How inf much is “just enough” to give?

[BlackSpectre]

The holidays are fast approaching and benevolent heroes everywhere will be offering gifts and charity to fellow players. 
 

Imagine a new player. They’re struggling to scrape together the inf to purchase SOs, salvage and recipes and rising to the challenge. They constantly complain that they don’t have enough to purchase what they want, but they’re also motivated to acquire it. When they finally get their item they are elated. Super happy and in turn proud of their accomplishment. Now imagine a kind and well meaning player suddenly dumps 1 Billion inf on them as a gift… obviously it would abolish the struggle and the joy that comes from that struggle. Would we really want to do that? Or would a small gift be better? And if so, how much would be enough?

Back on live I calculated that it would cost about 17.5 million inf to slot DOs and SOs from level 1-50. Homecoming’s enhancement costs are probably lower, but I haven’t done the calculations so I don’t really know. Would 10 mil inf be too much? Would there be a better amount? 

 

[Six-Six]

10 million is usually enough to get you by until 35-40, if you use it wisely.

That equates to an ACC SO for each attack, END for most, RECH for some. 3 END MODs on Stamina, and the upgrades for each level. They can "earn" the rest with Merits, Crafting and converting and playing the market or just by selling off boosters, converters, etc.

If the recipient wants IO sets early on, then 50m would be more like it. while 100-150 can slot a full build sans ATOs, Winters, PVPs and Purples.

I used to give out a PVP + 10m to as much as 100m in one go. I used to also bump into @Yomo Kimyata giving away 10 -50m in Mercy like it's a strip club.

[Maelwys]

1 hour ago, Six-Six said:

10 million is usually enough to get you by until 35-40, if you use it wisely.

 

10m plus a Panacea proc (typically attuned so as they get exposed to the idea of attuned Set IOs) is fair IMO. That's enough that they'll not have to worry about SOs until they're high enough level to have built up a merit stash.

 

If you throw another zero on, you tend to either get more "that's far too much" protests and/or they'll pester you again once they've blown it all on winter packs and Pocket D lapdances. Gifting them more IOs instead (especially globals/Procs like LotGs and Miracles) feels like it has a higher chance of producing a more engaged newbie, even if it takes a bit more time.

 

Edited yesterday at 08:00 AM by Maelwys

[Six-Six]

31 minutes ago, Maelwys said:

Pocket D lapdances

Stay away from Brenda. She'll say that a small penis is non-issue with her, but I'd still prefer she didn't have one.

[UltraAlt]

13 hours ago, BlackSpectre said:

Now imagine a kind and well meaning player suddenly dumps 1 Billion inf on them as a gift… obviously it would abolish the struggle and the joy that comes from that struggle. Would we really want to do that?

 

A billion seems way too much to me.

 

13 hours ago, BlackSpectre said:

Or would a small gift be better? And if so, how much would be enough?

 

Personally, a fellow city resident gave me 30 million not long after coming back to the game.

 

I'm not as rich as Yomo (I'm assuming) but I do well on the market. (I did well on the market before the Sunset. The market was getting out-of-whack due to gold farmers [I assume] that it became one of the several reasons that I cut my subscription almost exactly a year before the Sunset. It wasn't that I was no longer able to "work" the market, but the opposite. Other players had no idea how much infl they were throwing around apparently.).

 

30 mill was a massive input of capital to gear-up my ... well ... yeah .. Ebil marketing Empire.

 

I have no reason not to give back to the community because I have more than enough Infl ...

 

 

... and it is easy enough for me to get ...

 

 

... now that the more-or-less assembly-line system is setup.

 

30 mil was more than enough.

 

Players seem happy when I send/trade them 10 million, an enhancement, halloween costume parts, or even a card pack.

 

13 hours ago, BlackSpectre said:

Back on live I calculated that it would cost about 17.5 million inf to slot DOs and SOs from level 1-50. Homecoming’s enhancement costs are probably lower, but I haven’t done the calculations so I don’t really know. Would 10 mil inf be too much? Would there be a better amount? 

 

I'm assuming you can make 7.5 million or more by the time you reach level 50.

One thing we should take into account is that many players seem to be bypassing leveling and going directly to the end game.

 

I tend to scout out those lower level players that are actually playing the game to pass some wealth onto or those seeking some help in the /help channel.

The problem with responding to someone in the /help channel is how many other players may be responding as well, so I keep that in mind.

 

I like to keep the mask on so I won't go into more detailing in regard to my Robbing Hood'ing in-game.

 

 

Edited 21 hours ago by UltraAlt

[mistagoat]

As a new lowbie I was truly ecstatic when a kind stranger gave me 5 mill. Yeah it didn't last me to 50 but it made the ride to the 30s soooo much nicer! I think 5-10 is a great amount to gift someone.

[Yomo Kimyata]

9 hours ago, BlackSpectre said:

The holidays are fast approaching and benevolent heroes everywhere will be offering gifts and charity to fellow players. 
 

Imagine a new player. They’re struggling to scrape together the inf to purchase SOs, salvage and recipes and rising to the challenge. They constantly complain that they don’t have enough to purchase what they want, but they’re also motivated to acquire it. When they finally get their item they are elated. Super happy and in turn proud of their accomplishment. Now imagine a kind and well meaning player suddenly dumps 1 Billion inf on them as a gift… obviously it would abolish the struggle and the joy that comes from that struggle. Would we really want to do that? Or would a small gift be better? And if so, how much would be enough?

Back on live I calculated that it would cost about 17.5 million inf to slot DOs and SOs from level 1-50. Homecoming’s enhancement costs are probably lower, but I haven’t done the calculations so I don’t really know. Would 10 mil inf be too much? Would there be a better amount? 

 

 

I hear you.  Maybe this dated thread will help give you more data:

 

 

[Six-Six]

@Yomo Kimyata Brenda's been asking about you.

[ShardWarrior]

How much?  I will let Sir Patrick answer.

 

 

[Without_Pause]

SOs in this economy? Level 25 Common IOs can do a build at Level 50 for like 2-3 mill last I estimated. Even if they want Level 35s in the end, it is on the lower side to IO out. I say enough for Level 15s, 25, 35s. I'm just going to assume that can be done for under 10 mil. More so if you are willing get them via the market with lower bids. One can run around perfectly fine with Commons until a long term stash can be created and then those Commons can be migrated to the next character. I bet a support build could be done insanely cheaply even doing a build with Uncommons.

[Uun]

When I roll new characters, I seed them with 10 million inf. Between that and crafting/converting/selling drops, I'm generally good to lvl 50. This allows me to buy SOs through lvl 22 and IOs thereafter (I start slotting sets after lvl 27). 

[Troo]

10 hours ago, BlackSpectre said:

Imagine a new player. They’re struggling to scrape together the inf to purchase SOs

 

Target audience matters.

If, as in the example above, we are targeting new players. 2M is a boon and a nice jump start to the early game. 

 

If we are targeting existing players or those who have skipped the game to get to 50.. anything below a superior winter IO's value may not be appreciated. A generous gift could be a full set of something relevant to the character.

[tidge]

I'm thinking 30MInf should be plenty:

1. If a new player spends all of that and ends up with no more Inf... then there are some lessons for them to be learned.
2. My new characters start with 60 MInf, but usually have just under 30 leftover after kitting out with the START vendor.

The more obvious lessons include low bids on enhancements that matter/don't expire (like level 25 or 30 IOs) and how to turn your drops into Inf. Another lesson is probably: there isn't that much return at low levels for slotting enhancements.

 

Every once in a while I have a new character get enhancements "from scratch", just for lulz... but it is trivial for me to equip new characters from the SG base/merit hoard. I usually only buy stuff from the AH when there are oddball pieces I want. 

[Skyhawke]

[UltraAlt]

22 minutes ago, tidge said:

Another lesson is probably: there isn't that much return at low levels for slotting enhancements.

 

I have to disagree with this. 

I checked the lowest level I have at this point (I think). A level 10.

 

An SO (single origin enhancement) acc is 38.3 percent. I put two my powers (76.6 percent). An example Pulverize goes from 1.05x accuracy to 1.85x accuracy.

 

It doesn't show you how much the enhancements boost everything, but having end mods slotted makes a big difference at the lower levels. Base Stamina unslotted at level 10 is +25.00% end recharge. Two SO's (again 38.3x2 = 76.6 percent) yield +44.00%

Seems like a valuable return to me. I try to slot SO's at level 5.

 

Non-Set IO's don't surpass SO's until 35 or 40. I guess if you want to pay for the once (since you never outlevel them) and not again you can get a good deal on the lower level ones as people are trying to turn them fast as they were just making them to get crafting badges (cheaper to buy the Portable Workstation than to craft everything you need to craft to get it [especially since no one is willing to pay what it cost to craft them if you don't have the portable workstation when you are crafting them] - however, there are some cool badge names for crafting that you can display on your character). But even though they don't expire if you slot a level 10 non-set invention enhancement, it doesn't grow with your character either so it has the same percentage bonus it had when you slotted it regardless of how many times you leveled up after slotting it. Which at low levels means slotting a non-set IO that has a percentage far below (in my opinion) that of a SO that even gets father below the benefit of an SO as the character levels up.

 

I can't say that I have checked if non-set IOs are better than TO's (training enhances) or DO's (dual origin enhances).

 

I agree that some players do go the route of slotting low-level non-set IOs as a cheap work-around to have "something" slotted. No arguing with that part of it.

 

Part of the reward return here is that using x? XP doesn't only remove part or all of your infl gain, it also makes you go through content up to x2 as fast so that means fewer drops.

 

I think if you have the influence for it, SO's are worth it a lower levels if you want to fight on higher difficulty settings.

But maybe the circles around to the point that you may not need slotting of more than you can afford if you are running missions on flat (difficulty) as that could be just as challenging or more so that having SO's and increasing the difficulty.

(I think part of my problem is feeling that I shouldn't be fighting whites and blues ... let alone greens and greys).

[UltraAlt]

3 minutes ago, Skyhawke said:

 

[tidge]

20 minutes ago, UltraAlt said:

I have to disagree with this. 

 

I freely admit: my own experiences have hopelessly biased my perceptions such that I can't predict what a really new player would do, with or without an infusion of Inf.

 

Run the DfB and the character gets bonuses. at level 1, 1 hour of bonuses are 1 Kinf (3 different ones for 8 hours max). I've slow-rolled with-and-without these, or enhancements (other than what drops), etc. It all rolls together to me. There are only a few pieces I *want* at level 10 (global defense, KB protection, Panacea) otherwise I'm happy just slotting whatever until 17.

[Excraft]

19 hours ago, BlackSpectre said:

Imagine a new player. They’re struggling to scrape together the inf to purchase SOs, salvage and recipes and rising to the challenge. They constantly complain that they don’t have enough to purchase what they want, but they’re also motivated to acquire it.

 

Rather than just handing them free inf, why not spend some time with those supposed new players and teach them the ropes?  There are a lot of ways to earn quick inf in the game that doesn't require a huge amount of grinding.  

[High_Beam]

16 hours ago, Six-Six said:

Stay away from Brenda. She'll say that a small penis is non-issue with her, but I'd still prefer she didn't have one.

Westpac!

 

Also I think its absolutely fab that someone is asking what a reasonable amount to give is.  Thumbs up to you!

Edited 15 hours ago by High_Beam
Commentary, not just one liners!

[biostem]

21 hours ago, BlackSpectre said:

Imagine a new player. They’re struggling to scrape together the inf to purchase SOs, salvage and recipes and rising to the challenge. They constantly complain that they don’t have enough to purchase what they want, but they’re also motivated to acquire it. When they finally get their item they are elated. Super happy and in turn proud of their accomplishment. Now imagine a kind and well meaning player suddenly dumps 1 Billion inf on them as a gift… obviously it would abolish the struggle and the joy that comes from that struggle. Would we really want to do that? Or would a small gift be better? And if so, how much would be enough?

3 million is enough to get some generic 25 IOs into your key powers, and then some... When it comes to "gifting" inf to people, I'd say even just 1 million is more than generous....

[DoctorDitko]

I think a Panacea proc is a great gift for new folks. 

Enough inf to buy the Team Transporter is admirably generous.

 

Advising them to park at an SG portal is good, too, to get the Monitor Duty and Rapid Response day job powers. And tell them to join a Supergroup, or invite them to yours.

 

One thing I seldom see is Salvage gifts. A handful of Unslotters is very nice for folks who are just starting out. 

 

Also, generous players are a chief reason this game has such a good community reputation. Thanks, folks!

[biostem]

3 minutes ago, DoctorDitko said:

I think a Panacea proc is a great gift for new folks. 

My only concern there is that new players may not know just how useful it is or where best to place it.  Heck, I shudder the thought of them discarding it by accident...

[DoctorDitko]

Well, tell 'em where to stick it!

 

And clue them in that this game doesn't start being fun when you hit 50. (I know some players think that's where the fun stops!)

 

Also, tell them to email any wakies that drop to themselves. At low levels, they can better use that insp slot for something that might avoid them needing wakies!

 

"And stop tracking mud all over my nice clean floor!"

-Lt. Bradshaw

 

 

Edited 13 hours ago by DoctorDitko
parenthetical mismatch

[Jacke]

When starting a Toon, I normally give it 40M Influence and spend around 34M of it on S.T.A.R.T. picks, leaving the 6M for the initial cost from Levelling the Toon to at least L6.

[Without_Pause]

When to slot a character for me depends on how much I am going to solo the character. I've started slotting at 7. I've slotted as late in my 20s as I could tolerate.