Bots/X Mastermind, what would you consider the strongest secondary?

[cognimancer]

I fully levelled (50 plus incarnate etc...) a Bots/Traps. It is hard to explain exactly what makes it great but I do know a few reasons why it worked.

1) all the right debuffs in one place. Traps was given a very weak heal and was given outstanding debuff and damage in exchange. Acid mortar means that you will hit. Poison trap shuts down adds as well as most controllers and can wreck giant monster's health regen. Even the stupid seeker drones debuff accuracy, which compliments the defense granted by shield generator. And by the way, just throw caltrops and stand there. The AI poops itself and runs in circles everytime it steps on a Lego.

2. Shield generator. <-- it's really good. Mez protection is super important in chaotic fights. I played FF for a while and was jealous of the generator. Once it is out your endurance doesn't matter. It is clunky at times but so worth it. Bonus: when it blows up randomly at a quiet moment you get to watch your blaster friends freak out.

3. Aggro management. Normally, the MM draws hate by debuffing and healing. Traps confuses the AI. Acid mortar is a mini tank. Seeker drones draw fire. Occasionally something will pointlessly shoot at your generator. Poison trap lasts longer than the aggro list cares to remember. And as I said before caltrops can scare almost anything. Also, triage beacon is weak but it does not draw aggro the same way as AoE heals. The aggro managment makes you and your team highly survivable.

 

Traps are strange. Definately not for everyone, but they work really well. I never felt underpowered with bots/traps. I was an AV killing machine.

[desarix]

There is no way to change the graphics on Cold Domination is there ? I recall if I am not mistaken it had a different graphic before on the defender.

[Balorn]

There is no way to change the graphics on Cold Domination is there ? I recall if I am not mistaken it had a different graphic before on the defender.

 

There's a Minimal FX option. I gave it a quick test, and here's a bunch of people I put Ice Shield on when set to Minimal FX and tinted desaturated/dark colors.

[Wenlocke]

I fully levelled (50 plus incarnate etc...) a Bots/Traps. It is hard to explain exactly what makes it great but I do know a few reasons why it worked.

1) all the right debuffs in one place. Traps was given a very weak heal and was given outstanding debuff and damage in exchange. Acid mortar means that you will hit. Poison trap shuts down adds as well as most controllers and can wreck giant monster's health regen. Even the stupid seeker drones debuff accuracy, which compliments the defense granted by shield generator. And by the way, just throw caltrops and stand there. The AI poops itself and runs in circles everytime it steps on a Lego.

2. Shield generator. <-- it's really good. Mez protection is super important in chaotic fights. I played FF for a while and was jealous of the generator. Once it is out your endurance doesn't matter. It is clunky at times but so worth it. Bonus: when it blows up randomly at a quiet moment you get to watch your blaster friends freak out.

3. Aggro management. Normally, the MM draws hate by debuffing and healing. Traps confuses the AI. Acid mortar is a mini tank. Seeker drones draw fire. Occasionally something will pointlessly shoot at your generator. Poison trap lasts longer than the aggro list cares to remember. And as I said before caltrops can scare almost anything. Also, triage beacon is weak but it does not draw aggro the same way as AoE heals. The aggro managment makes you and your team highly survivable.

 

Traps are strange. Definately not for everyone, but they work really well. I never felt underpowered with bots/traps. I was an AV killing machine.

 

All of this. Plus, of course, it's thematic as all get out, in the way that, say, dark has to work at. If you can make robots, you can make gadgets. Dark requires a little more of a logical leap.

[ParaBruce]

There is no way to change the graphics on Cold Domination is there ? I recall if I am not mistaken it had a different graphic before on the defender.

 

There's a Minimal FX option. I gave it a quick test, and here's a bunch of people I put Ice Shield on when set to Minimal FX and tinted desaturated/dark colors.

 

Wow! That's like a zillion percent less intrusive. Thanks for the lead!

 

[Lazarillo]

There's a Minimal FX option. I gave it a quick test, and here's a bunch of people I put Ice Shield on when set to Minimal FX and tinted desaturated/dark colors.

The option doesn't seem to appear for MMs or Controllers, though, only for Defenders and Corruptors (probably just an oversight, but dunno what the odds are of it being fixed any time in the forseeable future).

[Charistoph]

I fully levelled (50 plus incarnate etc...) a Bots/Traps. It is hard to explain exactly what makes it great but I do know a few reasons why it worked.

1) all the right debuffs in one place. Traps was given a very weak heal and was given outstanding debuff and damage in exchange. Acid mortar means that you will hit. Poison trap shuts down adds as well as most controllers and can wreck giant monster's health regen. Even the stupid seeker drones debuff accuracy, which compliments the defense granted by shield generator. And by the way, just throw caltrops and stand there. The AI poops itself and runs in circles everytime it steps on a Lego.

2. Shield generator. <-- it's really good. Mez protection is super important in chaotic fights. I played FF for a while and was jealous of the generator. Once it is out your endurance doesn't matter. It is clunky at times but so worth it. Bonus: when it blows up randomly at a quiet moment you get to watch your blaster friends freak out.

3. Aggro management. Normally, the MM draws hate by debuffing and healing. Traps confuses the AI. Acid mortar is a mini tank. Seeker drones draw fire. Occasionally something will pointlessly shoot at your generator. Poison trap lasts longer than the aggro list cares to remember. And as I said before caltrops can scare almost anything. Also, triage beacon is weak but it does not draw aggro the same way as AoE heals. The aggro managment makes you and your team highly survivable.

 

Traps are strange. Definately not for everyone, but they work really well. I never felt underpowered with bots/traps. I was an AV killing machine.

 

All of this. Plus, of course, it's thematic as all get out, in the way that, say, dark has to work at. If you can make robots, you can make gadgets. Dark requires a little more of a logical leap.

 

They're magic robots like Warmachine.

[ParaBruce]

They're magic robots like Warmachine.

 

One of my high-tech magic-using characters has a bio that says "Magic is a matter of symbolism and intent, not wardrobe. Ritual and enchantment work just as well on high-tech alloys and force fields as they do on wood and hand-forged metals. What I do is magical whether I happen to be wearing cybernetic armor or a cloth robe."

 

Be it noted that "magic is a matter of symbolism and intent" is swiped bodily from Randall Garrett's stories about Lord D'arcy, royal investigator in an alternate 20th century with working magic. Good fun, particularly if you think locked-room murder mysteries are extra fun when there's magic involved. :)

 

[srmalloy]

I had a character on Guardian whose background had him originating in a world much like that of Poul Anderson's Operation Chaos, where magic was technology. A flashlight is still a flashlight if it contains a charged runestone rather than a pair of 'D' cells.

[OgreTusk]

I just made a Robotic MM and just hit level 14, and my secondary is Empathy. No additional attack, but the heals on it are great.  Any that are close by I get with AoEs, and then my single target heals are quick to recharge if needed. Rarely have an issue of dying.

[Ragnar]

There's a Minimal FX option. I gave it a quick test, and here's a bunch of people I put Ice Shield on when set to Minimal FX and tinted desaturated/dark colors.

The option doesn't seem to appear for MMs or Controllers, though, only for Defenders and Corruptors (probably just an oversight, but dunno what the odds are of it being fixed any time in the forseeable future).

 

If you pick the darkest blue for both color settings for the Shields you can make them much less intrusive looking.

That is unfortunately all you can do for an MM.

[plainguy]

Robot Traps was massive for me.. It was a great solo'er toon. But for those that forget the pets had a tendency to run all over the place and pull stuff across the map. I use the numpad key bind setup to constantly pull them back to me. It was just 2nd nature to keep telling them to come to me or go here because you just had too. 

[catsi563]

FF is in my experience the strongest and easiest synergy with Bots especially after they made it so one FF application buffs EVERYONE on the team including pets in one shot,

 

once the Protector bots start stacking bubbles with yours the little guys become minitanks and with the other threes firepower its like this wall of blasters that just mows things down while laughing at most return fire.

[Scientist]

Is there a short list of secondaries that are particularly handy if you want to do AV/GM hunting? Or, conversely, secondaries that are particularly anti-handy?

 

Back in the original game the markets weren't mixed, so I had a bots/traps MM without a lot of Inf.  The redside story arcs involve fighting a lot more AVs than the blueside ones.  I soloed over a dozen AVs on SO enhancements on the way to 50, when I actually started investing in IO sets.  I don't know many other ATs that can solo AVs on SOs, without more skill than I have. :)

 

As others have said, though, Traps is not for the ADD.  You need to be willing to set them up and tinker with them to get the best results.  It does have one of the most powerful -regen debuffs in the game, though, which is relevant to soloing AVs and GMs.  I suspect Cold would work well too, it has great -resist debuffs, but it may need even more global recharge than Traps, which is expensive.  I only ran a cold/sonic defender, not a MM. 

 

Rad and Dark also have good AV tools, but a lot of AVs are mezz heavy, which is a problem for them. 

[Dixa]

Is there a short list of secondaries that are particularly handy if you want to do AV/GM hunting? Or, conversely, secondaries that are particularly anti-handy?

 

Back in the original game the markets weren't mixed, so I had a bots/traps MM without a lot of Inf.  The redside story arcs involve fighting a lot more AVs than the blueside ones.  I soloed over a dozen AVs on SO enhancements on the way to 50, when I actually started investing in IO sets.  I don't know many other ATs that can solo AVs on SOs, without more skill than I have. :)

 

As others have said, though, Traps is not for the ADD.  You need to be willing to set them up and tinker with them to get the best results.  It does have one of the most powerful -regen debuffs in the game, though, which is relevant to soloing AVs and GMs.  I suspect Cold would work well too, it has great -resist debuffs, but it may need even more global recharge than Traps, which is expensive.  I only ran a cold/sonic defender, not a MM. 

 

Rad and Dark also have good AV tools, but a lot of AVs are mezz heavy, which is a problem for them.

 

aye traps can have double acid mortars and double triage beacons and spamming poison traps before their duration runs out without using a single purple set.

[Dixa]

Here is my thugs/traps tankermind. softcapped myself and the pets and only one purple set, but just two pieces from it (honestly only one piece you need)

 

this setup softcaps you before incarnate and your pets after incarnate, they will be at 44% before then. being slept still sucks but when tankerminding like this you are spamming provoke and tend to get attacked right after anyway. the knockdown in caltrops is quite hilarious and this is the only one that will work. other forms of chance to knockdown or chance to hold are all ppm which will only fire on one target every tick at a 3.8 ppm. overwhelming force is still percentage based and can mean a lot of fishies flopping assuming you didn't use some sort of -kb power.

 

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[eetorres76]

So I made my first MM last night; Demon/Kinetics. Since my only experience with pets was via my fire/kin controller back in the day, I figured speed-boosted pets was the way to go.

 

I know this thread is about the Robots primary, but read through it thinking I would glean some relevant info. I am rather surprised that kinetics is not considered one of the stronger secondaries.

 

Should I remake my Demon/Kinetics MM with a different secondary?

[Kohrrl]

So I made my first MM last night; Demon/Kinetics. Since my only experience with pets was via my fire/kin controller back in the day, I figured speed-boosted pets was the way to go.

 

 

I don't believe your speed boost works on your pets.

[Lazarillo]

I don't believe your speed boost works on your pets.

Only the +Recharge aspect of Speed Boost fails to apply to pets, as far as I know.  It still increases their movement speed and their Endurance Recovery.

Although, that was not originally the case...depending on when "back in the day" was, it's possible he's remembering a time when the +Recharge still applied too.

[eetorres76]

I don't believe your speed boost works on your pets.

Only the +Recharge aspect of Speed Boost fails to apply to pets, as far as I know.  It still increases their movement speed and their Endurance Recovery.

Although, that was not originally the case...depending on when "back in the day" was, it's possible he's remembering a time when the +Recharge still applied too.

 

Ok so you're saying that not even a fire/kin controller's pets are effected by the +Recharge anymore?

[Lazarillo]

Ok so you're saying that not even a fire/kin controller's pets are effected by the +Recharge anymore?

Too...many...quoteboxes.  But yeah, that's what I'm saying.  The Fire Control Imps only get the run speed and Recovery from Speed Boost now.  They are immune to +Recharge, essentially (as are all other summoned pets).

[Sovera]

Bots/Cold does appear to be a better version of Bots/FF. But in either case I worry about how we heal our pets. Are we supposed to run around with Aid Other?

[Dixa]

Bots/Cold does appear to be a better version of Bots/FF. But in either case I worry about how we heal our pets. Are we supposed to run around with Aid Other?

 

until you get mezzed. and if yo uare going to leave yourself weak to cc, play the superior time.

[JnEricsonx]

On 5/16/2019 at 8:30 PM, srmalloy said:

I had a character on Guardian whose background had him originating in a world much like that of Poul Anderson's Operation Chaos, where magic was technology. A flashlight is still a flashlight if it contains a charged runestone rather than a pair of 'D' cells.

Wow, someone else who read that book!   🙂

[ChromeFamily]

So has anyone's opinion changed on this since all the updates? I'm thinking of rolling a robot mastermind but can't decide on a secondary.