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Toxic dart needs -regen just imo

Ok bud.

I don't think It's bad game design, I just think It's more of a oversight in a lot of places. Hurricane (granted thats repel) Is a strong -tohit to back up its repel. Force bubble is gigantic and can pin enemies to the wall reliably (though sometimes buggy) and while I don't much like that power either it has a set niche. Knockback in a lot of powers doesn't add much while subtracting for many. If energy blast for example had higher damage to support the idea that you're hitting a guy so hard he flys through the air then it'd be a different story. Gale, while hilarious has the same issue. I'd like to see gale also have a stun or something personally. Idk about you, but if i got hit with a giant gust of wind randomly inside a warehouse I'd be pretty stunned.

Listen, I'm not gonna go back and forth with you about this after this final post. My initial post where i fixed the guys grand standing was more of a joke than an attempt for dialogue. You can tell by his post similar to the furry that they under no circumstance will ever admit fault to KB. It's a pointless endless fight even if you admit there can be positives to KB. To make the claim everyone should have to teach people on a day to day basis how to use knockback is asinine. It's self explanatory and extremely easy to figure out, coh is not that hard. Could i have been nicer to the guy who freaked out someone said a bad word about knockback? Probably, but see my above statement and their reactions to anyone daring to imply knockback is a negative. I thought i was plenty constructive and decently nice to the furry, who started off by being insulting and finished by being insulting (his final freakout was deleted by GM's) If you're going to try and high horse someone for being insulting or not constructive, you should probably at least try to maintain that position on the thread you're doing it in instead of supporting and egging it on when it's on your side.

True, even I wouldn't kick someone for it

You're right and to be honest, I'm sorry @oedipus_tex for derailing your thread. Knock back is a spicy subject. It's like saying Titan weapons is boring. 😉

"Get over it." "It's everyone elses fault not mine" "You should just learn to play better" Neat dude.

You're just skirting around what I'm saying by only saying there is positive. You're either naive or intentionally misleading. I never said It's a pure negative. Only that it's more negative than positive. We can disagree on that sure, but for you to sit here and say there is no negative to KB is objectively false.

Unable to act for like 3-5 seconds? While now also knocked out of cones/patches/debuffs/aoes/pbaoes/potentially knocked off a high spot forcing a chase or a possible miss and backtrack in a defeat all, maybe even knocked through a wall and the map. Yeah 3-5 seconds is totally worth all of that being disrupted. That doesn't counter anything because you know what achieves the same thing? Knockdown.

Thats the joke. the furry thing. I see this a lot, when people defend knockback It's either 1. I position myself correctly! or 2. Why do you care? The answer isn't as complicated as it seems to be. A vast majority of people do not position themselves correctly. This is pretty much known even to those who take option 1. As for option 2, thats a list of excuses a mile long. Why do you care that I'm knocking away enemies at random? Well. It's not about speed, It's not about farming or herding or min/maxing. It's just a negative effect on the team created by a team member. When I'm saying its a negative, I don't mean "Knockback users suck" I mean It's literally a negative ability aimed at your own teams abilities. Cones/Aoes/Debuffs etc are all interupted by a single effect. Yes it slows it down but that isn't entirely the point. The worst offender is energy blast. It catches a lot of flak because it has to deal with knock back in every single ability. It maintains a negative effect in multiple powers but has no real advantage over the other sets. It doesn't do more damage to compensate for it nor does it have some outlier thing where it saps endurance or does -res. It literally just knocks people around. I hope this helps you understand a little better and instead of making random assumptions/excuses can see where I'm coming from on the negative thing.

how many people with a furry icon could there possibly be. Also that's a decently informed reply, I'm surprised you don't see how knock back is mostly a negative. Also your comment is a little out there as regardless of my opinion on it I've never called for knock back to be removed or changed. Never once have i implied there was even a bus to be driven. Only that knockback was a negative on teams more than it isn't.

This is fair. Though i'm not sure it needs revised exactly? I don't like it and i've seen a couple of people make a couple of good suggestions but i can't think of anything to do to it myself without just making everything as baby as possible and nobody wants that.

Aren't you the same guy who thinks rebalancing to IO's is a good thing? Yeah, i agree. This is why we don't let kids drive the bus.

I wrote out like a whole thing, but your post was so stupid i just would rather this thread die and i never have to see you again then respond to it. @Outrider_01 My only hope is you didn't respond to it before i edited it.

this is the best topic on this entire forum.

The problem is knocking them away at all. Scatter isn't great but knocking them back further wouldn't help either. People get annoyed because knockbackers just throw the mobs around and make people miss their AoE's and mess up cones. Not to mention knocking out of debuffs or other patch based powers.

I think increasing the knockback as (most) sets are now in any shape is a mistake. For every person who does do the correct thing and change their AOE/Cone to KD theres a lot who don't. Making an already hot issue worse is unwise.

so like champions teleport? champions had a cool teleport. I mean, it was like fly + phase shift but still.

I'm fine with that, you can only explain why knockback is more a negative than a positive so many times before you become a jaded self righteous jerk.

This seems to imply you want stronger knock back on already undesirable sets. This would probably be a bad thing. Knock back is a negative effect way more then it's a positive effect. Gonna have to be a strong no in my opinion. What i would like to see, and if done i wouldn't mind your suggestion, is things like energy blast that have knock back to be given a damage increase to reflect their negative modifier. While It's true you could just KB>KD the set, that's 9 slots used just to achieve it. Some things wouldn't need an increase in stat like Hurricane/Force bubble, but energy blast and gale for example should be beefed up to reflect their knockback. Before anyone freaks out, I love energy blast. It just doesn't do the best damage while also having to deal with knock back.

If you can't explain what you mean by effectively then don't toot your own horn about how cool you are.

I don't need to play with you to understand how knockback works. Even if you position yourself very specifically in every mob to use knockback "effectively" which again, could literally only mean knocking runners back into teams, you've now become extremely useless because you could have just been doing damage or applying a actually useful form of CC. Trying to use knockback effectively is just leeching with extra steps. If you'd like to explain what you mean by "Effectively" by all means go on

It's a relic of a coh that doesn't exist anymore. Don't pretend you're helping. Knocking enemies out of AOE's and breaking up mobs does nothing but slow it down. Even -if- you were using it to knock one or two runners back twords the mob, it'd still be better to just kill them. Every second you spend chasing runners to knock them back to mobs is seconds you don't spend just killing it. Stop pretending knockback isn't a negative and shouting at every post that tries to address it even in the slightest.

fixed it for you

oh nice, didn't know heroes even had one. makes sense they would but lol