Enemy Difficulty through the Ages

[Snarky]

9 hours ago, ivanhedgehog said:

then you wont mind if it is removed from all melee sets. since it works that well with inspirations.

Wheelchairs are great.  That doesn’t mean we should cut off everyone’s legs. 

[Doomguide2005]

4 hours ago, Glacier Peak said:

Inspirations are there to use. If a player chooses to ignore them, that's on them.

     How are you keeping them flowing?  I can start off with a bunch but the availability steadily drops over time.  That is not to say there aren't options to help.  Amplifiers are a thing.  Clarion is a thing.  Learning how much you can just stand there and let them pound until the mez wears off is a thing.  But many late game mobs can burn through inspires especially mez protection inspires rather rapidly compared to how fast they can be  replenished.   Inspires alone don't do it unless notoriety is low, spawn size is low and patience is a close friend.

    

[Glacier Peak]

12 minutes ago, Doomguide2005 said:

     How are you keeping them flowing?  I can start off with a bunch but the availability steadily drops over time.  That is not to say there aren't options to help.  Amplifiers are a thing.  Clarion is a thing.  Learning how much you can just stand there and let them pound until the mez wears off is a thing.  But many late game mobs can burn through inspires especially mez protection inspires rather rapidly compared to how fast they can be  replenished.   Inspires alone don't do it unless notoriety is low, spawn size is low and patience is a close friend.

Great question. At Level 1, players can email themselves up to 200 emails with attachments, including Inspirations. 

 

Edit: Additionally, outside of instanced content, players can open the Auction House window using /ah and purchase any number of Inspirations. 

Edited Tuesday at 05:41 PM by Glacier Peak

[skoryy]

1 hour ago, Glacier Peak said:

Great question. At Level 1, players can email themselves up to 200 emails with attachments, including Inspirations. 

 

That's some work to reward ratio you've got going there.

[Snarky]

1 hour ago, Doomguide2005 said:

     How are you keeping them flowing?  I can start off with a bunch but the availability steadily drops over time.  That is not to say there aren't options to help.  Amplifiers are a thing.  Clarion is a thing.  Learning how much you can just stand there and let them pound until the mez wears off is a thing.  But many late game mobs can burn through inspires especially mez protection inspires rather rapidly compared to how fast they can be  replenished.   Inspires alone don't do it unless notoriety is low, spawn size is low and patience is a close friend.

    

The Accolade for Strike Forces is a power (10 min cooldown) that is a breakfree.  
 

Say normally I carry 3 break frees.  If i need one less than every ten minute then carrying two +the power is infinite breakfrees.  In a mission where youbare getting slammed you may use all 3. But the power may be up by the time you need the 4th. If not you should rethink the whole mission lol

[Skyhawke]

8 hours ago, Snarky said:

Wheelchairs are great.  That doesn’t mean we should cut off everyone’s legs. 

 

At least everyone would be on equal footing then. 😊

[Glacier Peak]

3 hours ago, skoryy said:

That's some work to reward ratio you've got going there.

Not so much. The game has been back for six years and any new player can ask for help - the Homecoming Team made it a priority to focus on QoL improvements to make it easy for new players to learn the game and ask for help.

[Wavicle]

"I personally don't play this content" != "This content is all but abandoned".

 

Universalizing your own experience is almost always wrong.

[vibal]

The idea that every toon can solo +4/x8 is only true if you cherry pick circumstance and available powers (i.e. just use a break free). The vast majority of characters can solo a +4/x8 spawn, but that's not the same as soloing a whole mission at that rate. You can use incarnates to fill gaps, but the vast majority of builds are going to lack in more than one area (mez protection, sustain, damage, etc.). 

 

You CAN use a break free, until you run out. You CAN email yourself more and leave mission, but seriously... nobody is doing that and flexing (right??). You CAN take clarion, but are you sure you have enough healing (rebirth)? Enough Defense (barrier)? Rune of protection is there for mez protection and aid self for sustain, but I'd love to see a functional build that includes both of those picks.

 

Capped defense is also a great tool, except every enemy group will cause cascading. Most characters need something after the alpha to mitigate (other than more damage).

 

Judgements are extremely good. They also do about 50% damage to a +4 minion. You are definitely going to be getting clapped back. 

 

Hyperbole aside the list of builds that can consistently solo +4/x8 without cherry picking mob types (re: council) is pretty slim. 

[laudwic]

On 7/13/2025 at 11:28 AM, Crysis said:

Honestly, at least on HC, not wrong.

 

On Live, I had very few characters pre-Incarnate that could solo +4/x8 across every PVE critter in the game.  A few that could do most but had holes in their defensives (usually lack of status protection), and only 3-4 full IO’d out toons that could do +4/x8 against anything and everything.

 

 

 

Here's my problem when folks say they are soloing +4/x8, I have no idea how they are actually fighting them when they say this.  If you have incarnate level shifts, +4 could mean +2 or even less.  If you are pulling from groups, then x8 just means your taking your time whittling down groups not that you're fighting a spawn that is designed for a group of 8 all at once.

 

[tidge]

Not that long ago...

 

[lemming]

57 minutes ago, laudwic said:

Here's my problem when folks say they are soloing +4/x8, I have no idea how they are actually fighting them when they say this.  If you have incarnate level shifts, +4 could mean +2 or even less.  If you are pulling from groups, then x8 just means your taking your time whittling down groups not that you're fighting a spawn that is designed for a group of 8 all at once.

Yea, some chars of mine can do +4/x8 by just jumping in on the majority of mobs, but it may take some time.

A few of my blasters can as well, but it's by doing good pulls and snipes, plus running if needed.  And having Power of the Phoenix in my rotation...

[kanga]

Eh, its fine where it is. power of hindsight after all, besides, getting a build up to that level of strength takes time, planning and a s***ton of farming to complete.

[Seed22]

+4×8.  The discord builds can do it easily. Most of my own builds, especially the newer ones I had planned and tested, could do it pretty easily.

 

But yes the average player is not soloing +4×8. Most are probably playing +0×4 at best, which is fine ofc. Just giving an idea of the playerbase, if the people I see in CB are to be believed.

Edited Wednesday at 06:09 PM by Seed22

[laudwic]

1 hour ago, Seed22 said:

+4×8.  The discord builds can do it easily. Most of my own builds, especially the newer ones I had planned and tested, could do it pretty easily.

 

But yes the average player is not soloing +4×8. Most are probably playing +0×4 at best, which is fine ofc. Just giving an idea of the playerbase, if the people I see in CB are to be believed.

 

Honestly though, I generally run 1+(my incarnate level shift)/3 or 4 simply because that is the level that I enjoy playing at.  With that being said, I generally play an aggressive take on whole spawn style, I under use incarnates, and it's kinda fun when an ambush gets added in or a second group aggros and adds to the fun.  Could I do higher, sure, but it isn't as fun for me all the time.  All that really matters is that the game is fun.  To me, one of the biggest things is that I can log in, play solo for a short period of time and feel like I did something.   I can group, but I don't need to if I want to accomplish anything.  If I need to quit a mission because of real life, I can.  The latest update with the incredible fun of street sweeping in the Wharf is great for me.  (Its fun finding an elite boss and fighting them, there are tons of good sized spawns to attack - I really appreciate the Devs for this!)

 

Now, some content is harder than others.  Older content is generally easier even after some freshening up of groups.  For example, main world Council is tougher than they were, alternate world Counsel is a cakewalk, but sometimes it is fun to be able to stomp an enemy in a mission.  Compare that to the later Vaz content, or Chimera it is more difficult.   (I swear, in ancient times Elite Bosses are far more common.)  If you want harder content, it is available to you.  Also, if you want to run that empath defender solo, you can adjust the difficulty to make it workable.

 

The point is that the Devs are doing a good job keeping the game fun.  Remember, this is a diverse player base.  Not everyone likes to play the same way.  Some will trick out their build and take powers just to mule in that Luck of the Gambler +Global Recharge, others will take a power because it fits a theme even though their attack chain does not need it or could be better optimized without it.  I want my characters to be able to handle whole spawns, others want to pull spawns together to make a larger melee, and still others want to pull off enemies and chip away.

 

I would expect that most, if not all, of future content to be of the more difficult variety. (Blackwing are fun.)  Yes, there has been power creep on characters with SOs earlier IOs, IO sets and Incarnates, but there has also been some changes with villain groups, and more difficult content added as well.  

 

All in all, I think the Devs are doing a great job to try to keep the game fun and relevant to a lot of playstyles.

 

[Go0gleplex]

Best I'm managing solo with a brute is the +1 that just doubles the number of mobs I'm facing....and that just barely squeaks me by without face-planting very often and burning not a few insps plus SO slotting in at least my defense powers. Squishies get squashed too fast to wanna run that way for me though. Not fun to face plant every other battle or when insp heals run dry.  So again, I don't see any issues with mob difficulties as they are or that they are in any way too easy.

 

Maybe the Devs could make a dedicated server for the IRON TOON folks that enjoy the brutality level of mob, assuming such is even possible? Though I think it might have a fairly low population overall. lol

[ivanhedgehog]

53 minutes ago, laudwic said:

 

Honestly though, I generally run 1+(my incarnate level shift)/3 or 4 simply because that is the level that I enjoy playing at.  With that being said, I generally play an aggressive take on whole spawn style, I under use incarnates, and it's kinda fun when an ambush gets added in or a second group aggros and adds to the fun.  Could I do higher, sure, but it isn't as fun for me all the time.  All that really matters is that the game is fun.  To me, one of the biggest things is that I can log in, play solo for a short period of time and feel like I did something.   I can group, but I don't need to if I want to accomplish anything.  If I need to quit a mission because of real life, I can.  The latest update with the incredible fun of street sweeping in the Wharf is great for me.  (Its fun finding an elite boss and fighting them, there are tons of good sized spawns to attack - I really appreciate the Devs for this!)

 

Now, some content is harder than others.  Older content is generally easier even after some freshening up of groups.  For example, main world Council is tougher than they were, alternate world Counsel is a cakewalk, but sometimes it is fun to be able to stomp an enemy in a mission.  Compare that to the later Vaz content, or Chimera it is more difficult.   (I swear, in ancient times Elite Bosses are far more common.)  If you want harder content, it is available to you.  Also, if you want to run that empath defender solo, you can adjust the difficulty to make it workable.

 

The point is that the Devs are doing a good job keeping the game fun.  Remember, this is a diverse player base.  Not everyone likes to play the same way.  Some will trick out their build and take powers just to mule in that Luck of the Gambler +Global Recharge, others will take a power because it fits a theme even though their attack chain does not need it or could be better optimized without it.  I want my characters to be able to handle whole spawns, others want to pull spawns together to make a larger melee, and still others want to pull off enemies and chip away.

 

I would expect that most, if not all, of future content to be of the more difficult variety. (Blackwing are fun.)  Yes, there has been power creep on characters with SOs earlier IOs, IO sets and Incarnates, but there has also been some changes with villain groups, and more difficult content added as well.  

 

All in all, I think the Devs are doing a great job to try to keep the game fun and relevant to a lot of playstyles.

 

I am fine with adding new groups like last release. That gave content to more players. Changing the old game to suit a certain demographic is not fine. leave the old game as it was and add plenty of new stuff just makes things better for more. 

[vibal]

54 minutes ago, Go0gleplex said:

Best I'm managing solo with a brute is the +1 that just doubles the number of mobs I'm facing....and that just barely squeaks me by without face-planting very often and burning not a few insps plus SO slotting in at least my defense powers. Squishies get squashed too fast to wanna run that way for me though. Not fun to face plant every other battle or when insp heals run dry.  So again, I don't see any issues with mob difficulties as they are or that they are in any way too easy.

 

Maybe the Devs could make a dedicated server for the IRON TOON folks that enjoy the brutality level of mob, assuming such is even possible? Though I think it might have a fairly low population overall. lol

 

 

This is effectively already in the game with the starred content, lab, etc. Those tend to be done in premade's with aggressive team comp requirements. Fun for those that enjoy it, but not something you see pop up in the /LFG all that often. The friction in game tends to be when a player brings their +1 brute to a zerg team which'll cause some of the feelsbads.

 

The sticking point is the idea that folks are out here with their TA/Archery defenders soloing at +4/x8 without some bonkers tomfoolery.

[Glacier Peak]

1 hour ago, vibal said:

This is effectively already in the game with the starred content, lab, etc. Those tend to be done in premade's with aggressive team comp requirements.

No requirements for premade builds necessary and we don't turn anyone away when we run either advanced difficulty content or the Labyrinth (which I am not sure why you lumped together with the former?) on Indomitable - this was discussed on the first page of this thread by the developer who made that content.

[vibal]

49 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

No requirements for premade builds necessary and we don't turn anyone away when we run either advanced difficulty content or the Labyrinth (which I am not sure why you lumped together with the former?) on Indomitable - this was discussed on the first page of this thread by the developer who made that content.

 

Tend to be done doesn't discount that they have been done outside of premades w/voice chat.

[Xalon]

I would say...

 

Yellow and below - not an issue if you pay attention

Orange - depends on the enemy, but doable if you have full health and Inspirations/Cooldowns to burn

Purple - haven't seen one yet

 

Though I have been caught unawares fighting mobs and a yellow or orange sneaks up behind me and does some controller/etc. move and takes half my health. 

 

 

[Glacier Peak]

34 minutes ago, vibal said:

Tend to be done doesn't discount that they have been done outside of premades w/voice chat.

And conversely so as well. 

[vibal]

13 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

And conversely so as well. 

I guess we'll agree to... agree 😄

Edited yesterday at 12:11 AM by vibal

[vibal]

To clarify the dev response on the first page was in regards to whether people are running the content (they are), not how that content was being organized.

[Logansan]

On 7/13/2025 at 11:51 PM, ivanhedgehog said:

You have the ability to set your own difficulty. You are using 20 years of improvements, knowledge  and advantages to get to the pinnacle of power and complaining that you find it too easy. Instead of taking responsibility for yourself and setting your power where you desire it, you whine about it and want to change every ones game to suit you. If the devs put a toggle that would reduce you by 10%, you wouldnt want or use it. If it doesnt hit everyone, it isnt good for you. This isnt to any one in particular, just the trend of "its too easy". It isnt just COH, but gamers in general. 

This discussion could/should had stopped right here.