New Computer Recommendation

[Clave Dark 5]

My rig's getting old and the hard drive might be starting to fail, so I need a new computer.  But I don't know enough to try and part one together like I did last time (which was only possible thanks to a coworker who's since moved on).  I found the specs for the CoH ultramode listed on the wiki, and obviously most machines I buy now will handily meet those, but on the other hand, looking at them, I have no idea what the usual mix of letters and numbers really means for some things, such at the video card.  Is a NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050 graphics better or worse than a NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1660 Ti?  Just how much, enough to matter, or not? 

 

Rather than get into those weeds, I was wondering if anyone could point me towards a decent pre-built tower that will take care of everything just fine.  And yes I realize that can be a tall order!  If it helps, CoH is the only gaming I do and also probably the only "intensive" computing as well; otherwise it's just streaming and maybe some light photoshopping.

[MrAxe]

Maybe look on the survey thread about the specs people have. A lot of them describe coh as running perfectly.

[Clave Dark 5]

I had no idea there was such a thing, I'll go look for it.

[Clave Dark 5]

Well that thread was a bit dispiriting, I saw a lot of folks on what I gather were fairly new computers having all sorts of oddball problems.  Like I should just blindfold myself and throw a dart and hope.

[Marine X]

This is what I have and I LOVE this thing, no longer available directly from Dell but is available thru Amazon.

 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07Q3G3B67/ref=psdc_13896597011_t1_B078e SF9Z1X

 

Dollar for Dollar it's a hard deal to beat for a gaming oriented PC without going deep into debt. I can run at full Ultra even in Heavily Populated areas. Mine only came with 8GB of ram so I ordered 8GB more when I bought it. Custom Builds are great but this thing is not much more than a regular desktop.

 

( mine also came with a DVD Drive which I use to watch movies some times, this one doesn't have an optical drive )

Edited October 18, 2019 by Marine X

[Frostbiter]

November is right around the corner. If you're willing to hold off on your purchase for a month you'll get some much better deals the week Thanksgiving with Black Friday and Cyber Monday sales.

[roleki]

@Frostbiter has the right of it; things about to get CHEAP soon, so if you can hold off at all, do that.  

 

As for divining what vidyacards are "good" - while not a perfect yardstick, Passmark's videocardbenchmark.net/high_end_gpus.html has a decent roundup of modern hardware ranked by performance numbers in Passmark's own suite of benchmarks. 

 

So like, if you go to that page and Ctrl+F to look for a vanilla 1050,  you'll see it scores a 4756; then look up the 1660 ti, and it gets an 11587 (more is better) for about 100.00 more.   Sure, there's probably some fudge around the edges, but its a pretty good bet the 1660ti is a better card.

 

From there - and this is the most important part - do some research on the 1660 ti (or whatever card you're thinking of) and other cards that have similar scores or price points.  Keep in mind that some retail systems are locked to that one OEM SKU, so, research the other system components too.  

[Abraxus]

The great thing about this game, in particular, is that it doesn't take a power house PC to run it with all the settings at max. 

 

I used to build my own PCs starting with an empty case, and working my way out from there.  However, there used to be a measurable advantage to that, which has now diminished to the point where it no longer justifies the time/effort of doing so.  These days, I buy an off the shelf mini-tower PC, and replace the power supply with something a little beefier than what they typically come with, and add a discreet video card (I'm an NVidia guy, but AMD is a fine choice these days too).  If you can swing making the hard drives SSD, then everything just works faster.  All fairly inexpensive as PCs go.

 

However, your other choice is to just buy a gaming PC with all of that already done.  That is usually a little more expensive, but all the work is done, and it just works right out of the box.  The other advantage would be that, it will work for other games/applications than just CoH, and do very well with them.  Dell, and Acer both make very nice gaming rigs (Alien, and Predator are the tags for them I believe).  For reference, one of my sons has a Predator, and it is pretty awesome.  My other son bought himself a gaming rig from a more boutique company that had more specialized parts.  More expensive, but even more awesome.  I can't recall the name at the moment, but if you are interested, I could find out.  Needless to say, both their rigs beat the heck out of mine.  But, mine still does what I need it to do, so it's fine.  Especially, since CoH is all I play, or even want to play, anyway. 😎

[Seigmoraig]

Here ia a quick rundown of that the Nvidia video card numbers mean:

GTX 1050ti

GTX = "performance" series, the lower powered cards (that can still game somewhat in older games or well optimized games at lower settings) are named GT and have product numbers lower that 50 (ex GT 1030)
10 = the series number, all cards in the 10 series will run off the same architecture. The 10 series' architecture is named "Pascal". These number will increment with each new generation of cards. Nvidia has kinda ditched their less confusing series numbering with the new Turing architecture. The cards with Ray Tracing (next gen lighting support) will be the 20 (GTX 2060) series and the Turing cards without Ray Tracing are the 16 series (GTX 1660)
50 = This is the number that designated the different models within each series. Typically 50 (GTX 1050) is the entry point into the "performance" line of cards and 80 (GTX 1080) being the high end cards.

ti = means "Titanium" it designates a more powerful variant within a model. A 1050ti is more powerful than a 1050. Also a 1050ti is almost equivalent to a 1060. On the high end a 1080ti is significantly more powerful (and expensive) than a 1080.

What does this all mean ?
Typically you want to get the latest series of cards because the new architectures are more powerful and power efficient for a similar price point. If I were to buy a new card today, I would buy into the 16 series because they offer the best value for $$$. Ray tracing is a nice dream that will come true in the coming years but as it stands very little games make use of this technology as of date which makes me hesitant to get a 20 series card.

What to get ?
If you want an entry level card that will game just fine in 1080p resolution at 60 fps get a 1650ti
If you want to game at 1080p resolution at 144fps, get a 1660ti
If you want to game at 4k resolution at 30fps get a 2070
If you want to game at 4k resolution at 60fps get a 2080
If you want to game at 4k resolution at 144 fps you will need TWO 2080 cards in SLI which is extremely expensive

These are just general recommendations, a lot will be dependant on what kind of RAM and CPU you have in your machine and max/ultra settings are different performance wise for every game. League of Legends is a lot easier to max out than Metro Exodus for example.

If all you do is CoH and regular internets and office work, go for the 1650ti.


Here's a nice looking prebuilt computer
https://www.newegg.com/p/3D5-000B-000K9

Edited October 18, 2019 by Seigmoraig

[Hyperstrike]

4 hours ago, Clave Dark 5 said:

My rig's getting old and the hard drive might be starting to fail, so I need a new computer.  But I don't know enough to try and part one together like I did last time (which was only possible thanks to a coworker who's since moved on).  I found the specs for the CoH ultramode listed on the wiki, and obviously most machines I buy now will handily meet those, but on the other hand, looking at them, I have no idea what the usual mix of letters and numbers really means for some things, such at the video card.  Is a NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050 graphics better or worse than a NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1660 Ti?  Just how much, enough to matter, or not? 

 

Rather than get into those weeds, I was wondering if anyone could point me towards a decent pre-built tower that will take care of everything just fine.  And yes I realize that can be a tall order!  If it helps, CoH is the only gaming I do and also probably the only "intensive" computing as well; otherwise it's just streaming and maybe some light photoshopping.

The 1050 is an high-entry level card from the previous generation of NVIDIA cards.

The 1660 is a mid-range card in NVIDIA's current generation of cards.
Their current generation has two branches:
GTX: Which is essentially a progression of their last generation.
RTX: Which is a new type of card with hardware built in for dynamic ray tracing.  Essentially this isn't REALLY anything more than a tech demo at this point, as the RTX stuff incurs some major performance penalties as-is.

The RTX cards are their highest performance cards.  2060, 2070 (which is mostly obviated by the 2060), and 2080.
The GTX card is an attempt to still deliver mainline gaming performance without the additional cost that RTX incurs.

In video gaming, 10% is "margin of error".  It's essentially the point at which you cannot reasonably tell the difference between two setups without actual benchmarking software/hardware).

While, on synthetic benchmarks a 2060 is CLEARLY superior to the 1660, in MOST (but not all) gaming are within margin of error.  And, even when it loses, for the most part the "losing" benchmark is still above 60 frames per second, and, often, above 100.

And the price difference between the 2060 and the 1660?  About 80-100 bucks.

If you're just looking for hard numbers between a 1660 and a 1050, you can find it here.

If you don't have the confidence to part one together and are looking at pre-built?

Look at Dell's G5 gaming series.  Pretty much all meat, no fat.

Recommend starting with their $719 "step up" from the base model.  It gives you an i5 processor with 6 cores, vs the i3 with 4.  Top speed is virtually the same.
If you're looking for improvements over this base system.

1: Step up from the base 1650 to the 1660 (+$50)
2: Step up from the base 1TB HD to the 512GB SSD plus a 1TB HD (+$50)  (Crazy pricing, as it's cheaper to get a dual-drive SSD+HDD than it is to just get the SSD.)
3: Just a suggestion, but maybe opt for at least a year of their Support+ (general support plus accidental damage) as well.  (+$100).

 

[Odhinn]

4 hours ago, Clave Dark 5 said:

...Is a NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050 graphics better or worse than a NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1660 Ti?  ...

Usually (there are a few exceptions) the higher number is the more powerful.

 

For the needs given anything as low as a Ryzen 5 3400G with integrated graphics should be more than sufficient for CoH and not be super expensive. This, of course changes if you are playing at higher resolutions like 4k.

[Clave Dark 5]

Woo!  I have stuff to look into now and some grasp on what I'm looking at.  Thanks for the detailed replies everyone!

[Call Me Awesome]

I'd take Hyper's suggestion if you aren't comfortable rolling your own.  Dell has a decent reputation and I've owned a few laptops over the years that have worked well.  Right now I'm playing a scratch built machine I put together a few years ago so most of the hardware is 2-3 generations old but high end for it's time and it'll likely serve me just fine for another 3 years until I look at upgrading it again.  The nice part is I tend to upgrade piecemeal instead of a brand new machine, I may replace a video card one year, then an SSD another, then possibly a motherboard/RAM/CPU at another time all while using the same case, PSU, drives and peripherals.  Oh, and also not needing to pay Microsoft the ransom on another copy of Windows.

 

Because I'm not currently looking at any upgrades I'm not up on the current state of the art; I usually research that pretty heavily before I plop down the cash and more or less ignore it until I need to upgrade again.

[Seigmoraig]

5 minutes ago, Call Me Awesome said:

Oh, and also not needing to pay Microsoft the ransom on another copy of Windows.

I also build my own PCs from scratch, have been doing it for the past 15 years. What I have found out a few years back is that you can get Windows 10 Pro licences on ebay for dirt cheap. I have been using these licences for my past 3 builds and have not run into a single problem using them. Everything activates correctly, no errors or anything,
I'm talking like under 5$ level of dirt cheap :
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Windows-10-Home-32-64bit-Genuine-Key-Product-key-Windows-10-Home-key/392445301215?hash=item5b5f9011df:g:ZCYAAOSwx7Jdi2-d

[SmalltalkJava]

I bought mine from cyberpower with 16 gigs of ram about 7 years ago.   Still running coh perfect on it. https://www.cyberpowerpc.com/

[Clave Dark 5]

Just now, SmalltalkJava said:

I bought mine from cyberpower with 16 gigs of ram about 7 years ago.   Still running coh perfect on it. https://www.cyberpowerpc.com/

That about describes mine.  It too runs just fine, but I'm worried about the HD.  It sometimes won't boot up after it's been running for some hours, then some hours later it's fine for days until it happens again.  I dunno, still also thinking about just getting a new HD and then a copy of Win10 and I might be good.  I'll check that site though, thanks!

[Seigmoraig]

4 minutes ago, Clave Dark 5 said:

That about describes mine.  It too runs just fine, but I'm worried about the HD.  It sometimes won't boot up after it's been running for some hours, then some hours later it's fine for days until it happens again.  I dunno, still also thinking about just getting a new HD and then a copy of Win10 and I might be good.  I'll check that site though, thanks!

If you are just looking for a new HD, this is what you want to be getting. Samsung makes some of the best SSDs on the market.

https://www.newegg.com/samsung-860-evo-series-500gb/p/N82E16820147674?Item=N82E16820147674

 

Edited October 19, 2019 by Seigmoraig

[biostem]

17 hours ago, Clave Dark 5 said:

My rig's getting old and the hard drive might be starting to fail, so I need a new computer.  But I don't know enough to try and part one together like I did last time (which was only possible thanks to a coworker who's since moved on).  I found the specs for the CoH ultramode listed on the wiki, and obviously most machines I buy now will handily meet those, but on the other hand, looking at them, I have no idea what the usual mix of letters and numbers really means for some things, such at the video card.  Is a NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050 graphics better or worse than a NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1660 Ti?  Just how much, enough to matter, or not? 

 

Rather than get into those weeds, I was wondering if anyone could point me towards a decent pre-built tower that will take care of everything just fine.  And yes I realize that can be a tall order!  If it helps, CoH is the only gaming I do and also probably the only "intensive" computing as well; otherwise it's just streaming and maybe some light photoshopping.

I didn't have a big budget to work with when I put my machine together, so what I did was to get one of these, then one of these, and finally one of these.  It'd require minimal building from your perspective, and should run CoX and many other games just fine.  If you want to splurge, also pick up an SSD to round it all off...

 

EDIT:  Here's a link for a GTX 1050 ti, which doesn't appear to need external power, so it'd be an even easier install...

Edited October 19, 2019 by biostem

[Sanguinesun]

18 hours ago, Clave Dark 5 said:

My rig's getting old and the hard drive might be starting to fail, so I need a new computer.  But I don't know enough to try and part one together like I did last time (which was only possible thanks to a coworker who's since moved on).  I found the specs for the CoH ultramode listed on the wiki, and obviously most machines I buy now will handily meet those, but on the other hand, looking at them, I have no idea what the usual mix of letters and numbers really means for some things, such at the video card.  Is a NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050 graphics better or worse than a NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1660 Ti?  Just how much, enough to matter, or not? 

 

Rather than get into those weeds, I was wondering if anyone could point me towards a decent pre-built tower that will take care of everything just fine.  And yes I realize that can be a tall order!  If it helps, CoH is the only gaming I do and also probably the only "intensive" computing as well; otherwise it's just streaming and maybe some light photoshopping.

 

A 1050 is an entry level card for the 1000 series cards.  It is, in essence, a low end card and could be compared to 900 series or lower in terms of performance usually.

 

The 1660Ti (Ti just means a better version with slightly better performance/features of that card's number) on the other hand is the other side of the spectrum in the 1000 series cards.  In terms of looking at only what the 1000 series cards offer, you're comparing a car to get around town to a car built for performance.

 

However, in terms of CoH game play, both cards are pretty much better than most all cards that were available at the time that CoH was live(most all mind you).

 

If you want a better play experience with CoH, either card is going to be fine though if you plan to play other games with more recent graphic fidelity/performance demands, then the 1660Ti is a better option.

 

That said, your computer's RAM and CPU choices are very important.  Also if you have a large, good quality SSD instead of an HDD (storage for games programs etc) this can also improve some game play performance on most games.

 

In terms of asking people to recommend prebuilt machines for you, I recommend you look locally in your area for stores that build computer rigs for you as well as sell prebuilts.  They can help you more in terms of determining what you would need and explaining to you(and with visuals there) as to the components you wish to use).  Additionally, if you decide to not purchase from them, you are better informed on how to then shop some place else for yourself.

 

And one final point: do not buy any computer rigs that say they are APU rigs.  They're essentially laptop components(inferior ones I might at) that are thrown into a desktop and called a desktop for marketing shenanigans.  Other games I play have people every so often coming to their forums complaining about performance issues or graphics issues and not a small number were APU rigs.

 

Edited October 19, 2019 by Sanguinesun

[Hyperstrike]

11 hours ago, Seigmoraig said:

I also build my own PCs from scratch, have been doing it for the past 15 years. What I have found out a few years back is that you can get Windows 10 Pro licences on ebay for dirt cheap. I have been using these licences for my past 3 builds and have not run into a single problem using them. Everything activates correctly, no errors or anything,
I'm talking like under 5$ level of dirt cheap :
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Windows-10-Home-32-64bit-Genuine-Key-Product-key-Windows-10-Home-key/392445301215?hash=item5b5f9011df:g:ZCYAAOSwx7Jdi2-d

I don't mean to be rude.  But I honestly wouldn't trust this.  This is generally someone duplicating an OEM license.
Does it work (now)?  Yeah.  But down the road?
Let's just say that while I'm fully cognizant of the savings that can be realized, I my trust level simply isn't high enough.

[Hyperstrike]

3 hours ago, Clave Dark 5 said:

That about describes mine.  It too runs just fine, but I'm worried about the HD.  It sometimes won't boot up after it's been running for some hours, then some hours later it's fine for days until it happens again.  I dunno, still also thinking about just getting a new HD and then a copy of Win10 and I might be good.  I'll check that site though, thanks!

If that's the only thing stopping you, SCREW the HDD.
Get yourself a decent sized SSD!
It won't see the performance of SATA3 or PCI-E, but it's still a damn sight faster than your hard drive?
I'd also look at simply doing a clean reinstall of WIndows at the time.  As you might be dealing with an install that has problems too.
And a fresh install will generally run faster than a cloned instance.
Then if you have more stuff on the HDD, you can either keep it as bulk storage or replace the drive later.

Startups won't be near-instataneous the way they are with fully integrated systems that were set up that way from the word go.
But they'll be a darn sight faster (as will program launches) and the performance is NOTICEABLE.

Three brands of SSD I trust.  Samsung, Intel, Crucial in pretty much that order.  And Intel thinks their **** don't stink and prices outrageously accordingly.

Samsung Evo 860 500GB  $75
Samsung Evo 860 1TB  $129

 

Crucial MX500 500GB  $67

Crucial MX500 1TB  $110

 

 

[Hyperstrike]

41 minutes ago, Sanguinesun said:

In terms of asking people to recommend prebuilt machines for you, I recommend you look locally in your area for stores that build computer rigs for you as well as sell prebuilts.

 

20 years ago?  I'd have agreed with that.
Unfortunately, I don't agree with it any more.  I'm in Chicago, and unless you actually KNOW and trust the person putting a machine together for you, I wouldn't touch someone else's prebuilt, off-the-shelf stuff with a 100 yard pole.

No idea how long it's been sitting there.  And unless you've VERY familiar with SOTA, you have no clear way of knowing if the stuff in the box isn't 2 years old, refurbed, etc.
This is why I don't recommend buying off the shelf from Worst Buy or similar Big Box stores.
I had a client who'd basically buy his office new computers like that and it was Fuster Cluck City.  No two machines matched.  Goofy driversets on all of them.  Funky behavior out of all of them.

But by George!  He got a DEAL!

*GRUMBLE*

[Herotu]

I'm looking to put together a new, cheap computer. 

I'm looking at a

processor - Ryzen 3600

motherboard - ASUS Prime B450M-A (I don't overclock)

PSU - EVGA 600W

 

Then I just need memory and I'll use my old hard drives (2x512gig Seagate Barracudas in a striped RAID, Intel® SSD 530 Series 125gig for operating system, Samsung EVO 850 SSD 250gig).

 

There may be an issue putting all of these sata devices on that particular board - but we'll see. I'll fudge it somehow.

 

Not sure about graphics yet.

 

RULE OF THUMB : If it says "Gaming" on it, look for a cheaper version of it. -"GAMING" adds 30-200% to the price for no reason. 

 

I get the impression that a lot of people are holding off buying computer components because they're a massive rip off at the moment. 

 

Edited October 19, 2019 by Herotu

[Call Me Awesome]

13 hours ago, Hyperstrike said:

If that's the only thing stopping you, SCREW the HDD.
Get yourself a decent sized SSD!
It won't see the performance of SATA3 or PCI-E, but it's still a damn sight faster than your hard drive?
I'd also look at simply doing a clean reinstall of WIndows at the time.  As you might be dealing with an install that has problems too.
And a fresh install will generally run faster than a cloned instance.
Then if you have more stuff on the HDD, you can either keep it as bulk storage or replace the drive later.

Startups won't be near-instataneous the way they are with fully integrated systems that were set up that way from the word go.
But they'll be a darn sight faster (as will program launches) and the performance is NOTICEABLE.

Three brands of SSD I trust.  Samsung, Intel, Crucial in pretty much that order.  And Intel thinks their **** don't stink and prices outrageously accordingly.

Samsung Evo 860 500GB  $75
Samsung Evo 860 1TB  $129

 

Crucial MX500 500GB  $67

Crucial MX500 1TB  $110

 

 

Agreed on the SSD recommendation; I've had both Samsung and Crucial drives for some years now with zero issues.  On the other hand the very first SSD I bought shortly after they came out was an Intel and it died after a year... just long enough to outlive the warranty of course.

 

I hadn't realized prices had come down that much, it's been a couple years since I last bought one and they were more than double those prices then.  Damn it Hyper, you're making me think about replacing the ~400GB Samsung in my gaming rig with a 1TB.  🙂 

I've the SSD boot and a couple of 4TB mechanical drives in the machine now and the SSD is nearly full.

 

Oh, one question, what's your opinion on the most reliable 4TB+ drive for long term archival of video footage?  I've been using WD Blue drives lately, prior to that I have a bunch of WD External drives (My Book) on shelves in the closet.  I fill about 15 TB or more a year with video footage that I need to archive and I just got bit when a My Passport drive from 2013 died and took a bunch of footage with it (That I fortunately had a backup of).

[Seigmoraig]

14 hours ago, Hyperstrike said:

Does it work (now)?  Yeah.  But down the road?
Let's just say that while I'm fully cognizant of the savings that can be realized, I my trust level simply isn't high enough.

I understand your misgivings, but it honestly has been working for me for years, and if it stops working eventually ? Well, I'm out 3$, which is why I wanted to try it out in the first place. And them all I have to do is get a real license, open up Windows Update and plop the key in there. It wouldn't even force me to format.

Edited October 19, 2019 by Seigmoraig