page 3 [FOCUSED FEEDBACK] Super Reflexes Adjustments

[FupDup]

As I said on the first page, the click having more oomph than the toggle is logical, but the issue is that the toggle barely does anything at all. Ironically, the melee ATs who just got it don’t have the Sentinel recovery power to help manage the endurance cost anyways. It’s just a dead pick. 

[Psi-bolt]

16 minutes ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

On existing sentinels: I intentionally looked into preserving builds as much as possible and ran with the assumption that people picking master brawler did so more for the toggle-based mez prot than the absorb. I can see how that can result in a more disruptive change due to enhancements. If you feel these existing sentinels should instead have their master brawler converted to the click Practiced Brawler so their build faces less disruption, that can be done. With the caveat though, that these builds will now rely on the click for mez protection.

 

If enough players consider either too disruptive, there is always the possibility of rolling back the changes be it for further consideration or scrapping the changes.

 

For my part, I would prefer that you leave Sentinels alone.   I think having Master Brawler add mez protection to Focused Fighting (FF) and Senses (FS) was great, I just think that you needed to have that made clear in the description of Master Brawler and FF/FS.  This will be a straight nerf to Sentinel SR.   I haven't had much feedback because while I have a 50 Beam/SR Sentinel, I don't play them regularly so I'm fine if you think that balance requires this change.  But if there's a choice to just not change Sentinel SR, that would be my preference.

 

I also think if you add the following to the description of Master Brawler people would understand what's going on better:

 

Quote

 Your are a master brawler, as such you have learned when its best to block an attack and absorb damage the most effectively. Using this power when you have the highest amount of endurance but the lowest amount of health will result in the most powerful effect possible. Owning this power will also improve your Focused Fighting and Focused Senses abilities by adding protection to control effects. This power can not be taken if you take Practiced Brawler.

 

While Master Brawler is owned, Focused Fighting provides protection to Immobilize, Knockback and Confuse effects; Focused Senses provides protection to Hold, Sleep and Disorient effects.

 

Added language in underlined/bold.

 

Off topic for this thread, but I GREATLY recommend that you do provide more explanation for Unleashed Might as well.   

Edited December 9 by Psi-bolt

[Black_Assassin]

I have just spent the morning playing my SR sent on both live and beta.

 

My immediate reactions:

Annoyance, because Master Brawler is being swapped to Practiced brawler and now I have to go through the rigmarole of a respec. 

 

In terms of gameplay, it is not breaking my experience playing this new click BUT I have immediately noticed I am considerably and noticeably less durable than Live version.

 

I am being nerfed for some reason? I don't really know what the real reason is, but the stated one is I am being nerfed because other people are stupid and cannot read. I don't feel like I should be nerfed for that reason, let them play with practiced brawler click. That is on them, not on me. 

 

Just my observation based on a fully attuned set of Preventative Medicines in the click absorb power:

 

Live: 461pts at 100% // 923pts at 0.1% (recharge 15s)

Beta: 280pts at 100% // 574pts at 0.1% (recharge 55s)

 

So on live I can not be held unless getting spammed and I can leverage master brawler to survive really tough encounters. 

On beta, I cannot be held because the new click will be double stacked so that's good. BUT I cannot survive those encounters because I do not have an absorb shield to use reactively and often because it will be on auto to have my mez protection up and its only giving me half the values with almost almost 75% less uptime. 

 

Sentinels are already mid at best, at least leave the SR stuff alone so we have something to cling on to. TYVM. 

[Bill Z Bubba]

Got the new build up and running on Test. Pylon weirdness in the other thread.

 

I added Focused Accuracy to the build knowing I was about to have an overabundance of endurance. Slotted it with a +5end-rec and the gaussian chance for buildup.

 

It helped *some* in a +4/x8 ITF but not nearly as much as I expected.

 

But now I had PB available every minute, still clicking it after hasten autofired so that I had no lapse in coverage and occasionally used it when health dipped. Also fired off elude relatively often just to see how much the +regen was helping.

 

But as I'm running through, still growling at the whiff fest that the ITF became, I realized I was spending a lot of time watching to see if elude and PB were recharged and thus less time just hopping around focused purely on murdering romans.

It was less fun. Was my mitigation higher than on live? Yes, of course. Do I enjoy the extra clickiness of it all? No.

 

EDIT: I see now the point is moot.

Edited December 9 by Bill Z Bubba

[Aracknight]

Don't nerf Sentinels with the PB/MB change.

 

And if you are going to proliferate MB from Sentinels to Tankers, Brutes, Stalkers, and Scrappers, just do a direct port.  Same functionality, same everything.  That's what people actually asked for.  The way it has been done makes it feel like a punishment somehow.  MB was changed "because people didn't understand the power description" when it came to putting the status resistance into the toggles.  It feels like "oh, you wanted MB, but now it's something different, and PB is objectively better.  Also, PB being better means it is no longer optimized.  Good luck not getting mezzed before you click for your new absorb power because you're used to having it on autofire or mapped to some other key to ALWAYS BE UP, so enjoy your crappy absorb."

 

You're not changing powers with these changes, you're changing playstyles, and that kind of makes me mad.

 

 

[Midnight Mystique]

I have to chime in with the folks who dislike the changes. I pretty much only played SR on sentinels, because currently its the best version of the set. It doesn't require you to constantly click to keep up your mez protection and it gives you a nice emergency button, not that I ever used it much as I tend to play a bit more conservatively than the +4/x8 solo impossible TF's folks. Between that and the extra end rec from enduring and its an awesome, playable set. 

 

The current changes on beta will see me dropping my sentinel SR' s like a hot potato and absolutely will not encourage me to play SR on any other AT's, especially as these sets won't have enduring to offset the extra end cost of master brawler.  I have no interest in taking practiced brawler, I dislike any build that requires a power on auto click (I play some of them, especially dominators, but I frequently get fed up without having to monitor an auto click to make  sure it goes off and switch to other toons).  I am not interested in paying a hefty, extra end cost for my status protection. As previous posters have noted, however you roll it this is a huge nerf to sentinel SR and at best a minor improvement to all other versions of SR. 

Edited December 9 by Midnight Mystique

[PyroBeetle]

I think the primary reason for the change the way they are doing it is there are specific reasons to make Practiced Brawler stack, primarily for PvP, and rather than get rid of the power entirely or just leaving it to those niche purposes, they are trying to make it have some value. The whole goal of the absorb being better when you are more in need fits well with a regular PB build because I often see my health river between 50 and 70 percent before my resistance numbers just mean my regen is exceeding the hits that are getting through, and I nirmally have PB tied to a movement key so I dont have ti think about refreshing it...functionally it works, but not as well as the old MB I can just reactively use this when I need it button. It also gives a side benefit to having a casting time versus just having status protection tied to the T1 and T2.

 

But it does give some reason for PB to exist, because I sure as hell never took it on any of my SR Sentinels, MB was just that good on comparison.

Edited December 9 by PyroBeetle

[Midnight Mystique]

31 minutes ago, PyroBeetle said:

I think the primary reason for the change the way they are doing it is there are specific reasons to make Practiced Brawler stack, primarily for PvP, and rather than get rid of the power entirely or just leaving it to those niche purposes, they are trying to make it have some value. The whole goal of the absorb being better when you are more in need fits well with a regular PB build because I often see my health river between 50 and 70 percent before my resistance numbers just mean my regen is exceeding the hits that are getting through, and I nirmally have PB tied to a movement key so I dont have ti think about refreshing it...functionally it works, but not as well as the old MB I can just reactively use this when I need it button. It also gives a side benefit to having a casting time versus just having status protection tied to the T1 and T2.

 

But it does give some reason for PB to exist, because I sure as hell never took it on any of my SR Sentinels, MB was just that good on comparison.

Except that as it stands you will rarely get the asborb when it most matters - when your HP are low because you need to fire off PB at least every 2 mins in order to get status protection. Yes, eventually your def will get to the point where you will get hit so infrequently you will likely be able to take the chance of saving PB for the absorb - but on any AT but a tank (and possibly a brute now) your not going to be there until at least the 30's, if not 40's. That's fine for folks who PL their character to 50 in a day or two, but some of us LIKE playing the 1-49 game. 

 

Personally, I don't care what they do with scrapper/stalker/brute/tank SR - as I stated early, this is a straight out nerf to sentinel's SR that is completely unnecessary. Sentinel armor sets have always been different from melee AT armor sets - changing them to 'match' melee armor sets makes no sense to me as that just makes things boring. I don't mind losing the absorb (although I am not happy with that) but I dislike having to pay for an extra toggle when I didn't before. Now, if they add something to the toggle, maybe some extra regen or a hp boost, even a minor amount, that would balance things a bit better, give you something to slot in the power other than end reduction AND match up more accurately with other sets that have status protection toggles - almost all of those give something other than status protection.  I could probably live with that. 

[Chris24601]

7 hours ago, Psi-bolt said:

 

For my part, I would prefer that you leave Sentinels alone.   I think having Master Brawler add mez protection to Focused Fighting (FF) and Senses (FS) was great, I just think that you needed to have that made clear in the description of Master Brawler and FF/FS.  This will be a straight nerf to Sentinel SR. 

I am feeling exactly the same way about my Sentinel. Bad enough I can't build opportunity outside of combat (due to the nature of my work I am often having to log out and back in, which always resets it to zero... this isn't an issue on live since it fills up in about a minute. Now I have to start fights to get it building.

 

But on top of that I went from having a cool emergency click power slotted with a heal set to improve the boost it gave me, to now having a completely boring passive defense set that costs more endurance to run for the same level of defense and no emergency absorb power for when something does break through the defense numbers.

 

Definitely a straight nerf that will also require a respec... and I'd just gotten my alpha unlocked and was feeling extremely happy with my build where I tried a whole bunch of new things I'd never done on a build before and it was working super-smooth.

 

If I had a vote I'd say just leave Sentinel Super Reflexes exactly as it is now... it is running absolutely fine.

 

Frankly, any confusion about how Master Brawler isn't really an issue because the two powers it modifies are among the MUST HAVES (with one of the two even required by build mechanics) for the power set so anyone with Master Brawler is going to have them; so it will just work anyway. Frankly, I'm not THAT bright, so if I could figure out how it worked, I think anyone could.

 

My fix would be to make sure to add to the detailed power description of the first two powers "only with Master Brawler selected" to all of the mez protection parts and call it a day.

 

Sort version... Leave Sentinel Super Reflexes as it is on live.

[Aracknight]

Practiced Brawler is a power used to proactively keep from being mezzed being saddled with an absorb designed to be used reactively.  

 

Which, to me, is bad.

 

Now, I am aware that pb can be used reactively and in a break free fashion.  On the other hand, there's too many guides and asks for how to keep it up 100% of the time without using autofire for me to believe thats the majority.

[Wavicle]

It’s the conditional heals more when your health is low that is causing the problem.

 

Because if it just gave you a static amount of absorb, then you could use it proactively without any issues.

[Aracknight]

Agreed. This is what i meant.  You put it more clearly and succinctly, thanks.

 

Make the absorb last the full duration please while you're at it.

Edited December 9 by Aracknight

[ItashuLead]

10 hours ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

While here I noticed some feedback on practiced/master brawer I want to touch on:

 

First off, we are trying to keep the active/click as the power that adds more benefits by virtue of requiring monitoring and timing. Master Brawler being a toggle is enough in my opinion for it to not need an additional edge over Practiced Brawler. SR is still a VERY strong set though, so we don't want to make the absorb on this new click too strong.

 

On existing sentinels: I intentionally looked into preserving builds as much as possible and ran with the assumption that people picking master brawler did so more for the toggle-based mez prot than the absorb. I can see how that can result in a more disruptive change due to enhancements. If you feel these existing sentinels should instead have their master brawler converted to the click Practiced Brawler so their build faces less disruption, that can be done. With the caveat though, that these builds will now rely on the click for mez protection.

 

If enough players consider either too disruptive, there is always the possibility of rolling back the changes be it for further consideration or scrapping the changes.

First of all, thank you for coming into the Feedback forums for discussion, always appreciated, Powerhouse. Thanks for the heads up on the T9 rollback, please keep us posted.

 

I see both sides of this discussion, and I would like to raise a middle ground.  As it stands currently on the main server, on a Sent, I would feel VERY inclined to take Master Brawler.

 

Not having to remember a mez clicky? Great!

 

I get an absorb panic button?  Great!

 

So, that in mind, it's clear maybe SOME change is in order.  If proliferation of 'The Choice' is on the menu, I propose: Keep Master Brawler's current functionality off the main server the same, but increase the recharge to 2 minutes.  And add absorb to Practiced Brawler, but make it a flat Absorb instead, in line with Ablative Carapace from Bio, or Psychokinetic Barrier from Psi Armor.  As you already planned for Practiced Brawler, I do think this Absorb not lasting the full duration of mez protection makes sense, but maybe 45 seconds.  This way, if the 'The Choice' is proliferated, even beyond mez protection preferences... Melees would also consider: do I need a mini-panic button, or is a steady source of Absorb more important?

 

It is of note that both having Absorb would allow for 'Heal/Absorb' sets to be slotted, allowing for more utility with Practiced Brawler.

Edited December 10 by ItashuLead
Specifics!

[drbuzzard]

Given my druthers, I would like every AT except Sentinel to get the changed SR (master brawler in that form), and Sentinels can stay the same. I was looking forward to toggle status protection so I could play the set with perma hasten without workarounds or having to remember to click it. If that is not to be, I will just skip SR on any build where I would like hasten (which really means I won't play it much). I have a SR tank, and I suppose it is durable, but meh. This was one of the things in this update I was looking forward to. 

 

Heck, I personally could take sentinels taking the hit to make master brawler generally available (and I have a lot of SR sentinels). However that is not the general sentiment. 

[Troo]

16 hours ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

First off, we are trying to keep the active/click as the power that adds more benefits by virtue of requiring monitoring and timing. Master Brawler being a toggle is enough in my opinion for it to not need an additional edge over Practiced Brawler. SR is still a VERY strong set though, so we don't want to make the absorb on this new click too strong.

 

Makes sense.

 

16 hours ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

intentionally looked into preserving builds as much as possible

 

This is appreciated.

[Shin Magmus]

   I'm going to reiterate that a Mez Protection Toggle with no extra effects, that accepts no Sets and can only really be slotted with an EndRedux enhancement, is a bad idea.  A power like that is losing to Wet Ice in Ice Armor, already one of the worst Toggles of its type in the game.  Do you really want to create a power *that* trash?

 

     Having the toggle grant either a small amount of Max HP or Regen, and making it thus accept Heal sets, standardizes and equalizes the build/IO options between Practiced Brawler and Master Brawler.  It's okay to make Practiced Brawler stronger, but it's not okay to make Master Brawler so worthless that nobody takes it. 

 

   I also think that the Absorb on Practiced Brawler should last longer so that people using the power proactively or on autocast are at least statistically more likely to get some benefit from the Absorb, rather than none if it wears off before ever getting hit.  Here's what the balance between the powers should look like:

 

Master Brawler: Constant moderate mez protection and +1 "Balancing Point" Max HP, accepts Heal sets. 

 

Practiced Brawer: Stackable (potentially higher) mez protection if you click more often and +3 or +4 "Balancing Points" of Absorb, accepts Heal sets. 

 

   Bear in mind that across the street, the devs are making Obscure Sustenance weaker so that everyone takes Dark Regeneration: basically doing the exact same thing that's happening here in SR.  Why even have mutually exclusive powers if one option is overwhelmingly worse?

[Troo]

10 hours ago, PyroBeetle said:

I think the primary reason for the change the way they are doing it is there are specific reasons to make Practiced Brawler stack, primarily for PvP

 

What makes you think this?

 

1 hour ago, Shin Magmus said:

Why even have mutually exclusive powers if one option is overwhelmingly worse?

 

"overwhelmingly"?? Exaggerate much?

It's more choices/consequences, isn't it?

Choose the easy path and receive a little less benefit -vs- choose the active/pay attention path & receive a little more benefit.

For many a toggle rather than a click is the benefit.

If the application of changes doesn't match the choices/consequences intention, definitely some tuning is in order.

 

Spoiler

Master Brawler (Toggle)

8.30 hold protection on self unresistable

8.30 immobilize protection on self unresistable

8.30 stun protection on self unresistable

8.30 sleep protection on self unresistable

100.00%% resistance to knockup on self Ignores buffs and enhancements unresistable

100.00%% resistance to knock on self Ignores buffs and enhancements unresistable

100.00%% resistance to repel on self Ignores buffs and enhancements unresistable

10.00 knockup protection on self unresistable

10.00 knock protection on self unresistable

10.00 repel protection on self unresistable 

 

Practiced Brawler (Click Recharge Time: 3m 20s {less than 2m with slotting})

Special max absorption for 30.00s on self

8.30 hold protection for 2m 0s on self unresistable

8.30 immobilize protection for 2m 0s on self unresistable

8.30 stun protection for 2m 0s on self unresistable

8.30 sleep protection for 2m 0s on self unresistable

10000.00%% resistance to knockup for 2m 0s on self Ignores buffs and enhancements unresistable

10000.00%% resistance to knock for 2m 0s on self Ignores buffs and enhancements unresistable

10.00 knockup protection for 2m 0s on self unresistable

10.00 knock protection for 2m 0s on self unresistable 

 

Edited Wednesday at 07:53 AM by Troo

[Jacke]

I took some time to understand Master Brawler on Sentinels as it is now on Live.

• Adding Master Brawler to a build adds Mez Protections and Resistances effects to Focused Fighting and Focused Senses Toggles.
• Master Brawler itself is a Click Power that gives a variable Absorb Shield.

Okay.  Now, that's a bit complex, so why was it done that way?

 

Because it was a solution that worked.

 

Master Brawler gives two groups of effects:

• Mez Protections and Resistances on Toggle(s).
• A variable Absorb on a Click.

Doing it the way the current Master Brawler works on Sentinels means Master Brawler itself is the Click, while the existing Toggles carry the Mez Protecitons and Resistances.

 

Could have Master Brawler give 2 Powers, a Toggle and a Click for the respective groups of effects?  Yes.  But unless that Toggle is 0 End cost, there's more End cost to using Master Brawler over Practiced Brawler.

 

Now, the Devs are worried that too many Players don't understand this complexity and are trying to simplify it while proliferating it to other ATs' Super Reflexes.

 

Except that Master Brawler no longer gets the Absorb,  Practiced Brawler does.  And that Absorb Shield doesn't last until PB is recharged.  Which means there's a conflict between using PB for Mez Protections and Resistances and using PB for the Absorb Shield.

 

Old way = Complexity

New way = Conflict

 

There's a lot of Complexity all over City.  We learn enough to get by.  We learn it in more detail when that's needed.

 

What we don't need is a Powerset Power that has Conflict between the timing of its effects.

 

And why should Master Brawler lose its Absorb Shield?

 

There's a few ways to fix this.  The one certainty is the above changed version of Super Reflexes should not be released.

 

I think there's a real simple solution that I like:

• Keep the current Master Brawler as in Sentinels, including the conditional effects in Focused Fighting and Focused Senses.
• Proliferate that Master Brawler setup, including the conditional effects in Focused Fighting and Focused Senses, to other ATs' Super Reflexes.
• Give Practiced Brawler an Absorb Shield that lasts as long as its Mez Protections and Resistances.
  • Make the effect replace so the Absorb doesn't self-stack.

Any other proper workable solution is more complex.

 

 

[Troo]

Practiced Brawler

Is it intentional for this to stack or is this supposed to 'replace' effects?

[Shin Magmus]

1 hour ago, Troo said:

 

"overwhelmingly"?? Exaggerate much?

It's more choices/consequences, isn't it?

Choose the easy path and receive a little less benefit -vs- choose the active/pay attention path & receive a little more benefit.

For many a toggle rather than a click is the benefit.

If the application of changes doesn't match the choices/consequences intention, definitely some tuning is in order.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Master Brawler (Toggle)

8.30 hold protection on self unresistable

8.30 immobilize protection on self unresistable

8.30 stun protection on self unresistable

8.30 sleep protection on self unresistable

100.00%% resistance to knockup on self Ignores buffs and enhancements unresistable

100.00%% resistance to knock on self Ignores buffs and enhancements unresistable

100.00%% resistance to repel on self Ignores buffs and enhancements unresistable

10.00 knockup protection on self unresistable

10.00 knock protection on self unresistable

10.00 repel protection on self unresistable 

 

Practiced Brawler (Click Recharge Time: 3m 20s {less than 2m with slotting})

Special max absorption for 30.00s on self

8.30 hold protection for 2m 0s on self unresistable

8.30 immobilize protection for 2m 0s on self unresistable

8.30 stun protection for 2m 0s on self unresistable

8.30 sleep protection for 2m 0s on self unresistable

10000.00%% resistance to knockup for 2m 0s on self Ignores buffs and enhancements unresistable

10000.00%% resistance to knock for 2m 0s on self Ignores buffs and enhancements unresistable

10.00 knockup protection for 2m 0s on self unresistable

10.00 knock protection for 2m 0s on self unresistable 

 

   I spelled out the issue with the toggle Master Brawler already, but I'll be happy to explain it once more for you.  Many players like to be able to slot something of value into powers they take: either Set bonuses or just useful Unique IOs, or a combination of the two.  Even if you 1-slotted both Master Brawler and Practiced Brawler, one mules Preventitive Medicine or Numina's Convalescence uniques and saves you a slot in Health, while the other is a dead slot.  That is the definition of "overwhelmingly worse" to a good builder.  You are welcome to not ascribe value to this the same way that I do, but it doesn't change the numbers. 

 

   Additionally, having one click in a set of nothing but toggles and passives (besides the skippable Elude) isn't "hard" to me.  I don't want or need an easier option, in the easiest genre of video games, in an easy example of that genre, on an easy AT in that specific game: melee ATs.  I do not see any benefit to the easier option, I'm already almost falling asleep at my keyboard over here and ZzzzZzzz...

[ForeverLaxx]

2 hours ago, Shin Magmus said:

Why even have mutually exclusive powers if one option is overwhelmingly worse?

Because that seems to be the point of this "branching power" thing. I personally think creating mutually exclusive power picks like this was a mistake from the start and it only results in more and more players asking for more branching powers when they don't want a change that's coming (see the T9 overhaul/reversion for evidence of this).

 

To me, this "mutual exclusivity" is the Devs' attempt at trying to let everyone have their cake and eat it too (the devs themselves included). They get to change a power in the manner they want, while tossing a bone to people who gnash their teeth about losing something integral to their previous choices and playstyle even if that choice is meant to be inferior to the new option in 90% of gameplay scenarios. People still bring up the "Beanbag Debacle" for this reason and I bet if branching powers were on the table back then, it would have been suggested as a "fix" by someone somewhere.

 

This is a discussion topic I have to tread lightly on because I'm no stranger to the "why are you completely changing the identity and feel of a set just to homogenize it closer to 'top performers'" or the "cool, another 'highlight ring minigame' being shoved into a set it doesn't need to be in" line of argumentation. I'm generally a proponent for keeping sets functioning in a manner as close to their original design or player expectation as possible when updated, which is why I hated the Energy Melee changes... but "branching power exclusivity" feels like a cheatcode and is only going to generate more work for the devs down the line as they now have to balance what is functionally twice as many build options as before because some people might have Power Version 1 and others Power Version 2. By making one choice superior in 90% of content, you're going to be cutting a lot of that "extra dev time" down because that's the version of the set they're intending players to pick.

 

In my opinion, the only time a power should be completely redesigned in functionality is if you can't make the set work the way it needs to otherwise. These branching power half-measures shouldn't ever have been a thing.

[drbuzzard]

8 hours ago, Shin Magmus said:

   I spelled out the issue with the toggle Master Brawler already, but I'll be happy to explain it once more for you.  Many players like to be able to slot something of value into powers they take: either Set bonuses or just useful Unique IOs, or a combination of the two.  Even if you 1-slotted both Master Brawler and Practiced Brawler, one mules Preventitive Medicine or Numina's Convalescence uniques and saves you a slot in Health, while the other is a dead slot.  That is the definition of "overwhelmingly worse" to a good builder.  You are welcome to not ascribe value to this the same way that I do, but it doesn't change the numbers. 

 

   Additionally, having one click in a set of nothing but toggles and passives (besides the skippable Elude) isn't "hard" to me.  I don't want or need an easier option, in the easiest genre of video games, in an easy example of that genre, on an easy AT in that specific game: melee ATs.  I do not see any benefit to the easier option, I'm already almost falling asleep at my keyboard over here and ZzzzZzzz...

 

Apparently you don't recognize that people who want toggle status protection in SR exist. I dislike click status protection in all cases. While I do have SR, SD, and Ninjitsu characters, I don't play them. I don't need Master Brawler to have extra stuff for me to be happy with it. Would I like shiny stuff included? Sure, more toys are nice, but I don't know that such is justified. Convenience is a value on a power. You don't like secondaries with all toggles, fine. I am quite fond of them. 

 

Unless you're a big SR sentinel player (not the biggest chunk of population to be quite honest), there are zero negative effects of this change on you. In fact, Practiced Brawler is getting a buff to compensate that it is a bit more bother (admittedly it is a small buff). Sure I dislike the sentinel change, and I have a sentinel with every primary/SR, but it won't destroy my builds, though it will be some bother. I just find it odd that somehow there's a huge sentinel fanbase speaking up on this when clearly there isn't one for anything else. That fanbase is killing the Master Brawler extension to other ATs. That's where we are now. It is dead and in the ground. The options on the table (and already chosen) were Practiced Brawler with a small buff, and click status protection available (with a nerf to the sentinel version), or status quo. That's it. Nothing else. During a beta you can ask for number changes and have some chance of getting them. You can also ask for revamping of powers which are on the table, but that will just result in the option being removed from the table. 

 

Personally I wish they could just give us Master Brawler for the other ATs and leave sentinels their unique secondaries. That wasn't on the table either, so I was willing to take the option set before me which I preferred and it had some downside (SR sentinel nerf). 

Edited Wednesday at 05:17 PM by drbuzzard

[FupDup]

Toggle MB could’ve been saved in a few different ways like a small bit of regen, absorb, or max HP so the comparison would be less one-sided with a clearly blatant winner. And Sents could’ve gotten a little extra stuff added to Enduring to offset the nerf they’d feel (since Enduring is Sent exclusive). 

 

It’s unfortunate that many beta cycles end up as “You need to take everything exactly as proposed or we scrap it all” (see also: T9 changes scrapped instead of tweaked around 60s durations).  

Edited Wednesday at 03:46 PM by FupDup

[Shin Magmus]

8 minutes ago, FupDup said:

Toggle MB could’ve been saved in a few different ways like a small bit of regen, absorb, or max HP so the comparison would be less one-sided with a clearly blatant winner. And Sents could’ve gotten a little extra stuff added to Enduring to offset the nerf they’d feel (since Enduring is Sent exclusive). 

 

It’s unfortunate that many beta cycles end up as “You need to take everything exactly as proposed or we scrap it all” (see also: T9 changes scrapped instead of tweaked around 60s durations).  

   Large correctitude.

[Troo]

7 hours ago, ForeverLaxx said:

"why are you completely changing the identity and feel of a set just to homogenize it closer to 'top performers'" or the "cool, another 'highlight ring minigame' being shoved into a set it doesn't need to be in" line of argumentation. I'm generally a proponent for keeping sets functioning in a manner as close to their original design or player expectation as possible when updated

 

well said