Coyote

1: nerf IO set bonuses for Defense only. They're so much more valuable than other set bonuses except +Recharge for specific builds (perma-Dom, perma-PA, etc). 2: re-work mezzing so that it puts out debuffing while it's being stacked, but give PCs higher mag of mez protection as a base so that they actually get mezzed less. Or give them higher base mez Resistance so that they get mezzed for shorter durations. 3: re-consider having offensive toggles drop when mezzed.

I'm really unsure about how reasonable is the assumption that the system allows an "average tanker or scrapper" to solo at +4/x8 without breaking a sweat. Unless we're talking Council or other similar enemy groups that may not have too much debuffing. Otherwise, I'll claim that any melee character who is soloing at +4/x8 across a range of opponents including Cimerorians, Arachnos, Longbow, and Rularuu (to say nothing of Vanguard, Living Spells, or the Awakened)... is not an average character or player. So it seems more than a bit of an unfair argument to complain about Time Defenders without mez protection, and then compare them to max Incarnate melee characters with a well-above-average build... as if a max Incarnate Time Defender with Clarion can't do pretty well soloing. I do have squishies who run at +4/x8, usually against all content. It's not easy and it takes a good build, but it's not like you're taking a newly level 50 Scrapper with a decent but not top build against Arachnos at +4/x8 and doing it easily.

Yeah, I would also prefer going with mez Resistance from powers, especially common powers. The reason for putting them in the IO sets is that they're already there, and it would be easy to just multiply all of the relevant values by a factor of X. So it's an easier change to add to IO sets, but a better change to spread them through some pool powers.

1 and 2 seem good to me. 3 is okay, but I could also see just increasing the IO set bonuses for +Mez Resistance so you can get some decent Resistance from bonuses, and then with shortened mez durations and not having to re-toggle, things would be be too bad. Another option would be to find some Pool powers and try to sneak in mez resistance into them... Health already has some Resistance to Sleep, adding some more around some other powers could make this discussion a lot less ... let's say ... urgent for players of squishies.

That's kind of the point, I think... make mezzing something that affects all ATs, even if not as greatly, and then use that as a base to diminish the general prevalence of mezzing in the game (like adding +Resist(mez) to more powers). Right now there are a lot of ATs who just ignore the amount of incoming mezzing, and so it gets swept under the rug. I mean, do players who only play melee characters even know how long Malta Stun Grenades last for? I generally measure their duration in sandwiches (as in, how many can I make while the character is still Stunned).

That was my idea also. Use Immobs and Holds as -Def/-Res since you can't dodge, etc. Sleeps give a -Dam for a while after being Slept or if you're not completely Slept, etc. I've always thought it solved a problem pretty well, but needs a lot more discussion and planning than as an aside in another type of thread. But, it was always popular enough with a lot of knowledgeable posters that I wondered why it kept getting mentioned by multiple people in discussions about mezzing, others liked it, then... it just faded away.

Bots are far stronger than Mercs right now. I get the idea that Mercs will get a balance check, but... who knows how soon that'll happen.' Thugs may also fit well enough, and they're one of the two strongest primaries (the other is Demons, which doesn't seem to fit well). Bots are pretty good, but not nearly as good as Thugs. Yes, that does mean Mercs are really bad 😉

No, the Tier 9 will be like Flurry.

While it's true that exemplaring usually means for the team, and buffs and heals are important on a team... low-level MMs are very strong due to the pets. They might be the strongest AT before the 20s, and I would really want to focus on pets at those levels. It's a tough call, but I'd definitely push Power of the Phoenix and probably Teleport down to where the summons are, and get those at much earlier levels.

Oh, one more interesting thing about soloing lower-level TFs... most people consider AVs as practically not worth debuffing because they resist them so much. But the AV resistance to debuffs drops by 1% per level below 50 (it's 85% at 50)... so at 35, it's down to 70%. So the debuffs are twice as strong against a level 35 AV as against a level 50. Most importantly, this is for -Regen, so the -500% debuffs that become -75% at level 50, will completely shut down the regen of a level 35 AV. Another interesting debuff is -ToHit... not really worth it at level 50, but 30% of Hurricane's -44% is about -13% to hit. That's better than any defensive toggle available to squishies. Dark Miasma and Dark Affinity users can do even worse with -ToHit. Heck, at Positron levels, Dr Vahzilok is very much nerfed by some of these -ToHit powers. And the measly -100% from a double-stacked Twilight Grasp is about -45% to him, while a level 50 AV sneers at it.

Good points about the Manticore TF, I also pulled the Countess away from Hopkins. The Admiral Sutter TF is a nightmare to solo, you want to pull one of the Durays away from the other, but it's pretty hard. Apex and Tin Mage were both a lot easier (pulling Bobcat is possible, though you have to pull her 3 times, once each to have her call for the big robots and then again to finish her off). Can the Diabolique trial be soloed? How about the Summer Block Buster? I haven't yet tried either of those. One mission that's way harder than most of the TF missions is the one featuring the Jade Spider... still haven't succeeded at that one, though I think it may just be a matter of figuring out the cone angle for the Psy Scream... stay out of it and let it focus on the PA, and win. Get into it, and get disintegrated fast.

Thank you. I'm glad to see this put forth from the Dev team also. I agree with basically everything here, and also with the unfortunate fact that while the Power Pools (including Origin Pools) could use some rebalancing... Dev time may not be available for it. I hope that if there is time, they will get reasonable consideration about being rebalanced, and then RoP will just be a good power available after taking two other decent-to-good powers, and then the opportunity cost for it won't be as high and it won't have to be so good in order to get picked. But until then, there are a lot of Ninjas and Mercs to be fixed, and a lot of Regeneration characters to be nerfed, and I'm sure that'll take time.

If you could see all the hidden posts you'd disagree 🙃 Huh. I hope I missed them, because otherwise my toxic filter needs changing. I saw disagreement, but like @Mezmera, I thought it was civil enough. On topic... I love the addition to Singularity. It's a (currently) unique mechanism, and can be quite useful for many characters. However, as already stated by others, it can also be detrimental to OTHER characters. Changing other powers in Gravity could be a lot of work, and this is a unique feature that I'd like to see kept in the Gravity Control set... would it be possible to make the draw radius smaller? If you can fight mobs at a reasonable distance without Singy starting to pull them, then you can still contribute normally while Singy is behind you and not mucking up positioning. And if this ability is actually useful to you, you can always close in and bring Singy into range of its new ability. I'd like to see other pools improved like Teleport was, to make choices better. That would include making other powers in Sorcery better so that RoP isn't the only draw in the pool... but I don't think this is the right update to discuss multiple power changes to multiple pools.

I think Controller Epics are generally very strong... /Ice is my favorite since it adds AoE that's normally lacking. /Psy adds the mez protection but isn't that great otherwise, /Mu brings a healing pet for secondaries that don't have healing and also a good AoE, /Earth has a bunch of excellent powers. I don't have a problem with the idea of "if mez protection is what you need the most and don't want to go Clarion, then go /Psy", because there are other strong pools that fit other builds better. I think that in general, Power Pools should be improved... there should be more reason to consider what pools you're taking in a build. I love how the Teleport pool became not only usable, but good for a few builds who really benefit from pulling mobs into a killzone. That kind of change that makes a pool desirable is a good change. But while I'd like to see pool powers improved in general, I'm really not understanding the idea of posting the same call to action on multiple boards... as @parabola said, it feels a bit like a call to grab torches and go rabble.

Vengeance alone is the reason why this won't ever happen. Especially on an AT that has Power Boost available as an Epic. By itself, Vengeance is easily perma-able 33% Defense with no holes, and knockdown protection. Add in Power Boost and you're soft-capped to all. Add in some IOs, Maneuvers, and some other pool defenses, and you're over 60% Defense. Oh, and it has a damage boost and enough +ToHit that you shouldn't need to slot Accuracy (except in the pet powers).

I'm also wondering why the argument is in the Controllers forum, who have access to Indomitable Will, and can AoE Control most spawns, and not in the Defender forum, who have no Epics with mez protection and depend far more on toggles as their main defense. I can see a Time/* Defender complaining that they get their toggle dropped every other fight. If a /Time Controller is getting their toggle dropped at the same rate, I'd have to wonder why they're spending so much time in melee for a -ToHit debuff rather than just controlling at a distance. I would think that Blasters, Defenders, and Corruptors are going to be impacted a lot worse by this chance than Controllers.

While I agree that RoP doesn't work the way the post implies it does (which it to allow a squishie to maintain its basic functionality), I'm arguing about the concept that a squishie's basic functionality includes mez protection as part of the build rather than as an add-on. And so for my argument, the RoP downtime is irrelevant, because my argument is only "squishies have a mez protection vulnerability, and that actually is part of their basic functionality". The post I was replying to would have been incorrect in any case, to imply that the change in RoP turns squishies from being able to maintain their basic functionality to being unable to maintain it, because as you say... RoP doesn't allow them to manage 100% uptime even with Melee Hybrid. But that's a side argument, my main argument is that the design of squishie ATs is that in most cases "they deal with mez by mezzing/debuffing, not by having protection against it". And the ones that have mez protection toggles are specifically outliers.

I would consider the idea that squishies get mezzed to be an inherent part of their basic functionality. There are ways to get around it and powersets that can handle it, but in general, squishies get mezzed and have to deal with it or plan on how to avoid it, not build so that they don't have to deal with it any more. I'm kind of on both sides of the argument for RoP... it's clearly an outlier for the kind of power that it is, and better than the T9s from armor sets. And usually outliers get either buffed or nerfed, depending on which side of the balance they are on. But in this case, considering how bad the metric is (armor T9s are generally terrible), I have to at least consider that maybe RoP is of the right strength, and the powers that are compared to it should be buffed instead. However, the argument that squishies should have a good way around being mezzed is not a winning argument for me. The non-armored characters have had to worry about being mezzed since Issue 1.

Savage, Claws, Titan Weapons, IMO. Maybe Rad also, though Rad is less "high AoE" than "convenient AoE". As @Sovera already said, Staff, Electric, and Spines all have a good amount of AoE attacks, but they're not of high quality. So they're better for leveling, but once attack chains tighten up and animation time is more important, they can't squeeze in more damage. That said, Electric isn't bad if paired with Fire or Shield or one of the armor secondaries where you can proc out a PBAoE so that you get a large opening burst from Lightning Rod plus another good AoE. It's not sustained AoE for farming, but for missions it's probably fine. Still, I'd take Electric only on Stalkers since their version is far better. Ice Melee is also surprisingly strong, with two pretty good AoEs, and War Mace and Dual Weapons are pretty good (Mace especially benefits from the Tanker improvements to AoE size), but only at high levels since they get attacks pretty late. Both of the last two are far better on Tankers, IMO, as they rely on cones and the AoE size changes really benefit them. They do good damage, though, and can take Force Feedback procs.

The first thing that comes to mind is that in incarnate content, due to the level shift, controls and debuffs are a lot more effective than in other high-level content. And due to the mobs having good debuffs and accuracy bonus, going on pure defensive stats is less effective. So I'd want a combination that puts out a good amount of mezzing and control in addition to defense. The second thing is... mez protection. Are you going to rely on Clarion, or need a build with mez protection? With Clarion, you can go with a debuff set that has a good -ToHit toggle and rely on it holding up. I'd look at the following: Dark/Sonic. AoE Fear and Sleep up every spawn to allow you to set up debuffs, great -ToHit debuffs, and some knockdowns. EA/Electric. EA is very strong defensively but allows you to get hit, which means you start getting debuffed... but between EA having an AoE -Endurance in one power and another through the pet, and /Ele having Short Circuit up every spawn (and Thunderous Blast every few), add in Mu epic so you get Power Sink, and you can drain large portions of the spawns pretty quickly, limiting incoming damage, mezzing, and debuffing. Time/Water. Time is strong defensively, Water adds knockdowns, more movement slows, and another self-heal.

I played on Siege Perilous so I can speak from the experience of someone from a open-PvP with full looting: it can be fun. It can also suck a lot of different type of fun from the game. A lot of players will not be interested in the forced challenge kind of fun, and therefore will move out. This was true in UO where there were no level differences... it would be far more true in CoH where one character literally cannot beat another character who goes AFK. Or who can get 2-shot before being able to activate an action. Now add in having your Merits or stuff looted after dying from two shots that arrived at the same time so you couldn't react... can you say "ragequit"? Conceptually, this idea has some minor benefits, but they are hugely outweighed by the drawbacks. I'm always surprised when this is seriously suggested as something that would be good for the game.

Hey, what do you think of Parabellum Time?

One thing that I wonder about is this.... Everyone who is interested in them has run multiples of the common TFs, Hami Raids, MSR, etc. How many have formed a team and run the First Ward/Night Ward arc? Have fun on that with a +4/x8 difficulty, hehe. Each zone's arcs is bigger than a TF, but you could run just a couple of the contacts and have fun. There are some other arcs that could be interesting... Mr G or Provost Marchand, Number 6, etc. Fighting the arc that ends in the Jade Spider would probably also be cool. Only catch is that it may not be so easy to get merits for everyone since everyone would need to have the contacts to get the arcs and thus the merits... but if merits are the goal, then just run one of the repeated TFs. If seeing new content is the goal, frankly, I've seen all of the above TFs advertised on LFG channel... not seen those difficult story arcs advertised much if at all.

I would but only due to putting two -Res procs into it. Otherwise, not sure about that. But with two -Res procs it's not a bad addition to a single-target chain... low effectiveness on itself but it boosts damage from following attacks. And it adds AoE that's helpful when in a large spawn... you don't have to reposition to hit multiple targets with it, and with 2+ targets it's pretty good. For fun I added the Overwhelming Force Dam/KD IO into it, and knocking down multiple targets that are bunched up is always fun. Note: I think the chance to activate Achilles Heel is about 30%, so that's an average of 6% -Res from one of the IOs. If Gladiator's Fury has the same numbers, then 12% -Res isn't a bad average value.

Same, though I've gotten good use of Mystic Flight / Translocation on squishies who are Immobilized, and on both squishies and melees who are greatly Slowed, to get out of patches or reposition at better than a slow-motion crawl.