Going forward, can we have more things that mean something?

[MetaVileTerror]

That's right.  We don't want it to be an MMORPG.
We want it to be City of Heroes.

[Hero_of_Light]

4 hours ago, Lost Ninja said:

I find it interesting that you suggest that people who only want all the costume pieces play on Icon yet don't take your own specific play style to a server that supports it.

Because they already have and have had icon for years.

 

Why take the biggest and most stable group of server that intend to not only be the unofficial official continuation, but one that also plans on adding many different types of content based on what they're looking for in the dev corner, and just turn it into icon costume 2.0?

[Hero_of_Light]

3 minutes ago, MetaVileTerror said:

That's right.  We don't want it to be an MMORPG.
We want it to be City of Heroes.

And that's what coh was, until it was taken away and all we had was icon.

 

Ever wonder why icon never had literal 1000s of people playing at all times? Pardon me if I don't want that to be coh

[Itikar]

38 minutes ago, Hero_of_Light said:

Because a costume part gains significance when is ab unlockable, and that makes you stand out as someone who shown commitment to, good example,  helping the vanguard.

But so does a badge. It makes you stand out, check, makes you show commitment, sometimes a big commitment, check. I fail to see any difference as far as the social element is concerned.

 

Or rather I see the difference, and it's that badges will always be superior in that regard. Even from the simple point of view of sheer quantity.

 

Currently there are no unlockable costume parts on Homecoming. Even if the developers listen to your proposal and implement some of them, you will not get anything more than a few scraps. And once you have unlocked those hypothetical parts, bye bye the drive to unlock stuff. It's up to you how and where you choose to play. But on Homecoming it seems highly unlikely you will ever get a significant amount of unlockable costume parts, if any at all. Unlockable permanent costume changes might be another matter, but you have not showed that much appreciation for that idea so far, or for any other idea that does not involve the triad of costume parts, powersets and archetypes. The very same triad that distinguishes Homecoming from most of the other servers. So, tough luck there.

[Hero_of_Light]

3 minutes ago, Itikar said:

But so does a badge. It makes you stand out, check, makes you show commitment, sometimes a big commitment, check. I fail to see any difference as far as the social element is concerned.

 

Or rather I see the difference, and it's that badges will always be superior in that regard. Even from the simple point of view of sheer quantity.

 

Currently there are no unlockable costume parts on Homecoming. Even if the developers listen to your proposal and implement some of them, you will not get anything more than a few scraps. And once you have unlocked those hypothetical parts, bye bye the drive to unlock stuff. It's up to you how and where you choose to play. But on Homecoming it seems highly unlikely you will ever get a significant amount of unlockable costume parts, if any at all. Unlockable permanent costume changes might be another matter, but you have not showed that much appreciation for that idea so far, or for any other idea that does not involve the triad of costume parts, powersets and archetypes. The very same triad that distinguishes Homecoming from most of the other servers. So, tough luck there.

And I'd be okay with that because I could literally play in game the role of a hero that earned a belt of honor by pushing the lost out of the sewers.

 

Thankfully I've taken the question to some in game and my hope is definitely mirrored by many I've spoken too.

[skoryy]

1 hour ago, Hero_of_Light said:

I have.  I used to think this community had hope and wanted to see the game grow as best it could,  not regress into a free hero based IMVU wannabe for chatting and costume contests.

 

Consider my mind changed. 

Nah, you had already made your mind up on how superior you were to everyone else when you jumped in.

 

There's more ways to play than just your way.

[Hero_of_Light]

9 minutes ago, skoryy said:

Nah, you had already made your mind up on how superior you were to everyone else when you jumped in.

 

There's more ways to play than just your way.

Then why is my way not even allowable by some here?

 

It's funny how people claim that their way is the best, while claiming that I think I'm think in superior.

[EmmySky]

Other players see your costume.  They have the ability in options to turn off badges, titles, player name, etc. 

 

I, and several others, have submitted suggestions that revolve around player choice and keeping options open but still allow for opening up content.  People have also brought up the tons of content already gated.  

 

When someone ignores or denigrates those options and insists that costumes are the hill to die on when unlockables are discussed, it sounds an awful lot like "I have a hat you don't have".

[Hero_of_Light]

2 minutes ago, EmmySky said:

 

When someone ignores or denigrates those options and insists that costumes are the hill to die on when unlockables are discussed, it sounds an awful lot like "I have a hat you don't have".

I enjoy this in single player games too, so obviously not. 

 

It's more ' I have a hat that signifies my saving this town and it's a cool hat I can wear that people can see and theyll knows I saved this town's

 

If badges are so comparable,  why are you okay with them being locked? Maybe costumes hold more meaning?

[Hero_of_Light]

Well after checking with people that are currently playing I'm feeling better. 

 

Take care everyone,  I'm going to go work on my car.

[Megajoule]

OP, I have a special green star for your belly.  But I'm not just going to give it to you, no.  You'll have to earn it.

How do you do that?  Well, I also have here a box, with a button.  You'll have to keep pressing (or pecking) the button until it gives you the reward, at some point within the next thousand hours (probably). This is a task involving great skill and determination, I assure you.

And at the end of it, you'll have something to display to show all the other Sneetches how much better you are.  Because you earned it.

 

 

EDIT: ... or you could, instead of grinding for a virtual trophy, go work on your car.  That would, IMO, be a much more productive use of your time, because the car is a physical object with a use outside this game and will (probably) still exist when they turn these servers off.

Edited November 2, 2019 by Megajoule

[MunkiLord]

1 hour ago, Hero_of_Light said:

Im speechless that the idea of needing to finish a story arc to get a costume set alienates people instead of bringing them together.

 

Must they only be able to role play what they want in thier minds and the idea of any in game boundary is crossing a line?

 

In that case, they don't want a coh to be a mmorpg...

 

It might alienate a few vocal people, but there is nothing to suggest that it would somehow alienate a majority of players. You're responding to an extreme opinion. 

[Infinitum]

13 minutes ago, Megajoule said:

OP, I have a special green star for your belly.  But I'm not just going to give it to you, no.  You'll have to earn it.

How do you do that?  Well, I also have here a box, with a button.  You'll have to keep pressing (or pecking) the button until it gives you the reward, at some point within the next thousand hours (probably). This is a task involving great skill and determination, I assure you.

And at the end of it, you'll have something to display to show all the other Sneetches how much better you are.  Because you earned it.

 

 

EDIT: ... or you could, instead of grinding for a virtual trophy, go work on your car.  That would, IMO, be a much more productive use of your time, because the car is a physical object with a use outside this game and will (probably) still exist when they turn these servers off.

That pretty much sums up everything about homecoming and why we are here on it.

 

It's an easy second chance to time travel and do it all over again but better and easier while still having lives.

[Hero_of_Light]

58 minutes ago, Megajoule said:

OP, I have a special green star for your belly.  But I'm not just going to give it to you, no.  You'll have to earn it.

How do you do that?  Well, I also have here a box, with a button.  You'll have to keep pressing (or pecking) the button until it gives you the reward, at some point within the next thousand hours (probably). This is a task involving great skill and determination, I assure you.

And at the end of it, you'll have something to display to show all the other Sneetches how much better you are.  Because you earned it.

 

 

44 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

That pretty much sums up everything about homecoming and why we are here on it.

 

It's an easy second chance to time travel and do it all over again but better and easier while still having lives.

Dose it need to be that extreme?  Why can't it be a guaranteed reward the you get a bank tellers hat after the bank is saved, or you've logged out at the bank?

[Indystruck]

There's some bizarrely aggressive stuff in here. Pretty telling people going "Let people play how they want to play!" are in the same breath basically going "You're dumb and how you want to play is dumb and you should go saw your limbs off and roll yourself into a tar pit."

[Omega-202]

14 minutes ago, Indystruck said:

There's some bizarrely aggressive stuff in here. Pretty telling people going "Let people play how they want to play!" are in the same breath basically going "You're dumb and how you want to play is dumb and you should go saw your limbs off and roll yourself into a tar pit."

Except that the people advocating for the status quo aren't advocating for taking anything away from the "sense of pride and accomplishment" people.  They can set their own goals, work towards badges, etc. and everyone can enjoy what we have.  That's "letting people play how they want to play". 

 

The other side is advocating for taking away things from everyone else. They are not for letting people play the way they want to play.  

 

Quick metaphor: right now we have a nice open public park for everyone.  Everyone can do as they please there, with little restrictions.  Someone comes along and says:

 

"I want to fence off an area (just a small one!) and only let in people who have done 100 jumping jacks.  Then I can feel special because everyone can see I did 100 jumping jacks and I'm awesome.  Its no big deal though, anyone can come do 100 jumping jacks too and then you can get access to that part of the park I took away." 

 

That person would be rightly laughed at and ridiculed.  Why should anyone be forced to accomodate that just so a small subset of people can stroke their ego over something that is so meaningless?  That's what we're dealing with here.

[biostem]

31 minutes ago, Indystruck said:

Pretty telling people going "Let people play how they want to play!" are in the same breath basically going "You're dumb and how you want to play is dumb and you should go saw your limbs off and roll yourself into a tar pit."

Well, there are basically 2 groups in this thread:

 

1. Those that want stuff to just be unlocked right from the get-go.

2. Those that want you to have to earn stuff in-game.

 

As for for your point about vitriol - This is the internet, and as much as we'd like to think of ourselves as sophisticated debaters, people feel strongly about particular topics, and things tend to escalate quickly...

[MetaVileTerror]

It's not a binary.  There's a lot more nuance to it.  I sadly don't have time to go in to full detail, but it's a gradient.  Where people put themselves and where they draw the line is different.

[Indystruck]

12 minutes ago, Omega-202 said:

Except that the people advocating for the status quo aren't advocating for taking anything away from the "sense of pride and accomplishment" people.  They can set their own goals, work towards badges, etc. and everyone can enjoy what we have.  That's "letting people play how they want to play". 

 

The other side is advocating for taking away things from everyone else. They are not for letting people play the way they want to play.  

 

Quick metaphor: right now we have a nice open public park for everyone.  Everyone can do as they please there, with little restrictions.  Someone comes along and says:

 

"I want to fence off an area (just a small one!) and only let in people who have done 100 jumping jacks.  Then I can feel special because everyone can see I did 100 jumping jacks and I'm awesome.  Its no big deal though, anyone can come do 100 jumping jacks too and then you can get access to that part of the park I took away." 

 

That person would be rightly laughed at and ridiculed.  Why should anyone be forced to accomodate that just so a small subset of people can stroke their ego over something that is so meaningless?  That's what we're dealing with here.

 

But video games and public parks aren't the same thing. That's like saying, imagine there's a grocery store, and everyone just raids it, but some people still pay. Those rude people who want everything for free are picking the pockets of those who are trying to keep the store running! What rude cards! Except... that's a bad example, and doesn't really apply to how video games as a whole even work, except to just try and make one side of this seem as bad and dumb as possible?

 

Hell, even the topic creator, when given a response that was clearly just belittling in the "Pride and Accomplishment" badge from the choice of words, said "that doesn't sound too bad, having an opt in like that." Like... yeah, more "achievement" category badges or the like would be nice.

 

 

[biostem]

3 minutes ago, Indystruck said:

But video games and public parks aren't the same thing. That's like saying, imagine there's a grocery store, and everyone just raids it, but some people still pay. Those rude people who want everything for free are picking the pockets of those who are trying to keep the store running! What rude cards! Except... that's a bad example, and doesn't really apply to how video games as a whole even work, except to just try and make one side of this seem as bad and dumb as possible?

Nothing is taken away from those that want items locked behind some sort of achievement;  It's actually quite simple - just don't use the costume pieces/temp powers/etc, unless you feel you've met whatever arbitrary requirement should be met.  Other people, who don't subscribe to that sort of limitation, can then use the stuff as they see fit.  Why is a self-imposed  limitation bad, but one placed upon you by the game ok?

[Indystruck]

Because eventually, one person coming up with arbitrary gates and goals for themselves (which I already do to keep this game interesting, like rolling and soloing with sets that aren't popular according to the stats that were released to try and make unloved sets sing) is going to run out of ways to do so. The game setting those represents a team of other minds setting interesting challenges. A group of people is going to have more ideas than one, typically.

Edited November 2, 2019 by Indystruck

[biostem]

4 minutes ago, Indystruck said:

Because eventually, one person coming up with arbitrary gates and goals for themselves (which I already do to keep this game interesting, like rolling and soloing with sets that aren't popular according to the stats that were released to try and make unloved sets sing) is going to run out of ways to do so. The game setting those represents a team of other minds setting interesting challenges. A group of people is going to have more ideas than one, typically.

Then ask for input from others regarding challenges/milestones you can work toward.  Don't advocate to lock everyone else out of stuff because you can't come up with personal goals anymore...

[Indystruck]

I haven't? The thing I'm advocating for here is just more badges.

[Itikar]

Just to be clear, by page 10, this discussion is not about badges. OP made it crystal clear the thing he primarily cares about are unlockable costume parts. Those are the "things that mean something". All the rest is not even remotely on the same level according to their posts.

[Indystruck]

The topic title is about things that can be added to the game to foster that sense of progression. The cat is out of the bag as far as easy access to everything in the game goes, you can't put the stuff that's already unlocked back behind a gateway. These topics are discussion topics, that can ebb and flow, hense me offering up further badges as a solution. Short of developing new costume parts and gating those off, for better or worse, you can't put the toothpaste back in the tube.