Bring Balance to Homecoming

[Ghost]

1 hour ago, lyra said:

more ideas:

 

no debt, just minusxp so you downlvl if you die a lot

make travelpowers only work in caves

max playtime per day limited but you can pay real money for xtratime.

 

 

I know it’s in jest, but I like the down leveling idea.

[lyra]

or: when you die, you receive an injury/debuff with a real-time countdown of at least 2 hours.

-50 run speed, etc.

[battlewraith]

When you die, it locks that character out for a period of time and randomly selects another character from your roster, who appears doing a grieving emote.

[Ukase]

2 hours ago, lyra said:

or: when you die, you receive an injury/debuff with a real-time countdown of at least 2 hours.

I actually like this idea, but my concern would be that people would lean towards not teaming to avoid it. Maybe reduce the duration to 5 minutes. 

I've had characters that were doing very well solo, on challenging settings. Only to team up for a tf, keep those same settings, and teammates get you killed by aggroing a group and then running next to you and you take splash damage, while you're focused on something else, like reviving a teammate, or killing the last mob of the the previous group. 

[skoryy]

3 hours ago, lyra said:

or: when you die, you receive an injury/debuff with a real-time countdown of at least 2 hours.

-50 run speed, etc.

 

If the goal is to kill teaming and task forces and the game itself, then go for it. 

 

But that does seem to be the trend of the discussion: How creatively can we kill the game.

[Indystruck]

if you die in the game they send a drone to your house

[starro]

Nostalgia is tricky but the only way is forward with fresh ideas.    I don’t want to go back to pre-HC at this point.  I would rather try other post 2019 servers than go to pre issue 24 again.  The good old days were the good old days but it’s time to move forward with new content and approaches.   

Problems will always exist in COH. Elements of this game will forever gain and lose favor based on whoever is running this thing.    I do say anyone storing more than 20 emails in their account - good luck !  That thing is a risky black hole some days.  

[JKCarrier]

8 hours ago, lyra said:

no debt, just minusxp so you downlvl if you die a lot

 

Well, I'd never need to roll another alt. I could just play the same guy forever, since he'd never get out of single-digit-levels... 😱

[lemming]

I find most "we should go back to issue X" is the poster's recall of issue X.   Which doesn't include any of the crappy stuff that has been fixed it seems.   And doesn't hurt to mention, the old code doesn't exist anymore.   It can be recreated, maybe, but ick.  And most of the OP is pre-score stuff.   (Looks like email had the most change, though I don't see where the email number changed, I see under SCORE you could email  account bound items)

[Ghost]

1 hour ago, JKCarrier said:

 

Well, I'd never need to roll another alt. I could just play the same guy forever, since he'd never get out of single-digit-levels... 😱

Guess it depends upon how reckless you play 🤭

[GM_GooglyMoogly]

15 hours ago, ScarySai said:

On 8/7/2025 at 1:51 PM, macskull said:

since the GMs seem to have zero desire to actually action bad apples in any meaningful way.

 

They also actively punish the wrong people, lol.

 

Disagree with both statements.

[FupDup]

I'm going to actually make a serious post in this rapidly deteriorating thread, regarding procs and a little bit of general balancing. These are all based on things that we know to be possible coding-wise, since if that were not an issue, I would very much want deeper things done. The wishlist here includes:

 

>Slotted recharge no longer reduces PPM. Perhaps increase the weighting of animation times in the PPM formula to help slow casting powers suck a little less (it's currently only a small factor). Base recharge remains a factor so that we don't reintroduce the old "buzzsaw" meta. 

 

>Non-damage procs like Energy Manipulator and Decimation get brought up to at least 3.5 PPM to match damage procs (or a little higher even), because damage is intrinsically more valuable than anything else. Resistance debuff procs are counted as damage procs here, as are Build Up procs, so they are not getting buffed probably. I'm also counting things like Regenerative Tissue in this category of things to buff. 

 

>The proc-boosting mechanic from the new Cupid set is proliferated to all procs, with the power of this boost depending on each individual case (i.e. purples like Hecatomb should only get a boost at 6 slots, but crap sets need a giga boost). 

 

>Add a lot more enhancement sets, including ones with procs, to categories currently lacking to help level the playing field a bit (i.e. Stuns and Sleeps need procs way more than Holds do). Try to include underutilized set bonuses like range in these where possible/logical. 

 

>All existing sets now go up to level 50, and have more set bonuses added if their existing tiers are shit. Note that I'm not asking for the current bonuses to be stronger, just for there to be a second bonus added to each tier (i.e. 2 bonuses at 2 slots instead of just 1 bonus). Sets with good bonuses already like Cloud Senses of course won't need that. 

 

>Some specific bonuses like recovery, regen, and damage are kinda weak and might need a bump. 

 

>Buff Sentinels, because yes. 

Edited Friday at 11:09 PM by FupDup

[biostem]

Why not cut out the middle-man, so to speak - make procs consistent effects, and just reduce the damage or effect to a level that adds up to the same general PPM result we have now...

[FupDup]

Just now, biostem said:

Why not cut out the middle-man, so to speak - make procs consistent effects, and just reduce the damage or effect to a level that adds up to the same general PPM result we have now...

Somebody on the Discord actually had a similar idea, where procs would have a 100% chance to fire off but the damage dealt would scale based on your PPM calculation, so basically slower powers would get a bigger chunk of damage while quick spammy powers would only get a small bit for the same proc. 

 

I wouldn't mind it because I don't like RNG in combat (hypocritical opinion to have in a game with tab targeting, I know), but it would certainly detract from the "flavor" of procs being a dice roll thing and there might be people who like the gambling element. And IDK how it would look in terms of coding so I just went with simple stuff. 

[MTeague]

On 8/7/2025 at 5:43 PM, Krimson said:

So, how quickly did you want the player base to quit the game? If you want a vacant server with all of these fun things, Rebirth currently has a whopping 33 players online.

 

This.

 

I get nostalgic for some things from the Elder Days. I find myself soloing from 45-50 because I'm sick of teams where Incarnate Powers are flying around willy nilly in content that was never designed for them. I think it's crazy that Empathy or FF sometimes get derided as "useless" because "everyone will have capped defenses anyway."  I miss feeling like my controllers made a difference against Malta. I miss when Blasters (except for Assault Rifle) had to decide if the situation was dire enough to unleash a T9 nuke. 

 

But.

 

I am fully aware of how quickly players would drop the game like week old roadkill, if we went there. 

We would stop being able to raise the necessary donations on a regular basis. 

City of Heroes would die a 2nd death. Not because of an NCSoft snap, but because players would say the game was no longer worth playing. 

 

I'm also aware that I'm a raging hypocrit.

Every one of my alts gets a Panacea proc slotted at lvl 7, without exception.

They get a Blessing of the Zephyr knockback proction shortly after, once they can fit in a travel power. 

I rarely use "proc bomb" powers, but I am a set bonus FIEND. Even while I bemoan players scoffing at buff-centric support sets. 

 

Ultimately, it was like when I tried Project 1999 to go back to truly Old School EverQuest again. Nostalgic as f**k. Glorious to see. And I logged out 1 hour later, and never went back again. Because I'm 54 instead of 29, and because quoting a line from Netflix 2015 Daredevil, "Growing to love something is simply, slowly forgetting, what you dislike about it.".  When I actually went back to the P1999 EverQuest game... I knew I could not mentally face that grind again. I knew I would never choose to spend that many hours on a loot treadmill again. Never choose to sign up for a regular guild/supergroup situation where to make any meaningful advancement, I would have to tie my fortunes to regular teaming with others and start planning my life around particular game-time hours to make that happen. 

 

None of these changes are ever going to happen. Because the devs don't want to have to smile sadly and turn off the lights as they walk away from an empty server.

Edited Friday at 11:42 PM by MTeague

[biostem]

There's nothing stopping you from creating an "Old School" SG, where you try to play in a manner closer to how the game was at some earlier state, so why not try out this experiment to see what kind of interest there would be?

[DrRocket]

In my previous post, I sought to bring up or provide insights to what were the thoughts of the creators of the game.

 

At some point, the developers became aware of the huge unbalance, and sought "patches" or "band-aids" to deal with it, and that is why the IO system came about, was it a perfect solution, frankly it was not, but it did serve a purpose reasonably well. A support character today who has IOd well, is now reasonably survivable, and thus narrowed that gap. Are the IOs balanced, that is an opinion each us would have on that subject, I personally think thy favor melee classes for what melee normally needs they can get with the first set of 3 of a kind, while the ones support desperately need requires sets of 5 or 6 which goes hard during design phase.

 

Of course the IOs did help a bit with the survivability of support, but did not help melee with much increase in what they really wanted "DPS"

 

So the developers produced the Incarnate system, this is narrows the gap even more, it does not close it, but it does narrow it considerably. For example the greatest burden on support is the spam use of status effects, with the introduction of Destiny Clarion and Hybrid Melee the support now had a reasonably good, in game, survivability versus the abusive use of status effects. It is not enough, but they did made further strides by the introduction of Rune of Protection as an auxiliary pool beanie and lately added Sheer Willpower to close the gap even more.

 

The IOs did provide in Alpha and Hybrid a meaningful boost to DPS for melee to take advantage, and the other powers helps them with reduction of defense, enhanced accuracy, and what not which are of very high value to a melee class.

 

So in some ways, the game has a sense of balance, but itis very dependent on how the TFs/SF and inherent powers given to mobs are used, too many mobs have an un-resistable, auto-hit defense de-buff, which opens up the gap greatly and torpedoes the IO system balancing act. In general mobs with Auto-Hit abilities are particularly cruel to support types who suffers a disproportionate impact by this tactics which are sadly becoming the rule of thumb for increasing challenge...

 

Just sharing my observations on how the game has evolved...

 

You may or not agree with me, but the purpose was to share aa perspective

 

Regards

[shortguy on indom]

On 8/6/2025 at 1:03 PM, Lunar Ronin said:

and bring more value to all roles and functions in the game, instead of the current damage meta to the exclusion of all else.

• AN HONORABLE STATEMENT... TO ME IT'S ONE OF HAVING MORE FUN THAN BALANCE.
• FORUM RULE:  JUST HOW HARD YOU STRIKE A NERVE DICTATES HOW MANY PAGES OF CONTRARY RESPONSES ARE GIVEN.

[shortguy on indom]

On 8/8/2025 at 5:57 PM, GM_GooglyMoogly said:

 

Disagree with both statements.

• DISAGREE WITH THIS DISAGREEMENT IN THIS INSTANCE.

[Seed22]

On 8/8/2025 at 4:57 PM, GM_GooglyMoogly said:

 

Disagree with both statements.

I could bring up a literal instance of this happening across multiple threads but that'd derail this thread further.

[ScarySai]

On 8/8/2025 at 6:31 PM, MTeague said:

None of these changes are ever going to happen. Because the devs don't want to have to smile sadly and turn off the lights as they walk away from an empty server.

 

Ultimately, if HC has one major issue in dire need of resolving, it's the process in which power changes are done. This is the most important aspect of the entire game, and is also the most mishandled. Rad armor and psi armor were handled horribly, and - if we ignore how proccable it is, pyro control is very bad as a control set. 

 

Continued bad changes to legacy sets will be the thing that drives people away the most. Just look at Veracor.

Edited 12 hours ago by ScarySai

[MTeague]

3 hours ago, ScarySai said:

 

Ultimately, if HC has one major issue in dire need of resolving, it's the process in which power changes are done. This is the most important aspect of the entire game, and is also the most mishandled. Rad armor and psi armor were handled horribly, and - if we ignore how proccable it is, pyro control is very bad as a control set. 

 

Continued bad changes to legacy sets will be the thing that drives people away the most. Just look at Veracor.

I accept that that is your position. But I didn't think the recent big patch (Plant, Regen, Adaptive Recharge, etc) was done poorly. Nerfs occurred, but at the end of the day, sometimes nerfs are necessary, and I've been happy with how my characters perform in the new codebase. Your experiance, quite clearly, does not agree with my own. 

[Seed22]

3 hours ago, ScarySai said:

Continued bad changes to legacy sets will be the thing that drives people away the most. Just look at Veracor.

The sad part is changes are often done after ignoring bonified and vetted players’ feedback, yet random johnny two thumbs can get the devs’ attention and support in asinine situations like beanbag.

 

Its not great tbh

[Doc Spectre]

I actually think emphasis on game balance can potentially be bad for a game’s longevity.

 

As a veteran of CoH I find my interest is piqued more by the under appreciated power sets and archetypes for new alt characters.

[tidge]

I am of multiple minds when it comes to legacy set changes.

 

Over-performing powers need to be brought back to earth... For example: Seeds of Confusion was an outlier that curb-stomped similar higher-tier powers in other control sets and because it was so good, and available so early, no new control set would look half-as-good. I'm less sold on the change to Carrion Creepers... that change felt a little petty... minimally I think the Adaptive recharge overhauls should have been allowed to play out before that change was made. Other over-performing powers (such as the 3.2 base accuracy in Radiation) fall into the 'what where they thinking?' category that made such things  due for a re-visit.

 

On another hand: It seems pretty clear that there are some legacy sets where the devs just aren't interested and have almost zero intellectual investment in revisiting. Particularly legacy power pools that still have the ridiculous 4/4/14/14/14 splits at which levels powers can be taken (and which ones require 2 pre-requisite choices)... namely Medicine and Presence. I won't go into all my specific gripes about how those pools actually work for those of us who choose to invest in them, but I have many. I'm also not a fan of how the four toggles work for the Flight pool... but that set invites Group Fly discussions which I'm sure the devs would prefer to avoid. All I'll write here is that I don't think there is another pool that has four toggles, five with Afterburner, and certainly no other set that effectively requires all of them to be toggled on to get the most from. Why the Teleport pool got a rework but Flight did not is a mystery to me.

 

It feels to me like there are a couple of "easy wins" to be had in some of those pools... so when I look at the recent changes to Dark Armor: I think the recent changes were positive... but basically unnecessary for players willing to take advice and leverage some set bonuses and smart slotting of powers. I can see a LOT of effort went into those changes for what basically was a shrug emoji. Meanwhile... there are still Armor T9s that are objectively worse than using Inspirations let alone the use of Incarnate powers.

 

Another "easy win" IMO would be a re-imagining of the VEAT inherent (Conditioning)... which I feel has had limited value since the Fitness pool became inherent. The extra Regeneration and Recovery isn't nothing, but it is close. Just give the VEATS +MaxEnd please!