Why Sentinel vs Blaster?

[Without_Pause]

For me, I prefer the risk/reward of playing a blaster. The idea I could simply grab Hover and hang out above using ranged attacks while having legit defense is boring. They also removed the damage auras and seemingly most of anything interesting from melee range, see Chilling Embrace, from the defense sets. Kind of like driving a 4-cylinder Porsche.

 

/dark is a close as I can see as being interesting in melee, but alas, no damage aura.

[natewest1987]

On 9/10/2019 at 10:23 AM, oldskool said:

I doubt there would be a conclusion to a debate on Why Sentinel over Blaster.  The question on its face feels like a zero sum game.  As if the reason for wanting to play a Sentinel in the light of having access to Blasters must mean that a Sentinel is better than a Blaster.  Perhaps, that logic isn't applicable to everyone in this thread, but it would be naive to believe this isn't a thought process of others. 

Anyway, Sentinels can farm if that is what you want to do with it.  That is not the same as saying they are more efficient than other archetypes.  If you're just looking for an excuse to make one, then what is holding you back?  Is it a sense of making something that isn't optimized to complete a map in 4 minutes but instead completes it in 6 minutes?  If that's the case, then make a Blaster or a Brute or a Scrapper. 

(Edit) Hmm, that last bit sounds harsher than I intend it.  Blasters/Scrappers have higher damage caps (duh, I know), but that matters if all you're doing it crushing Red inspirations in a Farm to complete it as fast as possible.  That means either of those are going to do more damage than a Sentinel.  Either choice of Blaster/Scrapper is going to be a risk vs reward scenario vs building a far safer Brute that is very efficient in relation to the investment.  You probably already know this, but I feel it is worth stating purely due to the nature I already expressed in the very question of "Why Sentinel over Blaster".  The follow-up of "for farming" can honestly expand this to "Why Sentinel over [Blaster/Scrapper/Brute/Tanker/Defender/Corruptor/VEAT/HEAT/etc...]".  That's just a giant circular argument waiting to happen when the real answer is just "do what you enjoy".  There are times where I don't feel like logging in on my purpose built farmer and just run farm maps on whatever character I happen to be playing.  Want to farm on a TA/Archery Defender?  Do it.  It can be done.  It just won't be fast.  Same can be said for a lot Sentinel builds.


 

lol all good mate.   bored to tears with all my other farmers... and i go through them pretty quickly.   /shrug.    So was considering it to try something new.    But probably won't

Edited September 12, 2019 by natewest1987

[Hopeling]

On 9/10/2019 at 7:23 AM, oldskool said:

Blasters/Scrappers have higher damage caps (duh, I know)

They don't, actually! Sentinels cap at 500% too. Trust me, I'm a huge inspiration whore, hence my avatar 😉

[oldskool]

7 hours ago, Hopeling said:

They don't, actually! Sentinels cap at 500% too. Trust me, I'm a huge inspiration whore, hence my avatar 😉

Funny, I actually know that and the intent isn't appropriately expressed since the term itself is wrong!  So if you swapped out the reference to damage caps and subbed in damage multiplier then what comes after that snippet statement is what I intended.  Also, the other following sentence should have had "at the damage cap" after Sentinel.  So it was a call out on the higher damage multipliers of those  two ATs having more meaning when chucking reds at the damage cap vs the Sentinel.  

I just messed up typing it (what's new there? lol).  Fire is still hot, and I'm still a goober.  

Edited September 13, 2019 by oldskool

[BrandX]

On 9/5/2019 at 3:40 PM, Knottewe said:

Opportunity is terrible as a class feature, ignore it. Unless the T1 in your primary is better than the T2 I would just take the t2. You'll end up with better powers and better sustain.

 

People seem to forget that mobs have a finite amount of hit points. You don't get bonus xp for extra really totally killing them (or arresting if your video game morals don't allow murder)

 

Unfortunately, we have decided to judge the damage we do by killing an immovable object that is unlike anything we kill (or arrest, see above) in game. It really has no bearing on how different ATs actually play. In real play sentinels are fine, although if they redid opportunity I would not complain.

 

CoX is great because there are very few absolutely wrong answers when it comes to murdering (or arresting, see above) huge swaths of villains (or heros), but people like me get to agonize over squeezing just a little more out of a spec. Maybe a good blaster might make his team finish ITF 5 minutes faster than your sentinel, but ultimately very few people actually care about those 5 minutes.

 

Really, you came here to ask why and the real question is why not. Play what you enjoy and if you enjoy the game you'll have 1 of everything eventually anyway. 

 

I'm going to have to disagree.

 

The unmovable object is just a way to find out a number, which helps people go "Will I even have the damage to take on an AV solo?"  😛

 

Now, surviving one it does not.

[Crysis]

Topics like this never cease to confuse me.

 

Within all AT’s there are situational advantages that favor one play style vs one mob vs a different play style against a different mob.  None of the challenge in this game is unachievable with any AT given enough enhancements, inspirations, buffs/debuffs and/or damage.  Maybe it’s faster/more efficient with one particular AT vs another but since no AT is locked out to anyone at this stage I tend to view AT differences as difficulty settings and/or purely subjective preferences.

 

I love dual pistols for the animations and flair.  It’s utterly wasteful for DPS calculations but give me a toned cowgirl with a trench coat flapping during Bullet Rain and I don’t care about DPS or whether or not I’m the star on the team.  I care about looking cool while killing stuff.  When I want to be the star on the team I have other toons I can bring out.  Blaster vs Sentinel vs Corrupter vs Dominator vs Defender.  All (primarily) ranged toons with different adaptive approaches to same goal.

 

The new version of Blasters are ungodly compared to the old Live versions.  Sentinels are interesting and personally I think they represent a good v1 of a new AT.  Let’s hope we see more development on them but for now, if I want a Regen Blaster they are the choice.

 

Better can be defined beyond pylon tests. And ultimately it’s the subjective version of Better that matters most until/unless you feel the need for comparison of my happiness to yours.  As long as we both are happy with choices, doesn’t matter.

[earthaddy]

It never ceases to confuse me why topics like this never cease to confuse some people.

 

As someone who hasn't played every set in the game, I appreciate hearing about sets other people like and why they like them. I like reading about the pros and cons. I like to read the discussion when one person doesn't like a particular set or AT, but someone else does. I don't take anyone's word as the only answer. But I get a lot out of discussions like these. Some threads like these inspire me to try a set or AT I haven't tried before.

Edited September 18, 2019 by earthaddy

[kiLLaBiyte]

On 9/5/2019 at 1:02 PM, oldskool said:

Its a bit better than that.  Its the Dominator scale (0.95).

Opportunity -

 

All attacks impose a minor resistance and defense debuff (about 5%).  This does not stack per attack but can stack per Sentinel. 

Sentinels have a 3rd meter called "Opportunity" and it works in some ways very similar to Domination on Dominators.  All of your attacks fuel the Opportunity meter.  When the meter reaches 90 out of 100 then your Tier 1 and Tier 2 attacks will gain a circle around them.  The Tier 1 attack triggers "Offensive Opportunity" and the Tier 2 triggers "Defensive Opportunity".   You'll have to land a successful hit with either of these attacks to trigger their specific mode and it will fill the meter completely and hold it there for 15 seconds.  Everything below lasts for that 15 second duration.  These modes are not intended to stack but some claim to have done it (probably a bug).

Both versions of "Opportunity" always impose a 20% resistance debuff on a single target.  This appears as a giant target under a single foe (the color of this matches whatever your power is colored - so these modes can be different colors if you want).  

Offensive Opportunity adds minor energy damage per attack and this is regardless of target.  So you gain the buff even against enemies without the giant target under them. 

Defensive Opportunity adds minor health and endurance return per attack regardless of target. 

In a nut shell, that is it.

Awesome information!!! Thanks for including the actual values too!!

 

So...would this mean, that once Opportunity is activated, that the Sentinel basically has around a +25% damage bonus against the single target that they are attacking?

 

That would be Opportunity stacked with their inherent +5% resistance debuff??

 

 

Thanks!!!

[Midnight Blue Mage]

On 9/12/2019 at 9:53 AM, Without_Pause said:

The idea I could simply grab Hover and hang out above using ranged attacks while having legit defense is boring

Interestingly, I am in the exact opposite camp; I love the idea of being a (mostly) stationary airborne tank/battleship that is raining ordinance upon the battlefield while dodging or bearing the brunt of a massive anti-air barrage. I think Sentinel achieves that pretty well, so I happen to really like them, but I am happy to hear a different perspective on the matter :]

Edited October 1, 2019 by Midnight Blue Mage

[Chalkarts]

5 hours ago, Midnight Blue Mage said:

Interestingly, I am in the exact opposite camp; I love the idea of being a (mostly) stationary airborne tank/battleship that is raining ordinance upon the battlefield while dodging or bearing the brunt of a massive anti-air barrage. I think Sentinel achieves that pretty well, so I happen to really like them, but I am happy to hear a different perspective on the matter :]

Someone equated Sentinels with Iron Man in another thread.

The Scene in the canyon, in the first film,  where he's floating above blasting the weapons below is what my mind went to.  

Now I can't picture sentinels any other way.

[Rathulfr]

6 hours ago, Midnight Blue Mage said:

Interestingly, I am in the exact opposite camp; I love the idea of being a (mostly) stationary airborne tank/battleship that is raining ordinance upon the battlefield while dodging or bearing the brunt of a massive anti-air barrage. I think Sentinel achieves that pretty well, so I happen to really like them, but I am happy to hear a different perspective on the matter :]

+1 Amen from me on this.  It's why I still love my Sentinel, even though I've moved on to playing a fairly tanky Blaster since then.  My Blaster is almost as durable as my Sentinel, but his damage is significantly superior.  It's a lot easier to make a tanky Blaster than a blasty Sentinel: that's why I wish they'd buff Sentinel damage a bit more.

Edited October 1, 2019 by Rathulfr

[SmalltalkJava]

10 hours ago, Chalkarts said:

Someone equated Sentinels with Iron Man in another thread.

The Scene in the canyon, in the first film,  where he's floating above blasting the weapons below is what my mind went to.  

Now I can't picture sentinels any other way.

Yes yes yes.   Iron Man and War Machine are my prototypical vision of sentinels.    

[kiLLaBiyte]

How would a Fire/Fire/Fire Sentinel stack up in this equation?

 

Molten Embrace, the +damage toggle from the Fire secondary grants +10% damage plus a burn proc (the burn proc could also be included into the total "+dmg boost" that it adds really right...?). I wonder what that adds to your overall damage chain by 50 with a proper pylon build? Only wondering since it's adding "sustained" damage, which could also be coupled with Assault + set bonuses.

 

Has anyone ever checked this? I'm currently rolling on a low level (like mid 20's) Fire/Fire Sentinel right now, and his damage feels consistent and pretty decent (and comparable to my same level fire blaster especially when Opportunity is up!). Though I know this can change drastically by level 50 with IO's/Incarnates/etc.

 

Any of our wiser posters above have any thoughts?? Thanks!

 

*sorry, newly coming back to the game and trying to get my feet wet. This topic helped me get back up to speed on quite a few things.

Edited October 2, 2019 by kiLLaBiyte

[nihilii]

I'd expect Fire/Fire to hold either the top spot or second place with Fire/Bio as the highest ST damage Sentinel build, at least against immobile targets. Burn lets you slot an Arma proc and a Fury of Glad -res proc, which should boost ST damage quite nicely.

Presumably, you'd run something like... Burn > Blaze > Char > Cremate > Blaze > Blazing Blast > Burn > Blaze > Flares > Cremate > Blaze > Blazing Blast, I guess? (It's really twice the same attack chain with Flares replacing Char in the second run, as to trigger Opportunity and because Char overslotted with procs takes too long to recharge).

Edit: I'm assuming the patch fixing Blazing Blast would be live by the time we test this. 😛

 

Edited October 2, 2019 by nihilii

[kiLLaBiyte]

1 hour ago, nihilii said:

I'd expect Fire/Fire to hold either the top spot or second place with Fire/Bio as the highest ST damage Sentinel build, at least against immobile targets. Burn lets you slot an Arma proc and a Fury of Glad -res proc, which should boost ST damage quite nicely.

Presumably, you'd run something like... Burn > Blaze > Char > Cremate > Blaze > Blazing Blast > Burn > Blaze > Flares > Cremate > Blaze > Blazing Blast, I guess? (It's really twice the same attack chain with Flares replacing Char in the second run, as to trigger Opportunity and because Char overslotted with procs takes too long to recharge).

Edit: I'm assuming the patch fixing Blazing Blast would be live by the time we test this. 😛

 

Oooh awesome information!! Thanks!!!

 

And yea, the build so far, even in the low levels seems pretty good on damage actually, especially once I start rotating solid chains that involve Offensive Opportunity! My same level Fire/Fire blaster (probably not the best secondary choice...but I wanted to keep them comparable to each other for later) seems to burst faster in general, but if things don't immediately die I feel like I'm hopping around more by the skin of my teeth trying to clean up the leftovers, whereas my Sentinel takes a little bit off the "alpha" while building up to some good numbers on Hard Targets, but not worrying as much about the few things that survive.

 

Anywho, very low level right now, but really starting to look promising to me! Was thinking one of you monster number crunchers and chain builders could make this build amazing 🙂

 

Quick EDIT!!!

One thing I did notice about my Sentinel over my Blaster though, was that while I have Opportunity up on a Hard Target, as a team we absolutely melt that target in REALLY short order. So that's one solid benefit that I can see to the Sentinel and what he can bring to the team. Also, I can kind of pull some crazy stunts off like my Regen Scrapper used to pull off back in the day when there is the occasional "team wipe" and I'm the last member standing - I then go into proc'ing Defensive Opportunity and utilizing my secondary skills combined with some of my hefty damage output to finish cleaning up the room, survive all the mobs, and come out on top all solo!! The total "IH Regen Scrapper" feeling from waaayyyy back in the day!!! Hahaha 😄

Edited October 2, 2019 by kiLLaBiyte

[CaptTastic]

It’s funny because I personally look at the blaster v sentinel question and ask why you’d play a blaster when you could be a sentinel! 
 

It’s all subjective based on what you value the most in a toon. For me, sacrificing some damage to gain a lot more security and survivability is a trade worth making. For those who value maximum damage more than me, I expect it’s not. 
 

For some, the high risk high reward playstyle of a blaster is thrilling and exciting, and you lose that with a sentinel. For me, though, it’s stressful, so I go with the lower risk, lower reward Sentinel. 
 

I don’t personally think it’s a fair or relevant comparison either as Sentinel is more a utility class than a damage one I think. One that can perform a number of roles, provide a second line of defence in a team and look after itself etc. It’s a jack of all trades. As tanks become less common, think Sentinels become more useful as they can stay in a fight so long. 
 

But if all you want is damage, and there’s nothing wrong with that, a blaster is better, of course it is. But that’s not me so I love the Sentinel class like no other. 

Edited April 23, 2020 by CaptTastic

[therealtitanman]

Sentinel : mez protected, last man stand for range dps, decent damage

Blaster: thrilling, better damage, fast respond.

 

i like both, lean more toward sentinel for free mez.

[BrandX]

I see people go "I prefer the risk of a blaster" as if players aren't building for softcap defenses and everything else on a Blaster.

 

Not many in my experience going, "Just building a real glass cannon!"

[Rathulfr]

7 minutes ago, BrandX said:

I see people go "I prefer the risk of a blaster" as if players aren't building for softcap defenses and everything else on a Blaster.

 

Not many in my experience going, "Just building a real glass cannon!"

The main reason I go for soft-capping defenses on my Blasters is to address the mez issue.  I don't mind taking damage, but I absolutely despise being mezzed.  Building for defense means avoiding attacks, including mezzes.  And that's also one of the reasons I like playing Sentinels, too.

 

But I still prefer Blasters over Sentinels because -- even though I'm not being mezzed -- Sentinels just take forever to kill stuff*.  The trade-off of safety for damage is just too much for me, so I'll take a little more risk if it means I can kill stuff in 1, 2, or 3 (max) shots.  But that's just me: YMMV.

 

(*: except for @nihilii, who seems to be "The DPS Whisperer" of Sentinels 😄)

[Frostweaver]

 30 minutes ago, Rathulfr said:

 

 

(*: except for @nihilii, who seems to be "The DPS Whisperer" of Sentinels 😄)

 

 

what do you mean DPS whisperer?

I have a 50 energy/will sentinel that I just cannot play, because i will stand there for 3 minutes trying to beat a yellow boss (-1)

no danger, just... tiresome. Like playing a defender bubble/nrg but even slower.

Edited April 28, 2020 by Frostweaver

[Rathulfr]

14 minutes ago, Frostweaver said:

what do you mean DPS whisperer?

I have a 50 energy/will sentinel that I just cannot play, because i will stand there for 3 minutes trying to beat a yellow boss (-1)

no danger, just... tiresome. Like playing a defender bubble/nrg but even slower.

@nihilii has posted some impressive pylon numbers on his Sentinels.  Although it seems to me he does this by using the Psionic Mastery epic pool in spite of his Sentinel primary set (not in addition to).  But I'm no expert on the subject: I don't math good.  I play for the feels, not for formulae on a spreadsheet.  And Sentinels just feel weak to me, even though I really do love them (honestly!).  But my opinion might be a minority one.

[nihilii]

3 hours ago, Rathulfr said:

Although it seems to me he does this by using the Psionic Mastery epic pool in spite of his Sentinel primary set (not in addition to).

The disproportionate power of /psi is undeniable right now. At the same time, that's strictly ST and even there it won't represent 50% of your damage output, regardless of primary.

So "in spite of" or "in addition to"? YMMV, but semantically I think the primary accounting for >50% damage justifies "in addition to". 

 

I use 50% as the halfway point, but in practice for many primaries the significance of /psi won't be as pronounced. i.e. Fire Blast is capable of dealing 300+ DPS without touching epics, probably 350+ DPS with other epics, and will barely touch 400 DPS with /psi. So /psi is probably worth a fourth of the ST damage here, and the comparative advantage over other epics is even less.

For a lower damaging primary like Energy, it's likely /psi will account for more damage. There's two sides of the coin here. On one hand yes, that makes it more of a /psi character and less of a nrj/ character. On the other hand, having access to good attacks in epic pools means no primary is left behind for decent ST damage at the upper end.

We all ought to follow the stuff @oldskool does, as he plays many many Sentinels including perceived underpowered ones and pushes them to great numbers.

A good example here:

Taking Dual Pistols and Assault Rifle, SR as a secondary (no offense boost save for +rech through Quickness), with only Musculature T2 for Incarnate, no /psi epic, attack chains using the primary in full, and reaching 200+ DPS on both characters.

 

This will not top min/max charts using uber powersets, but forget about yellow bosses in 3 minutes - 200 DPS will let you solo a level 50 AV in roughly that amount of time. 200 DPS is enough damage output to solo the ITF, with some effort. And oldskool's builds make no "theme" sacrifice.

Edited April 28, 2020 by nihilii

[CaptTastic]

I suppose like all ATs there are very different experiences depending upon the different sets involved. A Titan Weapons scrapper will, I suspect, have a very different experience of the AT to the one a Staff Fighting or Kinetic Melee will. So it’s difficult to make sweeping AT-wide conclusions. 
 

I have fully IO’d out two Sentinels at this point, and they feel completely different. 
 

Energy/Invul: Supremely tough, never feeling in any danger (except to Psi). Capped typed defence, capped S/L resist, good other resists. Good recharge but feels slower than it is due to longer animations. Pretty underwhelming damage but feels very much in control. 
 

Fire/SR: Supreme recharge, meaning blaze available every 2.something seconds, and quick animations make it feel brilliantly busy with far quicker kill times. Capped positional defence but no real resists so always feels vulnerable to taking a big hit. Great damage output but feels like he’s in a fight. 
 

Same AT but that’s really where the similarities end as they feel completely different to play, and neither tell you what a Sentinel actually is, because what any AT is is what we make of it. That Incredible variation, even within the same AT is, in my opinion, a huge part of what makes CoH so special. 
 

Edit: I also have an Elec/Rad Sentinel at 50 but since he has no IO build yet I don’t feel right comparing him to the other two. Sonic/Bio and Psi/SR are next on my list of Sentinels to try out. 

Edited April 28, 2020 by CaptTastic

[oldskool]

46 minutes ago, CaptTastic said:

I suppose like all ATs there are very different experiences depending upon the different sets involved. So it’s difficult to make sweeping AT-wide conclusions. 

These two statements nail it.  

48 minutes ago, CaptTastic said:

Energy/Invul:  Capped typed defence, capped S/L resist, good other resists.  Pretty underwhelming damage but feels very much in control. 

I think the two underlined comments are related.  I can only make assumptions with how you approached the build, but I suspect you lower some mitigation to gain some damage.  Energy Blast does struggle with damage when constructed with just full sets and ED capping damage alone.  However, with some proc abuse it can get better.  Probably not Fire good, but definitely better. 

[CaptTastic]

32 minutes ago, oldskool said:

These two statements nail it.  

I think the two underlined comments are related.  I can only make assumptions with how you approached the build, but I suspect you lower some mitigation to gain some damage.  Energy Blast does struggle with damage when constructed with just full sets and ED capping damage alone.  However, with some proc abuse it can get better.  Probably not Fire good, but definitely better. 

Definitely related, yes. I wanted to make something a bit more tanky and so it turned out. I must admit though, I thought by getting plenty of recharge and taking knockout blow from patron pool I could offset more of the damage compromises I made then I ultimately achieved, and I’ve still solo’d AVs with him, so he’s certainly no dud. There’s just something about him though that feels weak and underwhelming. 
 

He is what he was supposed to be though: A tanky, steady yet unspectacular sentinel, so I’ve no complaints. One day I’ll get round to Fire/Invul JUST to do a comparison! 

Edited April 28, 2020 by CaptTastic