Mind Control - Mass Confusion recharge time

[Zumberge]

Someone else brought this up in a thread in the Controller sub-forum with regards to the power levels between sets and it bears mentioning here, because as far as AoE confusion is treated there's a bit of disparity between the three sets that feature it.  Let's go down the list:

 

Plant Control: Seeds of Confusion.  An AoE cone confusion with a 60 second recharge time.  So it's a cone and you need to be close; okay, that's a good limiting factor.

Electric Control: Synaptic Overload.  A ranged chain confusion with a 60 second recharge time.  You can use it at a distance but it needs time to jump between targets.  Okay, that's fine.

Mind Control: Mass Confusion.  A ranged AoE confusion with a 240 second recharge time and lower accuracy than the above two powers.  Huh.  Huh.

 

Being able to point at a group in the distance and go "you guys start punching each other" and having them do it immediately is good - confusion is a great control tool.  But the question is, is it 240 second recharge time good?  Specifically, is it that good when abilities that do the same thing exist with drawbacks that aren't as severe as you'd think on cooldowns that are a fraction of the time?  Moreover, is it that good when you're giving up a pet for it?

 

Now this is tied to a lot of things: Gradual power creep into new sets, what the roles of the specific sets of each AT are and their strengths and weaknesses, the question of whether it's better to nerf overperforming sets or buff underperforming ones, if there's other aspects of Mind Control which warrant the power being on a long cooldown (because it's got a mass sleep, a mass fear, and whatever Telekinesis is), and trying to augur the intentions of a previous development team.  This is a (relatively (very relatively - again, you guys don't have the tools The Powers That Were had)) simple matter of changing a number if it does turn out that hey, four minutes is kind of ridiculous, but if The Powers That Be do take a look at it and go, "the set is fine as-is because this, this, and this" then that's alright.  It's worth asking questions about, but it's not worth fighting over.

[Erydanus]

Mass Confusion having 60% accuracy and a crazy long recharge means it was hit with the nerf stick when ALL the controller AoE holds and stuns were en masse. Dumb choice but there you have it, they nerfed it like it was Total Domination. That the plant and electric sets have AoE confuses means the developers who created those power sets didn't treat them like holds (notice that AoE sleeps and fears weren't nerfed in this way).

 

I'm honestly surprised it didn't get changed ... but then there was a contingent of people who thought it should be removed from Mind Control and a pet created to take its place. A pet ... just like the one Penelope Yin has.

[Zumberge]

Mass Confusion having 60% accuracy and a crazy long recharge means it was hit with the nerf stick when ALL the controller AoE holds and stuns were en masse. Dumb choice but there you have it, they nerfed it like it was Total Domination. That the plant and electric sets have AoE confuses means the developers who created those power sets didn't treat them like holds (notice that AoE sleeps and fears weren't nerfed in this way).

 

I'm honestly surprised it didn't get changed ... but then there was a contingent of people who thought it should be removed from Mind Control and a pet created to take its place. A pet ... just like the one Penelope Yin has.

 

Fear and sleep are different animals than holds and confuses, though; enemies might attack less or not at all, but they're still active and wake up when they take damage, respectively.  Of course we could also point to e.g. Ice Slick and Earthquake which didn't get touched, so /em shrug.

 

Honestly, having Mind Control's "hat" be that it doesn't have a pet isn't a bad thing.  Personally I like the idea that there's a set that kind of breaks the established rules in an archetype, and adding complexity to a problem to fix it (from an engineering perspective) pales in comparison to refining or simplifying what's already there.  The fewer moving parts the better.

[Trickshooter]

I'm all for reducing the recharge time (and reducing the end cost and increasing the accuracy) of Mass Confusion!

 

Let's also review Terrify, which probably doesn't deserve both it's hefty endurance cost and accuracy penalty.

 

Just want to correct a few things from this thread so far, though:

 

AoE Controls were nerfed by reducing their duration and increasing their recharges; Accuracy penalties for the AoEs were already there at launch, I think. The very first patch notes on Paragonwiki, from 5/11/04, actually shows that penalty was removed from the AoE Sleeps.

 

Issue 5 is when the AoE Control nerfs were done, and Ice Slick and Earthquake did get touched; they're specifically called out:

 

Controller AoE Holds, Disorients and Sleeps (and a few others like Quicksand and Ice Slick) recharge times have been increased and duration reduced.

AoE Immobilize and Phase Shift powers were not affected.

Volcanic Gasses duration was not affected.

 

Reduced Duration of Earth Control/Earthquake and Ice Control/Ice Slick.

Changed to bring these powers more in line with other AoE control powers.

 

Increased Recharge time of Ice Control/Shiver.

Change to bring this power more in line with other AoE control powers.

 

Slightly decreased duration of Disorient from Gravity Control/Wormhole, but added a chance to Disorient Bosses to be consistent with similar powers. (Disorient duration for Wormhole is still higher than other Controller AoE Disorient powers.)

Change to make Wormhole more like other AE disorient powers.

 

What's actually interesting is that Mass Confusion, or even Confuse in general, isn't even mentioned at all with all the other changes. Was it actually nerfed with the others or has it always taken too long to recharge, but nobody thought about it because there was no other power to compare it to until Issue 6?

[Zumberge]

(interesting things)

 

Huh.  Though even with the reduced duration, Ice Slick and Earthquake are still very serviceable; if you hadn't pointed it out I would've still thought they hadn't been touched.

 

What's actually interesting is that Mass Confusion, or even Confuse in general, isn't even mentioned at all with all the other changes. Was it actually nerfed with the others or has it always taken too long to recharge, but nobody thought about it because there was no other power to compare it to until Issue 6?

 

I want to say that it always had the long recharge behind it.  It may have been a product of the time, with the consideration being that it's an AoE power that stops enemies from attacking you and causes them to attack each other, so it's control and damage and whatever secondary effects the enemy attacks have.  Perhaps not the first time that a plan didn't survive contact with the enemy player base.

[Bossk_Hogg]

Mind control is sadly just a bad set. I suffered to 50 as one on live. They suck. Anyone who says differently hasn't played one of the good sets. 

 

I'd move Mass Confuse to 90 second recharge. Have Slumber and Mass Hypnosis reapply continuously throughout their duration. TK has legit never been a good power, so fuck the cottage and just give it a pet as a TK construct.

 

You'll still a set that is lower in damage and control than a fire/plant/dark but at least I wont cringe when one joins.

[marcussmythe]

Old Set vs New Set

 

Barring careful research and certain exceptions, always choose new set.

[Yikes]

Mind control is sadly just a bad set. I suffered to 50 as one on live. They suck. Anyone who says differently hasn't played one of the good sets. 

 

I'd move Mass Confuse to 90 second recharge. Have Slumber and Mass Hypnosis reapply continuously throughout their duration. TK has legit never been a good power, so fuck the cottage and just give it a pet as a TK construct.

 

You'll still a set that is lower in damage and control than a fire/plant/dark but at least I wont cringe when one joins.

 

TK is just a displacement tool right? MC having no pet is one of it's gimmicks, with the pet replaced by confusions. It's part of its identity and should stay that way imo. Maybe replace TK with just the psychic tornado from psionic blast

[Williwaw]

MC having no pet is one of it's gimmicks, with the pet replaced by confusions.

 

Which is why Mass Confusion needs to be improved.  If it has Mass Confusion to make up for the lack of a pet, then its recharge time and accuracy have to be good enough to ensure that every enemy group can be confused.  Maybe even boost its base magnitude by one point compared to other AoE Confuses.  It needs to lean hard into that "Confuse instead of a pet" gimmick rather than half-ass it like it's doing now.

[Bossk_Hogg]

Mind control is sadly just a bad set. I suffered to 50 as one on live. They suck. Anyone who says differently hasn't played one of the good sets. 

 

I'd move Mass Confuse to 90 second recharge. Have Slumber and Mass Hypnosis reapply continuously throughout their duration. TK has legit never been a good power, so fuck the cottage and just give it a pet as a TK construct.

 

You'll still a set that is lower in damage and control than a fire/plant/dark but at least I wont cringe when one joins.

 

TK is just a displacement tool right? MC having no pet is one of it's gimmicks, with the pet replaced by confusions. It's part of its identity and should stay that way imo. Maybe replace TK with just the psychic tornado from psionic blast

 

Yeah, it's a cone that picks stuff up, then moves it away from you, eventually out of the cone range so they all immediately shoot you in the face. It drains an obscene amount of endurance, and is nigh useless.

 

Design changes. It's why tanker toggles aren't mutually exclusive to preserve the gimmick of swapping shields for each battle.

 

Fire and Plant are leading the pack in both damage AND control. If they aren't going to nerf them, then the other sets need to be brought up significantly. Normalizing pet damage/utility and giving one to mind would help a lot. Otherwise you need to make mind somehow even more amazing in control to make up for the lack of a pet.

 

Incidentally, it's nuts that blasters have their AE holds on a 90 second timer vs controller's 240 second. The 5 seconds of duration advantage controllers get isn't worth it compared to being up basically every fight.

[Trickshooter]

Incidentally, it's nuts that blasters have their AE holds on a 90 second timer vs controller's 240 second. The 5 seconds of duration advantage controllers get isn't worth it compared to being up basically every fight.

 

I don't think Blasters have any AoE Holds?

[Bossk_Hogg]

Incidentally, it's nuts that blasters have their AE holds on a 90 second timer vs controller's 240 second. The 5 seconds of duration advantage controllers get isn't worth it compared to being up basically every fight.

 

I don't think Blasters have any AoE Holds?

 

All the newer sets do (or another lockdown), and they arent done w the older ones, so I expect them to get one too eventually.

 

Tactical arrow has ESD arrow, AE hold, 90 second recharge. Compare to Trick Arrow's EMP arrow, with it's 300 second recharge. Also look at Tac arrow's Ice Arrow, Glue Arrow and Entangling Arrow and weep. Trick arrow needs to be improved to at least be the equal of a blaster secondary...

 

Atomic Manipulation has Radioactive Cloud, AE hold, 90 second recharge. It is at least PBAE.

Plant has Vines, AE hold.

Martial Combat has an AE stun cone.

Ninja Training has an AE confuse cone.

Temporal Manipulation has Time Shift, an AE stun.

[Trickshooter]

Incidentally, it's nuts that blasters have their AE holds on a 90 second timer vs controller's 240 second. The 5 seconds of duration advantage controllers get isn't worth it compared to being up basically every fight.

 

I don't think Blasters have any AoE Holds?

 

All the newer sets do (or another lockdown), and they arent done w the older ones, so I expect them to get one too eventually.

 

Tactical arrow has ESD arrow, AE hold, 90 second recharge. Compare to Trick Arrow's EMP arrow, with it's 300 second recharge. Also look at Tac arrow's Ice Arrow, Glue Arrow and Entangling Arrow and weep. Trick arrow needs to be improved to at least be the equal of a blaster secondary...

 

Atomic Manipulation has Radioactive Cloud, AE hold, 90 second recharge. It is at least PBAE.

Plant has Vines, AE hold.

Martial Combat has an AE stun cone.

Ninja Training has an AE confuse cone.

Temporal Manipulation has Time Shift, an AE stun.

 

Forgot about those newer sets; not sure what they were thinking. Even after looking at this list, I thought, "well, they're probably all mag2", but nope. Throw Sand was even changed from the 11.92s mag2 Stun it was when the game shut down to a 9.5s mag3 Stun. Not sure I agree with that being a balanced change. Seems too good.

 

The actual Holds though, Vines and ESD Arrow, maybe Radioactive Cloud, those are really problematic. Controller AoE Stuns are also on 90s timers, but last longer and have a chance for extra mag, so Controllers still have the upper hand. But those Holds don't have enough penalties to justify how well they compete with Controller AoE Holds.

[Coyote]

Someone else brought this up in a thread in the Controller sub-forum with regards to the power levels between sets and it bears mentioning here, because as far as AoE confusion is treated there's a bit of disparity between the three sets that feature it.  Let's go down the list:

 

Plant Control: Seeds of Confusion.  An AoE cone confusion with a 60 second recharge time.  So it's a cone and you need to be close; okay, that's a good limiting factor.

Electric Control: Synaptic Overload.  A ranged chain confusion with a 60 second recharge time.  You can use it at a distance but it needs time to jump between targets.  Okay, that's fine.

Mind Control: Mass Confusion.  A ranged AoE confusion with a 240 second recharge time and lower accuracy than the above two powers.  Huh.  Huh.

 

Being able to point at a group in the distance and go "you guys start punching each other" and having them do it immediately is good - confusion is a great control tool.  But the question is, is it 240 second recharge time good?  Specifically, is it that good when abilities that do the same thing exist with drawbacks that aren't as severe as you'd think on cooldowns that are a fraction of the time?  Moreover, is it that good when you're giving up a pet for it?

 

1: I would say that a bigger difference between the powers than the cone, or slow spread, is whether or not a Confuse power alerts the mobs to your presence, or not. That's probably a major reason why Mind Control's Confuse abilities were considered so strong. In a world where IO sets didn't exist, so you didn't have the amount of defenses available that you do no, it was a bigger point than it is today.

 

2: I have a Dominator with a theoretical duration on Mass Confuse that is equal to its Recharge. So... it can permanently Confuse a spawn. AoE controls that completely stop attacks permanently on an entire +0 spawn are not usually considered in line for being buffed, even if other controls can manage an even higher uptime than 100%.

 

So, from #2, I don't think that a straight Recharge reduction is warranted. I do think that it would be reasonable to reduce the Recharge AND the Duration by the same amount, and I think that looking at Blaster Nukes for the Recharge amount for such a major Tier 9 power is reasonable. So, 120-150 seconds would look reasonable to me.

 

I think that we're also looking at the wrong power in Mind Control. Mass Confuse jumps out as an outlier, but honestly, it's the "every spawn control" where it feels the weakest... Mass Hypnosis and Terrify. Mass Hypnosis is only useful in a few rare situations, and Terrify isn't bad but it's not a good every-spawn control. It really need a To-Hit or a Damage debuff in it.

[Trickshooter]

I think that we're also looking at the wrong power in Mind Control. Mass Confuse jumps out as an outlier, but honestly, it's the "every spawn control" where it feels the weakest... Mass Hypnosis and Terrify. Mass Hypnosis is only useful in a few rare situations, and Terrify isn't bad but it's not a good every-spawn control. It really need a To-Hit or a Damage debuff in it.

 

I think Mass Hypnosis could be useful with a lingering -Speed/-Recharge, kind of like enemies are drowsy. It is the only Controller AoE Sleep that is actual... sleep. Ice and Earth's sleeps are more like enemies are in fragile holds, and even though Elec's Sleep uses the Sleep animation, I think, I feel like it's more like unconscious, rather than asleep.

 

Terrify is pretty comparable to Fearsome Stare, already; shorter range, wider cone and damage compared to longer range, narrower cone and -ToHit. By itself, I think it's okay. What would be neat was if using Terrify on a sleeping enemy did something extra, like some kind of demoralizing effect as you turn their dreams to nightmares.

[Coyote]

I think that we're also looking at the wrong power in Mind Control. Mass Confuse jumps out as an outlier, but honestly, it's the "every spawn control" where it feels the weakest... Mass Hypnosis and Terrify. Mass Hypnosis is only useful in a few rare situations, and Terrify isn't bad but it's not a good every-spawn control. It really need a To-Hit or a Damage debuff in it.

 

I think Mass Hypnosis could be useful with a lingering -Speed/-Recharge, kind of like enemies are drowsy. It is the only Controller AoE Sleep that is actual... sleep. Ice and Earth's sleeps are more like enemies are in fragile holds, and even though Elec's Sleep uses the Sleep animation, I think, I feel like it's more like unconscious, rather than asleep.

 

Terrify is pretty comparable to Fearsome Stare, already; shorter range, wider cone and damage compared to longer range, narrower cone and -ToHit. By itself, I think it's okay. What would be neat was if using Terrify on a sleeping enemy did something extra, like some kind of demoralizing effect as you turn their dreams to nightmares.

 

You just said something interesting, and I'm going to expand and paraphrase it:

"What would be neat was IF MIND CONTROL GOT A COMBO EFFECT on its powers".

 

Mass Hypnosis and Terrify should each have debuffs... one of them a -ToHit, and one a -Dam... but combining them should increase the damage from Terrify, and the debuffs.

Confused foes should take extra damage from Terrify.

Using Levitate on the target of Telekinesis should have some interesting effect... maybe turn Levitate into a 8' AoE damage? Maybe just increased SMASH down into the floor for extra damage? I think that Telekinesis should give it an AoE effect, while Domination/Total Domination increase its damage, as the target can't absorb the fall.

Maybe if you combine Mass Hypnosis, Mass Confuse, and then Terrify on the mobs, each mob has a 50% chance to spawn a PBAoE Psy damage effect as their terror is broadcast to those around them?

 

The point would be both to increase the effectiveness of Mind Control, and also to make it more "neat". Right now it is very bland, in visuals of the powers, in visuals of the affected enemies (compare Confuse vs Possess), and in actual effects.

[Yikes]

MC having no pet is one of it's gimmicks, with the pet replaced by confusions.

 

Which is why Mass Confusion needs to be improved.  If it has Mass Confusion to make up for the lack of a pet, then its recharge time and accuracy have to be good enough to ensure that every enemy group can be confused.  Maybe even boost its base magnitude by one point compared to other AoE Confuses.  It needs to lean hard into that "Confuse instead of a pet" gimmick rather than half-ass it like it's doing now.

 

I wasn't disagreeing with you, just being clear on why I think no pet should be introduced

buff TK and MC

[Sarkastik Observer]

I think that we're also looking at the wrong power in Mind Control. Mass Confuse jumps out as an outlier, but honestly, it's the "every spawn control" where it feels the weakest... Mass Hypnosis and Terrify. Mass Hypnosis is only useful in a few rare situations, and Terrify isn't bad but it's not a good every-spawn control. It really need a To-Hit or a Damage debuff in it.

 

I think Mass Hypnosis could be useful with a lingering -Speed/-Recharge, kind of like enemies are drowsy. It is the only Controller AoE Sleep that is actual... sleep. Ice and Earth's sleeps are more like enemies are in fragile holds, and even though Elec's Sleep uses the Sleep animation, I think, I feel like it's more like unconscious, rather than asleep.

 

Terrify is pretty comparable to Fearsome Stare, already; shorter range, wider cone and damage compared to longer range, narrower cone and -ToHit. By itself, I think it's okay. What would be neat was if using Terrify on a sleeping enemy did something extra, like some kind of demoralizing effect as you turn their dreams to nightmares.

 

You just said something interesting, and I'm going to expand and paraphrase it:

"What would be neat was IF MIND CONTROL GOT A COMBO EFFECT on its powers".

 

Mass Hypnosis and Terrify should each have debuffs... one of them a -ToHit, and one a -Dam... but combining them should increase the damage from Terrify, and the debuffs.

Confused foes should take extra damage from Terrify.

Using Levitate on the target of Telekinesis should have some interesting effect... maybe turn Levitate into a 8' AoE damage? Maybe just increased SMASH down into the floor for extra damage? I think that Telekinesis should give it an AoE effect, while Domination/Total Domination increase its damage, as the target can't absorb the fall.

Maybe if you combine Mass Hypnosis, Mass Confuse, and then Terrify on the mobs, each mob has a 50% chance to spawn a PBAoE Psy damage effect as their terror is broadcast to those around them?

 

The point would be both to increase the effectiveness of Mind Control, and also to make it more "neat". Right now it is very bland, in visuals of the powers, in visuals of the affected enemies (compare Confuse vs Possess), and in actual effects.

 

THIS! This entire post actually! Geez buff mind control already lol

 

Edit: I would like to expand on my thoughts.

 

Terrify- They only thing that should be changed about this power is the -ToHit should be added add as secondary effect.

 

Mass Hypnosis- Since this is caused by mind control the only thing that i think should happen to this power is remove the "they get hit and wake up" on this making it more viable with no pet.

 

Telekinesis- I think this should be changed to a toggle immob that does smashing dmg over time. Mind lacks a immob and this can set up containment/dominate.

 

Mass Confusion-  This should have the accuracy buffed and cd time lowered.

 

I think these minor changes greatly improve MC as a main control power.

[Sarkastik Observer]

I hope the edit makes sense..

[Maldroth]

Not sure how hard this idea would be to implement but what about swapping out a power for a pet power called Thrall. You mind control a target and permanently put it under your control until it dies or you release it. Dismissing it would break the thrall and it would go back to aggro behavior. Not sure what scale a pet lands vs a minion, Lieutenant, Boss. Also there might be challenges on how does that interact with Mission bosses that need to be killed for mission complete. Then again you could just dismiss and kill. Give the power regular pet recharge time so it isn't always quite up but often enough to have it. Also as a unique bonus you'd have your pick of what you'd want thralled so if you like a certain mob you'd have something really versatile compared to other sets. The other idea would be kinda like how we have lore pets that we can slot but then you'd need to program UI elements to allow for slotting what you'd want.

 

Telekinesis used to be much better at launch and it got nerfed hard. You could hold AVs with it as I believe it used to stack Magnitude on the hold.

[Coyote]

Terrify- They only thing that should be changed about this power is the -ToHit should be added add as secondary effect.

 

Mass Hypnosis- Since this is caused by mind control the only thing that i think should happen to this power is remove the "they get hit and wake up" on this making it more viable with no pet.

 

Two problems here.

1: Terrify does Fear as a primary effect, and Damage as a secondary. Fearsome Stare does Fear/-ToHit. If we do get a -ToHit in Terrify, it would make sense that it would be a lot weaker than Fearsome Stare, otherwise Dark Control players will rightfully request for a buff to Fearsome Stare, which is an excellent power already. So... expect a weak -ToHit, at best. I would suggest that it may be more practical to get a decent -ToHit debuff from it but only if the targets are already affected by either a Hold or a Sleep from Mind Control.

 

2: Do you realize that you just asked for Mass Hypnosis to become a Hold? With a no-aggro effect and no Accuracy penalty? And with the best Duration vs Recharge in the game? This would become the best or second-best AoE control power in the game, maybe even better than Seeds of Confusion. Giving the mobs a debuff after being woken up is one thing, but this is a buff that takes the power from "weak" to "best in class by a country mile".

[Sarkastik Observer]

Terrify- They only thing that should be changed about this power is the -ToHit should be added add as secondary effect.

 

Mass Hypnosis- Since this is caused by mind control the only thing that i think should happen to this power is remove the "they get hit and wake up" on this making it more viable with no pet.

 

Two problems here.

1: Terrify does Fear as a primary effect, and Damage as a secondary. Fearsome Stare does Fear/-ToHit. If we do get a -ToHit in Terrify, it would make sense that it would be a lot weaker than Fearsome Stare, otherwise Dark Control players will rightfully request for a buff to Fearsome Stare, which is an excellent power already. So... expect a weak -ToHit, at best. I would suggest that it may be more practical to get a decent -ToHit debuff from it but only if the targets are already affected by either a Hold or a Sleep from Mind Control.

 

2: Do you realize that you just asked for Mass Hypnosis to become a Hold? With a no-aggro effect and no Accuracy penalty? And with the best Duration vs Recharge in the game? This would become the best or second-best AoE control power in the game, maybe even better than Seeds of Confusion. Giving the mobs a debuff after being woken up is one thing, but this is a buff that takes the power from "weak" to "best in class by a country mile".

 

I like the suggestion for terrify to get a -ToHit.. And for mass hypno.. Yes i did in a way.. It may be over kill and it may be better to have a -recharge after they wake up but it makes up for no pet.. Although the change to telekinesis would be great all on its own if it's moderate smash dot. Mind needs a buff. I still love the set though.

[Redlynne]

Counter-proposal.

 

If you're talking Pie In The Sky wishful thinking about Mind Control, and how to "advantage" the powerset using some of the more modern techniques available long after Issue 0 so as to synergize the powerset at bit better ... I'd want to rig a way for use of Confuse to reduce the recharge time of Mass Confusion by a little bit ... for use of Domination to reduce the recharge time of Total Domination by a little bit ... and use of Terrify to have a chance to instantly recharge Mass Hypnosis.

 

Basic notion being that:

• Confusing single targets "speeds up" how quickly you can Mass Confuse groups of enemies.  I'm thinking "Force Feedback-ish" recharge bonus amount/duration applying to Mass Confusion ONLY, rather than globally, after each use of Confuse that hits its single target.
  
• Dominating single targets "speeds up" how quickly you can Total Domination groups of enemies.  I'm thinking "Force Feedback-ish" recharge bonus amount/duration applying to Total Domination ONLY, rather than globally, after each use of Dominate that hits its single target.
  
• Give Terrify a chance to proc an instant recharge of Mass Hypnosis, so as to provide a 1-2-3 setup for AoE containment for Terrify.  Note that this would enable a sort of "backdoor" way to use Terrify "through" a fragile mez such as Sleep (kinda sorta).

 

Coding for the first two might be tricky, owing to the fact that as far as I know that kind of recharge buffing to a single power might require a Clever Use Of Game Mechanics Programming™ to pull off.

Coding for the third one would be simply a matter of porting over the instant recharge effect from Water Blast for Water Jet or for Build Up out of the Stalker Kinetic Melee powerset.  That coding already exists and is in use for known powers and powersets, so it ought to be quite doable.

 

 

 

Oh and while we're engaging in idle wishful thinking ... it would be really nice to Unnerf Telekinesis at a bare minimum.

[EmperorSteele]

Hmm, I've got some thoughts on this, too. I'm going to preface that I like the combo'ing idea in general, but I also kinda hate the comboing systems in other sets because it forces you to take specific powers. One of the great things about this game is build choice. Being a Mind Controller and not taking TK is a legitimate build choice. Taking Dual Pistols and not taking Swap Ammo, or taking Beam Rifle without taking Disintegrate is... dicey. Those powersets' entire gimmick is based around those abilities.

 

First thoughts: Straight damage increase. The first few powers play like a blaster set. Give it extra damage to accommodate that playstyle. The damage should be such that, assuming at least a 50% damage enhancement in the powers, that Dom, Lev, and Mes should kill an even conning foe at level 50 without the added effect of any damage buffs or resistance debuffs. (Currently, you need about 100% damage enhancement and at least a 25% damage buff to do so, and this includes with containment).

 

Sleeps (or at least the one in Mass Hypnosis) should be treated differently: the foes only have a chance to wake up when hit. The chance increases based either on the strength of the attack, or their health percentage. (So a foe at full health would wake up when hit by a massive alpha, but suffering some DoT should probably allow them to stay asleep for a moment). Following MH with Terrify should increase terrify's damage and possibly add the tohit debuff that it was kinda supposed to have.

 

Perhaps had a damage component to TK: Psi damage on activation, and it has a chance to Proc more damage maybe once every 10 seconds. Or like someone else suggested, have all foes in the TK cone be affected by Levitate when that power is cast on the anchor.

 

***

 

My second thought (which would be a LOOOOOOT of work across the board and would make a lot of people very unhappy) is a revamp to all Controllers in regards to Containment.

 

I think Containment should come in "tiers", and do extra damage based on how locked down a foe is. Also, more types of Mez would give Containment. Containment would also work on foes who have mag stacked, even if they're currently immune to the effect (Looking at AVs here). Here's the list:

 

Sleep: +200% damage while asleep, +25% for every 3 points of Mag above Mez threshold (Max +300%)

 

Hold: +100% while held, +50% damage for every 3 points of mag stacked (max +250%)

 

Stun/Terrorized/Confused: +50% while under these effects, +25% damage for every 3 points of mag stacked. (Max 200%)

 

Immob: +25% damage while immobilized. No additional stacking bonus.

 

The %s would apply as separate damage, like Containment is now, that way it benefits from, and doesn't butt up against, a Controller's low damage cap.

 

This is all based (roughly) on how easy/hard it is to stack certain Mez effects, and how well each mez effect stops an AI from acting or attacking back. For instance, Hold stops a foe completely, but it's easy to stack, so I made that the "baseline".  Sleep takes a foe right out of the fight, but it's really hard to stack (especially if the sleep gets broken by more damage), so it gets the highest bonus. Immobs don't stop foes from attacking, and is super easy to stack, so it gets the lowest bonus. Terror still allows the foe to move and attack, but usually only once, and it's hard to stack, so it gets put in the mid-tier. Also, the different mezzes and their max damages stack. So if you have a foe held, then hit him with a sleep, then hit him with Levitate, that power gets +3.5x damage.

 

And yes, this would have the semi-indirect effect of buffing Mind, and nerfing almost every other controller set. A better thing to do would probably just allow Confuse and Terror to give Containment. This would buff Dark, Plant and Illu, too, even though none of them need it. Maybe, in the spirit of the thread, make it so that only the confuse effect of Mass Confusion gives the caster Containment on those mobs?

 

Because, speaking of the thread, here's the thing: I don't think MC should be available every fight, especially not by default and without some good slotting. And yeah, it does seem to have sucky stats compared to other mass confuse powers, especially given it's tier, but "fixing" it would barely solve Mind's other issues, especially compared to other sets. If we're gonna change the powerset around, we need to do it right instead of applying a band-aid.

[Vanden]

I’ve played a lot of Mind Control and have never felt like the set is underpowered. I’ve played a little bit of Elec and Plant, not really enough to get a read on the sets, but from the way players talk about their confuses it sounds more like they need to be nerfed rather than Mind’s buffed, though I wouldn’t oppose Total Dom and Mass Confuse have their acc penalties removed.