QOL: Undo the Regen Nerf

[MetaVileTerror]

Similar, aye, although I think my suggestion has the allure of simplicity to it.  At its most core element, this suggestion is tweaking two values in Revive, and everything else is candy.  Your suggestion would require the creation of an entirely new power.
Now, I'm not against your suggestion; I happen to think a LOT of Sets could use overhauls on that level.  But I think the Homecoming design philosophy (or at least what I've been able to piece together from the lack of hard evidence provided) is that the Devs here want to change as little as possible.  At least as little as possible in their perspective.  That philosophy seems to be shared with a lot of the player-base who continue to stay here, while other servers out there take more drastic action on changing Powers and Power Sets. 

Alternatively, people may not have liked the idea of Revive being the Tier 1 Power, since getting defeated doesn't happen quite as frequently at lower levels.  Maybe if it were the Tier 5 or 6 they'd like it better.  

[Replacement]

On 12/12/2019 at 5:47 AM, Bentley Berkeley said:

Frankly Im not sure why people have an issue with getting incapped now and then, especially self rezzers, wolverine and other comic characters best moments are pretty much always begun with getting beat down.

 

On 12/12/2019 at 6:55 AM, MetaVileTerror said:

Call me crazy, but maybe what the Regeneration Set needs is permission to be defeated all the time.  

 

It really is all about Debt.  Even knowing Debt doesn't actually matter, Debt is still a way for the game to tell you you soft-failed. 

If Debt was shifted entirely to "on-stand-up" (amount depending on revive method), you would see a lot more people embracing Vengeance, etc.   A probably-easier way to program it at this point would be to have an active debt-subtraction component to certain powers, with Fire and Regen always removing one full death's worth (just use the same formula for calculating debt based on character level, multiply the value by -1).

 

As for making zombie tactics Regen's thing... I'm ok with encouraging them to not feel bad when they fall down.  But I would really rather see them get a bunch of debuff resist and an Absorb shield.

 

We want to talk about how epic it is when Wolverine stands back up... but be careful about turning Regen characters into Worf (WARNING: THAT'S A TV TROPES LINK).

Edited December 15, 2019 by Replacement

[MetaVileTerror]

I'm okay with Regen being TNG Worf.

[Replacement]

3 minutes ago, MetaVileTerror said:

I'm okay with Regen being TNG Worf.

Oh in that case!  We don't need to buff Regen. 😛 

(I kid)

[MetaVileTerror]

Come now!  They buffed Worf for DS9.  Let's buff Regen for Homecoming!

[Replacement]

Also, this does make me kind of really want a Reanimation Armor Necromancy Manipulation set.

Edited December 14, 2019 by Replacement

[0th Power]

This thread got me to roll a Regen stalker and I’d say it’s been more durable than I anticipated.  The only thing regeneration needs on stalkers is endurance recovery, maybe add it to fast healing  

[Dragon Crush]

20 minutes ago, 0th Power said:

This thread got me to roll a Regen stalker and I’d say it’s been more durable than I anticipated.  The only thing regeneration needs on stalkers is endurance recovery, maybe add it to fast healing  

Problem there is you rolled a stalker. Regen gets quick recovery (second slightly better version of stamina) but stalkers trade it out for hide.

[0th Power]

14 minutes ago, Dragon Crush said:

Problem there is you rolled a stalker. Regen gets quick recovery (second slightly better version of stamina) but stalkers trade it out for hide.

I was aware of that. I think stalkers should have +recovery as well as hide

[Galaxy Brain]

Does regen's quick recovery give more than Inexhaustible and the Radiation +Rec?

[Haijinx]

1 hour ago, Galaxy Brain said:

Does regen's quick recovery give more than Inexhaustible and the Radiation +Rec?

Its exactly the same as WPs just comes earlier

[Haijinx]

3 hours ago, Dragon Crush said:

Problem there is you rolled a stalker. Regen gets quick recovery (second slightly better version of stamina) but stalkers trade it out for hide.

Interestingly EnA gives up nothing on a Stalker really, and has its full End tools.

[Replacement]

3 hours ago, Haijinx said:

Interestingly EnA gives up nothing on a Stalker really, and has its full End tools.

Well yeah... EA has a cloak move regardless of AT, so it's an easy trade for Hide.

 

I also want to double down on Regen resisting debuffs, and perhaps status effects as well (in addition to status protection).

 

Unlike other sets that have 1-2 debuffs they thematically resist (like EA resisting end drain and defense debuffs, iirc), I think it makes sense for Regen to push through everything.

[Galaxy Brain]

3 hours ago, Haijinx said:

Its exactly the same as WPs just comes earlier

Right, but I meant compared to the bio and rad recovery auto powers that also give regen 

[Dragon Crush]

Bio's inexhaustible is less regen and less recovery than fast healing and quick recovery if efficient isn't running, but it also has +hp, slow resist and -recovery/-end drain resist which regen lacks. Rad's recovery and regen scales depending on your HP,  so how it compares to regen depends on what your HP is at.  It does have lower -regen resist (although it get's more -regen resist in another power), but much better -recovery/end drain resist. Given healing flames also refreshes faster than reconstitution, I don't think there is any single aspect of healing/recovery another set doesn't do better than regen, it's only bonus is it combines a bunch of healing.

[Haijinx]

Its almost like Regen was really good.

 

Then they over nerfed it.

 

Then instead of admitting it they came out with Willpower.   Which is really good.  

 

So Regen did get fixed.  The thing is, to play the fixed Regen, you have to play Willpower. 

[Galaxy Brain]

I mean sorta. WP is a better "I have a natural healing factor" set, while Regen is more like "I'm the bad guy from terminator 2" set where you have unnaturally quick damage recovery.

 

WP trades some of it's "nickel and dime immunity" for the ability to help vs Alphas which Regen is more extreme against in both directions. Having the ability for Regen to tank an alpha every so often or with prep of some kind (like building up an absorb barrier over time) I think would be thematic and still set it apart from WP.

[Haijinx]

6 hours ago, Galaxy Brain said:

I mean sorta. WP is a better "I have a natural healing factor" set, while Regen is more like "I'm the bad guy from terminator 2" set where you have unnaturally quick damage recovery.

 

WP trades some of it's "nickel and dime immunity" for the ability to help vs Alphas which Regen is more extreme against in both directions. Having the ability for Regen to tank an alpha every so often or with prep of some kind (like building up an absorb barrier over time) I think would be thematic and still set it apart from WP.

That's just flavor text though.  WP is functionally Regenerating.  

 

And its easy to fix the "weak to alpha" problem WP supposedly has with IOs. 

[Rigged]

7 hours ago, Galaxy Brain said:

I mean sorta. WP is a better "I have a natural healing factor" set, while Regen is more like "I'm the bad guy from terminator 2" set where you have unnaturally quick damage recovery.

 

WP trades some of it's "nickel and dime immunity" for the ability to help vs Alphas which Regen is more extreme against in both directions. Having the ability for Regen to tank an alpha every so often or with prep of some kind (like building up an absorb barrier over time) I think would be thematic and still set it apart from WP.

People who play regen over WP and then complain it sucks are too attached to the powerset name.

 

History lesson here: Regen was not supposed to ever be changed. It is not supposed to have additional mitigation. It is not supposed to be buffed.

 

The reason is why we have willpower. Regen was one of the most controversial powersets because of the binary nature of its mitigation. Either your regen exceeds incoming damage or it doesn't; if it does you are unkillable and if it doesn't you die pretty much instantly.

 

So Cryptic (and later Paragon) nerfed and buffed regen over and over. But tons of people didn't want change, especially those who got used to the clickies. So instead, they made a new set, with a complete rework, giving it scaling regen (to combat the binary problem), resists and defense. And to add to the number of "natural" sets they called it Willpower. Willpower is what regen would look like if it were properly reworked, which is why both sets are so similar. Willpower is the Regen that works.

 

Regen is supposed to be sort of a legacy set, and hence is not supposed to be changed. In fact, they added a new version of regen, Bio Armour, which is regen but with more adaptability. You can play that instead if you want.

 

What people need to do is get off this obsession with the powerset names, and just pick Bio or Willpower. You are no less Wolverine or Deadpool (be honest here, most regen players are trying to be one of those two, often with the costume and knockoff name) just because you went claws/willpower instead of claws/regen. in fact by asking for a rework you will be screwing over the few who still like regen the way it is.

Edited December 15, 2019 by Rigged

[Seed22]

On 12/12/2019 at 4:47 AM, Bentley Berkeley said:

Some other things to keep in mind, Regen has recovery few other sets can compare with, this lets them use leadership toggles better then most. This means vengeance is an easy grab, since leadership has 2 powers that can take lotg recharge specials its really a pool worth taking, and a regen should be leading the charges fearlessly and pushing a pace that will likely get others killed now and then to veng off of. Sets with self res like regen are also expected to be downed more often then other sets by design. Frankly Im not sure why people have an issue with getting incapped now and then, especially self rezzers, wolverine and other comic characters best moments are pretty much always begun with getting beat down.

 

Oh and I myself do not use non attuned IO sets, honestly on the HC servers the cost is really not any higher then crafting non attuned yourself especially when you factor in mat and time costs. So exemping is not any kind of big deal.  I literally sell every drop and liquidate every merit into inf, it keeps the game time almost entirely as actively playing or RPing and hanging out. No need to horde, no need to do anything but just enjoy the actual game.

 

Now if you all really think regen some super bad set well your not alone, it became a common and very wrong impression many had after Will Power was added. Funny enough most will power users also tend to be bad at the game. They tend to be the rush in without thought and want to face tank everything and think the game is bad when they cant types ime. Will Power to me is a tank set, but the vast majority of WP users Ive seen on live and on HC face plant more then bad regen users.

 

But its all about synergy between the primary and 2ndary. I keep saying this and people keep ignoring it, every set by design has an optimal pairing. For regen its got a few, kat,bs, regen, ma, claws all pair extremely well with regen built around heavy global recharge.

 

Oh and ofcourse scrappers dont dish it out like mass murder blasters in end game. Thats not some flaw, thats not imbalance. A scrapper should have to spend much more time then a blaster wiping out hordes, thats why they get the defense set not another dmg set as a 2ndary. I mean its not some mystery, if your biggest interest is big numbers on big groups play a blaster. My scrappers are first and foremost all AV killer builds, my blasters can typically solo some AVs but not every one of them in the game let alone as many as a dozen at once like a Dark/SR scrapper can.

 

I can promise you when i run an inc trial on a scrapper the DPS is very relevant in the beat down phase of the big bads, and judgement exists to wipe out large groups of trash. I mean its not a solo thing, not everyone needs to be a mass murder build to bring something useful to the trial.

 

Regen is actually one of the best designed and best balanced sets in the game, it can be great or it can be garbage depending on the builder/player using it. Its not an auto I win button, but it also isnt some newb trap power set. It pairs with a wider range of offense sets then many other offense sets which is makes it really quite newb friendly.

Well that's rich. My first ever 50 was a NB/Regen stalker. Regen is good...for stalkers and sents. It can be made to work with IO'ing for scraps and with EVEN MORE IO'ing, brutes. But it's really, imo, best on stalkers. Also, most WP players are really good, I've encountered, and rarely die. Maybe it's an everlasting thing to not have good WP, I dunno, but even then I doubt it. I also have a SJ/WP whose very sturdy and can take alphas very well AND kill on top of it. Regen is not one of the best balanced sets. That's again, WP.

[Darkneblade]

Bumping because it is monday.

Also buff regen..
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Then nerf it into ground again.

[Greycat]

"The" regen nerf.

 

*chuckles.*

[Vanden]

9 minutes ago, Darkneblade said:

Bumping because it is monday.

Look at fancy pants here, posting from the future! or perhaps somewhere in Asia

[Haijinx]

2 hours ago, Vanden said:

Look at fancy pants here, posting from the future! or perhaps somewhere in Asia

Nerf Time Travel

[EmmySky]

I thought Tuesday was nerf regen day.  So Monday is buff regen day?  Why arent these on the calendar to remind me? 

 

Nerf regen then buff it then nerf it.  I think I am covered for this week, yes?  😝