Applying the Penny Yin TF Template

[MsSmart]

It should be rather obvious that the most popular TF in Blue side is Penny Yin, mostly because it is 4 straight forward missions and you are done, no hunts no inter-zone travel (although going to the ship by third mission may feel like it), just play and go get it done.

 

So it occurs to me, why not have an optional TF choice at the mission giver to do the TF the regular way or have the Penny Yin way, this way if you are trying to level or feel more immersed on the story take the normal path, but if you want a short and quick beat them up for fun or just need the badge go the Penny Yin TF format way.

 

Its a choice at the mission giver, so no one is forced to one way or the other... Obviously the Penny YIn format would have reduced merit gain, for evident reasons, but its the price for a quicky :<)

 

[biostem]

2 minutes ago, MsSmart said:

do the TF the regular way or have the Penny Yin way

Aren't the rewards scaled, (or at least allegedly scaled), based upon the number of missions or such?  Not only would the rewards have to be adjusted, but all the TFs would have to get these "alternate versions".  I'm not against the idea, but maybe look at and adjust all the filler missions in the current ones instead?

[Rudra]

I can support reviewing and adjusting the longer TFs, but knocking them all down to 4 missions? You're going to lose a lot of story that way, not just filler. So, no, I don't support the OP.

[kelika2]

I would love it if citadel got those wide cave maps like Atta's cave with some sprinkled in Council rooms/assets and compressed overworld locations/mission count

maybe lorewise citadel can make weaker clones of himself to stealth explore one map while we do another map, cutting down total missions.  or even sending his sidekick to scout

 

numina can be changed a little bit.  instead of a city-wide hunt we can have a single circular room mission where "shadow shard reflection" type enemies stop numina from charging the crystal and this way we can have level 40 Hellion/skulls/etc without actually changing their villaingroups

 

synapes can really benefit from nipping off the last 3 skyway missions and merging them(objectives) into the steel canyon killalls.  in addition, smaller maps for the killalls. a finale in boomtown where he has tons of resources available makes more sense

 

but whatever happens stop making task forces skip/speedable or annoying to replay

the last mission in tarikos is hell for masterminds, the lava is a real killer on top of that sometimes that big flaming testicle does not want to get out of the lava

that last mission... wait they all fucking suck for masterminds

mantis has that annoying fucking ship that has a lot of z-axis that makes pet management a bitch and a half on top of all the fire and gas fear patches

eye of the leviathan has those whirlpools that cancels out masterminds

whats with those chain reaction crystals on the icegirls task forces that seem to always wipe out pets

[MTeague]

None of these are especially difficult, and you're talking about revamping every task force because they take entire minutes longer than you're happy with. Really guys?

Admittedly, I am in Grumpy Old Man mode today, but hard no on the idea.

[MsSmart]

Wow, I thought I said there was a choice involved, and also mentioned that merit awards would have to be adjusted accordingly...

 

But like Frank Sinatra once sang... There are folks that get their kicks from stumping an a dream...

[Rudra]

28 minutes ago, MsSmart said:

Wow, I thought I said there was a choice involved, and also mentioned that merit awards would have to be adjusted accordingly...

 

But like Frank Sinatra once sang... There are folks that get their kicks from stumping an a dream...

CoX is a MMORPG. That means we are playing a story and interacting with that story and each other. TFs and SFs in particular are major story devices, running players through the more epic parts of the game's story. Your 'choice' is an attempt to simply skip the story and just quick grab some badges. You don't have to care about the story to play CoX, but you are still playing a story. If you don't like the story? Then speed run your TFs. Most of them are quite easy to do so.

[EmperorSteele]

TFs were originally made slogs because the developers intended that players would do a few missions, log off, and resume the next day.

Lol for hindsight.

So, yeah, I wouldn't mind Synapse and Citadel getting a few of the superfluous missions snipped. Especially the ones that are essentially the same map two or three times in a row.

[Rudra]

14 minutes ago, EmperorSteele said:

TFs were originally made slogs because the developers intended that players would do a few missions, log off, and resume the next day.

Lol for hindsight.

So, yeah, I wouldn't mind Synapse and Citadel getting a few of the superfluous missions snipped. Especially the ones that are essentially the same map two or three times in a row.

There is a distinct difference between what you are saying and what the OP is asking for. You are asking for the filler missions to be removed and I doubt anyone will oppose that. As my first response on this thread shows, I sure won't. What the OP is asking for is to trim all TFs down to just 4 missions regardless of what story is going on the TF/SF so (s)he/they can just grab the badges with as little effort as (s)he/they thinks they can get away with asking for. And to me, the presented choice between the story (still with all the extra filler the original devs padded the TF out with) and the no-story version the OP is basically asking for is just a poor smoke screen to be able to grab all the badges in the game with as little effort as (s)he/they can swindle the current devs into.

[srmalloy]

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

a poor smoke screen to be able to grab all the badges in the game with as little effort as (s)he/they can swindle the current devs into.

Perhaps the OP should go over to the Account wide accolade badges thread and post their support for that thread, since only having to run each TF once and then automatically getting the badges awarded on each alt on the account would address their gripe about the TFs taking too long. Take the Synapse TF; people see it as just a string of defeat-all missions against the Clockwork. The problem is, there is actual story that accompanies Synapse handing out each mission, but a) only the team leader sees Synapse's dialog, and b) even they generally just spacebar/click through to get to the mission. I wonder if there would be more engagement in the TF storyline if the dialog with the TF giver was echoed to all of the members of the team -- they wouldn't get any actual interaction, but they'd 'hear' the TF giver explaining why they're being sent out on the next mission.

[MsSmart]

The problem with Rudra and other posters is one of lack of compromise or understanding that there are more opinions, interpretations, and play styles and goals than their own. Initially, thank fully because of Rudra, I became aware of this shortfall in myself. That is why, when I post, I express my opinion and have learned to try express my wishes to be optional, exactly because folks have different views and objectives and the game could be evolved to allow for a variety of different thinking, being more open minded. I also, when I comment on another poster's suggestion, I try to be mindful they come from a different perspective and are entitled to be treated with respect and not be the subject of ridicule and condescendence.

 

Just something to think about, for the future

[MsSmart]

49 minutes ago, srmalloy said:

Perhaps the OP should go over to the Account wide accolade badges thread and post their support for that thread, since only having to run each TF once and then automatically getting the badges awarded on each alt on the account would address their gripe about the TFs taking too long. Take the Synapse TF; people see it as just a string of defeat-all missions against the Clockwork. The problem is, there is actual story that accompanies Synapse handing out each mission, but a) only the team leader sees Synapse's dialog, and b) even they generally just spacebar/click through to get to the mission. I wonder if there would be more engagement in the TF storyline if the dialog with the TF giver was echoed to all of the members of the team -- they wouldn't get any actual interaction, but they'd 'hear' the TF giver explaining why they're being sent out on the next mission.

I appreciate, you stop placing words in my mouth, don't be rude. In fact, why not look at the thread you so smugly suggested, and read what I actually posted, but yeah, that would be a form of courtesy, would it not?

 

[Lunar Ronin]

Here's the thing with gamers in general.  They talk about "choice."  If there's a quick, easy road, and then a long road, gamers will 99.9% of the time pick the quick, easy road, but say that the long road is there for others who want to use it.  But then they'll start trying to force everyone to use the quick and easy road "because it respects my time" or some other such nonsense, and soon, if you want to play with others, there's no choice at all.

 

No thank you.

[Ukase]

I come in game to play a character, and try to make it easy to play. Sometimes, that involves making it withstand a lot of punishment, and sometimes it's making it dish out a lot of damage. Story? I don't come here for that. I might create my own story while playing. But read the content? Once I've done it once, I don't read it again usually. 

But I am painfully aware this is my view. Others may not share my perspective. I get a much bigger kick out of seeing a character jump in the air, and come down with a large sword and leave the npc essentially lifeless than reading the story. You folks can say "arrested" all you want. I killed that freak! Twice! 

That said, while I have no issue getting behind some revisions of the longer TFs, I don't think we need to model everything after Yin. 
Sometimes, I do Sister Psyche through Ouro because it offers more merits, and certainly more opportunity for XP, if I'm interested in getting that next power sooner than later. 





 

[biostem]

3 hours ago, Lunar Ronin said:

"because it respects my time"

The moment you join someone else's team, it is indeed no longer just about your enjoyment in isolation, and respecting other's time is not nonsense.  If you were an OG  player some 20-odd years ago, chances are your responsibilities were far fewer, and so spending multiple hours on a TF was no big deal, but nowadays, most folks will either figure out ways to speed them or just ignore them entirely.  You talk about others being "forced" to take the shorter path, but that only applies when you are teaming with others and not leading the team yourself, in which case, things come full circle back to it not being just about you and your individual wants anymore...

[Shin Magmus]

   I post Yin TFs and run them more often than anything else because people will join.  This means my team will fill faster, and I can play the game (y'know, in a non-solo context).  I'd say the short length, mid level requirement, and reasonably high mob density are the reasons why the TF is popular.  I can't *make* someone want to join an obscure Redside SF, so Yin gets ran instead because of sociological factors.  Even if you streamlined other TFs, it wouldn't matter until you convinced people to want to join them (which is easier said than done).

[Lunar Ronin]

4 hours ago, biostem said:

The moment you join someone else's team, it is indeed no longer just about your enjoyment in isolation, and respecting other's time is not nonsense.  If you were an OG  player some 20-odd years ago, chances are your responsibilities were far fewer, and so spending multiple hours on a TF was no big deal, but nowadays, most folks will either figure out ways to speed them or just ignore them entirely.  You talk about others being "forced" to take the shorter path, but that only applies when you are teaming with others and not leading the team yourself, in which case, things come full circle back to it not being just about you and your individual wants anymore...

 

I was an OG player from 20 years ago.  Nope, responsibilities were the same.  I was in my late 20s when CoH started, and I had just started a new job.  I still work today.

 

Penelope Yin is one of my least favorite TFs because of how short it is.  It's over before I know it, and I feel like I wasted my time and accomplished nothing as a result.  Now, I don't want a Dr. Q TF either, but something in between is the sweet spot for me.

 

It does not only apply to when I'm joining a team and not when I'm leading.  I never used the base macro exploit when that was a thing, because I immediately recognized it for what it was: an exploit.  Yet, within months, everyone and their mother used it, and started to assume that everyone else did as well.  Nope.  I knew about the base macro exploit and how to use it, but I don't knowingly use exploits.  So even if I led a team and flew around to missions, others on the team all used the exploit to zip right to missions.  Some would "helpfully" tell me how to use said exploit, thinking that I must not know about it.  By the time I got to missions, people already had already partially cleared the mission sometimes because the rest used the base macro exploit.  It got so bad that I just stopped PUGing until the base macro exploit was finally fixed.  Again, lack of choice because most gamers will always go for the easy and shortest path.

[Ukase]

2 hours ago, Lunar Ronin said:

I never used the base macro exploit when that was a thing, because I immediately recognized it for what it was: an exploit.

Your loss. 
I loved it. I've adapted to the way things are, but I'd love to have it back. 

[ShardWarrior]

I would not at all mind if Synapse and Citadel had one or two defeat all missions removed.  I think their respective stories would not suffer greatly if that were to happen.  With that said, not every TF/SF needs to be a quick 4 mission and done template.  

 

48 minutes ago, Ukase said:

I loved it. I've adapted to the way things are, but I'd love to have it back. 

 

It is still there, just in a different form.  The advent of the various P2W and Day Job temps that allow for instant/near instant door to door missions were an acceptable replacement. 

[Uun]

Quite a few of the newer TFs/SFs/trials follow the shorter "Penny Yin" format: Admiral Sutter, Mortimer Kal, Katie Hannon, ITF, Apex, Tin Mage, Drowning in Blood, Market Crash.

[biostem]

4 hours ago, Lunar Ronin said:

It does not only apply to when I'm joining a team and not when I'm leading.

I'm not sure what exploit you are referring to, but I never used any such thing AFAIK.  You still seem to be making this about you - I see you haven't acknowledged any consideration for the time of your teammates.  If you join a "speed TF", and decide to impede things, then that's on you, no different than joining a "KM TF" and deciding to speed it on your own.  I also didn't see you mention how you were willing to step up and lead teams "the correct way", (or at least your interpretation of that).  For my part, I saw how others were running teams/TFs/farms, made mental notes, and have taken to running that content how I want to, being very clear about what I expect and what others should expect from me.  You think you've identified a problem, so take steps to remedy it!

Edited 5 hours ago by biostem

[Rudra]

1 hour ago, biostem said:

I'm not sure what exploit you are referring to, but I never used any such thing AFAIK.  You still seem to be making this about you - I see you haven't acknowledged any consideration for the time of your teammates.  If you join a "speed TF", and decide to impede things, then that's on you, no different than joining a "KM TF" and deciding to speed it on your own.  I also didn't see you mention how you were willing to step up and lead teams "the correct way", (or at least your interpretation of that).  For my part, I saw how others were running teams/TFs/farms, made mental notes, and have taken to running that content how I want to, being very clear about what I expect and what others should expect from me.  You think you've identified a problem, so take steps to remedy it!

The exploit was not considered an exploit by a great many players, even after the devs announced they had never intended for players to be able to use the SG base access code from anywhere because it was meant as a dev device. And even after the devs announced that the base access code was never meant for players and they were going to take it away from players, I still saw comments almost every team I tried that members of the team should use it. And if you didn't get to the missions as fast as them? Too bad, so sad, they would clear the mission while anyone else was still getting there. Even if they were told to stop doing that. (And oh good lord how much they screamed and called out the team leader as a terrible leader on Broadcast if they got kicked from the team for doing so after being told to stop.)

[lemming]

On the off topic: I definitely used it, but understood it would go away when they got around to it.  I was surprised they replaced it with a very equitable replacement scheme and don't miss the exploited version.

 

Lunar is correct, if a quick version is available, a lot of people will mainly just do the quick version and will pick and choose the ones they don't mind.

I'd love to have Synapse & Citadel trimmed of their redundant missions.  (And for Citadel to stop the ping pong between Talos & IP)

 

For now, the quick version of the core TFs is just grabbing the Invader badge.  

[srmalloy]

1 hour ago, lemming said:

(And for Citadel to stop the ping pong between Talos & IP)

You would think that, as a machine, he would be able to optimize the TF, and have you do all the missions in IP, then all the missions in Talos. Having the Council bases spread between the two zones is not improbable, but the current pattern is... inefficient.

[Gerswin]

I could get on board with a revamped synapse and citadel.  Posi was already revamped, and Numina and Manti are pretty short already.  

 

Aside from the ones mentioned, I am not sure if anything outside of the Shadow Shard (which is a different animal entirely) really needs a speedier alternate.

 

Synapse in particular is the critical need, as the 15-20 level range is quite fun but lacking in tf options.