Why I only play Controllers and Tankers and only a few subsets of those

[DougGraves]

I love alts.  Because I love the CoX costume designer.  If the game shut down and we just had the costume designer I could still live a full life.

 

But when playing CoX, no matter how many other ATs I try, I end up playing 90% controllers and 10% tankers.  And no matter how many of their powersets I try, I always end up with just a few. 

 

The reason why is because I want to see immediate and dramatic effects.  I almost always team, I just enjoy that the most.  And when playing a controller, no matter what is going on I can have an immediate impact (except damage).  I can hold a foe or group of foes, heal someone, reduce the AV's regen, etc. 

 

But seeing it happen is a huge part of it for me.  Force field is great.  I love getting bubbles on me.  But if I bubble a team I cannot see the impact that has.  I might be incredibly powerful, but I don't feel it.  So I basically avoid all of the powersets that do team buffs.  Again, I know that they are great and possibly better than what I use - but if I cannot sense that in the game it just does not work for me as a player.

 

My takeaway from this is that no matter what you do to the numbers on the other ATs and to the other powersets, they will never win me over.  It is not about effectiveness, it is about perceived effectiveness.  I know for many it is about crunching the build numbers in mids.  I do not do that.  So for me it is about how it feels and looks in game.  Any analysis that is based on the numbers for the powers is going to end up missing the point, at least for me. 

[Securityuniform]

This is why I tend to play blasters or tanks. I like the immediacy of the effect, it makes me feel like I'm contributing. I love having buffers and debuffers in my party, it makes me feel happy and safe, but for me I can't play them as I'm not patient enough. A good controller or defender is a treasure and life would be harder without them. But I can't play them.

[MetaVileTerror]

Have you tried Electric Control / Traps yet, Graves?

If you want to feel like everything you do has an immediate effect, that Set Combo . . . *makes an over-exaggerated kissing sound*

[DougGraves]

5 minutes ago, MetaVileTerror said:

Have you tried Electric Control / Traps yet, Graves?

If you want to feel like everything you do has an immediate effect, that Set Combo . . . *makes an over-exaggerated kissing sound*

 

I play electric as my main, but electric dark.  I have not tried traps as a controller.  I only really play up to level 32 - so is it good before then?  I don't care about end game.  I delete my characters in the 30's and start over.

[Abraxus]

I can agree with the sentiments expressed here.  However, I get that same kind of feed back from Blasters (in the damage I deal out), Healers (saving lives, and making them more effective), and Brutes/Scrappers (taking the opposition out one at a time, with extreme prejudice).  So, I think it's fair to say that different folks experience that same feeling you get playing your preferred archetypes, in their own way, with their own preferred archetypes that lend themselves to that process.  It's an individual experience, arrived at in many distinct, and unique ways. 

 

Sounds like the mark of a good game to me!

[MetaVileTerror]

Deletion?  That's a shame, particularly with the 1000 slots available per Shard per account.

But, honestly, Traps' last two Powers aren't really even worth it.  Trip Mine and Time Bomb are kind of "meh" in my opinion, and have been subject to much criticism in the many "Change Traps/Devices" threads that cropped up over the years on Live and here.

[Lines]

I feel like buffers haven't had an easy time recently, but your mention of Force Fields is an especially sad example. They do need a little more relevance, I think.

 

When you play a debuffer, however, you feel it. You can smell it when the defences and resistances of the enemy drop. It's a good feeling when the AV looks at you in the eye and they know that it was not the punches or the fire or the bullets that killed them. It was that -regen you stacked. And they know it.

[DougGraves]

12 minutes ago, MetaVileTerror said:

Deletion?  That's a shame, particularly with the 1000 slots available per Shard per account.

 

I am not used to that yet.  But I have character names and costumes that I like.  So I literally play Tomb Fisted Kid an undead cowboy dark/dark tanker to 30ish and then delete him and start over a new Tomb Fisted Kid with the same costume and powers.  I just like the journey.  If I saved him I would have to rename him and just have him sit unused.

[MetaVileTerror]

Free rename tokens are also a thing.  I should have mentioned that, sorry.
That way you don't have to give up on your favourite name for a character when you reroll them, OR the original character which you could always come back to later on if the fancy strikes you.  Best of both worlds!

[Heraclea]

24 minutes ago, MetaVileTerror said:

But, honestly, Traps' last two Powers aren't really even worth it.  Trip Mine and Time Bomb are kind of "meh" in my opinion, and have been subject to much criticism in the many "Change Traps/Devices" threads that cropped up over the years on Live and here.

Time Bomb is indeed worthless, but Trip Mine has dozens of uses.  My Archery/Devices blaster is the queen of Halloween, and also very handy on the BAF besides, where Trip Mine is every other attack she plays during the escape sequence.  If you have a good idea where the mobs will be coming from or going, Trip Mine is golden. 

[Myrmidon]

38 minutes ago, MetaVileTerror said:

Have you tried Electric Control / Traps yet, Graves?

If you want to feel like everything you do has an immediate effect, that Set Combo . . . *makes an over-exaggerated kissing sound*

Now, that’s a combo that I should give some serious consideration.

[MetaVileTerror]

I mean, I prefer Trip Mine to most of the AoE attacks in the game, sure . . . but the caveats to its use just don't balance out to the benefit in my gaming experience.  I'm not advocating for its removal; just stating that it has been at the centre of criticisms dating back for literal years.

[Call Me Awesome]

I suppose I have a bit of a statistical lean towards melee, Tank, Scrapper, Stalker or Brute.  However, I've played everything except Mastermind to 50 at least once on Live so I have a considerably more diverse experience.

 

Nothing at all wrong with Controllers, I had Ill/Rad, Fire/Rad, Mind/Kin, Plant/Storm all at 50 so I certainly see the attraction of the set.  I also had Invuln/Stone, Stone/EM, Stone/Fire, Fire/Fire, Shield/Fire and Ice/Dark tankers at 50.  Blasters?  Fire/EM, Archery/EM, Archery/TA all at 50.  Defenders?  Dark/Dark, Rad/Rad, Kin/Rad all at 50.  Scrappers?  I think I'm forgetting some but BS/Regen, Spine/Regen, StJ/Invuln, BS/SD.  A couple of Corruptors, PB, WS, Widow, Dominator, Brute, Stalker.

 

If you want a set with an obvious, immediate impact on the mobs and team have you tried a Rad/Sonic or Kin/Sonic Defender?  Solid debuffs along with either more debuffage or massive team buffs.  All that said, play what feels right to you at a given point.  You won't find many teams complain about having a Fire/Rad or Fire/Kin 'troller on the team.  I tend to get into a bit of a rut and run mostly one AT for awhile, then I get bored and pick up something completely different as a change of pace.  After a period of paying close attention to the team's aggro and controlling the mobs playing a Tank it's pretty relaxing just sitting back and blasting the bejeezus out of spawns with a Blaster.  The concentration and attention to detail of a Tri-Form Keldian is kind of like playing a Blaster, Scrapper and Tank all in the same character.

 

Masterminds are the only set I've never been able to get into, I've tried a half dozen times and always end up abandoning them by the early 20's; they're too fiddly for my taste.

[Gulbasaur]

5 hours ago, DougGraves said:

So for me it is about how it feels and looks in game.  Any analysis that is based on the numbers for the powers is going to end up missing the point, at least for me. 

Preach, sister.

 

I am, in game, a massive showoff. I know my builds. I know what I'm doing. I will make sure everyone else knows this, too. I like my effects to be obnoxious and I need flexibility.

 

I love the epic ATs because their hybrid playstyle allows you to smack the proverbial biscuit out of the proverbial mouth of almost every single archetype at least once (then leave before anyone notices that if you had to do it any longer the flaws in your terrible plan would immediately become apparent). Need someone to tank for like 20 seconds? I can do that. Need someone to nuke a second mob we've pulled? I can do that too.

 

I loved levelling my peacebringer because I can funking punch a funking boss across the funking room and then turn into a giant tank monster, teleport over to the floundering brute, gently lift all the aggro of his furious little head until he recovers then turn into a prawn and fly away. It's fun. It's cool. It's versatile. I like the visuals. I know they're sort of middling in terms of damage and I give not a single funk. Being able to one-up a brute like that is sort of magical (but you leave before anyone notices you're doing a fifth of their damage in dwarf form).

 

My current love is a fortunata and I think part of it is that, with me on your team, you are guaranteed a pink and wavy time. People know it's me who just wiped out the second spawn we pulled. Before I was fully tricked out in IOs and procs, I'd been called a steamroller and literally had someone say "whoa". If you want to feel glorious and get noticed, psi is the way to go and fortunatas are so much fun. You can dye the whole screen shades of lilac and make your teammates thank you for it. I recently duo'd a bit with a really cool brute which was great apart from the fact that I could out-survive him in every single battle we came across and he knew it. He thought it was funny, luckily. I was fully IO'd out and he had just hit his alpha incarnate, so that's understandable, but it was still a "BEHOLD MY GLORY" moment. I had to go and answer the door while up against a +4 AV with him on the floor and when I came back I was still standing... I loved that moment.

 

I got a brute to 50 and it was fun but sort of too easy. My stalker felt more technically complex but I didn't truly enjoy it until the epic pools and sneak attack fireballs for everybody!!! That was fun. Not quite fortunata fun, but still there's something very satisfying about a sneak attack explosion. I also took a few support powers from the pools on my stalker, which helped my hybrid obsession - spirit ward is an excellent "I forbid you to die" power and generally gets comments in teams.

 

So... yeah. I need to feel flexible. I need to be able to kinda do everything, even if it's not for very long. Single-focus ATs really don't do it for me and even when I've tried with them they end up garbled mishmashes of power pools and epic pools. I feel a bit like a twat writing this all, but it's true: I have one criteria and that's "allows me to show off".

Edited November 1, 2019 by Gulbasaur

[MetaVileTerror]

Knowing which Global Channel you and I share, Gulb . . . 
*ahem*  Prima donna!

[Gulbasaur]

1 hour ago, MetaVileTerror said:

Knowing which Global Channel you and I share, Gulb . . . 
*ahem*  Prima donna!

Spoiler

I play a lot of D&D and know the difference between having fun in combat and a respectful, collaborative and dynamic roleplay experience. But seriously, though, if you're going to IO out, you might as well pick a load of powers that show off what you can do. I also have an obsession with getting ATs to do things they weren't build for, hence my support stalker and my fortunata tank. 

Edited November 1, 2019 by Gulbasaur

[Rathulfr]

2 hours ago, Securityuniform said:

This is why I tend to play blasters or tanks. I like the immediacy of the effect, it makes me feel like I'm contributing. I love having buffers and debuffers in my party, it makes me feel happy and safe, but for me I can't play them as I'm not patient enough. A good controller or defender is a treasure and life would be harder without them. But I can't play them.

 

For me, it's Blasters and (now) Sentinels.  I just like doing ranged DPS, pure and simple.  I love hovering and blasting my enemies into oblivion.  Yes, I know Sentinels do less DPS than Blasters, but I love how they feel.

 

I do enjoy playing other ATs, occasionally: tankers and controllers, coincidentally.  I've tried all the others, too.  But it's not the same with them.  Ultimately, I'm back to blasting, most of the time.

 

[Replacement]

What Defenders (most types) provide is often called "invisible power."

 

By most standards of game design, it's anathema: The only way to make them feel impactful is to be incredibly OP.

 

For the record, CoH's invisible power numbers are probably more in the OP camp than the "feels weak" camp already.  This game just broke all the rules in exactly the right ways to be awesome.

[Lakanna]

12 minutes ago, Replacement said:

What Defenders (most types) provide is often called "invisible power."

 

By most standards of game design, it's anathema: The only way to make them feel impactful is to be incredibly OP.

 

For the record, CoH's invisible power numbers are probably more in the OP camp than the "feels weak" camp already.  This game just broke all the rules in exactly the right ways to be awesome.

Yeah. Defenders and Corruptors FEEL weak, and especially soloing. When I want my Corruptor to feel strong, I join a team or a league, because I know what he does in that situation: force-multiplies the entire group to absolutely absurd levels. (Sonic/Kin corruptor. Buffs and debuffs everywhere, often simultaneously.) The visible results of my own attacks aren't all that, but knowing how much damage I'm ACTUALLY bringing to the fight is absolutely worth it.

And when i want to feel weak, i solo. Nothing like "Oops, out of a specific Inspiration, so I do nothing until I die." I HATE mez effects in this game, either devastating or meaningless.

[jubakumbi]

Dominators all the way for me in this regard.

I get to lock it all down and I get to melt it once it's locked down.

Nothing feels more powerful than Domninators to me, they have spoiled me.

[MunkiLord]

3 hours ago, Gulbasaur said:

I am, in game, a massive showoff. I know my builds. I know what I'm doing. I will make sure everyone else knows this, too. I like my effects to be obnoxious and I need flexibility.

I love this line so very, very much.

[Corruption]

5 hours ago, DougGraves said:

My takeaway from this is that no matter what you do to the numbers on the other ATs and to the other powersets, they will never win me over.  It is not about effectiveness, it is about perceived effectiveness.  I know for many it is about crunching the build numbers in mids.  I do not do that.  So for me it is about how it feels and looks in game.  Any analysis that is based on the numbers for the powers is going to end up missing the point, at least for me. 

Effectiveness and perceived effectiveness is why I avoid Tanks. I 'tank' everything with my Scrapper while also doing 1000x more damage. 

[Gulbasaur]

8 minutes ago, Corruption said:

Effectiveness and perceived effectiveness is why I avoid Tanks. I 'tank' everything with my Scrapper while also doing 1000x more damage. 

Try a stalker. When double-stacked crits on double-stacked Build Up is part of your standard combat rotation, you definitely feel awesome. They're in a really, really good place at the moment. Hitting for over 1k, solo, twice in a row, two or three time a minute creates very skewed ideas about DPS. They play like scrappers with special moves.

Edited November 1, 2019 by Gulbasaur