page 3 [FOCUSED FEEDBACK] Super Strength Adjustments

[ScarySai]

29 minutes ago, Maelwys said:

s is too a fallacy, because follow up grants chonky +ToHit just like Rage does; therefore if +ToHit was the sole factor in winning the scenario (as was originally being claimed) both their powersets would be taking the top spots on the leaderboard. But it isn't; and they're not.

 

If you are ignorant to how the game works, sure.

 

30 minutes ago, Maelwys said:

IMO people are mad because they hate Rage's crash; and many feel that if the devs are going to spend time poking at it then they might as well make the crash go away entirely instead of attempting to make that crash less impactful to some at the expense of others (and/or doing the powers equivalent of drawing a mustache on it...) 🥸

 

The crash is already punitive despite ss being a generally mid-tier at best clear performer and was made worse, this is very simple. It's not justified and the devs are making it a way bigger deal than it should be.

[flakoff]

At this point the devs may as well just remove rage and and add a bit more damage boost from the new toggle.  At least we don't have to do loads of respecs then.

 

[Steampunkette]

5 hours ago, Sovera said:

 

I was precisely thinking how Bio would/will be slammed by this. In the end game most things that do energy damage do -def (most robots even if not all). Bio has mediocre E/N defenses (requires all tricks to softcap so not a big buffer) and piss poor E/N resistances. 

Very accurate... but also because they're not softcapped the defense and resistance debuffs aren't increasing their damage taken by nearly as huge a margin...

 

And also it's a lot more damage.

 

Like it won't be 700% more damage than they're already getting hit with, but the extra damage they will take is going to be impactful.

 

Of course it's also ALREADY that way, so it's not a huge deal.

[OverkillEngine]

Or just nix the Rage crash entirely, but also adjust the base recharge to make it a high duration/high recharge version of Buildup (translation: at the current duration it would end up with a much higher recharge than now due to the 120 sec duration - the alternative is lowering the buff magnitude to get a better uptime ratio), and also normalize/buff the base damage of rest of the set so that it isn't completely asstacular when Rage is down to the point that pool attacks are better...because that means then that the pool attacks are better when Rage is up too, which is silly design that never should have been allowed to persist even a fraction of the time that it has during Live, much less until now.

Edit: some wiseguy is going to interpret that as Rage should only work on SS attacks, though what that means is it invalidates pool attacks as a viable build option, which is ALSO stupid/bad design. Don't even go there.

Edited Friday at 07:21 PM by OverkillEngine

[ExeErdna]

33 minutes ago, Troo said:

Maybe it's the asinine use of the term "equitable" in a game where balance is as elusive as finding a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow.

 

 

Rage change effects lower level characters disproportionately compared to higher level characters which then also have more tools to alleviate a crash.

 

Then we have Unleashed Might which as a toggle out performs a click with a crash. That just shouldn't happen.

 

Lagging powers in Super Strength get a boost ONLY if players take Unleashed Might. 

 

What a hot mess of classic homecoming hits: "forced respecs", "play our way", "spreadsheet design > fun", "for what, to stay mediocre?"

 

 

six seven

 

 

 

That's why I said before with my own testing instead of nerfing Rage they gotta make Rage stronger if there's gonna be a crash. 80% up isn't enough it needs to be like 200% The set already lacks AOE, so it isn't doing anything like the Murderballs. Then, late-game Melee is still playing catch-up when it comes to range unless it's an AV or the rare thing that's sturdy. Even then SS is only on Tankers and Brutes so the 200% isn't gonna be that much on either. 

[ExeErdna]

From how I build and thinking like somebody who's fresh to the game so they don't have money, mats, etc. Unleashed Might is amazing for that player you don't need to be slotted with that Gaussian to be keeping up with mid-game content. It's consistent and safe for a newer character. Rage, especially as it is now is a risky choice, with risky choices one should expect a bit more reward. The standard damage amount from Rage isn't enough since it's gonna be an overall ST setup so the damage can be pulled up 200% over 80% since that 20% on a crash without proper support is gonna put them at risk. Since when I'm playing I barely see that many supports unless it's me or somebody running a Kin

[PyroBeetle]

56 minutes ago, Troo said:

Rage change effects lower level characters disproportionately compared to higher level characters which then also have more tools to alleviate a crash.

 

Then we have Unleashed Might which as a toggle out performs a click with a crash. That just shouldn't happen.

 

Lagging powers in Super Strength get a boost ONLY if players take Unleashed Might. 

Similar to the Obscure Sustenance vs Dark Regeneration debate, nothing is stopping a lower level player from taking UM to level with then changing to a Rage driven proc bombed monster when they have the influence and the tools to build one successfully.

 

Hell seeing as they can both be enjoyable you actually can have both at the same time and switch between them with minimal effort on the same character. Can also have a third build beside those two.

 

Please don't present problems where the solution is already in place.

[drbuzzard]

Heh, just like last time, the caterwauling about rage has killed any improvement. Nice work folks. 

 

I was looking forward to Unleashed Might. I guess I will remain looking forward. Way, way forward. 

 

Check the patch notes. 

Edited Friday at 08:23 PM by drbuzzard

[Steampunkette]

Yyyyyyup. I wanted Unleashed Might so bad I made SS characters for it, specifically.

 

Thanks for ruining things, folks.

[SomeGuy]

8 minutes ago, Steampunkette said:

Yyyyyyup. I wanted Unleashed Might so bad I made SS characters for it, specifically.

 

Thanks for ruining things, folks.

 

 

I'm honestly wondering why Rage is being debated so heavily with it's changes cause UM is RIGHT THERE. I've got some older data (few months ago?) with averages with my SS/FA brute on Brainstorm that was x2 stacking Rage. I'll do averages with that same character using UM. I do know not having a crash has made me like the set a lot more.

Edited Friday at 08:34 PM by SomeGuy

[Signalrunner]

9 minutes ago, drbuzzard said:

Heh, just like last time, the caterwauling about rage has killed any improvement. Nice work folks. 

 

I was looking forward to Unleashed Might. I guess I will remain looking forward. Way, way forward. 

 

Check the patch notes. 

 

One would think the devs would just:

A) Push ahead with their vision

B) Concede to some feedback and reach a middle ground in changes

 

But instead they opt for a cycle of:

C) Using their position of power to force everyone here to roleplay a parent and children scenario of blame where some form of "Look what you did! Now we get no presents!!" is screeched amongst the children.

[Biff Pow]

Christmas is cancelled

[Steampunkette]

6 minutes ago, Signalrunner said:

 

One would think the devs would just:

A) Push ahead with their vision

B) Concede to some feedback and reach a middle ground in changes

 

But instead they opt for a cycle of:

C) Using their position of power to force everyone here to roleplay a parent and children scenario of blame where some form of "Look what you did! Now we get no presents!!" is screeched amongst the children.

These changes WERE the Middle Ground.

 

This is the second time the HC Devs have tried to make serious improvements to Super Strength and the second time a small, but loud, group of people have screamed and moaned about any perceived negative aspect to the set.

 

Now it'll be another 3-5 months before we get to see just how much further along towards one side of the "Middle Ground" before they throw it back at the HC Dev team AGAIN and demand it be better.

 

 

[Signalrunner]

1 minute ago, Steampunkette said:

These changes WERE the Middle Ground.

 

This is the second time the HC Devs have tried to make serious improvements to Super Strength and the second time a small, but loud, group of people have screamed and moaned about any perceived negative aspect to the set.

 

Now it'll be another 3-5 months before we get to see just how much further along towards one side of the "Middle Ground" before they throw it back at the HC Dev team AGAIN and demand it be better.

 

 

 

I mean, this one is pretty divisive. You have folks that were batting for Aim instead of Beanbag, on the Rage side of the fence here.

The blame still falls on the devs for setting their conditionals for rollback.

[Riverdusk]

7 hours ago, PyroBeetle said:

 that the dev team will decide to scrap all of the changes and then because there are a couple of active posters who scream its not fair, that the rest of us will then not get to enjoy what looked to be well thought out and considered changes, when things are evaluated mathematically.

 

 

 

You called it.  To be fair the devs do exactly that a lot, so easy prediction. 😁  At least they've said they'll come back to this one, unlike the Tier 9 armor reversions. 

[Player-1]

Hello everyone,

 

Pulling this version of Super Strength back was my call as the feedback highlighted some deeper design issues with the kit and its interactions with non-set powers.

 

I want to take a bit more time to really highlight the feeling of being Super Strong and shore up the shortcomings of the existing powers in a way that is not frustrating to play. 

 

This will be coming back on the next cycle, which should be here much sooner thanks to taking it off of the current patch.

 

[Troo]

Thanks @Player-1. It's worth getting right.

 

"take a bit more time to really highlight the feeling of being Super Strong" 

 

I think if we had to name what we liked, it's probably fairly close.

Just details and adjustments without inadvertently effecting some users in an overly adverse manner. 

 

Edited Saturday at 02:48 AM by Troo

[Shin Magmus]

Mr. President, another complete rollback has hit the nothingburger patch!

[Lazarillo]

So once again, git gud proc bombers whining that Rage isn't OP enough has resulted in buffs getting canceled.  Good job, guys.  Excellent work, as always.  See you in three more years for the "next cycle" when y'all can ruin it again.  Glad I was at least smart enough to know y'all would ruin it and not trust in this happening to actually make a new character before it went live, at least, I guess.

Edited Friday at 09:34 PM by Lazarillo

[aethereal]

I am also bummed, was planning to try out an Unleashed Might Brute when the patch dropped.

 

I really want to know how many people who vociferously argued against the Rage change actually tested it.

[Super Atom]

see you guys in 6 years  

[Biff Pow]

32 minutes ago, Player-1 said:

I want to take a bit more time to really highlight the feeling of being Super Strong and shore up the shortcomings of the existing powers in a way that is not frustrating to play. 

 

I liked Unleashed Might. I'm curious what you thought the problem was.

[Bill Z Bubba]

41 minutes ago, Player-1 said:

Hello everyone,

 

Pulling this version of Super Strength back was my call as the feedback highlighted some deeper design issues with the kit and its interactions with non-set powers.

 

I want to take a bit more time to really highlight the feeling of being Super Strong and shore up the shortcomings of the existing powers in a way that is not frustrating to play. 

 

This will be coming back on the next cycle, which should be here much sooner thanks to taking it off of the current patch.

 

 

Boo. You guys had it right.

[BZRKR]

I liked Unleashed Might the altered Hand Clap in this most recent iteration, but I Really Liked the changes to Hurl. Making it crash through targets is visceral and good.

 

I am very interested to see what you guys come up with in the new year.

[SomeGuy]

1 hour ago, Player-1 said:

 

 

Pulling this version of Super Strength back was my call as the feedback highlighted some deeper design issues with the kit and its interactions with non-set powers.

 

 

 

 

Welp. Wasted time testing. 

 

SS/ELA Brute

 

w/ Rage: 4:17 (average over 5 runs without Hybrid or Lore)

 

w/ UM: 4:05 (average 2 runs without Hybrid or Lore. Saw this post and stopped.)

 

KO - HM - Gloom- Cross Punch

 

Sigh. Oh well.

 

I really liked UM too. Works with a Brute WAY better then Rage ever did. That -10k DMG crash was....gahh. Not to mention the end and def crash with it. 

 

*Don't mess with Rage. Seems to trigger people, Just add the UM option?

 

I'm definitely of the opinion ya'll were on the right path. 

 

This was the build with UM (replace Rage in this build with UM).

 

https://api.midsreborn.com/legacy/download?uc=1641&c=721&a=1442&f=HEX&dc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

 

 

Edited Friday at 10:30 PM by SomeGuy