Pylon Damage Thread

[SomeGuy]

OK, these have all been done on Brainstorm due to the fact that the new pylons by vanguard base make testing a LOT easier.

 

These are all AVERAGES of 10+ runs. Not best runs. No outside buffs, all build. Hybrid off. Etc.

 

Going to go in order of fastest.

 

Scrapper     DB/BIO     1:01 (Degen/Enflame/Melt Armor/Proc) BF - AS - SS - RoF (ATO2 in BF)

 

Scrapper     Kat/BIO     1:03 (Degen/Enflame/Melt Armor/Proc) SD - GD - GC - SD - Char - GD (ATO2 in SD)

 

Scrapper     TW/BIO     1:06 (Degen/Enflame/Melt Armor/Proc) BM - FT - AoD - RA - FT - AoD - RA - FT - Char momentum drop CB - FT - AoD - RA - FT (ATO2 in FT)

 

Scrapper     MA/BIO     1:13 (Degen/Enflame/Melt Armor/Proc) EC - SK - CaK - RoF (ATO2 in EC)

 

Scrapper     TW/ENA     1:23 (Degen/Melt Armor/Enflame/Proc) BM - FT - AoD - RA - FT - AoD - RA - FT - Char momentum drop CB - FT - AoD - RA - FT (ATO2 in FT)

 

Scrapper     EM/ENA     1:37 (Degen/Melt Armor/Enflame) TF - ET - RoF - BS (ATO2 in ET)

 

Scrapper     CLAWS/EA     1:39 (Degen/Enflame/Melt Armor/Proc) FU - Focus - Slash - Char - FU - Focus - Slash - Shockwave (ATO2 in FU)

 

The TW/ENA is the one I tested the most. I can't figure out why that combo is doing THAT well. And that's with a build useful for anything. All the ENA builds are TBH, but that one really shocked me for how consistent it was at doing DPS. Now with that said, TW and KAT absolutely need the FF procs in FT/AoD and SD/GD to do their best. It's still wild to me they are that much of a smoke show.

 

I ran into @Ratch_ while testing, and he proposed giving Char a shot. That was a good idea. Very good. He was dropping pylons in 30 some odd seconds. Was silly.

 

Edited February 5 by SomeGuy

[Ratch_]

This run doesn't fit within the criteria of this thread's runs, but it was fun to do this.

For those interested in seeing another side of pylon runs and/or what will probably become a form of new trapdoor runs, Koopak is running a new thread of criteria and data sheet collection. 

[SomeGuy]

I got to see @Ratch_ do some wild stuff.

 

Also, I can't figure out why the TW/ENA is doing as well as it is. I just did 5 more runs with no outside buffs, all build. Average on those runs was 1:15.

[Ratch_]

12 minutes ago, SomeGuy said:

I got to see @Ratch_ do some wild stuff.

 

Also, I can't figure out why the TW/ENA is doing as well as it is. I just did 5 more runs with no outside buffs, all build. Average on those runs was 1:15.

Force Feedback proc'ing being very favorable to you ahahahaha. Gotta love fishing for that

[SomeGuy]

41 minutes ago, Ratch_ said:

Force Feedback proc'ing being very favorable to you ahahahaha. Gotta love fishing for that

 

That's the thing. Only on two of my runs did the proc go off when I needed it to. I don't know WTF is going on. I'm monitoring my damage and everything to make sure I'm not getting some weird buff I'm not aware of. I know I've really gotten in to a flow of my build knowing when things are going to come off cooldown, And I use WS way more during my BM chain than the second AoD I want.

[BrandX]

13 hours ago, SomeGuy said:

OK, these have all been done on Brainstorm due to the fact that the new pylons by vanguard base make testing a LOT easier.

 

These are all AVERAGES of 10+ runs. Not best runs. No outside buffs, all build. Hybrid off. Etc.

 

Going to go in order of fastest.

 

Scrapper     DB/BIO     1:01 (Degen/Enflame/Melt Armor/Proc) BF - AS - SS - RoF (ATO2 in BF)

 

Scrapper     Kat/BIO     1:03 (Degen/Enflame/Melt Armor/Proc) SD - GD - GC - SD - Char - GD (ATO2 in SD)

 

Scrapper     TW/BIO     1:06 (Degen/Enflame/Melt Armor/Proc) BM - FT - AoD - RA - FT - AoD - RA - FT - Char momentum drop CB - FT - AoD - RA - FT (ATO2 in FT)

 

Scrapper     MA/BIO     1:13 (Degen/Enflame/Melt Armor/Proc) EC - SK - CaK - RoF (ATO2 in EC)

 

Scrapper     TW/ENA     1:23 (Degen/Melt Armor/Enflame/Proc) BM - FT - AoD - RA - FT - AoD - RA - FT - Char momentum drop CB - FT - AoD - RA - FT (ATO2 in FT)

 

Scrapper     EM/ENA     1:37 (Degen/Melt Armor/Enflame) TF - ET - RoF - BS (ATO2 in ET)

 

Scrapper     CLAWS/EA     1:39 (Degen/Enflame/Melt Armor/Proc) FU - Focus - Slash - Char - FU - Focus - Slash - Shockwave (ATO2 in FU)

 

The TW/ENA is the one I tested the most. I can't figure out why that combo is doing THAT well. And that's with a build useful for anything. All the ENA builds are TBH, but that one really shocked me for how consistent it was at doing DPS. Now with that said, TW and KAT absolutely need the FF procs in FT/AoD and SD/GD to do their best. It's still wild to me they are that much of a smoke show.

 

I ran into @Ratch_ while testing, and he proposed giving Char a shot. That was a good idea. Very good. He was dropping pylons in 30 some odd seconds. Was silly.

 

 

I'm curious how you got Char to recharge fast enough to put it in a chain.

[SomeGuy]

11 hours ago, BrandX said:

 

I'm curious how you got Char to recharge fast enough to put it in a chain.

 

 

With the TW? Easy really. Claws/Kat? Same rotation as a Snipe. Can't do it in an EM chain without including Energy Punch to keep things seamless. I need to go back and edit my MA build to include Char in the chain (to see if it works TBH). But my builds have a lot of recharge. Close to perma hasten. And I always go Ageless, so thats another 10% at the WEAKEST point of the buff. And I park my dudes in Cim for another 10% recharge. I do Cim over Oro cause I want the +res to all also.

 

Oh. I don't do Char every rotation. That needs clarification. The Kat/Claws chain are good examples of that. Kat? Just another GC in it's place. Claws? Shockwave instead. And I've found Shockwave being better ST DPS then Strike. And it's way more versatile.

Edited February 6 by SomeGuy

[Frosticus]

Don't forget Dominators!

Fire/fire/mace

 

No: insps/amps/temps/click accos/lore

35 seconds

 

[Sovera]

3 hours ago, Frosticus said:

Don't forget Dominators!

Fire/fire/mace

 

No: insps/amps/temps/click accos/lore

35 seconds

 

 

My Tankers doing it in 4 minutes (without -res):

 

o_o;

[Frosticus]

Don't forget dominators part 2

 

Illusion/thorny/mace

 

No insps/amps/temps/click accos/lore

34 seconds

 

[nihilii]

I had no idea and now love that the old Barb Swipe animation went to alt Ripper. It's such a frantic look.

Edited February 19 by nihilii

[Lazarus]

That ripper alt animation in the new patch,..on test?

[Frosticus]

23 minutes ago, Lazarus said:

That ripper alt animation in the new patch,..on test?

Yes

[TheSpiritFox]

On 2/17/2024 at 11:34 PM, Frosticus said:

Don't forget dominators part 2

 

Illusion/thorny/mace

 

No insps/amps/temps/click accos/lore

34 seconds

 

Jesus fuck and I thought my Thugs/Traps was insane at 55 seconds. 

[BrandX]

Electric/Willpower/Soul Scrapper

 

All T4's: Assault Hybrid Core (off) - Degenerative Radial - Musculature Radial

 

Multiple Runs

Best 3:00 (340.86 DPS)

Worst: 3:24 (315.79 DPS)

 

I know I did a couple of runs with out hitting Lighting Rod, which has the +3% to Crit and not sure if that played a factor in it, as I recall hearing that ATO doesn't activate when you zone, until you use the power it's in, but I'm not 100% on that.

 

Hasten is just over 8 seconds from being perma.

 

CB > JL > CI > TS > MB > Repeat.  When Hasten was down, I threw in an extra CB.

 

Did one run with the Hybrid on and it took me to 2:45 (didn't use LR in zone on it, if that is a factor) but I believe I also screwed up on the attacks at one point.

 

I like Radial Alpha and Interface for normal content, so I will have to check to see how much it changes using the Cores (or at some point xfer to Test Server and just try it there).

 

Edit: And lastly...love how it tells you the time when you defeat them now 🙂

Edited February 29 by BrandX

[SomeGuy]

10 hours ago, BrandX said:

 I recall hearing that ATO doesn't activate when you zone, until you use the power it's in, but I'm not 100% on that.

 

Edit: And lastly...love how it tells you the time when you defeat them now 🙂

 

 

Same, I remember Uber telling me exactly that and it was followed up by a proverbial "shrug" of not sure if that's actually a thing.

 

And for real. That is such a seriously nice QOL. Very underrated. Not sure when they start counting though. I'm guessing once the frst tick of damage hits? I have no clue. I need to see if the training dummies do the same thing.

[BrandX]

2 hours ago, SomeGuy said:

 

 

Same, I remember Uber telling me exactly that and it was followed up by a proverbial "shrug" of not sure if that's actually a thing.

 

And for real. That is such a seriously nice QOL. Very underrated. Not sure when they start counting though. I'm guessing once the frst tick of damage hits? I have no clue. I need to see if the training dummies do the same thing.

 

I was timing it on stop watch, and it was about the same, only varying my the time I hit start and such I'm sure.

[EnjoyTheJourney]

Pretty sure it's when the pylon is first damaged that the time recording starts. It would be the simplest and most sensible thing to code.

 

Starting timing whenever somebody cast a self buff near a pylon would be harder to code and it would lead the noticeable measurement errors from time to time. 

Edit: On reflection, perhaps a debuff put onto the pylon could trigger the start of timing. "Doing something adverse to the well being of a pylon" would be a reasonable trigger for starting timing on a pylon defeat. Haven't been starting out with non-damaging debuffs, and so at least from experience I couldn't really say. 

Edited March 1 by EnjoyTheJourney

[Frosticus]

I think it is when it takes damage and restarts if you let it heal all the way back up. I guess that would give a slight advantage to things like Disruption arrow, or melt armor. But ideally the ease of creating videos and attaching builds allows others to see how applicable the run is. 

[StrikerFox]

Pylon runs have changed a lot over time. Before it was about a build's damage, survivbility and sustainability. Is the character survivable enough to solo a pylon? How fast can the pylon can be defeated? Is the damage/survival sustainable? That's why there were rules. No Lore Incarnate because Lore pets are only available 33% of the time. No Hybrid toggled on since it is only up 50% of the time. No inspira since a character may not have the desired inspira 100% of the time. No temp/accolade click powers as they have various up/down time.

It seems like everyone is hitting the pylon dummies. They do not fight back so no survivability is needed. Some peeps are using inspira/temp/accolade powers to help with acc/dam/rech/end which trivialize a build's sustainability. It's become all about burst damage. 

Why did we stop hitting the regular pylon? Just because it's level 54 now? I dusted off the StJ/SR Stalker and gave a 54 pylon a go. It's rougher but still doable. Does the level 54 pylon have a different dps calculation? I used the old "(38343.75/time)+127.8125=dps" formula.

Musculature Radial

Degenerative Core

Hybrid Assault - Off

No inspira

No temp powers

No click accolades

3m57s/237s/290dps

Significantly slower than my old 1m15s/75s/639dps pylon times but still has the same survivability/sustainability it had before. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SomeGuy]

2 hours ago, StrikerFox said:

Why did we stop hitting the regular pylon? Just because it's level 54 now?

 

"We" did?

Edited March 4 by SomeGuy

[nihilii]

2 hours ago, StrikerFox said:

Does the level 54 pylon have a different dps calculation?

 

It is +3 to you (levelshifted) so you deal 65% damage. Naively, I'd guess dividing your number by 0.65 would give you your normal DPS? We need the mathbrained to opine.

It also resists -RES better, so if your build relies on this you would see a greater change.

 

My brute goes from 2:50 on a dummy to 8:30 on a Pylon. That's 0.575 rather than 0.65, which would seem to make sense. She uses the Fury proc in Cross Punch, and Tar Patch.

 

Level 54 Pylons are quite sensible for practical gameplay evaluation. Most AVs we'll want to hit in the face are 54 these days. Maybe I will move in that direction myself - but it is also nice to get a less accurate number much faster.

 

[Frosticus]

@StrikerFox

even con pylons haven't been a test of survivability or sustainability since before the original live servers shut down. Those two measures stopped being tested when incarnates dramatically ramped up everyone's build strength. Since that time the rules you state have more or less still been followed, all that has ever been asked is that people disclose what they are doing (ie hybrid up/down). Pylons have always arbitrarily punished some AT's/builds by virtue of it spamming a high knockback aoe attack. That is not necessarily representative of what you typically face if you want to hunt high hp targets, but it is what it is.

 

as to running lvl 54s. Maybe it will become the norm. They just went live a week or so ago. I know I'm personally using them for most of my builds now. They do reintroduce the survivability and sustainability elements you highlight. But on that note, you had both your melee and ranged def toggles off; presumably to increase your sustainability, because it only (arbitrarily) attacks aoe. Is that something you'd normally do while running missions, or fighting a random AV, or is that just part of gaming pylons?

[StrikerFox]

1 hour ago, Frosticus said:

 

But on that note, you had both your melee and ranged def toggles off; presumably to increase your sustainability, because it only (arbitrarily) attacks aoe. Is that something you'd normally do while running missions, or fighting a random AV, or is that just part of gaming pylons?

 

No, I keep the melee/range defense, Sprint and Njnja Run on during regular gameplay. After defeating a target, picking the next, moving within range gives a second or 2 for endurance to bump up. Which is often when 1-2 shotting minions and 3-4 shotting lieuts.

 

That's not something my build gets during pylon testing, especially knowing the pylon time will take considerably longer due to being level 54. At one point I had higher recovery but opted for less as recovery was adequate for pylon testing (Pre-i27.7), but overkill for normal play.

 

1 hour ago, nihilii said:

It also resists -RES better, so if your build relies on this you would see a greater change.

 

The build slots Achilles' and Fury -res procs. I didn't check to see how often they activated or how effective they were when they did.

 

2 hours ago, SomeGuy said:

"We" did?

 

Seems like it. Seen a lot of dummy pylon kills but no lvl 54 pylon kills. A few vague mentions about how pylon times are 3-4x worse, but no info beyond that.

[ArticulateT]

Doing some playing around with a build for the sake of DPS and survivability. Experimented with a good rotation, one which I find somewhat sustainable when dedicating entirely to DPS, but might get tricky depending on enemy types.

 

Scrapper Energy Melee/Fiery Aura/Fire Mastery

 

Assault Radial (equipped, not activate)

Diamagnetic Interface

Agility Alpha

 

Vs Training Pylon

 

Opening Move: Melt Armor

 

Rotation:

 

Total Focus > Energy Transfer > Ring of Fire > Bone Smasher > Gap Filler

 

The Gap filler, by default is Energy Punch which will give just enough wiggle room to let Total Focus recharge. If, however, Total Focus crit and I have multiple stacks of Energy focus, that gap filler will be Energy Transfer instead. Alternatively, if I need to hit any of my buffs such as refreshing Melt Armor, Build Up, Fiery Embrace, Hasten or Consume, they take the same spot.

 

Result:

Average over 3 times: 2 minutes 23 Seconds with a DPS of 398.

Best Time: 2 minutes 20 seconds with a DPS of 402

 

This same set up on a regular, proper pylon then took me about 15 minutes give or take as the rotation became less consistent in favour of survivability, but it was doable. 

 

I then did a run where I went full bore with incarnate powers, in this case adding Polar Lights Radial pets and Ageless. This resulted in a time of 1 minute 19 seconds for 613 DPS

 

I went with Diamagnetic over Reactive purely for additional survivability, as a guarantee that the enemy has a to-hit debuff means I'm being hit less, and the debuff to their regen is helping my dps from a different direction.