[Proposal] UNGIMPING basic Peacebringer design game mechanics

[star_fury_lives]

Yeah knockUP doesn't seem right thematically (they're not anti-gravity blasts, they always struck me as energy explosions). Knockdown would be more sensible.

 

Personally I like knockback and whilst it would be a pain in the ass to slot knockbacks if I wanted it in a power, it would be doable. Or, as suggested, have an ATO enhancement that universally changes knockback to knockdown.

[kelly Rocket]

PBs are actually disgustingly good at their job, no changes necessary.

 

Also, knockback is the single best form of CC in the game. Mobs can't kill players when they're being chucked 50 feet through the air on loop.

 

QTF

 

I get why it can be a pain for team mates - usually a grumpy scrapper for some reason, still it can be managed.

 

Hurrr hurr, only Scrappers hate teh knockbackz, silly Scrappers!

 

For real though, I loathe Knockback, and I don't play Scrappers (Anymore. Brutes make them obsolete for me, personally. Just a preference thing). I hate it when I'm playing my support toons, almost all of whom have half their toolkit dependent on keeping the enemy in a defined area. There's nothing more annoying then throwing down Distortion Field or Ice Slick or something only to have some MOTHERFUCKING IDIOT PEACEBRINGER fling the entire spawn out of the area, in all directions.

 

Thanks asshole, that's like a 60 second cooldown you just blew for me, and everyone's going to take more damage because your dumb ass needed to feel "powerful" by flinging the mobs around.

 

And Knockback is not the most effective CC in the game. KnockUP works identically, without scattering the spawn to the four winds. It provides just as much mitigation as knockback, but doesn't inconvenience everyone else in your group to let you "feel strong".

 

But you go on telling yourself how badass you are, and I'll go on avoiding any team with multiple Peacebringers on it (And just ignoring PBs entirely when I'm actually running the team), until they get fixed, or lock the AT to people who have a 50 already again so that I can have some modicum of confidence that anyone I see on a PB might have the skill to use it without fucking everyone else over.

 

Switch them to Knockdown or Knockup by default. I don't care which. Give them the option to switch back, through some arcane, hidden NPC or something somewhere, so noobs can't find it.

[n00baka]

So, I'm not a huge fan of the proposed changes in the OP. The first suggestion just strikes me as someone who doesn't like Knockback / Knockdown. And that's fine. I can sympathize with that line of thinking myself. Granted, when it comes to the Warshade / Peacebringer ATs, I tend to want their KB to be more consistent across the attack. A higher percentage then what's already there, especially with the AoEs in Nova form as when I hit a group with either power. I'd like them all to stay in a group, even if that means them flying together like the Mighty Ducks. But that's my opinion, and it obviously differs from the OP's. So while I personally wouldn't support the idea based solely on personal taste, I also am a bit wary due to the OP's use of personally inferred thematic opinion. By that, I mean the idea that because some Warshade abilities are themed around gravity, that the Peacebringer must be themed around anti-gravity. Nothing in any of the mission lore I've read, or game lore I've seen, supports that. Everything seems to indicate they used a form of energy blast for their attacks, which in this game is usually flavored with Knockback / Knockdown. Warshades also have this applied to them, because despite some abilities having a gravity flavor (usually their control abilities) their attacks are also styled around energy blasts. Just with Negative damage instead of Energy.

 

With all that said, I'd like to suggest being careful with using the flavor of a set or ability or power to justify game play changes. I say this mostly because game play tends to be less flexible with what you can do with it compared to how easily it can be justified with flavor. I'm not saying 'flavor should never dictate game play', but that it shouldn't be the initial justification for it, let alone the only one.

 

All that said, reducing the Knockback strength to the realm of Knockdown would be ideal for me, though I know not everyone likes that.

 

 

Let's move on to the second suggestion. I get WHY you would want to compare Peacebringers and Warshades, but I think it's a little questionable. For starters, the two ATs have fairly different play styles because of their differences in both what powers are available and their strengths. It would be like comparing a Soldier of Arachnos to a Fortunata just because they both happen to be villainous EATs. It might be better to compare Pulsar to Thunderclap from the Corruptor, Defender, Controller, or Mastermind Storm Summoning sets. That would give you a better baseline as what's expected of this power as both have very similar functions. For the Defender, the ability is obviously going to be cheaper and last longer, but it also casts faster, has a larger radius, and affects more enemies. But Pulsar has that 50% chance for a higher Mag, so that's something. The Corruptor version is interestingly very similar to the Defender version, but lasts significantly less time. Again, it also costs less endurance, casts slightly faster, and affects more foes.

 

With those comparisons in mind, I'd counter-propose that Pulsar simply needs an increase in the number of foes it can hit as well as an increase its radius. I don't think the Mag needs adjusting, and while the endurance certainly could be looked at, I'm not sold that the power needs a complete overhaul. I would like to hear other people's thoughts on these subjects though, because while I certainly don't think the Peacebringer design is "gimped", I liked the discussion.

[CoHFooF]

I played PB religiously in the old days and KB goes with the territory. Does it cause chaos? Yes. Does it blow apart well-designed, tightly-grouped enemies for AoEs? Yes. Does it still have usefulness? Yes. Does it still look/feel cool?. Yes.

 

It's a mixed bag. If I could tone it down, yeah, I wouldn't mind and even if Null the Gull could turn it all into Knockdown, I might use it.

 

The only thing I don't like about PBs is, as mentioned, having to re-toggle when going back into human form. Toggles should stay "on" but have no effect and no cost no endurance, if that's possible. Leadership toggles, shield toggles, etc. are pains to re-start when you're changing forms 6x in a battle. Fix that and I'll play a non-Human-only build past 40.

[Solarverse]

I played PB religiously in the old days and KB goes with the territory. Does it cause chaos? Yes. Does it blow apart well-designed, tightly-grouped enemies for AoEs? Yes. Does it still have usefulness? Yes. Does it still look/feel cool?. Yes.

 

It's a mixed bag. If I could tone it down, yeah, I wouldn't mind and even if Null the Gull could turn it all into Knockdown, I might use it.

 

The only thing I don't like about PBs is, as mentioned, having to re-toggle when going back into human form. Toggles should stay "on" but have no effect and no cost no endurance, if that's possible. Leadership toggles, shield toggles, etc. are pains to re-start when you're changing forms 6x in a battle. Fix that and I'll play a non-Human-only build past 40.

 

My main in the old days was a Tank. PB's and Energy Blasters and anything else that did knock back only got one warning. If they scattered my mobs more than once they got the boot. I never had to even warn the good ones...the players that took the time to angle their attacks and blast them in a direction that helped me, not scatter the mobs...however, there is a huge drawback to this; it takes time to set up, and in later content, mobs are already dead by time you set up and hit Build-up + Aim and then your Cone/AoE. End game content PB's are poop IMO. And trust me, I love playing PB's...especially human form. So it stings a bit saying this about them, but they are poop for end game content, even if you know how to play them.

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

PBs are actually disgustingly good at their job, no changes necessary.

 

Also, knockback is the single best form of CC in the game. Mobs can't kill players when they're being chucked 50 feet through the air on loop.

 

QTF

 

I get why it can be a pain for team mates - usually a grumpy scrapper for some reason, still it can be managed.

 

Hurrr hurr, only Scrappers hate teh knockbackz, silly Scrappers!

 

For real though, I loathe Knockback, and I don't play Scrappers (Anymore. Brutes make them obsolete for me, personally. Just a preference thing). I hate it when I'm playing my support toons, almost all of whom have half their toolkit dependent on keeping the enemy in a defined area. There's nothing more annoying then throwing down Distortion Field or Ice Slick or something only to have some MOTHERFUCKING IDIOT PEACEBRINGER fling the entire spawn out of the area, in all directions.

 

Thanks asshole, that's like a 60 second cooldown you just blew for me, and everyone's going to take more damage because your dumb ass needed to feel "powerful" by flinging the mobs around.

 

And Knockback is not the most effective CC in the game. KnockUP works identically, without scattering the spawn to the four winds. It provides just as much mitigation as knockback, but doesn't inconvenience everyone else in your group to let you "feel strong".

 

But you go on telling yourself how badass you are, and I'll go on avoiding any team with multiple Peacebringers on it (And just ignoring PBs entirely when I'm actually running the team), until they get fixed, or lock the AT to people who have a 50 already again so that I can have some modicum of confidence that anyone I see on a PB might have the skill to use it without fucking everyone else over.

 

Switch them to Knockdown or Knockup by default. I don't care which. Give them the option to switch back, through some arcane, hidden NPC or something somewhere, so noobs can't find it.

 

You come off as quite the control freak and frankly dont sound like someone I think many would want to team with no matter how competent a player you are. There is no content in this game so challenging it takes a perrfect meta team or tank spank control approach to win it handedly, simple fct is back in the day all the biggest challenges with the fastest times always tended to be pure scrapper groups. So why stress at all. You are here to have fun and feel like a super hero, so is everyone else. holding back, waiting for corner pulling etc all very much ruin the actual fun of playing in general.

 

Dont like KB dont use it, dont want it in your groups fine be a bigot towards others, but being insulting to people for how they want to play or the powers they like, that is an attitude  that qualifies as toxic and does nothing positive for our new community.

[kelly Rocket]

PBs are actually disgustingly good at their job, no changes necessary.

 

Also, knockback is the single best form of CC in the game. Mobs can't kill players when they're being chucked 50 feet through the air on loop.

 

QTF

 

I get why it can be a pain for team mates - usually a grumpy scrapper for some reason, still it can be managed.

 

Hurrr hurr, only Scrappers hate teh knockbackz, silly Scrappers!

 

For real though, I loathe Knockback, and I don't play Scrappers (Anymore. Brutes make them obsolete for me, personally. Just a preference thing). I hate it when I'm playing my support toons, almost all of whom have half their toolkit dependent on keeping the enemy in a defined area. There's nothing more annoying then throwing down Distortion Field or Ice Slick or something only to have some MOTHERFUCKING IDIOT PEACEBRINGER fling the entire spawn out of the area, in all directions.

 

Thanks asshole, that's like a 60 second cooldown you just blew for me, and everyone's going to take more damage because your dumb ass needed to feel "powerful" by flinging the mobs around.

 

And Knockback is not the most effective CC in the game. KnockUP works identically, without scattering the spawn to the four winds. It provides just as much mitigation as knockback, but doesn't inconvenience everyone else in your group to let you "feel strong".

 

But you go on telling yourself how badass you are, and I'll go on avoiding any team with multiple Peacebringers on it (And just ignoring PBs entirely when I'm actually running the team), until they get fixed, or lock the AT to people who have a 50 already again so that I can have some modicum of confidence that anyone I see on a PB might have the skill to use it without fucking everyone else over.

 

Switch them to Knockdown or Knockup by default. I don't care which. Give them the option to switch back, through some arcane, hidden NPC or something somewhere, so noobs can't find it.

 

You come off as quite the control freak and frankly dont sound like someone I think many would want to team with no matter how competent a player you are. There is no content in this game so challenging it takes a perrfect meta team or tank spank control approach to win it handedly, simple fct is back in the day all the biggest challenges with the fastest times always tended to be pure scrapper groups. So why stress at all. You are here to have fun and feel like a super hero, so is everyone else. holding back, waiting for corner pulling etc all very much ruin the actual fun of playing in general.

 

Dont like KB dont use it, dont want it in your groups fine be a bigot towards others, but being insulting to people for how they want to play or the powers they like, that is an attitude  that qualifies as toxic and does nothing positive for our new community.

I think you entirely missed the point of my post, which was that your "fun" (If knockback spamming is your fun) ruins everyone else's fun. Lots of powersets literally can't do anything useful when the mobs are scattered. I play Defenders and Controllers a lot, and I'm there to support the team and keep people from dying. I play a lot of powersets that are heavy on ground targeted AoE effects with long recharge times.

 

If you scatter the mobs, you make me useless. This is NOT FUN.

[Solarverse]

 

 

If you scatter the mobs, you make me useless. This is NOT FUN.

 

They also make Blasters Useless: The throw a Fireball, now instead of hitting the nice and tight mob, they hit only one or two.

 

They make Tanks useless: A Tank goes to use Foot Stomp, instead of hitting the mob he worked so hard to gather up, he now only hits the floor and air. Tank taunts, now he only taunts one instead of the whole mob.

 

They make Controllers useless: Instead of immobing or hold the mob still for the blasters and Tanks, they are now permanently held all over the room in random places...which restricts the mob from running back to the Tank. Now it takes 2 to 3 times longer to kill the mob.

 

In fact, the only thing that isn't rendered useless, are Master Minds and other players who use KB to scatter mobs.

 

It truly does boil down to, who has the more logical argument. The "Don't tell me how to play!" guys, or the "Your play style is hurting your team's play style" guys?

 

Even worse, is if you kick a player for using and refusing to stop using KBs in a negative way, some people want to make you out to be the monster here.

 

To me it is simply this. You either play along the grain and not against the grain of the REST OF THE TEAM, or you are gone. No hard feelings, we simply didn't mix well.

 

I mean, there does have to be a line drawn somewhere. You cannot spoil the fun of 7 players, just to be sure that 1 player gets to play the way he/she likes. The need of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Simple Logic, spoken by our beloved late Leonard Nimoy.

[_NOPE_]

KB can be used correctly, but that's on the player.

[kelly Rocket]

All that's true. It's just that the players it hurts the most are players like Ice or Earth controllers, and Time Defenders, who rely heavily on long recharge ground target fields to provide mitigation for the group. For them, a single AoE knockback can ruin their play entirely. It's not even a matter of being like Blasters who can only get a couple targets in their blasts now, it's worse, your power has been *completely* nullified and you can't fix it.

 

And the PB players who say "Oh but I'm providing the mitigation with my KBs!" can go jump in a lake, because yeah, great, you can chain KB one guy, but you just scattered 15 mobs out of the knockdown or other mitigation field I had laid down, so are you able to mitigate ALL of them? I think not.

[Solarverse]

KB can be used correctly, but that's on the player.

 

I was fair about it, some (although not many at all) actually do know how to use KB. So I was sure to mention that in one of my previous statements. However, not enough players use it correctly to justify it staying in game IMHO. Not to mention, but in late game, by the time players set up to use KB correctly, the mobs are already dead. Just seems to me (again, only my opinion) that KB was just a bad idea from its infancy.

[Auri]

The fact that we have all this knockback really just means that you have to devote one slot to a KB -> KD enhancement, at least on your AoEs.

 

This absolutely hurts the power, as we lose out on 6/6 set bonuses and, well, an enhancement that could have been something useful instead.

 

I would certainly embrace this change, but ..."ungimping"...? Bit dramatic. PBs are very strong even with this inconvenience.

[Blastit]

KB can be used correctly, but that's on the player.

 

I was fair about it, some (although not many at all) actually do know how to use KB. So I was sure to mention that in one of my previous statements. However, not enough players use it correctly to justify it staying in game IMHO. Not to mention, but in late game, by the time players set up to use KB correctly, the mobs are already dead. Just seems to me (again, only my opinion) that KB was just a bad idea from its infancy.

 

Plentiful knockback in a superhero game is a great idea. Knocking each other around is an important aspect of superpowered fights in a lot of media. The problem is often the randomness of it and that so many other powers want enemies herded up for maximal efficency. There are two designs that are simply at odds with each other. If the balance of things lay differently, people would be complaining about powers having merely knockdown or that people who want to herd and then use AoE are wasting their time.

[Galaxy Brain]

Knockback is important to the feel, but it is at odds with a ton of the game design unfortunately.

 

If Knockback had a better effect to it, like knocked enemies took bonus damage when you launch them or treat it like DnD where prone enemies are "disadvantaged" and you can kill them faster it would not only feel more impactful to knock somebody on their butt but also be more team friendly in that it is useful to all?

[Solarverse]

KB can be used correctly, but that's on the player.

 

I was fair about it, some (although not many at all) actually do know how to use KB. So I was sure to mention that in one of my previous statements. However, not enough players use it correctly to justify it staying in game IMHO. Not to mention, but in late game, by the time players set up to use KB correctly, the mobs are already dead. Just seems to me (again, only my opinion) that KB was just a bad idea from its infancy.

 

Plentiful knockback in a superhero game is a great idea. Knocking each other around is an important aspect of superpowered fights in a lot of media. The problem is often the randomness of it and that so many other powers want enemies herded up for maximal efficency. There are two designs that are simply at odds with each other. If the balance of things lay differently, people would be complaining about powers having merely knockdown or that people who want to herd and then use AoE are wasting their time.

 

I made a few threads on this during live, and I always requested an option to turn it on or off. When teaming without a Tank (had a team last night with no melee, it was all blasters, controllers and defenders.) the knock back would be welcomed. So even I would use it from time to time. Part of being a Superhero is being the master of your powers. Having no control over them makes little sense even in a comic book world of heroes. Having the option to make them knock back or knock down seems preferable here and is a good compromise.

[Redlynne]

The IDEAL solution would be a "Knock MAG on Demand" toggle that would "crimp" Knock effects to a maximum MAG.

 

Toggle on and max Knock MAG output would be limited to 0.75.

Toggle off and max Knock MAG output would not be limited.

 

That way, it becomes a question of Player Control for how much Knock they're throwing around.

Of course, every time I've suggested that option, a crowd of people cry out that then they won't be "allowed" to use Knock in team situations due to social pressures.

[Solarverse]

The IDEAL solution would be a "Knock MAG on Demand" toggle that would "crimp" Knock effects to a maximum MAG.

 

Toggle on and max Knock MAG output would be limited to 0.75.

Toggle off and max Knock MAG output would not be limited.

 

That way, it becomes a question of Player Control for how much Knock they're throwing around.

Of course, every time I've suggested that option, a crowd of people cry out that then they won't be "allowed" to use Knock in team situations due to social pressures.

 

It's somewhere around .67,  but I get what you saying. I actually support this idea. Anything that makes it an option.

[n00baka]

I don't really feel like it needs to go that far. Reducing KB to KD by default would be my ideal solution. Followed by possibly adjusting the KB Set IOs to mostly follow a 'standard' slotting of the universal damage IOs, just with the KB boosting added as an extra effect all together.

 

I think someone in this thread (or another, I'm not sure) mentioned that Knockback doesn't play well with other aspects of the game that want things bunched up. AoEs, placed powers, certain debuffing toggles, etc all want the enemies together, and Knockback kind of makes it hard to keep that happening. It's especially true for melee ATs that really just want things close. And I absolutely sympathize with both sides, I really do! I get how KB makes powers feel more powerful, and I get how gameplay is affected by the ability. I think the best of both worlds is to have a way for Knockback to be consistent, expected, and planned for as opposed to random. I don't think every power that currently has a percentile KB chance should be made 100% across the board, but I do feel like having KB and KD be a percentile chance from the beginning was a mistake.

[Desmir]

I agree the knockback to knockdown would be a huge help.I think there is another problem Peacebringers will run into. Right now if you slot the enhancment to change it to knockdown you are lowering your damage on abilities that are already some of the lowest in the game. I came across this table here that lists the damage of the powers.

 

A break down of each peacebringer power

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19VuZ9zJ_8eKN11JytgaK9mt9Fy-8pjANopb-FGh68Uw/edit#gid=145036587

 

While I would compare with energy melee it's actually not as bad as it.. But with it's already very low damage number also having to slot for knockdown drops it down even more. I think it could use some touch up on some of the powers just in general.

[Fiaryn]

Peacebringer damage is just pretty low across the board. We can overcome the knockback issue with gratuitous use of Sudden Acceleration but...yeah. Our damage just isn't good, straight up.

[Blaze]

The main problem I have with the knockback on a lot of PB powers is that they only have a chance for knockback so we can't really control or prepare for the powers' effects.  Knockback is a lot of fun and I like it on the powers, but the lack of control of that knockback does make it troublesome.  At least I can plan with my team for it when I know my powers will always scatter or have an effect.

[Leogunner]

The IDEAL solution would be a "Knock MAG on Demand" toggle that would "crimp" Knock effects to a maximum MAG.

 

Toggle on and max Knock MAG output would be limited to 0.75.

Toggle off and max Knock MAG output would not be limited.

 

That way, it becomes a question of Player Control for how much Knock they're throwing around.

Of course, every time I've suggested that option, a crowd of people cry out that then they won't be "allowed" to use Knock in team situations due to social pressures.

 

After reading the 1st 2 pages, I was coming in the thread to post that.

 

Playing my DP blasters, I do enjoy the knockback on Bullet Rain even though it's only a chance as it gives me some extra strategy to utilize on teams.  Yeah, I can just use my special ammo all the time or I can get a bit more mileage, turn special ammo off, push these guys against that wall, turn it back on and fill up my cone.  Is it more DPS? maybe not, considering I still have to reposition, but it IS more engaging and can work better into team strats.

 

I'd suggest a toggle that changes knockback to knockup but lowers the chances and a click to go with it that boosts knock-chance for a short duration...a build-up for your knockback.

[Twisted Toon]

On 5/29/2019 at 6:22 PM, The Philotic Knight said:

KB can be used correctly, but that's on the player.

This is true. For the most part, I tend to be careful with my KB. I'm not perfect by any stretch of the imagination. So, I do make some errors resulting in a miss-allocation of unexpected lateral movement for the enemy. However, the onus of mitigating KB deleterious effects doesn't fall solely on the shoulders of the one using the KB. I have run into situations where the Taunter would gather a mob into the middle of an open area away from any conceivable obstruction to help mitigate the KB. This practically neuters Agent Knockback from using any of his powers. Before you suggest it, He does not have fly and will not get Hover. It is not thematic for the character. If you don't like it, I probably wouldn't have liked teaming with you anyway.

 

 I can understand where KB could be irritating. I find myself getting irritated with the KB from my own PB Melee attacks. Mainly the ST attacks. It is very counter productive for me to punch my own target away from me. I don't, however, have as much issue with the KB from the AoEs. I'm already used to positioning myself for optimal AoE usage with other Melee characters. Positioning for beneficial KB effect is no different.

 

In my opinion, the Melee people who complain most about KB, are just lazy and won't do their part in helping to mitigate the less desired side effects.

[Bossk_Hogg]

6 hours ago, Twisted Toon said:

This is true. For the most part, I tend to be careful with my KB. I'm not perfect by any stretch of the imagination. So, I do make some errors resulting in a miss-allocation of unexpected lateral movement for the enemy. However, the onus of mitigating KB deleterious effects doesn't fall solely on the shoulders of the one using the KB. I have run into situations where the Taunter would gather a mob into the middle of an open area away from any conceivable obstruction to help mitigate the KB. This practically neuters Agent Knockback from using any of his powers. Before you suggest it, He does not have fly and will not get Hover. It is not thematic for the character. If you don't like it, I probably wouldn't have liked teaming with you anyway.

 

 I can understand where KB could be irritating. I find myself getting irritated with the KB from my own PB Melee attacks. Mainly the ST attacks. It is very counter productive for me to punch my own target away from me. I don't, however, have as much issue with the KB from the AoEs. I'm already used to positioning myself for optimal AoE usage with other Melee characters. Positioning for beneficial KB effect is no different.

 

In my opinion, the Melee people who complain most about KB, are just lazy and won't do their part in helping to mitigate the less desired side effects.

Solo, I get it can be a needed form of mitigation, but knockback isn't remotely needed on your average team. Knockback powers aren't doing more damage than other options (energy blast is pretty low on all forms of damage actually) to compensate for the extra effort they require to not directly slow down combat by scattering mobs. Basically, on a team, there is never a time I'm GLAD to see knockback, merely less annoyed. It's basically a hindrance to be overcome and chill teams put up with. 

 

Why should the melee have to "do their part" to overcome your powerset's weak design? Or anyone? I don't have to worry if inferno is going to knock stuff out of a targeted rain of arrows or have to worry if an electric blaster is going to scatter a group out of the ae debuffs that were laid down.  What makes you so special that others have to deal with your irritating power design?

 

At minimum, a null the gull option is sorely needed for peacebringers and energy blast sets, with the IO's offering granularity. The other thing needed is for mobs to take extra damage from KB, to make it worth dealing with the hassle. 

[Twisted Toon]

17 minutes ago, Bossk_Hogg said:

Solo, I get it can be a needed form of mitigation, but knockback isn't remotely needed on your average team. Knockback powers aren't doing more damage than other options (energy blast is pretty low on all forms of damage actually) to compensate for the extra effort they require to not directly slow down combat by scattering mobs. Basically, on a team, there is never a time I'm GLAD to see knockback, merely less annoyed. It's basically a hindrance to be overcome and chill teams put up with. 

 

Why should the melee have to "do their part" to overcome your powerset's weak design? Or anyone? I don't have to worry if inferno is going to knock stuff out of a targeted rain of arrows or have to worry if an electric blaster is going to scatter a group out of the ae debuffs that were laid down.  What makes you so special that others have to deal with your irritating power design?

 

At minimum, a null the gull option is sorely needed for peacebringers and energy blast sets, with the IO's offering granularity. The other thing needed is for mobs to take extra damage from KB, to make it worth dealing with the hassle. 

If you want me to use my KB in a beneficial manner, and you are the one taunting the enemy groups into a huddle, you had best make sure that that huddle is NOT in the middle of an open area. It is on you as the herder to place the mobs near obstacles that can be used to mitigate the distance that the mobs are knocked back. Otherwise, I'll just happily sit back and sponge exp off you because you can't be bothered to choose a more convenient location. That is what I mean by melee doing their part. It's really not that much, just a few more neurons being used to herd the bad guys to a better suited location. I can guarantee that I would still be doing 5 times the work (or more) setting up my KBs to be most beneficial to the team, than you would herding the mobs to a wall. And that's all I ask when I'm playing a KB centric character on a team. Herd the mobs to a wall. It's really not that hard to do for most mobs. If the team plays with a modicum of intelligence, there won't be any knocking the mobs out of ae debuffs and what not. It all comes down to location, location, location,

 

Now the reverse question for you. What makes you so special that you that you can dictate other people's power choices? Cause I know you're itching to suggest getting hover so us KB people can Hover above the mobs and knock them back into the ground.