour ago, Crysis said:

I was on a ToT league last week and everyone was earning a bunch of XP obviously but I didn’t really find it any faster than AE methods minus use of Experienced tokens.  Honestly the Lab seems like it’s likely that sweet spot but as pointed out it takes a bit to organize a group (and not many takers it seems). 

 

ToT rewards are uneven. Setting aside the observable issue that it is very likely that some members of a ToT league probably don't have powers, or powers slotted, to significantly contribute to earning rewards... if the ToT league is interrupting ToT to fight Giant Monsters, the Giant Monsters may give merits, but the reward drops are otherwise terrible when compared to mass arrests(*1). Specific to ToT XP, it's the Elite Bosses that give beaucoup XP, and those are the ones least likely to be defeated if the league zips off to fight a Giant Monster.

 

(*1) This discrepancy in XP is one of the reasons why I shake my head at players who hunt for Giant Monsters accompanied by level-less mobiles. I've seen players desperate to fight something like a Paladin but won't bother with the clocks. Defeating all those clocks is not just more XP, but that many more rolls of the rewards table.

[Crysis]

1 hour ago, Clave Dark 5 said:

Farming is boring.  See my sig quote and suggestions for how to have more fun in this game than mere farming.

You’ll note that I specially wasn’t speaking to farming, especially not in the AE. 
 

But I do enjoy a good farming session on occasion.  It’s my Zen fix, far better than all the inane chatter happening during most large scale League events.

[Crysis]

30 minutes ago, tidge said:

 

ToT rewards are uneven. Setting aside the observable issue that it is very likely that some members of a ToT league probably don't have powers, or powers slotted, to significantly contribute to earning rewards... if the ToT league is interrupting ToT to fight Giant Monsters, the Giant Monsters may give merits, but the reward drops are otherwise terrible when compared to mass arrests(*1). Specific to ToT XP, it's the Elite Bosses that give beaucoup XP, and those are the ones least likely to be defeated if the league zips off to fight a Giant Monster.

 

(*1) This discrepancy in XP is one of the reasons why I shake my head at players who hunt for Giant Monsters accompanied by level-less mobiles. I've seen players desperate to fight something like a Paladin but won't bother with the clocks. Defeating all those clocks is not just more XP, but that many more rolls of the rewards table.

ToT leagues are almost always just large scale PUG’s.  There’s seldom any real cohesion with them I’ve found.  Half of the players often seem to be mostly AFK as well.  Just basically a loose amalgamation of murdering, badge/easyXP hungry hobos.

 

MSR’s and Hami and such at least have some semblance of planned effort.  I prefer those to mass PUG’s and typically spend most of October with SG mates or solo just to avoid the ToT altogether.  

[Glacier Peak]

Also, Windfall stacks with the already increased rewards in the Labyrinth. 

[Sanguinesun]

3 hours ago, Crysis said:

Yeah I know the “performance enhancers” like Experienced tokens or moving over to Idom and the Labyrinth but I tend to view all those as modifiers to a “base value” and thus was looking to benchmark the methods thrown about as “uber XP per minute” and see if in fact the AE has been bested.  And in some ways it has been if you are a 50+2/3/4 in regular DA content it sounds like.

 

I was on a ToT league last week and everyone was earning a bunch of XP obviously but I didn’t really find it any faster than AE methods minus use of Experienced tokens.  Honestly the Lab seems like it’s likely that sweet spot but as pointed out it takes a bit to organize a group (and not many takers it seems).  I have solo’d in there to learn the ropes but of course I get selected and often get smashed.  Fun adrenaline rush though.  Nice to be “stalked” like that.

 

Just looking for other experiences/opinions.  Sounds like 1 vet level per 20 mins outside of AE and minus any “modifiers” is about the limit.  That’s what….280k per minute?  I’m guessing all Vet levels are same XP (5,608,000 xp)?

 

 

 

 

Actually AE methods are going to be faster than tot per hour because of:

 

1. ToT teams having exp diluted from non leagued  leeches.

2. Dynamics of numbers of members per team changing often through out the hour(as exp goes up and down).

3. ToT teams that spend (sometimes more than tot'ing) time hunting GMs, which reduces the consistency of the tot exp.

4. Banners, zombie etc events that spawn and have much less exp.

 

etc etc.

 

Even the first week of April's mapserve event is actually faster exp overall(yes even with the zone/side transitions) than the halloween event.

 

For me, if exp optimizing is the core basis, then the compelling evidence still suggests AE is more by a considerable margin.

[Glacier Peak]

5 hours ago, Ukase said:

Then transfer to your server of choice. 

Ha just reread your post and saw this part - we've got plenty of reasons to stay on Indomitable, but I won't derail the thread any more than saying that while XP is nice, folks tend to stay on the shard because it's laid back and there's no drama.

Edited October 15 by Glacier Peak

[Crysis]

So you are saying highest DRAMA per hour is generated somewhere other than Indom?

 

Do dish please…..always love a good story.

[BlackSpectre]

In general, Influence and XP go hand in hard. So if you find a mission with the best influence yield, it will also be the best XP yield. 
 

Don’t know if this helps at all, but with the following AE map I’m able to get 4,217,911 XP per 12 min run — 342,920 XP per min. Map: 62525 - street tunnel FF
 

vet levels are 5,608,000 XP

So that’s about 17 min per vet level. 

 

 

 

[Crysis]

8 hours ago, BlackSpectre said:

In general, Influence and XP go hand in hard. So if you find a mission with the best influence yield, it will also be the best XP yield. 
 

Don’t know if this helps at all, but with the following AE map I’m able to get 4,217,911 XP per 12 min run — 342,920 XP per min. Map: 62525 - street tunnel FF
 

vet levels are 5,608,000 XP

So that’s about 17 min per vet level. 

 

 

 

 

Thx, 17m beats my 20m best XP/min I’ve found but being AE I somewhat expected that as its easier to pack in max critters without travel distances.  

 

I’ll check it out.

[Snarky]

i only (rarely) farm XP on new projects 1-50.  uh, and to open the alpha.  i take breaks.  if i moved the operation to a double exp server (which i should...) it would be faster.  on Excelsior, without breaks, about 3 hours 1-50.  i take breaks.  alpha takes 5 min.

[Neiska]

Personally I care more about the ease and consistency than how much I get per hour. If I’m chill farming, I can do it for several hours. Sometimes I don’t even pay attention to how many levels or how much inf I get. I pause to sell things when I’m full and go back to it. I find it quite relaxing with the right setup.

[Ukase]

On 10/15/2024 at 9:38 AM, Yomo Kimyata said:

Experienced has a ten minute cooldown

Yomo is absolutely right with the recharge time on those anniversary Experienced temps. 

But, that's not the only place to get those - the hero/villain and winter packs also have them. 
So, just anecodotally, because I have a bunch of these in my character email, I will grab one. And only one. Use it, and it disappears. Then I grab another, and use that. And that gives me 10 bars, and then I grab a third, but don't use it until I use up the 10 bars I have.

These are from the hero and winter packs. From @bopper's post, the odds of getting them are just more than 1/4 of a percent. Caveat Emptor!

[Sanguinesun]

12 hours ago, Crysis said:

 

Thx, 17m beats my 20m best XP/min I’ve found but being AE I somewhat expected that as its easier to pack in max critters without travel distances.  

 

I’ll check it out.

 

 

With AE farming, it is (like with various other aspects of the game) tied to the variables around you.

 

   

1. Your toon build being optimized for damage output in an aoe fashion to as many mobs as possible (to of course try to clear as fast as possible) while also have a decent single target chain (for boss/Elite boss needs).  This does not include skittle chewing or S.T.A.R.T boosters either of course.   The often debated tank vs brute argument for example due to the brutes higher damage output but (very much depending on the attack powers mind you) the tanks ability to hit 16 targets with some aoe's vs a brutes 10(causing in some cases the math to favor a tank's clearing) or the tanks capability to build for resistances easier to devote more in damage or other IO set bonus needs for the build and thus thinning the gap damage wise between the two even more(yes this is with the knowledge of tanks/brute changes that occurred a few years ago to already narrow that gap).

 

I've seen people claim their toon is optimal for ae farming BUT then when looking at their builds, seeing that they've taken travel powers(vs other powers more optimal for farming... you can just take an s.t.a.r.t travel instead as if you're a true farming toon, you're never really leaving pocket d or similar ae area really), dont have much in terms of IO sets, no incarnates or incarnates not well done, no accolades or only some related to bettering their builds for farming etc.   

 

2. Their capability (or not) of the toon to clear effectively up to EB's(or not.... some make builds more at ease with up to bosses instead per point 1).

 

3. The map.  Not in terms of whether it has boss or up to EB's but in terms of easy it is to move across(all flat vs extremely varied terrain which can eat movement time), how the mobs spawn in that space on the map(spread out so more time moving between), and how much mobs spawn(or not). 

 

It also is a factor in long vs short maps.  If you're using shorter maps your time -between- transitioning resets of the maps diminishes your exp for some people vs if their variables with these points factored would better favor bigger maps where they stay longer constantly killing.

 

4. How the mobs are designed in relation to the AT's damage resistances(or not) as well as trying to (due to the AE limitations) the needs to take various abilities in order to fully get 100% value for minions, LT's, boss, and EB's.    Some people design min lt to be 100% for example but fail to make the boss/EB's 100%. You'd only know this from analising the exp/influence rewarded on kill and cross comparing with other maps. 

 

One would be surprised how many "oh use xyz map" suggestions have less than optimal xp/inf for mobs OR have dipped into power sets making mobs harder to take down because of what they dipped into. Additionally, some have designed mobs to cater to their play pace/AT style specifically (part of point 5) and thus killing the mobs for them is (as they perceive it) easy but for others that do not do the same as them be much harder or even ineffective.   I for example know people who still play some of the older AE FF maps that mobs still have the -def abilities because they chew skittles and other things like there's no tomorrow.

 

5.  Boosts as mentioned above. People, even in guides, speak to -needing- to use those boosts to be capable of clearing as they suggest, but yet they also, especially in influence terms, gloss over how that is an expenditure that (were this like a business) eats into your profits.  Some people claim their xyz build, map choice, and those expenditures for boosts still have them have better exp/inf per hour that has them being more profitable in the long run,  I dont find the evidence to their claims to be as compelling as they make them out to be.

 

6. Misc.  Experienced boosters people have already addressed, whether they log their toon out(easy enough at AE) at a day job for boosts (rare but some have so many farmers they rotate between them per their day job exp boosted meters).  Indom or similar for the higher rates.  Etc etc etc.

 

7. The player.  This is one of the main variables that cannot be accounted for and also has a lot to do with how and why there are so many differences in exp/inf per hour that have been seen every time these sorts of threads or discussions on the guides related to them occur.  People's choices of clearing routes, their choices in how they chain their attacks, their choices related to other things in above points, their reaction time, their mistakes that may cause them to die or have to take a longer pause in time to get their killing pace back in full swing, etc.

 

 

--------

 

So when someone says they use xyz map clearing xyz influence per hour, I think on the above and more variables.  Rare occasions I'll test their claims(finding in almost ---every--- case there is a discrepancy in those claims even when following said claim to the letter.  When I say discrepancy too I dont mean small ones like a variation of a 10's of thousands or less xp/inf, but in the millions or in much much longer clear times.    Human factor mentioned in point 6 can account for some marginal variation or discrepancies but when it much larger, it then starts to make one consider that claims were potentially either inflated or that other variables were not transparent with their claims.

 

 

 

With all that said then as a whole, people are going to farm as they wish invariably.   There are people for example who pride themselves on farming with blasters or other AT's and even dragging their other toons in multiboxing tow with them on one map, or any other combination of factors.  It's then what ever floats their boat really.   

 

But always when individuals start claiming they've the most optimal way and throwing out their xp/inf numbers per hour, my spidey skepticism senses start tingling. 😛

Edited October 18 by Sanguinesun