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Posted

With upcoming changes to Tankers, there was some discussion going on about area effects for many of the sets, and it occurred to me that Super Strength has ONE area attack.  Foot Stomp.  Hand Clap is area effect, but doesn't do any damage.

 

So, I'm making a suggestion, to add an area effect to a couple of other Super Strength powers.

 

First, Hurl.  The character rips up a big chunk of ground and throws it at a target, where it shatters and sends debris flying around.  I think it would fit the power perfectly to have an area effect at point of impact.

 

Second, Haymaker.  I think a cone effect could be added to this.  We've seen the Hulk do the double overhand smash and it has that cone shockwave.

 

Third, Hand Clap.  Really, I'd rather see them add a bit of damage to ALL knockback, relative to the amount of knockback done, but failing that, a bit of damage could be added to Hand Clap.  I mean, every NPC that has it does damage with it.

 

Just some thoughts to buff Super Strength a little.  I think it could use it.

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Posted
11 minutes ago, Ultimo said:

Just some thoughts to buff Super Strength a little.  I think it could use it.

I lol’d

 

Super Strength is already a top tier set for Tanks/Brutes.  It doesn’t need any help.

 

Also, right now, Foot Stomp is better than your average melee AoE power specifically *because* it’s the only AoE in the set.

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What this team needs is more Defenders

Posted

That's fine, you're entitled to your opinion.  I think Super Strength should perform somewhat better than it does, as I've said elsewhere.

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Posted
2 hours ago, Psyonico said:

I lol’d

 

Super Strength is already a top tier set for Tanks/Brutes.  It doesn’t need any help.

 

Also, right now, Foot Stomp is better than your average melee AoE power specifically *because* it’s the only AoE in the set.

is it a top performing set or is it a popular thematic set because super heroes means someone with super strength

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Posted
2 hours ago, Ultimo said:

That's fine, you're entitled to your opinion

 

That's not my opinion (I'll give my opinion at the end of this post).  

1 minute ago, kelika2 said:

is it a top performing set or is it a popular thematic set because super heroes means someone with super strength

Conveniently, both.

 

It has been shown by people who test sets that SS is a top performing set.  You can also compare AoEs in other sets to see that Foot Stomp is better on average than PBAoEs from sets that have multiple AoE damage powers.  Rage is on helluva drug.  Even post nerf it does +70% damage to all, which leads attacks to do slightly more damage on average than other sets, however, the real strength of SS is the fact that Rage can self stack, giving you +140% damage to all.  Perma Double Stacked Rage is a thing on most SS builds, giving you 140% damage boost 5/6th of the time and then a damage penalty the other 1/6th.  BUT, and this is key, Procs are not affected by this damage debuff, meaning an SS built with heavy proc investment can still output reasonable damage numbers even during the rage crash.

 

So, put this together, you've got ~65-70% more damage than other sets that build for procs (the highest way to deal damage for tanks) PLUS you get a 40% to-hit bonus, meaning you don't even have to worry about slotting accuracy, therefore you can slot another proc for more damage.

 

My opinion of SS is actually in the minority.  I hate the set because I can't stand the Rage mechanic.  I know it would be a nerf, but I'd like the set more if the base damage from all attacks was boosted and Rage was replaced with traditional build up.

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What this team needs is more Defenders

Posted
2 minutes ago, Psyonico said:

 

That's not my opinion (I'll give my opinion at the end of this post).  

Conveniently, both.

 

It has been shown by people who test sets that SS is a top performing set.  You can also compare AoEs in other sets to see that Foot Stomp is better on average than PBAoEs from sets that have multiple AoE damage powers.  Rage is on helluva drug.  Even post nerf it does +70% damage to all, which leads attacks to do slightly more damage on average than other sets, however, the real strength of SS is the fact that Rage can self stack, giving you +140% damage to all.  Perma Double Stacked Rage is a thing on most SS builds, giving you 140% damage boost 5/6th of the time and then a damage penalty the other 1/6th.  BUT, and this is key, Procs are not affected by this damage debuff, meaning an SS built with heavy proc investment can still output reasonable damage numbers even during the rage crash.

 

So, put this together, you've got ~65-70% more damage than other sets that build for procs (the highest way to deal damage for tanks) PLUS you get a 40% to-hit bonus, meaning you don't even have to worry about slotting accuracy, therefore you can slot another proc for more damage.

 

My opinion of SS is actually in the minority.  I hate the set because I can't stand the Rage mechanic.  I know it would be a nerf, but I'd like the set more if the base damage from all attacks was boosted and Rage was replaced with traditional build up.

I have to admit, I'm not a fan of Rage either.  However, you're not comparing Foot Stomp to other AOEs, you're comparing Foot Stomp+Rage.  Granted, you CAN get Rage up almost permanently, but that's a bit beside the point... in part because Foot Stomp is the LAST power in the set.  If I had my way, I'd like to see four things changed.

 

1) Change knockback, so it does damage relative to the amount of knockback done.  Nothing dramatic, just enough to make knockback more desirable.

2) Add an AOE effect to Hurl, and move it down, so players get it earlier.  Lifting heavy things is kind of definitive of Strength, and Hurl is the only power that does it.

3) Reduce the reliance on KO Blow and Rage by rebalancing the set so the damage is more evenly distributed through the set.

4) Adjust Rage so it makes the Knockback effect UNRESISTABLE.  Even by AVs (but not Giant Monsters).  I'd also make the recharge a bit longer, but reduce the crash.

 

There are other things I'd like to see them do, cosmetic things (like flying debris, cracks on the ground and other surfaces, etc.), but those four items are the only real functional ones I'd like to see adjusted.  I really don't expect it would ever happen, but I can float the idea and they can consider or ignore it as they please.

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Posted (edited)

I hate super strength as it is, and always have, because of Rage. I really hoped for a change shortly after homecoming relaunched, when the devs said they wanted to rebalnce it.

But the stupid flood of outraged posts from people who wanted damage, damage, more damage flooded every good intention and it was left untouched. i doubt it will ever get looked at again, although the Rage mechanic should really get changed and powers adjusted.

Something similar happened to dark melee later, it was changed, some powers that weren't intended to crit instead did, min maxers tasted the power of 2000 hp area damage, and one week later when it was removed they wanted to keep it and started whining. And so the devs reverted all the changes back, thus the set ended in a worse state than it would have been if there wasn't that much complaining.

Edited by Fireburn
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Posted

With all due respect Ultimo, I think it would be appropriate for you to take advice from forum posters and up your own game before asking for City of Heroes to do any changes of its own. Super Strength is not underpowered, but it seems like everything is going to feel underpowered in your hands - the way your threads read.

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Posted (edited)
On 6/30/2025 at 3:20 AM, Fireburn said:

I hate super strength as it is, and always have, because of Rage. I really hoped for a change shortly after homecoming relaunched, when the devs said they wanted to rebalnce it.

But the stupid flood of outraged posts from people who wanted damage, damage, more damage flooded every good intention and it was left untouched. i doubt it will ever get looked at again, although the Rage mechanic should really get changed and powers adjusted.

Something similar happened to dark melee later, it was changed, some powers that weren't intended to crit instead did, min maxers tasted the power of 2000 hp area damage, and one week later when it was removed they wanted to keep it and started whining. And so the devs reverted all the changes back, thus the set ended in a worse state than it would have been if there wasn't that much complaining.

Its you non minmaxers who whine and get shit ruined, not us. We’re trying to HELP your asses.

 

There are a lot more of you than us and since most non minmaxers dont know half of what they’re talking about or literally talk too goddamn much things that WOULD be awesome get removed and “fixed” or don’t make it in at all.

 

I’m in CB, a lot of non minmaxers are also in CB, and are a lot more vocal than me, or rather cheerlead and shout louder so my ACTUAL tested feedback gets drowned out, as does the sparse other minmaxers, in a wave of nauseating nonsense and drab memes/“jokes”.

 

So if you’re pointing fingers, get it right at least.

Edited by Seed22
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Posted
On 6/30/2025 at 12:55 PM, arcane said:

With all due respect Ultimo, I think it would be appropriate for you to take advice from forum posters and up your own game before asking for City of Heroes to do any changes of its own. Super Strength is not underpowered, but it seems like everything is going to feel underpowered in your hands - the way your threads read.

I always find it interesting that people offer "all due respect" before making comments with very little respect.  I don't imagine you meant it that way, but that's the way it reads.

 

I have played the game for a long time, so I do have some sense of the power sets.  I never said Super Strength was underpowered, I said I thought it was kind of middle of the pack, and deserves a little buff.  Adding a bit of AOE to a set with almost none strikes me as a relatively minor buff.  It's not going to greatly increase damage, it's just going to add a bit of utility.  But, as I say, I don't really anticipate any changes will happen.  I'm just putting the idea out there.  If by some miracle they decided to make a change to knockback, or to Hurl, or what have you, I'd be as surprised as anyone.

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Posted

Hurl being an AoE would be cool... but what if it was a super narrow cone with a high target max? Just change the animation a little so the boulder clears a swath through the enemies.

 

That would be badass.

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Posted

Keep ya grubby mitts off Rage! It's fine just as it is.

Not for nothing but I find it difficult to believe SS is a top-damage set considering how many critters resist smashing damage, and this comes from someone whose main has been an Invul/SS tank since 2004. I mean it holds its own, but I highly doubt it's at the top of the list.

That being said I wouldn't mind seeing the KB in Hand Clap reduced to KD so I don't have to burn a slot for a KB2KD IO and the stun upgraded to 100% chance MAG 3. A small amount of damage would be the cherry on top as it would open the door for a lot more procs.

And while I also wouldn't object to Haymaker being turned into a melee cone, I find Sands of Mu works well for that. Along with the Blackwand and Nemesis Staff they're great powers to use when Rage drops as they're immune to damage debuffs.

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Posted

Rage should go the way of <insert extinct animal here> and all of that power and to hit rolled into all the other powers, as many people have requested for years. Seriously Rage holds the set back from being buffed by the Devs who fear overpowering it.
 

In the era of “modifying” overpowered things that HC currently is I think anyone expecting buffs for SS as it exists today, needs to pass whatever they are smoking around to the rest of us. LOL

 

Mind you I agree and disagree with some of the recent modifications (some stuff changed was so obvious that it was going to be eventually changed that Stevie Wonder could have called it), I’m just keeping it real for anyone claiming that SS as it exists today would ever get buffs. It won’t.

 

Not without numerous changes at the same time.

Posted

Thank you, we don't have pennies in Canada anymore.

 

Though, I suppose the US doesn't have pennies either, they have cents.  The US never used the British pence.

Posted

Ah, Super Strength.. changes are coming but not the changes some would expect. 

Buffs.. well, in aggregate it may preform slightly better though folks should expect over-performing powers to be 'tuned' downward while underperformers are repurposed. 

Rage could likely get replaced with a new mechanic.

This is the trend and should not be a surprise to anyone, until it is.

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Posted
4 hours ago, Snarky said:

If they touch SS they will ruin it.  They are smart enough to know it.  I nod in approval yet watch warily 

 

Something has to be done about Rage.  That has to be done.

 

 

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Posted
30 minutes ago, Jacke said:

 

Something has to be done about Rage.  That has to be done.

 

 

they worked on smoothing out Rage.  The folks that double stack it (all fifteen of them) bitched so loud and long they dropped the whole project

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Posted
7 minutes ago, Snarky said:

they worked on smoothing out Rage.  The folks that double stack it (all fifteen of them) bitched so loud and long they dropped the whole project


For real. Drop the double stacking and crash. That's all they need to do. But once again the minmaxers ruined it for everyone.

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Posted

To simply state my position, I skip Handclap completely in an INV/SS Tanker build because it does no damage and is the exact opposite of what I want to happen in Melee.

Invincibility relies on keeping Mobs in melee so you benefit from the Multiple Foes to boost your Defense, not knocking them out of range. If it did damage, maybe worth a try, but it creates more problems than it cures and I believe Rage makes this set fine without it. 

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Posted
52 minutes ago, Marine X said:

To simply state my position, I skip Handclap completely in an INV/SS Tanker build because it does no damage and is the exact opposite of what I want to happen in Melee.

Invincibility relies on keeping Mobs in melee so you benefit from the Multiple Foes to boost your Defense, not knocking them out of range. If it did damage, maybe worth a try, but it creates more problems than it cures and I believe Rage makes this set fine without it. 


Yup. Adding a KB2KD IO gives a significant improvement, but it's still of questionable value with only a 50% chance of the disorient affecting LTs. It's not a terrible damage mitigator, but ultimately there's gonna be something better to take.

Posted

My Regen/SS tanker took handclap with a KB->KD, and a +recharge slotted.   It's a fast attack that helps mitigation.   My Inv/SS tank does not have it.

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Posted

I've noticed the discussion shifted from adding more AoEs to Super Strength to discussing Rage. As far as the Rage part goes, I've never been a fan of Rage. However, that statement should be taken with a grain of salt because I've also never been a fan of Aim or Build Up. I will take Rage, but only when I'm out of powers for my build, because Rage is a good choice for amplifying my damage when things go sideways. I'm fine with players double-stacking Rage, to each their own. However, I wouldn't shed any tears if Rage was changed. (Not replaced, changed. Depending on the change.)

 

As for adding more AoEs to Super Strength? I personally don't think that fits thematically. (Typically, when I see a super strong character in comics or cartoons making AoE attacks, it is because that character picked up a truck or a tank or some other massive object and is swinging that around to clear the area. If the character isn't using some over-sized weapon? The character is quickly pulverizing single targets consecutively.) I'm also very much a fan of having access to a set that focuses on ST attacks. My Super Strength Brute does just fine clearing out spawns quickly using ST attacks. (Just like super strong characters do in the comics.) I very much enjoy it. And should I want to spam AoEs, I can throw a Foot Stomp slightly faster than every 10 seconds. No Hasten or anything else required to get there. So I can only imagine what a player that focuses on recharge like Holy Quad players can get their recharges down to.

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