Group Fly Immunity as an option

[TheMoncrief]

I don't think there is a power that is more hated than Group Fly. It is rarely taken, and when it is taken, the person who took it is often chastised by his entire team because it makes life materially worse for them all unless they remembered to go to Null the Gull to become immune to it, and it is so rarely taken that few players remember to do so.

 

But at the same time, there are players who legitimately need, or at least strongly benefit from Group Fly in outdoor missions where they have to move around a lot. I'm talking about Masterminds. Mastermind pets have trouble keeping up with their summoner over long distances, and often get stuck on obstacles. And while there seems to be some kind of leashing teleport to resummon them automatically if they get too far away, it is incredibly inconsistent and unreliable.

 

So I wonder, why is Group Fly immunity not an option? The Team Teleport prompt is in the options menu. Why not a Group Fly immunity option as well? Why do people have to go to Pocket D and talk to Null the Gull to change this option, which is inconvenient in an instanced MSR, and risks losing the ability to even re-enter the zone entirely in a Hamidon raid?

[Rudra]

This has been discussed many, many times. The most recent of which is currently on page 2 of the Suggestions and Feedback forum. I'm not currently inclined to rehash all those threads again, so I'll just post this:

 

 

[megaericzero]

13 hours ago, TheMoncrief said:

So I wonder, why is Group Fly immunity not an option? The Team Teleport prompt is in the options menu. Why not a Group Fly immunity option as well? Why do people have to go to Pocket D and talk to Null the Gull to change this option, which is inconvenient in an instanced MSR, and risks losing the ability to even re-enter the zone entirely in a Hamidon raid?

According to the Paragon devs, Null was - for whatever reason - the only way they could code it in, along with anything else he offers.

 

He's the MacGuyver fix to whatever the menus need to do but can't.

Edited November 22 by megaericzero
I stand corrected

[Troo]

 

Can't masterminds dismiss and re-spawn pets?

 

[AlwaysAPrice]

It's not that they couldn't make it a proper option, it was just the quickly deployable implementation they had the resources to complete at the time so players could immediately benefit from the additional options they'd figured out how to provide, according to some of the historical notes on the wiki. It still works just fine for its original purpose so sorting that probably remains a pretty low priority feature awaiting the interest of someone patient enough to deal with that particular area of the code.

 

Do think it would be nice if HC made the current implementation less Easter Eggy, dropped a copy of Null somewhere close to the trainers in Atlas & Mercy (or gave its menu to the Field Analysts/Fateweavers to give them something to do), and maybe added a pop-up to the new character process pointing out where it is and what it does, maybe with contact text on the Group Fly/Speed Boost options explaining for new players who haven't encountered those powers yet why the option is provided. (leaving out alignment change on the non co-op zone versions of course or limiting it to just the half-step from that side).

[Rudra]

16 minutes ago, Troo said:

 

Can't masterminds dismiss and re-spawn pets?

 

Almost constantly as long as they have the END for it and got the recharge down.

[Ghost]

You know what become comical about these “Group Fly” threads??

 

There’s more of them than actual players using it.

Maybe it’s a common thing on MSRs, but I don’t remember that last time I saw anyone use it on a team…..and that’s all I do is PUG team.

[Laucianna]

Awww shit, here we go again 😄

[biostem]

16 hours ago, TheMoncrief said:

So I wonder, why is Group Fly immunity not an option?

Does your "wondering" extend to having done a search of the forums?  Always take the approach that you are not the first person to come up with something, and do a few searches just to make sure...

[kelika2]

3 hours ago, Ghost said:

You know what become comical about these “Group Fly” threads??

 

There’s more of them than actual players using it.

1 person with group fly with 7 potential pissed off people

 

the numbers are there

[Ghost]

12 minutes ago, kelika2 said:

1 person with group fly with 7 potential pissed off people

 

the numbers are there

Like I said though.

I run on PUG teams/TFs all the time.  I can’t remember the last time I saw someone with Group Fly.

 

Maybe I’m lucky.

or (channeling inner conspiracy theorist) it’s the same couple of people starting these threads

🤨

[biostem]

33 minutes ago, Ghost said:

I can’t remember the last time I saw someone with Group Fly.

At this point, it's more of a "philosophical dispute";  Should 1 person be able to remove the agency of other players, by "forcing" flight upon them?  Is it better to inconvenience the 1 person using the power, or other multiple other people who don't want it used?  It's kind of similar to the phasing/intangible discussions around those powers...

[kelika2]

56 minutes ago, Ghost said:

Maybe I’m lucky.

If you are not playing on excelsior i can see that happening

[Communistpenguin]

5 hours ago, Ghost said:

You know what become comical about these “Group Fly” threads??

 

There’s more of them than actual players using it.

Maybe it’s a common thing on MSRs, but I don’t remember that last time I saw anyone use it on a team…..and that’s all I do is PUG team.

Well yes, because if anyone uses GF they get told to stop using it immediately.

[Ghost]

9 minutes ago, Communistpenguin said:

Well yes, because if anyone uses GF they get told to stop using it immediately.

That’s the only place I play

 

knowing my luck, I’ll probably end up on a team with one tonight 

[GM_GooglyMoogly]

 I see we are having this discussion  . . . again.  B.E.T.E.O.

 

[Luminara]

Jesus.  Both sides need to put on their big boy pants and act like adults instead of bitching and whining about each other.

 

"Waaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh someone used Group Fly near me!"

 

"Waaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh someone doesn't want me to use Group Fly!"

 

Grow the fuck up already.  Talk.  Compromise.  Agreeably part ways.  Work it the fuck out.  It's a goddamn video game, not the precursor to a nuclear winter.

[GM_GooglyMoogly]

[biostem]

25 minutes ago, Luminara said:

Grow the fuck up already.  Talk.  Compromise.  Agreeably part ways.  Work it the fuck out.  It's a goddamn video game, not the precursor to a nuclear winter.

Isn't that exactly what's going on?  It may not be 100% civil, but AFAIK, no one has come to actual blows regarding this subject...

[PeregrineFalcon]

I've played a LOT of Masterminds, but I've never once used Group Fly outside of the test server. What is it about Group Fly that's soooooooooooooooooo awesome that you just absolutely have to have it on at all times? No matter how much it messes with other players. No matter how much people ask you to turn it off, which you won't do because you're more important than everyone else because you're the Main Character! Right!?!?!

 

Seriously, what is so hard about teamwork? Is this really a concept that you all have trouble with? Oh right, Main Character. Sorry, I forgot.

 

19 hours ago, TheMoncrief said:

I don't think there is a power that is more hated than Group Fly.

Which is why you should just turn it off when you're in a group. It doesn't do anything for you that's worth inconveniencing the rest of your team for.

[biostem]

5 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

I've played a LOT of Masterminds, but I've never once used Group Fly

I have a fair number of MMs;  I just dismiss then resummon if I need to travel any great distance...  Sure, it can be a PITA, but MMs are kind of a "high maintenance" AT, anyway...

[TheMoncrief]

OK, I appear to have lit a fire.

 

Would it be possible to have it default to player immunity instead? So you can go to Null to be able to have Group Fly work on you, but by default it will only work with the user's pets? I do have a few characters where I would situationally like Group Fly to work for me - such as non-flying melee DPS in the aforementioned mito runs in a Hamidon raid, but those situations are very much the exception. Even that's pretty rare, usually I'll just buy a jet pack from START.

 

I'll be truly shocked if the response to this modified suggestion is a torrent of people strenuously objecting to such a change because Group Fly is perfect in its current state and the change would ruin it. I do get how it would feel weird to have a power that by default doesn't actually do anything, but Group Fly is a very exceptional power already in terms of its unpopularity.

[Greycat]

As a side note, for masterminds (and you can almost limit it further to ranged MMs, like 'bots, since it doesn't really mesh with melee based,) it's also a matter of protecting their minions, not just moving them around.

 

Granted, this is mostly MSRs, but there's a *massive* increase in survivability when using GF vs not in those situations (and you can probably extrapolate "other large teams/leagues and/or high +X settings" there, too.) If something's doing large, ground based AOEs (see: Stalagmites, and though they're not as damaging, Caltrops and Earthquake come to mind,) GF keeps the pets out of it - meaning the MM's only real source of offensive power (and, thanks to bodyguard, survivability) is still usable.  (And yes, things like caltrops and earthquake are a solid reason for MMs to use it in a mission - a blaster doesn't leave their blasts behind if they get caught in Earthquake, for instance.)

 

Telling them to shut it off in a raid (and at least on Everlasting, most MSRs will say flat out they're "group fly friendly") is essentially telling them "you don't get to use half your character." Which is part of why the push back gets to be loud about it, too - there's a big difference between "I get to have my bots blast things" vs "Oh, wait, resummon again.. T1s, ok, T2s, oh my T1s are dead again, wait for the recharge..."

 

Again, though... that is fairly limited. (I can't say how useful it is on a hami. *shrug* I don't MM on hamis.)

 

So.. yeah, ,for now, Null's the workaround we've been given. I'd think the fastest workaround would be to proliferate him, at least in raid zones, since there's a risk of getting locked out if you forget (or don't know) to turn its effect on you off. Would I prefer a better option, absolutely. And if the devs can make another option work so people can just go into their options and turn it off or what have you, all for it. Even giving MMs "pet fly" by default as an inherent- yes, it means they get a free travel power and we'd likely start seeing 20 threads a week on THAT subject - I'd be for.

 

But until they can do that, and decide they want to do that, we have a workaround available. If you have powers that need you to be on the ground, or just a preference to "just fly when I want to," the power to do that is in your hands already.

 

 

Edit: The devs could answer this, and it's "yet another workaround," but aside from tokens, would a free START vendor power that gives you, personally, say a  -400% -fly debuff work as well? Benefit there is you can see you have it, it's in the starting zone(s) as well as Pocket D, and could toggle it on and off as desired.

Edited November 23 by Greycat

[Rudra]

19 minutes ago, TheMoncrief said:

OK, I appear to have lit a fire.

 

Would it be possible to have it default to player immunity instead? So you can go to Null to be able to have Group Fly work on you, but by default it will only work with the user's pets? I do have a few characters where I would situationally like Group Fly to work for me - such as non-flying melee DPS in the aforementioned mito runs in a Hamidon raid, but those situations are very much the exception. Even that's pretty rare, usually I'll just buy a jet pack from START.

 

I'll be truly shocked if the response to this modified suggestion is a torrent of people strenuously objecting to such a change because Group Fly is perfect in its current state and the change would ruin it. I do get how it would feel weird to have a power that by default doesn't actually do anything, but Group Fly is a very exceptional power already in terms of its unpopularity.

I highly recommend you read through those threads I linked for you.

[Videra]

Can we please, please just remove group fly and make MM pets inherit flight by default? The tech exists, use it to free us from this never-ending firestorm of Group Fly threads! Cast it into the fire!