Give us 'grindy' stuff (like vanguard) and costume unlocks back

[ShardWarrior]

18 hours ago, Hero_of_Light said:

Im just saying that options are good :). We need grindy things to go along with non grindy things : D.

 

I miss that I don't have costume sets and peices to work towards. 

If by "we need" you mean "you need" then yes, I would agree with you. 

[Lost Ninja]

9 hours ago, Summerspark said:

Could you explain why you think that not making costume pieces unlockable would be better? I went into how there's a psychological aspect to it, but you just seem to be being contrarian. Is there an actual reason you think that?

Gating new stuff behind new grind I don't have an issue with, it's new stuff that I want to play (probably) and if the grind is too odious then I won't bother unlocking it. Or if lik ethe old HEAT unlock it was inevitable to get there eventually but if you really want it you can rush the process with more Dreck...

 

Re-locking existing content behind grind-walls because someone wants to feel like they earned something is difficult. Even if you are satisfied with taking what items you can earn back to how they could be gained after Freedom (pay to bling), then that isn't going to satisfy someone who wants travel at 14, stamina at 20, capes at 30, auras at 40 (or whatever it was I forget now). And it certainly won't satisfy those who want the P2W vendor removed, or who want free 50s. (Ignoring the whole paying money for items/NCSoft thing, that's a different issue.)

 

You can't satisfy everyone, because who is to say your solution is the best one? On top of which apart from the free 50s all of the above can be done if you choose to anyway. Nobody is forcing you to take advantage of all this free stuff. Hell I bet any number of charities would be happy to take a monthly donation in lieu of a subscription if you feel you ought to pay something to play. (Including several charities that are "Gaming Charities".).

 

So use what you feel is fair to use, set yourself arbitrary goals to allow you to use the other stuff. If not using stuff is an issue for you, it's an issue for you not for the wider community or devs to address.

[Rathulfr]

/jranger

[Summerspark]

I feel it's worth pointing out that I never said relock old stuff behind new content walls. Not sure what you're arguing against but it ain't me.

[Lines]

Yeah, cat’s out of the bag with existing things. You wouldn’t even be able to get rid of Null the Gull, which subverts a whole gameplay feature, at this point. The culture has adapted with it.

 

I’m also in favour of account-wide unlocks, where perhaps progress is shared between characters as well.

 

I don’t see this at all as ego-stroking, as some have suggested. Thinking about the cabal hat from live, I never wore it but really enjoyed the process of unlocking it.

[Summerspark]

Yeah, I just like the grind. People can like the things they like without an ulterior motive. I'm autistic, I like grinding repetetive stuff, and it's pretty nuts that people are attacking me over it by claiming I'm just egostroking.

[Lines]

I don't think you're getting attacked here. It's just a difference in expectations about how folks like to play the game.

 

I, at least, would like to see larger varieties of content have its own unique reward, rather than all the reward having been given before the content, and the benefit to playing either concentrated in a few places or standardised throughout the game.

[Summerspark]

2 minutes ago, Lines said:

I don't think you're getting attacked here. It's just a difference in expectations about how folks like to play the game.

Being accused of wanting to ego-stroke sure as heck feels like an attack.

[Lines]

3 minutes ago, Summerspark said:

Being accused of wanting to ego-stroke sure as heck feels like an attack.

I think that just comes from not understanding that this is an idea for the journey, not the destination.

 

Some people like the creative freedom that having no unlockables grants. But I'd prefer to earn an expanded creative freedom. It feels a bit backwards to front-load reward like this to me, but others don't see it that way.

[Summerspark]

5 minutes ago, Lines said:

I think that just comes from not understanding that this is an idea for the journey, not the destination.

 

Some people like the creative freedom that having no unlockables grants. But I'd prefer to earn an expanded creative freedom. It feels a bit backwards to front-load reward like this to me, but others don't see it that way.

True, and like I said, the unlocking of items has that psychological effect - you want to make things more with the stuff you earn. It's cool new stuff, not a reason to stroke yourself off. I don't get the mentality.

[Steampunkette]

RPGs in General are a Skinner Box.

 

You do the thing a little bit and get a reward. So you do the thing some more and get another reward. But the longer you do the thing the longer the wait between rewards. But you still want the reward, so you do the thing looonger and looooooooonger.

 

Part of CoH is a Skinner Box environment. We've retained some of that with leveling, obviously. And added a new Skinner Box in the Vet Leveling which I, personally, adore. Even if I don't get new powers at this point I like the ding.

 

So putting some new stuff behind a little grind, but not a ridiculous grind, would be good. It would give people something to work toward in the days or weeks that followed implementation. I just beg you: ALWAYS make it Account-Unlock.

[Crysta Clear]

No thank you. No, no and no. Don't tie cosmetic options that may be important to someone's RP concept behind a wall of grind. If you want a whole shit-ton of grind, may I suggest Blade & Soul instead? It has great customization and really pretty character models, and all the grind your ass could ever want. But the grind is why I left it. If I have to grind for a costume piece that's important to a given character's concept, I just won't play that character, and I'll feel pretty hurt because of it.

Edited October 27, 2019 by Crysta Clear

[Summerspark]

1 hour ago, Crysta Clear said:

No thank you. No, no and no. Don't tie cosmetic options that may be important to someone's RP concept behind a wall of grind. If you want a whole shit-ton of grind, may I suggest Blade & Soul instead? It has great customization and really pretty character models, and all the grind your ass could ever want. But the grind is why I left it. If I have to grind for a costume piece that's important to a given character's concept, I just won't play that character, and I'll feel pretty hurt because of it.

God forbid someone find a creative way to explain why their character is different from how they intended. As a casual RPer myself that's kind of a huge part of working around what is actually a pretty restrictive customisation system. A lot of parts, very few of them moving quite how I need them to.

[Steampunkette]

1 hour ago, Crysta Clear said:

No thank you. No, no and no. Don't tie cosmetic options that may be important to someone's RP concept behind a wall of grind. If you want a whole shit-ton of grind, may I suggest Blade & Soul instead? It has great customization and really pretty character models, and all the grind your ass could ever want. But the grind is why I left it. If I have to grind for a costume piece that's important to a given character's concept, I just won't play that character, and I'll feel pretty hurt because of it.

And this is why I suggest Account Unlocks.

 

Get a concept for a character that uses the New Costume Bit behind grind. Grind on main. Roll character with Cool New Outfit!

[Voice_box]

If you want to grind for something go ahead. Enforce the original restrictions on yourself.

For instance, I prefer to change my alignment the old fashioned way. I avoid Null the Gull and use the tip system.

The great part about homecoming is that people have lots of different avenues to play the game in a way that is fun for them.

Edited October 27, 2019 by Voice_box

[EmmySky]

I like options.  Right now, I have the option of not putting on that second costume until I do Sergio a favor at 20.  I have the option to put it on at level 1.  Ditto for most of the other 'grindy' stuff out there.  I honestly don't care either way, but I like options.

 

I see a lot of people talk about how they were kids playing and now they are adults with families and less time.  When the game originally came out I was 30 with two kids and a husband.  We all played whenever we could.  Now I am 45, the kids are grown and no husband, but somehow my parents became my kids and so I play whenever I can. 

 

Life will always find a way to get in the way of what you want to do, so for people who want to shortcut stuff, I think they should have that option, even if it is 'new stuff' that's put behind the grind wall.  

 

That's just my random 2 cents.  Happy hunting!

[Summerspark]

11 minutes ago, Voice_box said:

If you want to grind for something go ahead. Enforce the original restrictions on yourself.

For instance, I prefer to change my alignment the old fashioned way. I avoid Null the Gull and use the tip system.

The great part about homecoming is that people have lots of different avenues to play the game in a way that is fun for them.

Literally breaking your own legs is not fun. There's psychological aspects to it. That doesn't work.

[Summerspark]

11 minutes ago, EmmySky said:

I like options.  Right now, I have the option of not putting on that second costume until I do Sergio a favor at 20.  I have the option to put it on at level 1.  Ditto for most of the other 'grindy' stuff out there.  I honestly don't care either way, but I like options.

 

I see a lot of people talk about how they were kids playing and now they are adults with families and less time.  When the game originally came out I was 30 with two kids and a husband.  We all played whenever we could.  Now I am 45, the kids are grown and no husband, but somehow my parents became my kids and so I play whenever I can. 

 

Life will always find a way to get in the way of what you want to do, so for people who want to shortcut stuff, I think they should have that option, even if it is 'new stuff' that's put behind the grind wall.  

 

That's just my random 2 cents.  Happy hunting!

I went over the psychological aspects of unlocking new costume things. The options are great but they're overwhelming. There's no drive to use that stuff because it's all there, trying to get your attention at once.

 

People have varying amounts of time. Your personal situation is irrelevant, and I'm sure you have content that you can do that I cannot due to my own circumstances, that being various mental problems I'm not gonna get in to here. TFs come to mind. Or any group content at all.

 

I know you didn't present this as an argument but it felt like one. I dunno. This entire thread has me on edge now after that first tirade of people accusing me of egostroking. Think I'm gonna back off from this. Learned that the coh community is definitely not what it used to be.

[EmmySky]

45 minutes ago, Summerspark said:

I went over the psychological aspects of unlocking new costume things. The options are great but they're overwhelming. There's no drive to use that stuff because it's all there, trying to get your attention at once.

 

People have varying amounts of time. Your personal situation is irrelevant, and I'm sure you have content that you can do that I cannot due to my own circumstances, that being various mental problems I'm not gonna get in to here. TFs come to mind. Or any group content at all.

 

I know you didn't present this as an argument but it felt like one. I dunno. This entire thread has me on edge now after that first tirade of people accusing me of egostroking. Think I'm gonna back off from this. Learned that the coh community is definitely not what it used to be.

Certainly not an argument!  Some people have more time than others and I think they should all have options was my point.  Stay strong, don't let forum posters (myself or others) get you down!  This is all about a game so go have fun...whichever way is fun for you! 

 

(I understand your desire for rote.)

Edited October 27, 2019 by EmmySky

[Murcielago]

I've been crucified for stating that this game is too easy and instant gratification is too instant. 

[Troo]

Nah, you are correct @Murcielago.

 

IMHO, the best games have things that aren't easy to get. Right now, that's just badges/accolades.

 

There is likely a balance that would work. Out of the box stuff that is plentiful with somethings that need to be unlocked (like trooly white, black or gold costume colors).

Many always thought once we made it to 40.. err I mean 50 then we could change primary or secondary without having to totally start over. The flip side being maybe we only get to do that for an arch type. Brtues do not equal controllers after all.

 

 

 

Edited October 27, 2019 by Troo
clarification and example

[Troo]

On 10/24/2019 at 6:19 PM, molten_dragon said:

When the game was live I had lots of time to play so I didn't mind grinding to get the stuff I wanted.  Now I have a house and two kids to take care of and I'm very happy there's a lot less grinding in the game than there used to be.  Hard pass.

Would you be okay if stuff had minimal impact on your ability to play?

If limited on time, some task forces are just not doable in one sitting. As long as it doesn't gimp everyone that can't, I'm okay with that.

[Megajoule]

It's dismaying how easily we humans can be convinced that grind = fun.  But I guess that's why Skinner boxes work, and game companies have put so much money and research into building better ones.

[Steampunkette]

16 minutes ago, Megajoule said:

It's dismaying how easily we humans can be convinced that grind = fun.  But I guess that's why Skinner boxes work, and game companies have put so much money and research into building better ones.

Grind doesn't equal fun.

 

Goals equals fun.

 

Grind is how you reach your goal.

 

You don't walk into a mission in CoH, then throw up your hands that you've got to "Grind" through the enemies to reach the end, even though -that- is a Skinner box, too.

[Crysta Clear]

Grinding isn't difficulty, it's mind-numbing time investment.