All of CoH Is End-Game Content

[SwitchFade]

Forums.

 

Does that make me the "final boss" of CoH? Groovy.

 

The Widower!

 

Epic A/V AwesomeMonster Incarnate!

 

This calls for a new power set...

 

And a new incarnate! Well of the Forums?

[retiarius]

Huh.  And here I was thinking that the true endgame was padding your in-game ignore list -- or, alternatively, padding your friends list, depending on your approach.    ;D

[Burnt Toast]

Hate to break it to you but farming/PLing was a part of CoH at launch.

CoX was designed for people to play how they wanted to play, to make as many characters as they wanted to make, and to join with others who wanted to play the same way.

I have a friend who played for a few weeks - got to like level 30ish doing story arcs and hasn't been seen in over 6 weeks... so your anecdotal acquaintance is just that...anecdotal.

When CoH was live farming was so popular/in demand that Chinese Gold Farmers spammed the zones offering great deals...and I know many who paid real money to have their character farmed to 50 in a day.

 

I think your rose tinted sunglasses are skewing your view of what CoH was...

 

An acquaintance of mine rushed through the game to max level and Incarnate.  He hasn't played in over a month.

 

The landscape of gaming has changed so much, back when CoX was live we still lived in a time when the leveling process mattered.  These days all that matters is the endgame.  So people unfamiliar with the "old ways" are blasting through only to realize that there isn't much to see at the end.

 

CoX was designed to be enjoyed over a long period of leveling.  Slow down, enjoy the journey.  It's a nice reprieve from the instant gratification shit that is plaguing other games.

[Sidious]

You're ALL wrong.

 

True end-game meta-content is...

 

 

 

Forums.

 

Oh, and costuming.

 

This is true honestly. When I played swtor I found that I spent way more time on the forums than in the game itself. So far on HC, I’ve spent more time in game, but I do prowl the forums a lot.

 

I have to say, Costuming in and of itself is at least a side game to actually playing.

People spend hours PER costume in the creator and we have 9 (10 if they ever do the Halloween stuff soon) slots to fill.

 

Watching the costume parade in AP is easily one of the more fun downtime experiences.

[Marine X]

Hate to break it to you but farming/PLing was a part of CoH at launch.

CoX was designed for people to play how they wanted to play, to make as many characters as they wanted to make, and to join with others who wanted to play the same way.

I have a friend who played for a few weeks - got to like level 30ish doing story arcs and hasn't been seen in over 6 weeks... so your anecdotal acquaintance is just that...anecdotal.

When CoH was live farming was so popular/in demand that Chinese Gold Farmers spammed the zones offering great deals...and I know many who paid real money to have their character farmed to 50 in a day.

 

I think your rose tinted sunglasses are skewing your view of what CoH was...

 

Agreed that it was always present in CoX, but it was much more of a minority. Paying for Power Leveling was considered under the EULA a violation and could get you banned from the game. There were Player run farms, usually a Freakshow or Family mission that they would clear everything but the boss or a glowie and then restart. Then we had AE, It wasn't created for farming but you have to know they knew some would use it for that, but without an outside entity profiting from it.

But Today is different, we have a mix of Veterans who wanted the game back for years and new players experiencing it for the first time. I have always thought this game was something special, and guess I would like the new players to get to see the parts of the game I thought made it cool. The "Looking for Group" channel is packed constantly with requests for Death from Below and Drowning in Blood. The Help channel is full of people asking questions about really basic parts of the game.

Keeping both the NEW and OLD players happy is the only way this new version of CoX is going Survive, we need enough people to make it financially viable as a community and donation supported enterprise. Let's play well, TOGETHER...

[AkuTenshiiZero]

Hate to break it to you but farming/PLing was a part of CoH at launch.

CoX was designed for people to play how they wanted to play, to make as many characters as they wanted to make, and to join with others who wanted to play the same way.

I have a friend who played for a few weeks - got to like level 30ish doing story arcs and hasn't been seen in over 6 weeks... so your anecdotal acquaintance is just that...anecdotal.

When CoH was live farming was so popular/in demand that Chinese Gold Farmers spammed the zones offering great deals...and I know many who paid real money to have their character farmed to 50 in a day.

 

I think your rose tinted sunglasses are skewing your view of what CoH was...

 

I am not saying those people didn't exist, but it was accepted by the majority that it was the wrong way to play, and those people were duly ridiculed for doing so.  Not to mention, I vividly remember Positron going on a rampage when people started using AE to powerlevel and farm, doling out nerfs and bans like a goddam vengeful deity.  The folks at Paragon were very disappointed to see a tool for creativity used as a shortcut.

 

Yeah, powerlevelers and farmers existed, in a minority, and as a sort of grimy underbelly that we mostly ignored and laughed at.  It was not THIS bad.  Every other character I see is a damned Spines/Fire now.

[Razia]

You're ALL wrong.

 

True end-game meta-content is...

 

 

 

Forums.

 

Oh, and costuming.

 

"Fashion is the true end game" - Warframe mantra.

 

+1 inf/+ 1plat

[Shinobu]

Agreed that it was always present in CoX, but it was much more of a minority.

 

Yeah, powerlevelers and farmers existed, in a minority,

 

You and I remember Budapest very differently.  ;)

 

 

[jubakumbi]

I am not saying those people didn't exist, but it was accepted by the majority that it was the wrong way to play, and those people were duly ridiculed for doing so.  Not to mention, I vividly remember Positron going on a rampage when people started using AE to powerlevel and farm, doling out nerfs and bans like a goddam vengeful deity.  The folks at Paragon were very disappointed to see a tool for creativity used as a shortcut.

 

Yeah, powerlevelers and farmers existed, in a minority, and as a sort of grimy underbelly that we mostly ignored and laughed at.  It was not THIS bad.  Every other character I see is a damned Spines/Fire now.

 

So, just because Cryptic employees had emotional attachments to their toys and thought players had to comform to that 'morality', we should be forced to do that now?

That makes no sense.

Why go backwards?

 

Those same game runners destroyed the 'original' 3v1 crap holding back the game, and now we can move beyond what they thought, but that is now somehow 'too far'?

 

What is with people that think they need to restrict others from having fun in thier own way?

 

Man, there sure are some real control freaks in this community, overburdened with nostalgia.

[justicebeliever]

Agreed that it was always present in CoX, but it was much more of a minority.

 

Yeah, powerlevelers and farmers existed, in a minority,

 

You and I remember Budapest very differently.  ;)

 

As always, Shinobu, spot on.  I think there is definitely some Rose Colored glasses happening here (they should remove those from the costume creator).  I think we see the same battle that played out over and over again in-game and on the forums with Live playing out again here on HC.

 

I'm not surprised...for many people, age hardens ones beliefs, and we are definitely a more aged population here.

 

[_NOPE_]

So, just because Cryptic employees had emotional attachments to their toys and thought players had to comform to that 'morality', we should be forced to do that now?

That makes no sense.

Why go backwards?

 

Those same game runners destroyed the 'original' 3v1 crap holding back the game, and now we can move beyond what they thought, but that is now somehow 'too far'?

 

What is with people that think they need to restrict others from having fun in thier own way?

 

Man, there sure are some real control freaks in this community, overburdened with nostalgia.

 

[jubakumbi]

 

Nope.

[golstat2003]

Hate to break it to you but farming/PLing was a part of CoH at launch.

CoX was designed for people to play how they wanted to play, to make as many characters as they wanted to make, and to join with others who wanted to play the same way.

I have a friend who played for a few weeks - got to like level 30ish doing story arcs and hasn't been seen in over 6 weeks... so your anecdotal acquaintance is just that...anecdotal.

When CoH was live farming was so popular/in demand that Chinese Gold Farmers spammed the zones offering great deals...and I know many who paid real money to have their character farmed to 50 in a day.

 

I think your rose tinted sunglasses are skewing your view of what CoH was...

 

 

 

I am not saying those people didn't exist, but it was accepted by the majority that it was the wrong way to play, and those people were duly ridiculed for doing so.  Not to mention, I vividly remember Positron going on a rampage when people started using AE to powerlevel and farm, doling out nerfs and bans like a goddam vengeful deity.  The folks at Paragon were very disappointed to see a tool for creativity used as a shortcut.

 

Yeah, powerlevelers and farmers existed, in a minority, and as a sort of grimy underbelly that we mostly ignored and laughed at.  It was not THIS bad.  Every other character I see is a damned Spines/Fire now.

 

Yes, it was this "bad". (Mind you I don't consider any of what you're stating as bad as you can easily find teams with all the pling messages in LFG. And I DON'T consider DFB or DIB to be pling. Those are trials built by the devs to run as content. That is NOT in the same category as AE, Battle Maiden Farms, etc etc.)

 

You have a very rose tinted sunglasses indeed.

 

Aggro caps were specifically changed because of dumpster diving in the early days of the game. And Winter Lords was a thing.

 

People have always pl'd. And to the extreme.

 

And no I don't remember it being ridiculed at all, as I spent many a time in PI during live. People were also able to find regular lvl 50 teams there for AV runs and door missions when that feature was added.

 

Some of us have VERY different memories about this game when it was on Live.

[Saikochoro]

Hate to break it to you but farming/PLing was a part of CoH at launch.

CoX was designed for people to play how they wanted to play, to make as many characters as they wanted to make, and to join with others who wanted to play the same way.

I have a friend who played for a few weeks - got to like level 30ish doing story arcs and hasn't been seen in over 6 weeks... so your anecdotal acquaintance is just that...anecdotal.

When CoH was live farming was so popular/in demand that Chinese Gold Farmers spammed the zones offering great deals...and I know many who paid real money to have their character farmed to 50 in a day.

 

I think your rose tinted sunglasses are skewing your view of what CoH was...

 

I am not saying those people didn't exist, but it was accepted by the majority that it was the wrong way to play, and those people were duly ridiculed for doing so.  Not to mention, I vividly remember Positron going on a rampage when people started using AE to powerlevel and farm, doling out nerfs and bans like a goddam vengeful deity.  The folks at Paragon were very disappointed to see a tool for creativity used as a shortcut.

 

Yeah, powerlevelers and farmers existed, in a minority, and as a sort of grimy underbelly that we mostly ignored and laughed at.  It was not THIS bad.  Every other character I see is a damned Spines/Fire now.

 

So a portion of the player base didn’t play how you thought they should and you think it was right to ridicule them? How is that the wrong way to play? If that is what people enjoyed, then they were doing it right. I did a good amount of the story and it bored me to death. The story in most games bores me to death. I give it a shot anyway just to see if it will interest me and have yet to enjoy the “proper” way of playing more than my own custom way of playing. What I enjoyed was getting into mid levels to test out as many power combos as I could. The entire group of people I played with on live chose to ignore most story content as they felt it was boring. And instead focused on making alts they enjoyed. These people were not few and far between. You don’t see me ridiculing people who enjoy the story content as lesser players.

 

Doesn’t matter if a dev disagreed with how AE was used. They should have had the foresight to understand that a good portion of most player bases enjoy farming. Content writers shouldn’t think so highly of their work that they can’t accept that some people just don’t enjoy it.

 

The whole attitude that farming is a lesser way, a minority, and worthy of ridicule is asinine. The toxicity that’s group of self appointed fun police is always what has been my absolute least favorite part of this game. Of course that factions survived into HC. The community in this game is pretty awesome and helpful. However, this prejudicial attitude and inability to accept alternative play styles is a black mark on the community.

[golstat2003]

Hate to break it to you but farming/PLing was a part of CoH at launch.

CoX was designed for people to play how they wanted to play, to make as many characters as they wanted to make, and to join with others who wanted to play the same way.

I have a friend who played for a few weeks - got to like level 30ish doing story arcs and hasn't been seen in over 6 weeks... so your anecdotal acquaintance is just that...anecdotal.

When CoH was live farming was so popular/in demand that Chinese Gold Farmers spammed the zones offering great deals...and I know many who paid real money to have their character farmed to 50 in a day.

 

I think your rose tinted sunglasses are skewing your view of what CoH was...

 

I am not saying those people didn't exist, but it was accepted by the majority that it was the wrong way to play, and those people were duly ridiculed for doing so.  Not to mention, I vividly remember Positron going on a rampage when people started using AE to powerlevel and farm, doling out nerfs and bans like a goddam vengeful deity.  The folks at Paragon were very disappointed to see a tool for creativity used as a shortcut.

 

Yeah, powerlevelers and farmers existed, in a minority, and as a sort of grimy underbelly that we mostly ignored and laughed at.  It was not THIS bad.  Every other character I see is a damned Spines/Fire now.

 

So a portion of the player base didn’t play how you thought they should and you think it was right to ridicule them? How is that the wrong way to play? If that is what people enjoyed, then they were doing it right. I did a good amount of the story and it bored me to death. The story in most games bores me to death. I give it a shot anyway just to see if it will interest me and have yet to enjoy the “proper” way of playing more than my own custom way of playing. What I enjoyed was getting into mid levels to test out as many power combos as I could. The entire group of people I played with on live chose to ignore most story content as they felt it was boring. And instead focused on making alts they enjoyed. These people were not few and far between. You don’t see me ridiculing people who enjoy the story content as lesser players.

 

Doesn’t matter if a dev disagreed with how AE was used. They should have had the foresight to understand that a good portion of most player bases enjoy farming. Content writers shouldn’t think so highly of their work that they can’t accept that some people just don’t enjoy it.

 

The whole attitude that farming is a lesser way, a minority, and worthy of ridicule is asinine. The toxicity that’s group of self appointed fun police is always what has been my absolute least favorite part of this game. Of course that factions survived into HC. The community in this game is pretty awesome and helpful. However, this prejudicial attitude and inability to accept alternative play styles is a black mark on the community.

 

 

Agreed. Also I am of the opinion that a lot of the lower level content has NOT aged well. It needs to be updated for me to want to run it for the 2221212134 time. Which I don't see happening anytime soon. (The re-writes and updates)

[AkuTenshiiZero]

>Going on about toxicity

>Ganging up on one guy you disagree with

 

OK fam

[Saikochoro]

Hate to break it to you but farming/PLing was a part of CoH at launch.

CoX was designed for people to play how they wanted to play, to make as many characters as they wanted to make, and to join with others who wanted to play the same way.

I have a friend who played for a few weeks - got to like level 30ish doing story arcs and hasn't been seen in over 6 weeks... so your anecdotal acquaintance is just that...anecdotal.

When CoH was live farming was so popular/in demand that Chinese Gold Farmers spammed the zones offering great deals...and I know many who paid real money to have their character farmed to 50 in a day.

 

I think your rose tinted sunglasses are skewing your view of what CoH was...

 

I am not saying those people didn't exist, but it was accepted by the majority that it was the wrong way to play, and those people were duly ridiculed for doing so.  Not to mention, I vividly remember Positron going on a rampage when people started using AE to powerlevel and farm, doling out nerfs and bans like a goddam vengeful deity.  The folks at Paragon were very disappointed to see a tool for creativity used as a shortcut.

 

Yeah, powerlevelers and farmers existed, in a minority, and as a sort of grimy underbelly that we mostly ignored and laughed at.  It was not THIS bad.  Every other character I see is a damned Spines/Fire now.

 

So a portion of the player base didn’t play how you thought they should and you think it was right to ridicule them? How is that the wrong way to play? If that is what people enjoyed, then they were doing it right. I did a good amount of the story and it bored me to death. The story in most games bores me to death. I give it a shot anyway just to see if it will interest me and have yet to enjoy the “proper” way of playing more than my own custom way of playing. What I enjoyed was getting into mid levels to test out as many power combos as I could. The entire group of people I played with on live chose to ignore most story content as they felt it was boring. And instead focused on making alts they enjoyed. These people were not few and far between. You don’t see me ridiculing people who enjoy the story content as lesser players.

 

Doesn’t matter if a dev disagreed with how AE was used. They should have had the foresight to understand that a good portion of most player bases enjoy farming. Content writers shouldn’t think so highly of their work that they can’t accept that some people just don’t enjoy it.

 

The whole attitude that farming is a lesser way, a minority, and worthy of ridicule is asinine. The toxicity that’s group of self appointed fun police is always what has been my absolute least favorite part of this game. Of course that factions survived into HC. The community in this game is pretty awesome and helpful. However, this prejudicial attitude and inability to accept alternative play styles is a black mark on the community.

 

 

Agreed. Also I am of the opinion that a lot of the lower level content has NOT aged well. It needs to be updated for me to want to run it for the 2221212134 time. Which I don't see happening anytime soon. (The re-writes and updates)

 

I agree that it hasn’t, though to be fair I thought it was super boring on live too. That’s just the thing. Some people just can’t accept the idea that not EVERYONE agrees with their idea of fun. I say let people play how they want.

[subbacultchas]

I remember times when I didn't PL and was mostly unaware of it. Then the first time a Fire Tank took me box hunting in Boomtown, I was suddenly aware that there were ways to level I hadn't. I can't say we did that overly much or that I PL'd heavily, beyond having a fire tank that would pull lowbie friends through mission. Several issues later we did a fair bit more of it, parties sitting at the door while the main tank dragged and killed the map. Much much later on was AE farming, but that was near the end of it.

 

Mostly, if I'm honest, we didn't farm much on early levels because there were always hazard zones that we could street sweep in and have a blast, since the whole team could participate rather than door sit. It was mostly the last 4-5 levels that we'd find a PL team in PI. Of course, sometime in the midst of this the aggro cap was put in place, and a lot of patch type AOES were given a fear component. I suppose that ended the popular way, but it sure didn't end farming for folks.

 

Now that I've typed this, I'm not sure what the hell I'm adding to the conversation. I will agree that farming has always been a big portion of the game, and like my previous self, you kind of had to run those circles to see it. It doesn't matter much nowdays, as the admins that were so anti-farming have moved on to other games and left this to the wild. I hope as long as people can still get regular teams, and I have no issue with that, we can all get along regardless.

 

 

[SwitchFade]

Freem.

 

GM Widower's epic sig power should be...

 

Freem!

[ChocolateMercenary]

Hate to break it to you but farming/PLing was a part of CoH at launch.

CoX was designed for people to play how they wanted to play, to make as many characters as they wanted to make, and to join with others who wanted to play the same way.

I have a friend who played for a few weeks - got to like level 30ish doing story arcs and hasn't been seen in over 6 weeks... so your anecdotal acquaintance is just that...anecdotal.

When CoH was live farming was so popular/in demand that Chinese Gold Farmers spammed the zones offering great deals...and I know many who paid real money to have their character farmed to 50 in a day.

 

I think your rose tinted sunglasses are skewing your view of what CoH was...

 

I am not saying those people didn't exist, but it was accepted by the majority that it was the wrong way to play, and those people were duly ridiculed for doing so.  Not to mention, I vividly remember Positron going on a rampage when people started using AE to powerlevel and farm, doling out nerfs and bans like a goddam vengeful deity.  The folks at Paragon were very disappointed to see a tool for creativity used as a shortcut.

 

Yeah, powerlevelers and farmers existed, in a minority, and as a sort of grimy underbelly that we mostly ignored and laughed at.  It was not THIS bad.  Every other character I see is a damned Spines/Fire now.

 

The biggest problem was not with people skipping content, but people skipping learning how to play. BAEbies would join and get jumped straight to 50, and then start joining PUGs without knowing how to activate their own mez protection or run toggles. That's a problem when you organize a Pick Up master run of any TF and three members of your team simply don't understand the characters they are playing.

[justicebeliever]

The biggest problem was not with people skipping content, but people skipping learning how to play. BAEbies would join and get jumped straight to 50, and then start joining PUGs without knowing how to activate their own mez protection or run toggles. That's a problem when you organize a Pick Up master run of any TF and three members of your team simply don't understand the characters they are playing.

 

All whales swim in the ocean.  Sea Creatures swim in the ocean.  Therefore all sea creatures are whales...Logical fallacy right?

 

We have players who don't know very well how to play the game, and we have Power Levelers...but the two aren't necessarily related

 

We have different segments of PL'ers -

• Vet Players looking to get to lvl 50 and do whatever end game content they want
  
• Players who are being PL'ed by their friends so they can be the same level their friends are
  
• People exposed to PL'ing thru an in-game connection - shows them how to do it, and off they go
  
• People who read how to PL and just did it
  

But let's be fair, no one just comes to the game, completely clueless and starts to PL.  They have to either a.) acutely aware of the game mechanics in a way to build an "exploit" to level quickly without grinding or b.) they have to been exposed to it by someone else who knows what they are doing.

 

So unless you fall into those last 2 segments, and however you were exposed to the game didn't share with you any other mechanics...you might struggle when you get to 50...But these are the minority cases, not the rule...

 

Conversely there are different segments of people who don't play well as other players

• Casual Gamers who don't min/max
  
• People who don't understand AT Balance and ignore their secondaries - "Pure Healer","Damage Only","All Holds all the time"
  
• People who get bad advice and don't know to question it
  
• People who solo and don't read Paragon Wiki or the Forums
  

 

Doesn't read like a list of people who only power level, does it...I mean I could be a power leveler and be any of those...but there are lots of players who don't PL who fall into all of these as well...

 

It helps a lot on these forums when we don't paint with a big brush and label a segment of players as being "all one thing"...Player's reasons for being who they are and how they play and why they play are as varied as the sunsets...

 

So yes it sucks when you do a PUG and someone doesn't know all the ins and outs as well as you do, but if they leave that group and haven't learned anything, that's now on you, not them

 

And I would argue, if you're bar for a pickup group is "master level", then you have set a very high bar that most people who play this game can't meet.

 

Now it may seem like I am slamming you ChocolateMercenary, and I am not...You've expressed a common opinion on these forums.  This post is as much for them, and not an intent to single you out.  But your post gave me an opportunity to respond...

[subbacultchas]

Take some inf for a darned good post and breakdown.

[Saikochoro]

The biggest problem was not with people skipping content, but people skipping learning how to play. BAEbies would join and get jumped straight to 50, and then start joining PUGs without knowing how to activate their own mez protection or run toggles. That's a problem when you organize a Pick Up master run of any TF and three members of your team simply don't understand the characters they are playing.

 

All whales swim in the ocean.  Sea Creatures swim in the ocean.  Therefore all sea creatures are whales...Logical fallacy right?

 

We have players who don't know very well how to play the game, and we have Power Levelers...but the two aren't necessarily related

 

We have different segments of PL'ers -

• Vet Players looking to get to lvl 50 and do whatever end game content they want
  
• Players who are being PL'ed by their friends so they can be the same level their friends are
  
• People exposed to PL'ing thru an in-game connection - shows them how to do it, and off they go
  
• People who read how to PL and just did it
  

But let's be fair, no one just comes to the game, completely clueless and starts to PL.  They have to either a.) acutely aware of the game mechanics in a way to build an "exploit" to level quickly without grinding or b.) they have to been exposed to it by someone else who knows what they are doing.

 

So unless you fall into those last 2 segments, and however you were exposed to the game didn't share with you any other mechanics...you might struggle when you get to 50...But these are the minority cases, not the rule...

 

Conversely there are different segments of people who don't play well as other players

• Casual Gamers who don't min/max
  
• People who don't understand AT Balance and ignore their secondaries - "Pure Healer","Damage Only","All Holds all the time"
  
• People who get bad advice and don't know to question it
  
• People who solo and don't read Paragon Wiki or the Forums
  

 

Doesn't read like a list of people who only power level, does it...I mean I could be a power leveler and be any of those...but there are lots of players who don't PL who fall into all of these as well...

 

It helps a lot on these forums when we don't paint with a big brush and label a segment of players as being "all one thing"...Player's reasons for being who they are and how they play and why they play are as varied as the sunsets...

 

So yes it sucks when you do a PUG and someone doesn't know all the ins and outs as well as you do, but if they leave that group and haven't learned anything, that's now on you, not them

 

And I would argue, if you're bar for a pickup group is "master level", then you have set a very high bar that most people who play this game can't meet.

 

Now it may seem like I am slamming you ChocolateMercenary, and I am not...You've expressed a common opinion on these forums.  This post is as much for them, and not an intent to single you out.  But your post gave me an opportunity to respond...

 

Very well said. It’s pretty sad that the opinion that PL/Farm = automatic idiot is so common. Especially when some of those opinion holders go so far as to say that PL/Farmers should be ridiculed and laughed at.

[PaxArcana]

 

The only "PLng" I like, is DFB - because it lets me take a new concept to 14 or 16, and decide if I like it or not, without investing eight or so hours into it.  (Hey, I play slowly when solo, sue me! :D )

 

Or, well, I'd've taken it back on Live, when my villain main ran out of content just shy of going to Grandville.  Couldn't even get Paper missions.  Wound up running the same "destroy Longbow base" in .... Siren's Bay, I think it was.  Over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over ... gah.  From level 39, to level 42.  GODS that sucked arse.  So I'd've taken a PL to get past that, for sure.  If I'd been offered one.  :)

[SwitchFade]

The biggest problem was not with people skipping content, but people skipping learning how to play. BAEbies would join and get jumped straight to 50, and then start joining PUGs without knowing how to activate their own mez protection or run toggles. That's a problem when you organize a Pick Up master run of any TF and three members of your team simply don't understand the characters they are playing.

 

All whales swim in the ocean.  Sea Creatures swim in the ocean.  Therefore all sea creatures are whales...Logical fallacy right?

 

We have players who don't know very well how to play the game, and we have Power Levelers...but the two aren't necessarily related

 

We have different segments of PL'ers -

• Vet Players looking to get to lvl 50 and do whatever end game content they want
  
• Players who are being PL'ed by their friends so they can be the same level their friends are
  
• People exposed to PL'ing thru an in-game connection - shows them how to do it, and off they go
  
• People who read how to PL and just did it
  

But let's be fair, no one just comes to the game, completely clueless and starts to PL.  They have to either a.) acutely aware of the game mechanics in a way to build an "exploit" to level quickly without grinding or b.) they have to been exposed to it by someone else who knows what they are doing.

 

So unless you fall into those last 2 segments, and however you were exposed to the game didn't share with you any other mechanics...you might struggle when you get to 50...But these are the minority cases, not the rule...

 

Conversely there are different segments of people who don't play well as other players

• Casual Gamers who don't min/max
  
• People who don't understand AT Balance and ignore their secondaries - "Pure Healer","Damage Only","All Holds all the time"
  
• People who get bad advice and don't know to question it
  
• People who solo and don't read Paragon Wiki or the Forums
  

 

Doesn't read like a list of people who only power level, does it...I mean I could be a power leveler and be any of those...but there are lots of players who don't PL who fall into all of these as well...

 

It helps a lot on these forums when we don't paint with a big brush and label a segment of players as being "all one thing"...Player's reasons for being who they are and how they play and why they play are as varied as the sunsets...

 

So yes it sucks when you do a PUG and someone doesn't know all the ins and outs as well as you do, but if they leave that group and haven't learned anything, that's now on you, not them

 

And I would argue, if you're bar for a pickup group is "master level", then you have set a very high bar that most people who play this game can't meet.

 

Now it may seem like I am slamming you ChocolateMercenary, and I am not...You've expressed a common opinion on these forums.  This post is as much for them, and not an intent to single you out.  But your post gave me an opportunity to respond...

 

Very well said. It’s pretty sad that the opinion that PL/Farm = automatic idiot is so common. Especially when some of those opinion holders go so far as to say that PL/Farmers should be ridiculed and laughed at.

 

I don't think that's common. In fact, I think most vet 50s farm in some form to afford enhances.

 

Also, this thread turned into the Perma-haten thread.

 

I see you rollin'....