Most useless powers in the game...

[Fan Mail]

Regarding the Group Fly power, I saw a forum post somewhat recently where a Mastermind was using this power to hold his pets into place as a means to them not randomly running up to a con and punching - namely his pet Bots I think.  I thought this was a brilliant idea - thinking outside of the box.  

 

He was borderline-griefing his team though because he was asked to turn the power off and he refused.  Not so brilliant (IMO).  

Edited December 6, 2019 by tafilr

[quixoteprog]

On 12/5/2019 at 12:55 PM, Uun said:

In terms of pool powers: Flurry (you can get Sands of Mu from the P2W vendor for free), Phase Shift, Team Teleport (it literally has a range of 25 feet). Not sure they're all useless, but I don't think I've ever seen anyone with anything from the Presence Pool. Not useless for masterminds, but Group Fly is guaranteed to piss off your teammates.

 

Flurry gets a lot of hate, and in general I agree. And in general, yeah, it does suck. But I think it actually has a pretty low endurance cost per point of damage. And while its activation time is long it recharges pretty quick and can fit into an attack chain. So, in the rare situation where you need an extra attack, and you are starved for endurance, and just happen to have, by chance, taken Hasten, like 90% of builds do, it is not awful.

[Call Me Awesome]

In my opinion here's the worst offenders:

 

Black Hole and similar enemy phase shift powers need to die in a fire after being castrated.  Nothing else I've ever teamed with is worse.  Playing Solo they MIGHT have some small utility but on a team they're totally worthless and impede the team greatly.  Expect to be kicked from any team after using one of those powers.

 

Group Fly and Team TP are so incredibly situational and detrimental on most teams that they're all but worthless.  They're ONLY useful if you run a static team and everyone's built for and plays around them.  Otherwise they're a team griefing tool that will likely get you kicked.

 

Fallout from the Radiation Emission set.  Yes, I know it does good damage but it's so situational that you won't use it much.  First, you have to have a teammate die in a group of enemies.  Second, you have to get in range of him and set off Fallout before he rezzes or you die yourself.  Third, you have to do this before most of the mobs die or disperse.  It isn't a bad power but the times I've seen it used successfully are very few and far between... your power and slot choices are almost certainly better spent elsewhere.

 

As mentioned the Presence pool isn't often very useful; the AT's it can benefit already have better tools in their primary and secondary.

 

In my experience with leveling 3 Stalkers to 50 I find that Placate is very limited in it's use, it hides you but it doesn't shed aggro from anything other than the target so you'll still get attacked by the rest of the spawn.  I've decided that the conventional wisdom is correct and there's better power choices for you.  A long animation while you're getting pounded on that gets broken if they land a hit and only affects one mob isn't a high performer.

 

Powers with significant AOE knock back are problematic unless handled well; you'll want to be careful with them or turn them into knock DOWN powers with a proc.  They aren't (mostly) useless but they do require careful handling to avoid seriously annoying your team.

 

Most power sets have one or two substandard powers in them, if you aren't familiar with the set then it's a good idea to ask in the AT specific forum about it.

[Traegus]

4 hours ago, Call Me Awesome said:

In my opinion here's the worst offenders:

 

Black Hole and similar enemy phase shift powers need to die in a fire after being castrated.  Nothing else I've ever teamed with is worse.  Playing Solo they MIGHT have some small utility but on a team they're totally worthless and impede the team greatly.  Expect to be kicked from any team after using one of those powers.

 

 

you are aware that black hole was changed, and the phase shift works differently now? it creates a field, wherein the baddies are phased to the "outside" world and can't attack/be attacked, but you can enter the field at will and then attack them, making this much more useful for segregating a crowded battle field if things start to overwhelm your team. also works great if you wormhole a spawn in the black hole, adding dazed stumbling to their predicament.

[Goddamage]

Thanks, everyone. Great advice, all around.

I was just asking, because, as we all know, you rarely create a character that uses all the primary and secondary powers if you plan on using any Pool or Ancillary/Epic powers... sacrifices have to be made. I do have to say, with Ninja Run, I have started skipping Super Speed/Super Jump and Fly on most builds. Ninja Run seems to get me where I need to go fast enough. I also tend to skip Placate and Taunt powers. If I'm gonna fight something, I'm gonna fight it. I'm sure there are situations where those are useful, but again, if I want some Pool or Ancillary/Epic powers, sacrifices have to be made.

That said, to be honest, I've never lvl'd a toon high enough to even get to the Ancillary/Epic powers, and a lot of times, on my character builder, if I pick any of those, it's usually just whatever fits the "theme" of that particular character, if something like that is available. Thoughts on those? Are any of the Ancillary/Epic powers "must have" or "don't bother?" Or are they just "Eh, if you want. Depends on the build/situation."?

[SeraphimKensai]

For me I dislike a lot of powers with really long animations. If I get killed because I'm stuck in an animation it is not fun. A prime example is the energy melee power set in general, or neutron bomb in rad blast.

[SaddestGhost]

1 hour ago, Traegus said:

you are aware that black hole was changed, and the phase shift works differently now? it creates a field, wherein the baddies are phased to the "outside" world and can't attack/be attacked, but you can enter the field at will and then attack them, making this much more useful for segregating a crowded battle field if things start to overwhelm your team. also works great if you wormhole a spawn in the black hole, adding dazed stumbling to their predicament.

The last time I fooled with Black Hole it was still a click power that phases enemies for a fixed duration.  Wormhole, as I recall, became a targeted toggle when Gravity got a minor revamp that introduced impact damage. To my knowledge, they currently behave differently with Black Hole still being very unwieldy.

Edited December 7, 2019 by SaddestGhost

[KnightSoul]

Kinetics: Repel.  Blech.   Such an endurance pig even the Empress of Endurance set can't afford to run the toggle.  And multiple kin powers heavily reward being in the scrum for use, like effin' Transference, making it counterproductive too.  Kiss your endurance goodbye if you so much as brush something that resists its KB!  It would be so much more useful as a click power.

 

Worth using on Test Server for Bowling for Skuls though.  Have you ragdolled all of Perez Park today? 

[Clave Dark 5]

6 minutes ago, KnightSoul said:

Kinetics: Repel.  Blech.   Such an endurance pig even the Empress of Endurance set can't afford to run the toggle.  And multiple kin powers heavily reward being in the scrum for use, like effin' Transference, making it counterproductive too.  Kiss your endurance goodbye if you so much as brush something that resists its KB!  It would be so much more useful as a click power.

 

Worth using on Test Server for Bowling for Skuls though.  Have you ragdolled all of Perez Park today? 

I took Repulsion Field on my FF MM for lack of anything else.  I mean, I guess I could have taken Hasten but I really didn't feel like he needed any help there), and other than that very occasional panic button....  (I hate panic button powers anyway).

[SaintD]

Now we have seventy billion attack powers to use at level 1 if we want them.....

 

Brawl.

[Outrider_01]

Yeah yeah, Group Fly is a griefing tool

 

1. Pull head out of butt

2. Move said butt to Pocket D

3. Look for a bird on a truck, villian side just off the dance floor. Name is Null the Gull

4. ???

5.  PROFIT!!!  Disable team travel powers.  Yes, you have to do it for each of your toons, but there is no option for the guy with the Group Fly to limit to homself and pets.  No option for a MM power as well. 

 

But hell, it is really his fault you can't show initiative to solve your migraine of a problem with his power choice.  Not like I can disable 90% of the costumes that are ugly or rip off characters.

[eknudson]

6 hours ago, SaintD said:

Now we have seventy billion attack powers to use at level 1 if we want them.....

 

Brawl.

And my brute disagrees vehemently. 

[Call Me Awesome]

6 hours ago, Outrider_01 said:

Yeah yeah, Group Fly is a griefing tool

 

1. Pull head out of butt

2. Move said butt to Pocket D

3. Look for a bird on a truck, villian side just off the dance floor. Name is Null the Gull

4. ???

5.  PROFIT!!!  Disable team travel powers.  Yes, you have to do it for each of your toons, but there is no option for the guy with the Group Fly to limit to homself and pets.  No option for a MM power as well. 

 

But hell, it is really his fault you can't show initiative to solve your migraine of a problem with his power choice.  Not like I can disable 90% of the costumes that are ugly or rip off characters.

Yes, it really is.  Just how much of the player base has done that?  I stand by my statement, it's a griefing tool outside of specialized static teams.

 

If you're going to use it then let the team know and tell them to talk to Null about it.  I've played since long before the bird was introduced, I knew it was there and some of it's abilities but I was not aware of that.  I was unaware of the Group Fly thing and I'll wager most of the player base is likewise unaware of it.

 

Want to know another solution to the GF griefer?  /kick.  Much easier on the entire team.  If it's the team lead?  /quit.

[Gulbasaur]

21 hours ago, Call Me Awesome said:

As mentioned the Presence pool isn't often very useful; the AT's it can benefit already have better tools in their primary and secondary.

Provoke is that taunt I took at 50 on my widow that allows me to tank somewhat efficiently and I think the latter powers are pretty decent. The widow alternative is single-target and ain't nobody got time for that. The 5-target taunt is a teammate-saver and I use it all the time of my fortunata. 

[Call Me Awesome]

22 minutes ago, Gulbasaur said:

Provoke is that taunt I took at 50 on my widow that allows me to tank somewhat efficiently and I think the latter powers are pretty decent. The widow alternative is single-target and ain't nobody got time for that. The 5-target taunt is a teammate-saver and I use it all the time of my fortunata. 

You're the exception to the rule then.  It's a weaker version of Taunt that Tanks and Brutes have... relatively few other characters ever play the aggro magnet role.  I assume you had everything solid in your build and a free pool so you had a slot to devote to an edge case?

 

I don't look on Presence as a bad pool per se, it's just generally redundant.

[Redlynne]

Provoke needs 1 Accuracy, after which you can add in 1 Perfect Zinger proc for a 25.33% chance to deal 71.75 Psionic damage to up to 5 $Targets within 15ft of your selected $Target at a cost of ZERO Endurance (so damage per endurance is a divide by zero error).  So for +1 slot you can turn Provoke into a damage dealing Target AoE Taunt.

 

Invoke Panic needs 1 Accuracy, after which you can add in 1 Glimpse of the Abyss proc for a 21.48% chance to deal 71.75 Psionic damage to up to 10 $Targets within 20ft of your PC at a cost of 18 endurance.  So for +1 slot you can turn Invoke Panic into a damage dealing PBAoE Fear.

 

Unrelenting can be slotted with 2 Recharge 50+5 IOs and have a recharge of under 180s with Hasten and ~80% global recharge from set bonuses ... giving you a self-heal/self-rez power if your primary/secondary/tertiary powersets don't offer you one that you'd want to use.  So for +1 slot you can have Unrelenting on a pretty decent uptime.  The uptime on Unrelenting only gets better when blended with Click powers such as Chronoshift, Overgrowth and/or Power Boost(!) as well as Auto powers such as Quickness/Lightning Reflexes.

 

1 Pool.

3 Power picks.

1-3 added slots.

... just add Hasten and lots of recharge set bonuses.

 

Pretty decent return for so minimalist an investment.

[drbuzzard]

Oh yea, forgot Omega Maneuver. It's a nuke. However, it doesn't do nuke damage, and has twice the recharge. It's simply full of win.

[Myrmidon]

11 hours ago, Redlynne said:

Provoke needs 1 Accuracy, after which you can add in 1 Perfect Zinger proc for a 25.33% chance to deal 71.75 Psionic damage to up to 5 $Targets within 15ft of your selected $Target at a cost of ZERO Endurance (so damage per endurance is a divide by zero error).  So for +1 slot you can turn Provoke into a damage dealing Target AoE Taunt.

 

Invoke Panic needs 1 Accuracy, after which you can add in 1 Glimpse of the Abyss proc for a 21.48% chance to deal 71.75 Psionic damage to up to 10 $Targets within 20ft of your PC at a cost of 18 endurance.  So for +1 slot you can turn Invoke Panic into a damage dealing PBAoE Fear.

 

Unrelenting can be slotted with 2 Recharge 50+5 IOs and have a recharge of under 180s with Hasten and ~80% global recharge from set bonuses ... giving you a self-heal/self-rez power if your primary/secondary/tertiary powersets don't offer you one that you'd want to use.  So for +1 slot you can have Unrelenting on a pretty decent uptime.  The uptime on Unrelenting only gets better when blended with Click powers such as Chronoshift, Overgrowth and/or Power Boost(!) as well as Auto powers such as Quickness/Lightning Reflexes.

 

1 Pool.

3 Power picks.

1-3 added slots.

... just add Hasten and lots of recharge set bonuses.

 

Pretty decent return for so minimalist an investment.

Too bad I never have room anymore. I sometimes miss the Presence pool.

[Myrmidon]

19 hours ago, Outrider_01 said:

Not like I can disable 90% of the costumes that are ugly or rip off characters.

If only...

[Myrmidon]

On 12/6/2019 at 3:42 PM, Call Me Awesome said:

Fallout from the Radiation Emission set.  Yes, I know it does good damage but it's so situational that you won't use it much.  First, you have to have a teammate die in a group of enemies.  Second, you have to get in range of him and set off Fallout before he rezzes or you die yourself.  Third, you have to do this before most of the mobs die or disperse.  It isn't a bad power but the times I've seen it used successfully are very few and far between... your power and slot choices are almost certainly better spent elsewhere.

It’s shit. Go ahead, you can say it.😁

[Haijinx]

18 minutes ago, Myrmidon said:

If only...

yeah but City of Heroes with all those naked comic book clones? 

[Gulbasaur]

13 hours ago, Call Me Awesome said:

It's a weaker version of Taunt that Tanks and Brutes have... 

Yes, that's the point. It's a version of a power that ten archetypes don't have (both Kheldian archetypes have a similar power). 

 

This game is all about soft control and combat flow manipulation (that's what tanks do), so being able to yank five enemies off an ally is incredibly useful. In a post-IO universe, even controllers can pick up scrapper levels of damage mitigation, which opens up a huge amount of room for build flexibility. My widow can tank about as well as my brute and provoke is a one-slot wonder (with Perfect Zinger making it into an attack) for making that easier. 

[Outrider_01]

14 hours ago, Call Me Awesome said:

Yes, it really is.  Just how much of the player base has done that?  I stand by my statement, it's a griefing tool outside of specialized static teams.

 

If you're going to use it then let the team know and tell them to talk to Null about it.  I've played since long before the bird was introduced, I knew it was there and some of it's abilities but I was not aware of that.  I was unaware of the Group Fly thing and I'll wager most of the player base is likewise unaware of it.

 

Want to know another solution to the GF griefer?  /kick.  Much easier on the entire team.  If it's the team lead?  /quit.

It isn't griefing, that is implied as usually going out of your way to intentionally cause a trouble to another player. A game like Ever Quest 1 in 1999, usually meant intentionally pulling a massive train of NPC on anothen player or group; while they are killing them same player pulls more; rinse and repeat until everyone is dead.  This player enjoys causing grief, call them a troll like modern internet douche canoes.

 

In the case of this mastermind, it is a tool for him to counter shit AI by design from the developer.  Its a smart way that they figured out how to counter that shit AI.  Can you at least understand that?

 

Might as well boot masterminds because of their pets.  Ever play with 3 of them and no, thats not the total number of pets....thats the amount of MM with ALL of their pets.  And enjoy playing a kinetic, thank god whiney lazy ass players had to make Cryptic/NSOFT/Paragon Studios make the game easier; one cast of SPEED BOOST and its like a Bingo ball tumbler.  Wait, lets boot all kinetics cause the player base used to whine about collision issues.

 

Fuck it, boot all incarnates who run paper missions in PI, to damn easy and annoying when you can't do any thing.

 

Boot anyone without leader ship, cause all players pussed out to easy mode "I don't and wanna get hit" need massive recharge to squeeze in everything they can with that Gambler plus every bonus they can.

 

Boot any healer, cause everyone is nearly unstoppable superman and don't need them.

 

Boot dominators, got more powerful control not tied to a click and comes with buffs.  Hell, dominator are a blaster-comtroller-hybrid;  blasters have weak ass control but those range/melee powers and massively useless control power cause an actual controllers come with buffs better then crappy melee blast hybrids.

 

Boot blasters, corrupte inherent is better and comes with buffs. 

 

Boot brutes when you need actual tanks and boot tanks when you need easy mode reliable scrappers with more hitpoints and damage not reliant on a RNJesus roll.

 

Boot scrappers, see above.

 

Boot stalkers cause ninja assassin concept = shit when you got Hulk-Blob melee or scrappers.

 

Boot blasters, Sentinels are watered down but come with status protection.

 

Boot defender, see corrupter and blaster as better range damage and one has buffs.

 

See, I too can come up with lazy crazy reasons to exclude people more based on their class AT instead of ONE POWER YOU CAN'T DEAL WITH. 

 

Is Group fly annoying? Yes.

Is it griefing? No

Creative way to use shit AI pets? Yes

Annoying to use Null Bird?  Yes

Should you go to the bird? No.

Personal MM GF or power to restrain Pets? Yes.

 

Understand from their point of view first instead of bitching about something you can't handle on a personal level.

[tidge]

On 12/7/2019 at 7:45 AM, Outrider_01 said:

Yeah yeah, Group Fly is a griefing tool

 

1. Pull head out of butt

2. Move said butt to Pocket D

3. Look for a bird on a truck, villian side just off the dance floor. Name is Null the Gull

4. ???

5.  PROFIT!!!  Disable team travel powers.  Yes, you have to do it for each of your toons, but there is no option for the guy with the Group Fly to limit to homself and pets.  No option for a MM power as well. 

 

But hell, it is really his fault you can't show initiative to solve your migraine of a problem with his power choice.  Not like I can disable 90% of the costumes that are ugly or rip off characters.

/agree x10.

 

If you are a player that feels that Group Fly is griefing, go to Null the Gull and make your choices. I've been surprised to see non-MMS take it, but it does offer a pretty fast flight with an excellent amount of control so I can see some appeal for non-MMs.

 

20 hours ago, Gulbasaur said:

Provoke is that taunt I took at 50 on my widow that allows me to tank somewhat efficiently and I think the latter powers are pretty decent. The widow alternative is single-target and ain't nobody got time for that. The 5-target taunt is a teammate-saver and I use it all the time of my fortunata. 

/echo. I have Provoke as the choice of taunt on one of my Night Widow's 'shallow in the Presence pool' builds for the exact reason that it is multi-target option. The Fortunata certainly could use it for the same reason, but she made a different choice:

 

I've also chosen Pacify (on the 'deep into Presence pool' Fortunata build that has plenty of other means of grabbing aggro), and I will admit that this entry power into the Presence pool is of limited use. If only it would allow Widows to get 'Hidden' status! That being written, there are a couple of situations when I find myself using it:

 

1) Boss+ fights. The Fortunata build with Pacify is short of perma Mind Link, and Pacify keeps the biggest thing from attacking until I can re-fire Mind link (or whatever else).

 

2) At low levels because that Fortunata build is going deep into the Presence pool, Pacify is chosen at lvl 14. That build doesn't pick up it's 5th dedicated 'attack' until level 32, so Pacify is used as one more means of slowing down incoming attacks from large enemy groups, if necessary. Often it is not necessary, but I've found it being used against groups like Freakshow which have the chance to self-rez, as the self-rez can really break up the flow of solo combat.

[Outrider_01]

On 12/6/2019 at 11:22 AM, tafilr said:

He was borderline-griefing his team though because he was asked to turn the power off and he refused.  Not so brilliant (IMO).  

No, the people are over reacting.  There are 2 problems

 

1. MM can't control his pet because of shit AI, uses group fly to counter it.

2. Whiney players who can't spend 5 mins running to Pocket D and talking to a bird.

 

Now, with out GF the first problem cannot be solved; namely the shit AI.

Now, with the second problem of "over reacting whiny griefing" caused by GF can easily be solved.  5. Fucking. Minutes. Of. Your. Life.  

 

Get it?  Yes, it is annoying AF to be caught by that power.  Its also annoying AF for you stupid bots to have the AI of a Contaminated in Outbreak.  Both problems can be solved easily, GF to counter bot melee and GF being canceled by talking to an ugly ass graphic bird.  Only takes a little bit of effort, hell the MM has to waste several power picks to get GF where as the whiny players only have to spend a few minutes per toon to turn it off.; which is the bigger trade off?

 

Also, teach the others how to cancel ALL of the powers they don't like while there is only a limited list to pick from.  Otherwise you got a useless player who got exiled by some asshole or the MM can pretend to be a crappy scrapper-blaster hybrid just to save endurance on useless pets that die to AV stomps.