The time has come to fix AoE Holds/Mezzes

[Super Atom]

You're still looking at IO's for balance and again thats not how it will ever be done, especially since with IO's you will already perma stunlock a group. So you're basically saying you'd MORE perma stunning a group? I get what you're driving at but with IO's this is already a thing. The entire encounter those enemies will be held followed by dead.  Yes this would make it easier to achieve with IO's and thats no good for a difficulty thing but balance isn't in IO's no matter how much you want to think it should be and again, this change will never happen so this is mostly a moot point to be making.

 

and if your fights aren't going that way when IO'd as a controller, you're bad and should reroll into something easier.

Edited December 29, 2019 by Super Atom

[Crysta Clear]

No, it would make it possible to achieve with IOs in only one power. As it stands with 240 / 14.9...

http://prntscr.com/qh18ba

 

...the same build and the same bonuses get to 60.96 / 31.42, barely over 50% uptime. You need two AoE hard controls to alternate if you want to keep a group locked down forever. Redlynne's dumb idea would make 100% uptime a one-power thing.

 

I will always look at IOs for balance, because quite frankly? It's still a part of the game that needs consideration, especially since the base power stats you're asking to have buffed will affect both early- and late-game balance.

[Shadowsleuth]

Developer Captain Powerhouse's post on how the Devs balance the game in regards to SO's & IO's.

 

Quote

There is a misconception here: the game is balanced in such a way that’s SO builds should be able to complete all non-incarnate content, solo or in team. This does not mean x8+4, though.

 

That being said, the devs kept spreadsheets that showed they always attempted to account for things like hasten running all the time, or having weave/tough/combat jump/etc.

 

They always thrived to make the sets “balanced” in an SO world but also at least tried (with their limited tools) to control what happened when other things came into play. Balancing towards SO does not mean ignoring IOs or pools.

https://forums.homecomingservers.com/topic/10046-focused-feedback-tank-updates/?do=findComment&comment=93914

 

[Super Atom]

Of course, nobody is saying ignore IO's entirely. Just balancing the whole game around them is a bad idea.

[Crysta Clear]

Then why are we still talking?

 

I repeat and reiterate: do not buff anything. The game is already plenty easy enough as it is. Any buffs, no matter where or what gets buffed, will only serve to make the game even easier, and the easier something gets, the less fun it is because the less you have to think about how you play.

Edited December 29, 2019 by Crysta Clear

[Super Atom]

So you think assault rifle is just all good and dandy.

 

assault rifle sucks bro

Edited December 29, 2019 by Super Atom

[Crysta Clear]

I think it's fine. I'd rather have all ranged sets nerfed to equal Assault Rifle than to have Assault Rifle buffed to match other ranged sets. And it's probably not anywhere near as bad as you think, because quite frankly? You haven't proven to me that thinking is your strong suit.

 

And I'm not your "bro," Zephyr. I'm a woman.

Edited December 29, 2019 by Crysta Clear

[Super Atom]

Just now, Crysta Clear said:

I think it's fine. I'd rather have all ranged sets nerfed to equal Assault Rifle than to have Assault Rifle buffed to match other ranged sets. And it's probably not anywhere near as bad as you think, because quite frankly? You haven't proven to me that thinking is your strong suit.

Why? Because i understand the direction of the easiest fucking mmo on the market was taking? You seem to barely understand how it fucking functions let alone how it should be balanced. "Oh no if you buff this it'll perma hold a mob" spoilers you already do unless you mez it and then just stare it. Regardless of how many times anyone told you they were discussing SO tier timers, you kept rambling on about IO's as if you can't even read. With IO's you can break this game in ways the devs didn't even know possible. IO's are so fucking broken a blaster can tank +4/x8 with no issues and nuke every single mob, mezzing be damned. You bark and whine about how it's too easy yet you think buffing some dumbass ability by 1 minute and thusly letting scrubs have an easier time would somehow make your already broken character more broken. Your characters either suck or you just don't know how to play if you aren't already soloing this games highest content as if it the enemies were conning grey.

[Crysta Clear]

No, because you're refusing to understand that SO balance doesn't matter. There is no relevant balance at "SO-tier." There isn't even an "SO-tier," since you should be getting attuned set IOs while you're levelling! Set IOs aren't even a 50-only or late-game thing. Set IOs are available from very early levels. LotG can be slotted at 22nd. ATOs at 10th. So kindly take your "game is balanced around SO's" garbage and climb in the dumpster with it.

Edited December 29, 2019 by Crysta Clear

[Super Atom]

And again you can't read and miss entirely that this game is not designed for min maxers. This game is designed so that the casual player with 100 alts can jump into any content and do well. You also don't seem to remember on live when a good IO build costed somwhere in the 5-6 billion influence that normal people couldn't afford. Theres a reason HC made it so easy, for casual players to keep up with the neck beards(and lady neckbeards). Seriously, i can't explain this to you any further. If you can't read i cannot help you. Goodluck to you though, i think we've run our course in talking with each other.

Edited December 29, 2019 by Super Atom

[Crysta Clear]

I understand what you're saying just fine. I just think it's garbage. Stop sucking at the game and stop asking for buffs. Don't even bother replying, I'm blocking you at this point.

[boggo2300]

20 minutes ago, Super Atom said:

So you think assault rifle is just all good and dandy.

 

assault rifle sucks bro

Assault rifle kicks ass, seriously so, if you think otherwise, er I dunno whats wrong with you

[boggo2300]

19 minutes ago, Crysta Clear said:

I think it's fine. I'd rather have all ranged sets nerfed to equal Assault Rifle than to have Assault Rifle buffed to match other ranged sets. And it's probably not anywhere near as bad as you think, because quite frankly? You haven't proven to me that thinking is your strong suit.

 

And I'm not your "bro," Zephyr. I'm a woman.

AR doesn't need buffing at all, it's setup differently than other ranged sets, and if played how it's meant to it kicks serious butt!  playing different is something a lot of people seem to be unable to grasp

[GM Miss]

Hey guys! 

 

You have made some great suggestions thus far - let me just remind you that constructive debate is encouraged - but lets always be kind! 

 

Thank you!

[boggo2300]

Just now, CR Miss said:

Hey guys! 

 

You have made some great suggestions thus far - let me just remind you that constructive debate is encouraged - but lets always be kind! 

 

Thank you!

I struggle when someone disses my beloved AR!!!  

[GM Miss]

I feel you, I have some things I am personally passionate about in game too - but at the end of the day - we are all players who love the game! 😄

[Super Atom]

Since i'm blocked and that trog can't respond anyway, I'm not asking for buffs nor do i think this is needed. For future references, please try and take into consideration not everyone min/maxing in this game nor does everyone have billions of inf to fully IO before they're even 50. IO's are fun and good, but not the base of the game.

Edited December 29, 2019 by Super Atom

[SeraphimKensai]

Whoa. The thread kind of blew up with responses since I posted it.

 

Thanks for taking an interest in it. Let's keep it civil though, we're all on the same team, if we weren't we probably wouldn't be here together with a shared interest. This post is merely a suggestion, and realistically something likely not on a table anytime soon.

 

That said, to clarify a couple of things:

*I initially suggested the recharge reduction to make controlling groups fun and honestly worth taking the power as you can use it a little more (I'm personally not opposed to lowering the duration some to compensate, but that's just me). 

*I also wouldn't mind a +5 or +6 difficulty slider, as I do agree that when you build out with IO's the game can get pretty easy. Alas that's a bit of another discussion though.

 

Thanks again, and as always much love.

[Redlynne]

3 hours ago, Super Atom said:

The point stops at the SO level. Powers are balanced around SO and need to stay that way.

While I appreciate the attempt to defend my contribution ... there is (sadly) a higher priority that must take precedence.

 

DON'T FEED THE CONCERN TROLL(S).

 

Because ... let's be honest here ... there are some fights that just aren't worth the effort it takes to fight them, for the "winning" is not worth the effort and the "fighting" is not worth the cost.  Let them think that their braying of "NAY!" has won the day ... while privately noting that they have not provided a single positive thing or constructive idea, let alone a counter-proposal, in what they have been so determined to waste your time about.

 

'Tis a very simple thing to do ... once you get the hang of it, because a closed mind is a terrible thing to waste your precious attention span on.

[Myrmidon]

7 hours ago, Panthonca7034 said:

 

Whenever you start tinkering with ANY aspect of the code (and I've observed certain other things get wonky as a result) that tinkering is going to BREAK something else entirely different which might have a dependency or hidden link to that other piece of code.

 Gauntlet says “Hi”.

[Myrmidon]

2 hours ago, Crysta Clear said:

No, because you're refusing to understand that SO balance doesn't matter. There is no relevant balance at "SO-tier." There isn't even an "SO-tier," since you should be getting attuned set IOs while you're levelling! Set IOs aren't even a 50-only or late-game thing. Set IOs are available from very early levels. LotG can be slotted at 22nd. ATOs at 10th. So kindly take your "game is balanced around SO's" garbage and climb in the dumpster with it.

I have to agree, since now I start all of my characters (27 now) with IO sets as early as I can slot them. Anyone that says that this isn’t a good way to play should be drug tested, because it easily equals (or exceeds) standard SO-level slotting.

 

With IO sets going for dollar store prices, people only have to settle for common SO-range play because they want to.

Edited December 29, 2019 by Myrmidon

[MTeague]

9 hours ago, Saiyajinzoningen said:

i agree but i also think a higher difficulty level will make mezzes more relevant in general. Also can we switch out mass confusion for the penelope yin mind pet?

Hey!  Keep your paws off Mass Confusion, I love that power.  I'm fine if an additional power that's mutually exclusive with it is added to Mind Control, but don't be messin with my fav toy.

[Parabola]

To my mind the aoe holds have become very optional powers, emergency use at best. I'm tending to leave them out these days favouring powers that can be used on every spawn. If that fits the design intention then that's fine but if not perhaps they could do with a tweak.

[Haijinx]

5 hours ago, Myrmidon said:

I have to agree, since now I start all of my characters (27 now) with IO sets as early as I can slot them. Anyone that says that this isn’t a good way to play should be drug tested, because it easily equals (or exceeds) standard SO-level slotting.

 

With IO sets going for dollar store prices, people only have to settle for common SO-range play because they want to.

The whole SO level balance thing should be gradually phased out. 

 

Sure it was optional way back when.  

 

But cmon.  The game is getting to be like playing with console cheats now. 

 

[Leogunner]

6 hours ago, Super Atom said:

Since i'm blocked and that trog can't respond anyway, I'm not asking for buffs nor do i think this is needed. For future references, please try and take into consideration not everyone min/maxing in this game nor does everyone have billions of inf to fully IO before they're even 50. IO's are fun and good, but not the base of the game.

Most of my characters aren't min/maxed. With just some damage procs, some globals to help out recovery and basic IOs, most characters can comfortably solo at +1/x3 and depending on power set combo, +2/x5 (my only controller, ice/TA, sits at +2/x4 with only a boat load of procs, no set bonuses). At that point, you're already owning the game. Any higher than that and you're hitting hard limits like target and aggro caps. 

 

The main reason I'm contrary to a lot of blanket buffs is because I look at these changes through the lens of a mid level standard team. What use does a team have for a single controller to 100% lock down nearly every foe? Why would you need heals or defensive buffs? Why would you need aggro control? Why would you need a 2nd control AT on the team? 

 

Pure and simple: No one needs that much control! Same that no one needs their defense capped 100% of the time but people still do it lol. But that doesn't mean throw all limits out the door and remove all nerfs, remove all crashes, remove all caps.

 

If the recharge and duration is to be reduced on AoE hold not because it's necessary but rather it be "nice", I would only agree if the area and target cap were also soundly limited (15ft, 8 targets). At least then, it's more a decent tool for solo but has limited capacity for teaming.