Rudra

I don't recall saying anywhere on this thread that it would create "more players hoarding". So please don't add to my arguments for the sake of arguing against the addition. What I said was that we should not make it easier for players to hoard. That I am against making it easier for players to hoard. And that enabling players to make multiple bases that effectively share storage capacity for the sake of hoarding will negatively impact the market. Because now it would be a much simpler affair of moving assets between bases and accessing them on any single given character rather than making use of the auction house function. You don't agree with my stance on the auction house. I get that. However, adding things like "creating more players hoarding" or any other comment I did not say to my comments so you can argue against that extension is a bad faith argument. As far as the OP is concerned, the author wants to make it possible for a single given character to be part of multiple SGs for the purpose of being aware of the different activities said SGs may be running so the author can participate. That request can be achieved without linking bases to share storage capacity or making characters members of multiple SGs at the same time. And I have provided alternate suggestions to do what the author requested. Without having to deal with the increased storage without need for middle man character to facilitate transfers that making a character a member of multiple SGs would enable. That you or anyone else disagrees with why I oppose that is a matter of your respective opinions. Just like my opposition to enabling such a thing is a matter of my opinion. Hence my other comments stating that I believe multi-base shared storage as made possible by the game is something to be avoided. It is my belief that base storage should not be shared across coalitions or to non-SG/coalition members, for the reasons I have already stated. You don't have to agree with me. I even welcome your disagreement. However, we can disagree without it becoming yet another dragged out argument. Especially one that sees additions to someone's post as an argument that the person did not make.

Then while we agree on one aspect, we disagree on another.

Yes, players can already hoard things. That doesn't mean we should make doing so any easier than it already is. Edit: It's like that one request to simply have all missions be at a single door someone posted a while ago. Yes, we have Mission Teleporter and Team Transporter that will move us directly to the mission door, but why should we simply let players camp at a single door AE style to do game content? Well, players can already build all the SG bases they want and store as much as they want, but why should we make doing so any easier than it already is?

To counter this, I typically do the same, except I move to the exit for the map or level (depending on the situation) and wait there. The boss can't spawn behind me there, and once I start attacking the boss, (s)he stops running and fights me until I defeat him/her. Just have to make sure to move forward away from the exit when you can see the boss to prevent the escape for being too close to the escape point.

While the market is indeed seeded, the set costs for those seeded items is so high, we will never hit those seeded items until players stop dropping things into the market.

Isn't that what I said? *double checks* Arsenal Assault lets you use the butt of the assault rifle as a melee weapon. Technically that counts. But yeah, no dedicated melee weapon assault sets. Yep.

None of these skip leveling. They give your character additional tools, but you still have to level up to get your sets' next powers and enhancement slots. Does not skip the game. It lets you get to the game's current mission for your character faster, but you are still playing the game. Just saving travel time. Does not skip or ignore any parts of the game. It makes the game easier to play. No it doesn't. Using Null the Gull to change alignments still has the 7 day wait period to unlock the new alignment's power. I've swapped using Null frequently and always still had to wait for the alignment power. So, nope, not skipped/ignored. I have on several occasions elected to simply agree to disagree. Mostly on things I don't feel that strongly about. I have also been making a conscientious effort to be less argumentative on the forums. Though you seem dead set on making sure that goes out the window. The fact that you don't think the game economy is a sufficiently good argument in your book is not my concern. It is still a valid argument no matter how much you disagree. You stated you disagreed with me. I agreed we disagreed. We could have just left it at that. You don't like my justification for base storage being linked as proposed by not the OP or the author of this thread do not be done? That's fine. We have different opinions on the matter. So if you feel as strongly as you seem to about letting base storage be linked across coalitions, then how about you give a reason why that change should be done rather than argue that you don't like the reason I gave for not doing it?

All pets including MMs please.

Specifically melee weapons? As in the set is just melee weapons? No, their secondaries are Assault sets, so a mix of melee and ranged. Now if you are asking about them having melee weapons rather than just melee attacks? Yes. For instance, Earth Assault has its hammers. (Edit: If you want manufactured melee weapons? Aside from the gun from Arsenal Assault, not yet.)

THIS!!!!! Oh so very much this! GW isn't a powerhouse that can survive on her own in that mission, and being bubbled into only affecting self so you're forced to sit there and watch her die in an awful hurry? Is so infuriating.

You want to continue? Okay. START vendors don't give us the means to bypass or ignore any parts of the game. What the START vendors provide are formerly prestige powers, non-power pool travels (that were already available back on Live), some supplemental powers like charges of summons, some vanity powers, and the ability to increase the rate at which we level at the cost of non-mission completion reward inf'. You can't camp at a START vendor and just level up there or craft there or store there as a part of using START. So that comparison fails. Null the Gull has a power that turns you into a gull for a badge, lets you turn off being able to be affected by Group Fly because it prevents some powers from working, prevents some emotes from working, and there are players that simply don't want to be affected by it and the only way to do that was with a hidden power; lets you access other zones that have a theme but aren't available for doing missions in or defeating mobs in, lets you know what AVs you are still missing for a badge, and generally provides options that could not be incorporated into the options menu. And as the Live devs stated, they wished they could remove Null the Gull, but he was the only way they could provide some of the services that were asked for. He does not level you up, does not provide you with storage options, doesn't craft anything for you, or do anything that would bypass or ignore the game. So that comparison fails. (Edit: Right, Null the Gull also lets players simply change to their desired alignment. And yes, that can be argued as bypassing/ignoring the game, but it mostly enables playing the game with friends on the other side or by expediting access to said other side to play its content, or even let players start their characters as vigilantes or rogues rather than have to wait until level 20 to have the correct alignment for their character. That's the only part of Null the Gull that works in your favor for this discussion.) AE was intended to give players the ability to create new stories for other players to experience (and hopefully) enjoy. What it is most commonly used for however is farming. Yes, playing through AE lets players bypass/ignore the game. They can sit all day at an AE hub and level from 1 to 50+3 while earning the inf' needed to buy their enhancements and still get enhancement, recipe, and salvage drops just like they are playing the game outside of AE. However, there are no mission completion rewards for using AE and as far as I am aware, the xp and inf' rewards available from AE are reduced as compared to dev provided content. Farming is very much allowed. The live devs found out the hard way there was no way to stop farming. So farm away to your heart's content if you want. However, it is not encouraged by providing means to simplify the farming process such as by having infinite mobs spawn on a map so that a single map can be used indefinitely, increasing the xp/inf' rates of the AE mobs, or granting mission completion rewards; all of which has been requested on these forums. Because while it is fine if players choose to use AE instead of the dev provided content? The game is not being adjusted to encourage or simplify it. So AE is the only relevant comparison you provided, and even it supports my stance. If players want to build bases simply for storage? They can. More power to them. As someone who loves building bases, I understand the joy they (hopefully) feel putting it all together. If players want to link their SGs in coalitions? They can. The limit should probably be increased, but we can have personal bases and group bases at the same time already like how the OP is asking for by use of coalitions. (What s the Justice League after all? They are a coalition of super heroes that have a shared facility for coordinated group actions. While still having a personal base/lair from which they more routinely operate out of as applicable to the character.) If players want to make storage bases and link them for storage? Go right ahead. They already can. However, just like with AE farming, I don't think doing so should be encouraged such as by making base storage across coalitions open to all coalition members or for "public" use (since the bases would likely be given access codes and not shared with the public but rather be used for ease of storage and transfer). Rather, if players don't want to make use of the market? If they want to use as many bases as they possibly can for their personal use? Go right ahead, but I firmly do not believe the game should be changed to make it any easier than it already is. Does that clarify my position? Can we simply disagree now? Or is there need for further clarification that you will insist is petty because you don't agree with it?

Interpret it however you want. I don't care. However, I don't think requests to enable players to bypass/ignore parts of the game should be supported. You don't agree with me? That's fine. We disagree.

As I said, I believe we should not make it easier to hoard. If players want to hoard? Go for it. Play the way you want. Just like if players want to run farms? Go for it. Play the way you want. That does not mean the game should actively try to support it though. The market exists for us to place things we have no room to store and/or don't need/want so that others that may need/want it can get it. If the current effort players make to hoard is too much for them? Then there is the market ready and waiting. Otherwise, go on, hoard whatever you want. I don't support making it easier though.

3 attacks, 3 summons, 2 summon upgrades, and 1 other themed for set.

Illusionists and Master Illusionists don't seem to have a click power phase, they seem to have a toggle that can't maintain effect. I've seen them phase while in the middle of attacking someone for instance, and powers can't be activated while we are attacking anything. So best not to view their phasing as them activating a power, but as their power cycling as a constantly applied toggle. (Edit: Especially since the durations for the up time and down time don't change. And they are constantly phasing and de-phasing at a constant rate even if they are not yet triggered for combat.)

Also off topic, but in one of the roadrunner cartoons, at the end after the final ACME device failed, the cartoon zooms in to the ACME label where it says in fine print it is a roadrunner company. ACME works fine in non-roadrunner cartoons where it shows up, it just specifically seems to fail for coyotes.

Or at least didn't have timers or use maps where the mobs can disappear. (I am never going to get over the Freakshow kill all mission with the timer in the Arachnos layer cake base that had a Freakshow standing on a pipe at the very top of the layer cake room. I finished that 90 minute timed mission with less than 10 seconds left on the timer.)

Great! So with all the storage we already have, we don't need more. Thanks for the support.

So you think we were forced to play back on Live? Everyone had a taskmaster or what not ensuring we paid our monthly subscription fees (before they went away) and sat at our desks and toiled away? The game went free to play back on Live. Well before the sunset. It still had micro-transactions for various new releases, but the game was very much free. The zone travelling wasn't a time sink. The devs put a lot of effort into the zones. And our missions would send us across the zones and to other zones so we could see the zones and enjoy what the devs provided us rather than just all camp in a tiny area cycling missions like many do in AE now. An "outdoor" mission other than street sweeping isn't going to have the player/team go to another zone. There would be no point as the mission objectives won't be available in that zone. There is a big difference between instanced "outdoor" missions and sending players to another zone. I actually agree with you on this. Not a fan of kill alls either. Too often they occur on maps where there are hidden nooks and crannies with wandering mobs that like to wander there and effectively disappear beyond map objects. This was changed to the current set up with the advent of Stalkers. I don't think you're going to get this changed. Enemies get access to the same powers we do. ... except for Moment of Glory because mobs retained the old version rather than the new version players have.... And we can still defeat mobs with MoG. If they are Held, they can't use MoG. If you have a high enough Accuracy, you can still hit them through MoG. (Use lots of yellows or use large yellows.) And I think psionic attacks ignore it, but I'm not sure. (Edit again: They also can't use MoG if they are stunned. And they typically can't use MoG while recovering from KB, KD, or KU until after they finish getting back on their feet.) This is a know your enemies and tactics thing, not a time sink thing. Edit yet again: Options for dealing with Moment of Glory and Personal Force Field: 1) Hold them. A held mob cannot activate any powers. 2) Stun them. A stunned mob cannot activate any powers. 3) Knock them. A knocked mob cannot activate any powers until after they finish recovering from the knock attack. (Does not help if they triggered before the knock effect is applied, as they will still animate activating the power while being knocked.) 4) Blast through it. Save your most damaging single target attack until just before the target's health drops low enough to trigger MoG/PFF, then zero their health with it before they can trigger the power. 5) DoT them. MoG and PFF don't stop already applied DoTs from applying their damage. Layer enough of them on the target and watch the target's health continue its inevitable trek to 0. 6) Overcome it. This only applies to MoG. However, with enough accuracy boosting, the target's MoG means nothing. 7) Bypass it. This also only applies to MoG and may not be true, but I have been informed psionic attacks ignore MoG. 8 ) Let them wear themselves out while dealing with the next spawn(s). Huh? Your statement is self-conflicting. Don't give work arounds but give work arounds if given nicely?

I don't remember the explanation for the exploit part, though I did call it an exploit in my post. The more storage capacity we have, the less we need to offload into the market to free up space in our limited storage. The market is there to help burn our inf' and provide resources players may need but weren't favored by RNGesus to get to be able to get, so I don't support anything that further weakens the game market/economy.

If players are already willing to make multiple SGs for storage as has already been shown in multiple discussions about having multi-base storage access on the other threads asking for the exact same thing, then the whole excessively granular becomes excessive to manage argument falls apart. Players are already willing to do this even with the complication of only being able to be in one SG per character at a time. Edit: And just how complicated/difficult to manage do you really think it would be? You just treat the SGs like they are database entry names. Purple Danger Rangers, so the purples go here. Rare Hunters, so the rare salvage goes here. Fisticuffers, so non-purple melee sets go here. So on and so forth. Edit again: But then they have to make the bases for all of that? Pop into new sorting SG base, add a single large room, throw your storage bins into said large room, and done. Maybe even throw a letter near groups for name of set sorting for the bins.

Which was part of my response. And just like I don't believe we should make it easier to farm, I don't believe we should make it easier for us to hoard. Edit: And the OP isn't about being able to hoard. So we can achieve what the author wants without making it easier for players to make use of multiple personal SGs and their affiliated bases to have infinite storage.

The more bases involved, the greater the effect. With 1 base, we're capped at... 20? storage items. (Been a while, so not sure about the limit.) Giving coalition shared access or single character multi-SG access increases that limit per base. So now you can have a dedicated storage base for each separate grouping of enhancements, sets, salvage types, recipe types, and more. So let's say I establish the Rudra Very Rare SG, and I only have purple sets stored in that base for all my alts, the Rudra AoE SG, the Rudra Melee SG, and so on and so forth. And that is just for completed enhancement sets. Then I can add bases for specific rarities of salvage. Just go out and farm Ouroboros/AE for the relevant salvage and store them in the appropriate base. Players would never need bother with AE for storage, offloading salvage/recipes/enhancements, or even getting what they need for what they want to make again. We would have effectively infinite storage capacity. Bear in mind, players can already go out and do all the same farming to get what they need/want, but we run up against the limit for how much our personal bases can hold. We can create more personal SGs to increase that, but we are slowed down by either having to e-mail ourselves each item individually or by having a second account whose purpose is to take on the items desired for transfer, transferring each of those items either individually by drag and drop or through the trade window, then changing characters to resume the process to complete the transfer. A slow and annoying process whereas simply hitting up the AH is much simpler and keeps the game economy moving. Or let the proposed let characters be in multiple SGs at once or let coalitions share each other's storage access and never bother with the AH again.

That still enables the same exploit we are trying to avoid.

Was it your or your friend's mission? I'm not sure, but I believe only the mission owner gets the badge. There are multiple badges that work that way.