Electrical Blast is bad, don't use it

[DrBasics]

What if they did something like "The lower the endurance, the higher the chance for your electrical attacks to chain and jump to one other target doing (25%) damage of the attack". That would fix electric I think.

[MrCuddles]

It's a sentinel build but elec/elec/elec sentinels can absolutely neuter any size group of enemies with power sink, short circuit, electric fences, lightning field, ball lightning. They can't run away, they can't ever attack.

[Luigrein]

Things may have changed, but I remember on live my Elec/Ice blaster put some emdmod on his nuke and it basically let him share his end crash with any surviving enemies. Open with thunderous blast, kill all the minions and maybe lts (don’t remember), then staring contest with the bosses as we all have no blue bar and no recovery.

[Galaxy Brain]

57 minutes ago, Luigrein said:

Things may have changed, but I remember on live my Elec/Ice blaster put some emdmod on his nuke and it basically let him share his end crash with any surviving enemies. Open with thunderous blast, kill all the minions and maybe lts (don’t remember), then staring contest with the bosses as we all have no blue bar and no recovery.

I mean sure, but at that point for a blaster the nuke's primary function is sort of wasted 😕

 

Sure you drained all the end (you wont drain *your* end anymore) but they are still alive. Slotting for damage kills all but bosses and you end up overall safer since there are less things able to attack you once they get 1 tic of end back.

[Luigrein]

1 hour ago, Galaxy Brain said:

I mean sure, but at that point for a blaster the nuke's primary function is sort of wasted 😕

 

Sure you drained all the end (you wont drain *your* end anymore) but they are still alive. Slotting for damage kills all but bosses and you end up overall safer since there are less things able to attack you once they get 1 tic of end back.

I believe (it’s been a while, I don’t have my mids files from live any more) I frankenslotted so it would be good for both damage and end drain. I’m sure it meant lower values on acc and/or recharge, of which acc at least would be offset by aim/buildup. I don’t remember being disappointed in it’s damage. (The blaster as a whole maybe yes, but not the t9)

 

I’m not trying to say this is optimal, and I rather agree with end drain being an all or nothing secondary effect. It’s barely noticeable if at all until you floor their blue bar and recovery when it suddenly turns really good. Just saying that it’s possible to get some mileage out of it even with just elec blast. Worth the cost is up to you.

[Golden Azrael]

Elec is frustrating.  I think it is the lack of T4 single target hitter with high damage that hurts it most.  Seems to miss a lot too.  I'd say that Sentinel version of the blast set makes more sense due to installing the T4 high blast single target in and moving Short Circuit to later in the build.  It plays far better because of that.

 

With the added sturdiness of Sentinels, it buys you time for ball of lightning, Lightning field and short circuit time to drain a mob and with any chain hold a mob will be helpless as you pick them off.

 

End drain is satisfying.  eg.  Power Sink means you have a constant top up of end even minute or sooner.  

 

I've played elec tanks, scrappers, stalkers, dominators (my favourite) and elec blasters.  And I have rolled an Elec sentinel which I have taken out the gates.  

 

Loads of fun on my elec tank.  I had that paired with Mace.  Scrapper version was elec/elec.  Loved Lightning Rod and Thunder Strike.  Stalkers.  Just the surprise attacks Palpatine style.  Dominator?  The pinnacle of challenge.  End drain.  control.  Blast.  Scrapper blapping.  It really does have it all plus a 'God button' in Domination!  For me?  The best inherent in the game.

 

Elec has a lot to like.  The drain, the crackle, the variety of power and utility (you really ought to try teh elec/elec domi.  And it has the elec patron too...) but it's not the hardest hitting set and can seem a bit grind-y tap, tap...tap....tap....and missy....

 

But I took Assault and Tactics and that helped a lot.  And powersink?  🙂  Once you get the Elec shield you can sit in with a mob and drain and hold them with near impunity.  You can before...but just more so.  It's not all about damage.  Sometimes it's about interest.  And elec dominators have it in abundance.  The blaster elec/elec.  To me?  It's the elec blaster elec blast isn't.  I think the elec domi has a nice blend of melee and blast.  

 

It's down to that T4, I'd say.  Maybe that needs looking at and the dam' numbers?  Maybe the more end drain you do the more -res you do?  Ie they find it hard to fight back because they're increasingly tired?  Don't see that being too hard to implement.  The self buff of elec blaster is combat based but it doesn't give elec the kick up the back side the ice and energy ones do.  Doesn't fix the couple of flaws it has elsewhere.  Fire, likewise suffers similar problems as you don't seem to get your mitigation early like you do on eg. Ice.

 

 

 

Azrael.

[Lamb Chop]

On 9/28/2019 at 12:44 AM, Frostweaver said:

what electric needs is actual damage reduction to go with that end drain and -recovery. If every attack caused 7% -dam, (no stacking with itself) the 'weakness' secondary effect might have some real utility against something other than minions (which are easily wiped)

I like this suggestion. I would even be happy with -Dam replacing all of the secondary effects. On the flip side, if electric blast had -Dam, that would break the electricity theme across all ATs since the other Electric sets would still be recovery/end mod oriented (worth noting here that Radiation already does this with the contaminated effect being on some sets and not others). If that -Dam effect were present on Sentinel Electric Blast, I'd be rolling an Elec/Bio or /Regen right now. And if it were on Electric Melee?? I shudder to think of the repercussions of that sort of change. 

Electric Assault seems fine without a T4 blast, especially if you're Mind or Gravity and have a single target option there. It's worth noting that Zapp can kinda fill the role of a T4 now that we have instant in-combat snipes.

Edited October 11, 2019 by Lamb Chop

[Galaxy Brain]

Elec Assault is a different beast than Elec Blast.

 

Honestly I think at this point I would be fine if we just had attacks that could chain, a faster SC animation, and Voltaic Sentinel getting a boost in some way (duration? faster fire rate / more damage? less cast time?)

 

[GetRidOfWires]

I think Voltaic Sentinel ought to have a different approach. It would be interesting if it had an enhanceable Taunt, or if it gave some Mez protection or ranged defense, or if it increased the damage of your other Elec blasts while out.

[Kurrent]

Mained Elec/Energy blaster for 8.5 years.  I think I'm familiar enough with the Elec Blast powerset.

 

Making endurance drain work isn't for everyone.  It takes commitment, good slotting, and a dedication to bottoming out their endurance.  But it CAN be useful in PvE.  Now, that said, is it going to be worthwhile against an AV?  Almost certainly not.  I've managed to drop some AVs endurance, but not enough to be significant.  Holding them, now, is a different matter.  Holds are doable against AVs.  But we're not talking about that, we're talking about endurance drain.

 

Where is end drain useful in PvE?  Crey/Paragon Protectors, to name one.  You can easily solo Protectors with just Short Circuit and your basic attacks.  Did it many times in Crey's Folly in particular.   Once you've wiped our their end, no annoying Unstoppables or Moments of Glory to drag out the fight.  Just about any boss and quite a few Elite Bosses can be drained dry, and even if you only get them to bottom out for a blip, that's enough to drop some toggles and let you lock them down with Tesla Cage and Shocking Bolt (from Elec Mastery pool).

 

If you want to real effectiveness for End Drain, you need to double or triple slot End Mod enhancements in Short Circuit, because that's your workhorse for end drain, PLUS you need to slot at least one End Mod enhancement in EACH of your main three Elec Blast attack powers (Charged Bolts, Lightning Bolt, Ball Lightning).  One was all I ever used in those three, and it worked great (I generally slotted Acc, Dmg, Dmg, End Reduction, End Mod, Dmg) for my enhancement in most of my attack powers for Elec Blast).  I also put an End Mod enhance in my Voltaic Sentinel.  Once you do this, you'll start to see your end drain having an effect on lieutenants and bosses (minions will drop before you bottom out their endurance).

 

K

Edited October 16, 2019 by Kurrent
removed last sentence, since it detracted from what I was trying to say.

[Parabola]

19 hours ago, Kurrent said:

I personally think Elec Blast works just fine

 

Yeah, my Elec/Mental who I I've recently run to 50 agrees with you. The snipe change has been huge in sorting out the single target attack issue elec had and as blasters we generally have really good options in the secondary to fill out attack chains. Frankenslotting short circuit works wonders - I have 3 efficacy adaptors and 3 from a pbaoe damage set (I forget which) and it works fine as both an attack and a drain. It's an aggressive playstyle; I live (and die) in melee range firing off a chain of aoe and hoping drain psyche will keep me alive until the enemy are either dead or drained, it doesn't always work but it's really fun. On more than one occasion people have been impressed by what she can both survive and kill.

[Frostweaver]

22 hours ago, Kurrent said:

As a suggestion, maybe next time avoid a topic title like "Elec Blast is Bad" and try something less judgy like "I Can't Figure out How the End Drain in Elec Blast Works."  I personally think Elec Blast works just fine, because I made a career of it.

 

K

Your condescending tut-tutting is more offensive than cussing. The OP Stated it like He sees it, and a lot of people agree. The insinuation that people who 'don't get it' are 'too stupid to understand it' is noted.

 

End Drain is a trick that isn't worth the gigantic primary-role hit Blasters take for it. No one cares that you 'made it work' and 'can survive amazing things with it.' While you are surviving, every other blaster has made short work of it and has moved two or three spawns ahead. They are not 'too stupid to understand how end drain works'. They understand perfectly well. While you are busy slotting endmod in your attacks to make luts and minions brawl, they are slotting recharge, procs, +dam, -res, and def to help them survive and beat REAL challenges, like AV's, while they simply smash those luts and minions casually that you are so proud of end draining. Electric is bad ON BLASTERS, and it needs some serious dev attention. Especially since other sets that get electric, like melees, controllers, and dominators, are VERY GOOD SETS.

You can shove your 'less judgy' concern trolling. This isn't mother Jones or Xojane.
 

Edited October 14, 2019 by Frostweaver

[Bossk_Hogg]

On 10/13/2019 at 8:45 AM, Kurrent said:

Mained Elec/Energy blaster for 8.5 years.  I think I'm familiar enough with the Elec Blast powerset.

 

Making endurance drain work isn't for everyone.  It takes commitment, good slotting, and a dedication to bottoming out their endurance.  But it CAN be useful in PvE.  Now, that said, is it going to be worthwhile against an AV?  Almost certainly not.  I've managed to drop some AVs endurance, but not enough to be significant.  Holding them, now, is a different matter.  Holds are doable against AVs.  But we're not talking about that, we're talking about endurance drain.

 

Where is end drain useful in PvE?  Crey/Paragon Protectors, to name one.  You can easily solo Protectors with just Short Circuit and your basic attacks.  Did it many times in Crey's Folly in particular.   Once you've wiped our their end, no annoying Unstoppables or Moments of Glory to drag out the fight.  Just about any boss and quite a few Elite Bosses can be drained dry, and even if you only get them to bottom out for a blip, that's enough to drop some toggles and let you lock them down with Tesla Cage and Shocking Bolt (from Elec Mastery pool).

 

If you want to real effectiveness for End Drain, you need to double or triple slot End Mod enhancements in Short Circuit, because that's your workhorse for end drain, PLUS you need to slot at least one End Mod enhancement in EACH of your main three Elec Blast attack powers (Charged Bolts, Lightning Bolt, Ball Lightning).  One was all I ever used in those three, and it worked great (I generally slotted Acc, Dmg, Dmg, End Reduction, End Mod, Dmg) for my enhancement in most of my attack powers for Elec Blast).  I also put an End Mod enhance in my Voltaic Sentinel.  Once you do this, you'll start to see your end drain having an effect on lieutenants and bosses (minions will drop before you bottom out their endurance). 

 

As a suggestion, maybe next time avoid a topic title like "Elec Blast is Bad" and try something less judgy like "I Can't Figure out How the End Drain in Elec Blast Works."  I personally think Elec Blast works just fine, because I made a career of it.

 

K

That isnt really impressive. Anyone with holds can solo paragon protectors no problem. Only faster, because the sets deal more damage. Elec blast is unarguably low damage. End drain does nothing until the mob is completely drained and hit with -recovery. Elec blast doesnt really have the power to do that with JUST the set, making it entirely dependent on the other set to really matter. Other debuffs at least have some impact from the moment they hit. It's not that people don't understand how end drain works, it's that it usually isn't worth the investment doubling down on a weak mechanic. 

 

Fixing electric blast is pretty easy.

1) Up Tesla Cage's damage

2) Add a second attack to Voltaic Sentinel

3) Put a stacking 6% recharge/end discount buff on each attack. At 5 stacks the next Short Circuit has an instant cast time and a power boosted end drain. 

Edited October 14, 2019 by Bossk_Hogg

[Mercurias]

I dunno. I’m sort of the opinion that it’s fine as it is. Not every Blast set is going to be Fire Blast.

 

i see most of a Blaster’s secondary effects as “Extras”, you know? You can slot to try to make it more effective, and you can certainly stack your Interface to double up on it (Like using Preemptive to help increase the end drain, or Diamagnetic with Dark Blast for extra -ToHit), but outside of a few specific powers, Electric Blast is mostly a blast set.

 

I always figured that its defining features (for blaster damage) were its ranged nuke, its hold, Short Circuit, Ball Lightning, and Voltaic Sentinel. I also thought it often benefited strongly from the Elec Secondary to round out its attacks, since it comes with a mix of ranged and melee.

 

Also from what I recall, for most of its existence on live didnt Thunderous Blast only eat half of your Endurance? Am I imagining that?

[Hopeling]

20 hours ago, Bossk_Hogg said:

3) Put a stacking 6% recharge/end discount buff on each attack. At 5 stacks the next Short Circuit has an instant cast time and a power boosted end drain.

That's actually a really neat idea. Lightning attacks already have the endurance-refund thing; just crank that up and maybe add the recharge bit. Lightning blasters in comics tend to be speedsters or power sources, so it's thematic. And it gives the set something cool of its own instead of a "boring" effect like straight extra damage.

[Seed22]

On 10/13/2019 at 8:45 AM, Kurrent said:

Mained Elec/Energy blaster for 8.5 years.  I think I'm familiar enough with the Elec Blast powerset.

 

Making endurance drain work isn't for everyone.  It takes commitment, good slotting, and a dedication to bottoming out their endurance.  But it CAN be useful in PvE.  Now, that said, is it going to be worthwhile against an AV?  Almost certainly not.  I've managed to drop some AVs endurance, but not enough to be significant.  Holding them, now, is a different matter.  Holds are doable against AVs.  But we're not talking about that, we're talking about endurance drain.

 

Where is end drain useful in PvE?  Crey/Paragon Protectors, to name one.  You can easily solo Protectors with just Short Circuit and your basic attacks.  Did it many times in Crey's Folly in particular.   Once you've wiped our their end, no annoying Unstoppables or Moments of Glory to drag out the fight.  Just about any boss and quite a few Elite Bosses can be drained dry, and even if you only get them to bottom out for a blip, that's enough to drop some toggles and let you lock them down with Tesla Cage and Shocking Bolt (from Elec Mastery pool).

 

If you want to real effectiveness for End Drain, you need to double or triple slot End Mod enhancements in Short Circuit, because that's your workhorse for end drain, PLUS you need to slot at least one End Mod enhancement in EACH of your main three Elec Blast attack powers (Charged Bolts, Lightning Bolt, Ball Lightning).  One was all I ever used in those three, and it worked great (I generally slotted Acc, Dmg, Dmg, End Reduction, End Mod, Dmg) for my enhancement in most of my attack powers for Elec Blast).  I also put an End Mod enhance in my Voltaic Sentinel.  Once you do this, you'll start to see your end drain having an effect on lieutenants and bosses (minions will drop before you bottom out their endurance). 

 

As a suggestion, maybe next time avoid a topic title like "Elec Blast is Bad" and try something less judgy like "I Can't Figure out How the End Drain in Elec Blast Works."  I personally think Elec Blast works just fine, because I made a career of it.

 

K

Well that's nice. How much you wanna bet my Plant/Savage will kill those mobs you work so hard to drain before you even get off a single Short Circuit

[Kurrent]

Wow, so much hostility. 

 

I'm sorry that I offended anyone, seriously.  I wasn't trolling, and I don't appreciate being called that when I was trying to share some of what I learned over 8+ years of playing the powerset in discussion in this thread.  I'm also not trying to brag or "tut-tut," as it was put.  I'll go right back and excise that last bit, since it seems to have offended people.  That wasn't my intention, and it seems like it detracted from what I was trying to say.

 

I have no need to engage in or respond to posturing on a forum when the whole point of Homecoming is to give us back something we loved.  My DPS and mob kill rate were just fine, as the people I played with over the years can attest.  I was trying to suggest a way that Elec Blast's end drain CAN be made more useful in some situations.  That's all.  Maybe what I've learned will help someone who reads this.  If you don't like Elec Blast for this or other reasons, that's fine too.  We're all entitled to our opinions, and we can express them in a civil manner without having to put down or insult others.

 

 

 

K

Edited October 16, 2019 by Kurrent
clarity

[Frostweaver]

Sure. and the REST of us are trying to get electric buffed so that it's DPS output is not more than 20% below that of it's closest competitor. The fact that you don't mind sentinel-level damage and can 'work around it' in exchange for a secondary trick that only works on minions and luts is not really relevant, since sentinels can do it just fine as well. Sure, you love the mitigation, who doesn't? But mitigating damage after 10 seconds of a bunch of stuff you could KILL in half the time does not help you with an alpha strike, and it doesn't help you deal with threats at 'average' blaster speeds.

Look, I get it. You want to defend your favorite set. Hell, I used to defend /EA back on live for the same reason. But you know what? They BUFFED /EA with a badly-needed heal. Are you REALLY going to complain if they make VS less useless or add a damage self-buff to short circuit?

Electric blast IS bad. So is /SR on Tanks and Brutes. But this is CoH. You can FORCE anything to work, any bad combination into doing the fairly undemanding content.

{end powerset discussion}

And the Hostility was because of your waltzing in here with the insulting and patronizing comment "As a suggestion, maybe next time avoid a topic title like "Elec Blast is Bad" and try something less judgy like "I Can't Figure out How the End Drain in Elec Blast Works.". I am not sure where you come from, but around here if you walked up to a farmer hanging a 'Trespassers will be killed by the Bull' sign and informed him that he should re-word it to say something less judgy like "I am too stupid to train my bull not to attack people" I am betting you would be missing a few teeth. You insulted everyone who agreed with the OP, including me... I play an /electric defender with POWER boost and agility radial, and know perfectly well how end drain works, as does pretty much everyone else who has commented thus far, and claiming our judgement is based on ignorance or foolishness is absolutely insulting.

The rest of your comment was fine, if a bit elitist. There are lots of people floating around who are utterly dismissive of other people's experience and fully convinced of their own genius and expertise. Mostly people just ignore their know-it-all posturing. As a life lesson, blatant and condescending hypocrisy tends to evoke hostility.

TL/DR version; when you insult people, don't be surprised if they insult you back for acting like a douche.

Edited October 16, 2019 by Frostweaver

[VV]

Well, THIS explains a lot! Wish I had known that before I leveled up my Elec/Atom blaster. But, at least now I know that her lackluster performance is not due to the fact that I suck. Guess it's time to re-roll. 

[Frostweaver]

Well, it is Possible you suck TOO, I have no idea, but Elec is lackluster no matter your skill level.

But hey, I will freely admit that my elec defender sucked atrociously until someone came along and helped me make a proc monster out of him. The important lessons I learned turned him from rat-scrapple into just a defender that was pure team relying exclusively on his primary... Not that bad a place to be, for a /time defender.
But my electric blaster was pretty unrecoverable. And while Blasters can certainly profit from being -res/-rech procced out, electric Blast ALSO suffers from having some of the worst proc options of any blaster set.
Heck, even putting a little knockdown in it's aoe's could benefit the set's proccing options enormously. Electric's options are... proc damage (which is nothing on a blaster) chance for end, or chance for stun. Fire has similarly awful slotting options, but fire makes up for it by it's disgusting damage. And how many random chances for +end do you really NEED?

Extra crowd control is great on a defender, controller, or someone who lives on mitigation, but for Blasters extra mitigation is a PERK, their best mitigation is killing things fast, and perks like mitigation need to be front-loaded and offer some real slotting benefit. That's why dark/, which is in the simlar range of electric damage-wise, is NOT a suck set.... because Dark offers MAJOR slotting options.

Not to mention that Electric traded it's big ST non-snipe for a crappy pet with exactly the SAME sucky slotting options as the rest of the set, offers no mitigation options EXCEPT end drain, and has, as it's secondary aoe's even MORE unproccable trash. A hold at T7 with almost no damage  where most sets get a big 130+ damage ranged attack or medium damage aoe control? I mean, sonic has some of the same tools, but it's -res trick makes you and your team smash through spawns like nobody's business. Ice get's one of the biggest ST attacks on any blaster as a HOLD at the level you get your Crappy VS, and even Psi's scramble thoughts is twice the damage and can be used as a mule for Razzle dazzle... which helps enormously for your defense numbers.

Edited October 17, 2019 by Frostweaver

[VV]

31 minutes ago, Frostweaver said:

Well, it is Possible you suck TOO, I have no idea, but Elec is lackluster no matter your skill level. 🙂

Ah true true. See, this is why I need a better powerset.

[Jeneki]

It was even more awesome before the blast set tier 1 and 2 powers were normalized.  They were both over two second long animations with lots of hand wiggling (the "talk to the hand" animation).  Electric Blast is fun and has cool looking snappy effects, so I'll take what I can get improvement-wise.

 

[Rejolt]

What if you got a free stun or sleep on targets hit with a drain while at 0 endurance?

 

0 end - sleep

0 end and floored recovery - stun

 

The - damage time idea could work too.

Edited October 17, 2019 by Rejolt

[DarknessEternal]

Blasters are for killing.

[Frostweaver]

agreed. Electric needs to be better at killing, not playing a 3rd rate controller.