Eliminate White Salvage

[tidge]

15 minutes ago, Rudra said:

I'm still trying to process the 'everyone disagrees with me but I know everyone agrees with just in secret' comment....

 

It's an Idea Police thing.

[JasperStone]

6 minutes ago, tidge said:

 

It's an Idea Police thing.

 

It's the Coppers!!!!

 

 

 

[shortguy on indom]

•  
• MATHEMATIC PROOF...
• I EARNED IT, NOONE IS GOING TO TAKE IT AWAY FROM ME!
• USUALLY STACK AND HODL A 1000 OR SO IN MY 'VAULT.'
• HOW DARE YOU!

[lemming]

It also makes it faster going for the AH badges for selling

[Forager]

It is mindless busy work. Some people enjoy that, though.

 

In a newer game, I don't think anyone would be defending this system. It's clearly a fake salvage and crafting system. You're not looking for flowers in their native region or hunting a certain part from a specific clockwork... it is definitely fugazi.

 

Think about the glowies we use for "clues" and mechanics in the heist part of the Summer Blockbuster event.

 

You might be surprised at what other people think is fun. A lot of players like sorting their salvage and pretending it really is salvage. What would you replace that with.

Edited 19 hours ago by Forager

[Luminara]

11 minutes ago, Boas said:

White salvage is not an alternative (or complimentary) currency. It is effectively just a different denomination of inf.

 

A currency is anything exchanged for goods or services and within a common framework of agreed value.  In ancient Egypt, grain was a currency.  During the 19th century, company scrip was a currency.  In a post-apocalyptic world, bottlecaps could be a currency.  Whatever people agree to trade for goods or services and has an agreed-upon basic value, that's a currency.  Not just shiny bits of metal or green pieces of paper, anything which two or more people agree to have a set value and agree to trade for goods or services.

 

Salvage is a currency in Co*.  We spend it to acquire specific things in the game.  IOs.  Buffs.  Cosmetic pets.  This currency exists alongside other currencies.  Inf*.  Reward Merits.  Aethers.  We have several currencies in the game.  They're not all labeled as currencies, but they are currencies.  That's their function.

 

11 minutes ago, Boas said:

Suggesting the HC economy would collapse

 

I didn't say the economy would collapse.  Read the post.

 

11 minutes ago, Boas said:

 

if white salvage was eliminated is like saying the US economy would collapse if $2 bills were taken out of circulation.

 

Your analogy betrays your ignorance.  $2 notes are a different denomination of the existing currency in the United States, the dollar standard, not a different currency. Salvage is not a different denomination of inf*, it's a different currency.  That's why the value of salvage on the market fluctuates, whereas 1 inf* is always 1 inf*.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Currency

ttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economics

 

Don't make me get the crayons.

[Yomo Kimyata]

3 hours ago, Boas said:

Maybe it's not clear how effectively worthless white salvage really is. If I had 180 slots of my auction house inventory devoted to white salvage, with 10x pieces in each slot, and could actually sell every piece of it for 1k, that would total 1.8 million inf. Repeat that entire process TEN MORE TIMES, and you MIGHT have enough to nab a SINGLE Apocalypse IO off the AH. GOOD LUCK!

 

Hmm, how about requiring a payment of white salvage before any contact gives you a mission?  "I'm glad you want to help me save Steel Canyon, but I'm going to need, oh, 80 inanimate carbon rods before we can go any further on this."

[Psyonico]

40 minutes ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

 

Hmm, how about requiring a payment of white salvage before any contact gives you a mission?  "I'm glad you want to help me save Steel Canyon, but I'm going to need, oh, 80 inanimate carbon rods before we can go any further on this."

Why do we have inanimate carbon rods but not animate carbon rods?

[Boas]

2 hours ago, Rudra said:

I'm still trying to process the 'everyone disagrees with me but I know everyone agrees with just in secret' comment....

Easy, just think of how people are with you, but the opposite.

 

I want everyone here to do something wild. Boot up the game. Yeah, yeah, a lot of you just play the forums these days, but this is an exercise. Find a build you like. It doesn't have to be an expensive one. Start putting together the sets you need for it. Pay attention to how often you zone and /ah for more of this junk. Every time an old bone, or a broken watch, or anything else with a white name passes through your hands... imagine it DIDN'T. Imagine it didn't HAVE to.

The economic argument may be a valid one, but remember, I'm not saying ALL salvage should be eliminated. White salvage represents a tiny fraction of transactional volume on the marketplace. If anything is going to stabilize or destabilize the economy, it's going to be IOs, IO recipes, rare salvage, and those special enhancements that somehow sell for 300+mil. The fluctuations alone in the prices of these items represent values you'd need hundreds or thousands of white salvage pieces to match. Compared to these, and with inventory limitations, white salvage is effectively valueless.

 

Now, as an aside, I will admit it is sometimes fun to be able to link a piece of salvage in chat. And the icons, they're pretty neat. Some artist at Cryptic back in the day probably had fun making those. So, the artwork should stay in the game, in some form. Maybe as icons for souvenirs. Hey, why don't souvenirs have icons? They're all just little question mark blocks. That's boring!

If you read this much, thanks. You're welcome. If you're still trying to convince yourself that you're not convinced, and assuming you still play the game at all, I have a surprise for you: whenever you see a piece of white salvage, you'll think of this thread, and how you sneered at it. You'll wonder if I'm right. Eventually, you'll admit I am. Eliminate white salvage!

[Boas]

2 hours ago, Luminara said:

I didn't say the economy would collapse.  Read the post.

Oh, so the economy wouldn't collapse if white salvage was eliminated? Thank you for agreeing with me.

 

(edit) You're calling salvage a currency. Can I trade it for anything but inf? Then it may as well just be inf. You're playing with a definition of currency that has no correlation in the real world.

We can assume you've read the Wikipedia page for "economy" longer than I have. That is a concession I will make. So, let's just get back to the main point. What horror lays in wait for us when common salvage is eliminated from the game? Bread lines? People selling off their malnourished alts? What's the worst that can happen?

Edited 17 hours ago by Boas

[skoryy]

5 hours ago, Boas said:

Well, it looks like no one can make any suggestions, because any suggestion that gets implemented would force other players to adhere to a different playstyle. Pack it up, fellas! Just go ahead and delete this whole board!

 

You have absolutely no valid argument for how white salvage contributes to a positive game experience. That's because it doesn't. If white salvage was eliminated from the game entirely, your experience effectively would not change. You'd have to click on menus a bit less. You might make a pittance less inf. That's it.

 

Oh, I see you're just trolling.  Alright then.

 

/e shoves Boss into the Ignore-O-Matic and then dusts hands off like Roger Mosley

 

Okay, anyone for pizza?

[Boas]

2 minutes ago, skoryy said:

 

Oh, I see you're just trolling.  Alright then.

 

/e shoves Boss into the Ignore-O-Matic and then dusts hands off like Roger Mosley

 

Okay, anyone for pizza?

Just to make sure you did it right, my name is Boas, not Boss. Please correct your ignore list entry, thank you.

[lemming]

55 minutes ago, Boas said:

Start putting together the sets you need for it. Pay attention to how often you zone and /ah for more of this junk.

Usually once to zone, but I tend to be organized.   And rarely /ah

[UltraAlt]

8 hours ago, Boas said:

What will we lose?

 

DEV time to other things for the game.

 

I would rather them do other things than use up time reconfiguring all the invention recipes. All of the non-set IO recipes use white salvage. Pretty much all but the level 50 only set IOs use white salvage as well.

 

8 hours ago, Boas said:

Sometimes, creating a work of art requires the commitment to throwing part of it away if it doesn't work.

 

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

 

The system works the way that it is. Why intentionally break it so it must be rebuilt?

[UltraAlt]

7 hours ago, Boas said:

Yeah, that was the point. Even when white salvage is grossly over-valued, it's still not worth enough to bother with it.

 

Just get rid of it!

 

Sounds like you are already getting rid of it and solving your own problem.

[macskull]

Just give us the option to disable salvage by rarity. It doesn't need to be this ridiculously complicated.

[Troo]

@Boas I disagree

[Ghost]

4 hours ago, macskull said:

Just give us the option to disable salvage by rarity. It doesn't need to be this ridiculously complicated.

A lot of things don’t need to be complicated, that in reality are.

[Luminara]

8 hours ago, Boas said:

Oh, so the economy wouldn't collapse if white salvage was eliminated? Thank you for agreeing with me.

 

 

8 hours ago, Boas said:

(edit) You're calling salvage a currency. Can I trade it for anything but inf?

 

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Common_Invention_Recipes

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Category:Sets_for_levels_10-15

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Category:Sets_for_levels_15-20

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Category:Sets_for_levels_20-25

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Category:Sets_for_levels_21-25

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Category:Sets_for_levels_25-30

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Category:Sets_for_levels_30-35

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Category:Sets_for_levels_35-40

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Category:Sets_for_levels_40-50

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Category:Sets_for_level_50

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Empowerment_Station_Buff_Recipes_and_Ingredients

 

8 hours ago, Boas said:

You're playing with a definition of currency that has no correlation in the real world.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complementary_currency

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Company_scrip

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Token_money

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coupon

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebate_(marketing)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voucher

 

8 hours ago, Boas said:

We can assume you've read the Wikipedia page for "economy" longer than I have.

 

I've read everything more thoroughly than you have.

 

8 hours ago, Boas said:

What horror lays in wait for us when common salvage is eliminated from the game?

 

[Yomo Kimyata]

11 hours ago, Psyonico said:

Why do we have inanimate carbon rods but not animate carbon rods?

 

In Rod we trust.

[Boas]

6 hours ago, Luminara said:

I've read everything more thoroughly than you have.

Nothing you've said explains why white salvage is critical to the economy. You're just completely missing the point. You are defending outdated, overly complicated tedium with scary imaginary scenarios and a barrage of irrelevant links. I'm asking you why, and you're just saying because.

 

You tried to tell me in the post you re-linked (twice?) that new players would suffer. How do you know this? If a new player wants to deck out their first character, they need inf more than anything else, to buy the recipes and materials. White salvage only represents the least necessary, most annoying extra step between inf and a crafted IO ready to be slotted.

 

And let's be real, if you care about the new player experience, you should be advocating for the revision of these convoluted old systems... like I am!

 

Real-world economic principles do not translate accurately to this ingame economy. You can't use demonic blood samples to buy drugs or guns. You can't barter for groceries or pay rent with your stacks of regenerating flesh. Once it's in your hands, the only things it's used for are crafting and selling. You can't do anything with salvage that doesn't involve inf. Yes, this also applies to empowerment tables. Why? The salvage you put into it can be bought with inf. The price is capped by salvage that's artificially seeded into the market, and thus insulated from inflation. This makes salvage more akin to a commodity than anything else. Moreover, it makes your repeated assertion that it's an alternate currency (which, again, is not an argument for its relevance) invalid. Link all the wiki articles you want, you're wrong.

 

Someone disagreed with me and said I didn't have an alternative. How about this? Imagine if, anywhere in the game you see a requirement for a piece of common salvage, you also see the option to pay an inf fee instead. Let's be punitive and say +20% the seeded market price of common salvage, 12k inf a pop. If I completely ignored white salvage and only paid the fee, and I needed 50 pieces of common salvage for a build I'm working on (which is more than I'd need, but I'm making a point), I would still only end up paying 600k inf. That is practically nothing. You can vendor a few white IO recipes for that much inf.

 

I would pay the fee every time.

 

How critical is white salvage now, really?

[Rudra]

4 minutes ago, Boas said:

Nothing you've said explains why white salvage is critical to the economy. You're just completely missing the point. You are defending outdated, overly complicated tedium with scary imaginary scenarios and a barrage of irrelevant links. I'm asking you why, and you're just saying because.

 

You tried to tell me in the post you re-linked (twice?) that new players would suffer. How do you know this? If a new player wants to deck out their first character, they need inf more than anything else, to buy the recipes and materials. White salvage only represents the least necessary, most annoying extra step between inf and a crafted IO ready to be slotted.

 

And let's be real, if you care about the new player experience, you should be advocating for the revision of these convoluted old systems... like I am!

 

Real-world economic principles do not translate accurately to this ingame economy. You can't use demonic blood samples to buy drugs or guns. You can't barter for groceries or pay rent with your stacks of regenerating flesh. Once it's in your hands, the only things it's used for are crafting and selling. You can't do anything with salvage that doesn't involve inf. Yes, this also applies to empowerment tables. Why? The salvage you put into it can be bought with inf. The price is capped by salvage that's artificially seeded into the market, and thus insulated from inflation. This makes salvage more akin to a commodity than anything else. Moreover, it makes your repeated assertion that it's an alternate currency (which, again, is not an argument for its relevance) invalid. Link all the wiki articles you want, you're wrong.

 

Someone disagreed with me and said I didn't have an alternative. How about this? Imagine if, anywhere in the game you see a requirement for a piece of common salvage, you also see the option to pay an inf fee instead. Let's be punitive and say +20% the seeded market price of common salvage, 12k inf a pop. If I completely ignored white salvage and only paid the fee, and I needed 50 pieces of common salvage for a build I'm working on (which is more than I'd need, but I'm making a point), I would still only end up paying 600k inf. That is practically nothing. You can vendor a few white IO recipes for that much inf.

 

I would pay the fee every time.

 

How critical is white salvage now, really?

You have yet to explain why removing common salvage should be done beyond you don't like it. Common salvage serves its purpose in the game. You want to remove a game element because you do not like it. Simply not liking something that you have already admitted takes you no time to get rid of is not a reason to remove it from the game.

 

And why am I even bothering since I already know how you will respond to this post given that you have already responded to other posts telling you the same thing with basically "so what?"?