What's the deal?

[KelvinKole]

Imagine I know nothing about your species (I don't). What's the deal? 

 

Why would one play a PB or WS over other archetypes? What do you like about it?

 

Why would one play a PB over a WS, or vice-versa? 

 

 

[Troo]

1 minute ago, KelvinKole said:

Why would one play a PB or WS over other archetypes?

to try something different. tri form is definitely different.

[Seigmoraig]

6 minutes ago, KelvinKole said:

Why would one play a PB or WS over other archetypes? What do you like about it?

*insert tentacle porn joke here*

[MrSnottyPants]

It's a bare-bones blaster, tank, and utility character stapled together.  The strength comes from switching during combat to match the situation - ex: switch to Dwarf to ride out a control effect, wait until you knock the boss down, switch to Nova to do more damage.

 

PB and WS Nova (blaster) forms are nearly identical.  Dwarf (tank) has a few differences.  Human has the most.  WS human has more control, and wants live/dead targets to fuel its abilities.  PB human is a more straight-forward experience, with better damage options.

[nicoliy]

I love Kheldians, enough so that I'm planning my Peacebringer now and already have a very expensive built out WS (both a human only and tri form build). This archetype is a bit of a do what you want to do with it. You may notice a few of us here, and on discord, that talk about all sorts of different builds and play styles. On a classic AT you tend to know what you are getting into and you might only have a couple powers from your primary and secondary that differ from most others playing the same set. On Kheldians you will find us all having a few staple powers, but tons of diversity otherwise.

 

As an example, you will find Doom tends to focus more on his tank form for WS whereas I pushed human attacks more. Some rely on gravimetric emanation where I might do unchained essence, etc. It's the kind of AT where when you hit 50 you start realizing you can completely change how you approach the game play based on a couple powers or sets, and you will experiment constantly.

[Microcosm]

1) Different and interesting. In some cases unique powers or mechanics.

2) Varied utility rolled into one character.

3) Extreme survival tools in the realm of pretty much only some tankers, with very high AoE damage as well. Trade-off of lower single-target damage.

4) Fun leveling progression. You get major rewards and a bunch of extra powers at 6 and 20 in the forms. People complain this makes them too slot starved, but you just need to be smart about it. Nova at 6 is really, really nice to get you through early levels, or to exempt down and wreck a posi tf.

 

In terms of one or the other, it depends a lot on what you like. PBs are more consistent, but don't reach the heights of Warshades in AoE damage or survival. But PBs do better single target damage.

[Redlynne]

8 hours ago, KelvinKole said:

Imagine I know nothing about your species (I don't). What's the deal?

Rule of Cool ...

 

My Peacebringer's $battlecry is ... "Go TOWARDS the light...!"

My Warshade's $battlecry is ... "Your soul is my chewtoy!"

8 hours ago, KelvinKole said:

Why would one play a PB or WS over other archetypes?

Similar outcomes by different means, leading to a more varied playing experience.

8 hours ago, KelvinKole said:

What do you like about it?

Kheldians are ... versatile.  They also are something of a mental challenge to the Player to keep up with all of the options/choices you have from moment to moment while in combat.  So they're more ... complex ... and tend to have multiple strategies beyond being a One Trick Pony™.

8 hours ago, KelvinKole said:

Why would one play a PB over a WS, or vice-versa? 

Style ... and preferences of playstyle.  Peacebringers play remarkably differently from Warshades.  Peacebringers are far more "self contained" in that you don't need to rely on stuff outside yourself to "fuel" your powers.  To me, Warshades feel like Necromancers ... draining corpses and enslaving their essences to do your bidding (for a time).

[Doomrider]

22 hours ago, KelvinKole said:

 

Why would one play a PB or WS over other archetypes? What do you like about it?

 

Adaptable, challenging and versatile. (disclaimer: my experiences are going to be coming from a Tri-form perspective)

Adaptable in the sense that while some folks often talk about roles when playing CoH; this AT is good at X role, or this AT is good at Y role etc, etc... Kheldians are often described as being able to switch forms to fill different roles as the team requires. This often lends to them being referred to as a jack of all trades, master of none. I don't look at it that way though, nor do I think that should be how the class is defined. Khelds should not merely be defined by the tools they choose to use at any given juncture but rather by the sum of their parts. When you choose a Kheld and more specifically to play as a Tri-form Kheld, you do not swap forms to "Blaster mode" (Nova) or "Tank mode" (Dwarf), you are all forms simultaneously and as such you have the ability to be multiple roles simultaneously.  

Challenging in the sense that the skill ceiling for a Kheldian is high, much more so than most conventional ATs. At their most optimum performance, the effort required to play, learn and master are much higher than traditional AT's and some would argue Binds and Macros are almost a requirement. This is seen to some as a detriment more so than a useful tool. Often I hear "Why would I put in all that effort when I can get the same performance out of another AT with much less work". If you see it as work, of course you will not find enjoyment in it, but for those of us who have put in the time to learn and master Kheldians, they are quite rewarding. I don't get bored with my Khelds, there is a reason I continue to play mine and have for years. Player performance almost matters more than build when it comes to Khelds which I think, at least in my experience, is perhaps less so on other ATs. 

The versatility comes from being adaptable but it is also earned by taking the road less traveled and learning mastery over the class. People say Khelds don't bring anything to the group and I think that's a bit short sighted. While their inherent doesn't necessarily bolster the team, having the team bolster the Kheldian by way of that inherent is indirectly benefiting the team because as a Kheld you are the backbone of your group. For a well seasoned Kheldian player, when things turn south you have ability to react and counter in even the most dire of circumstances. If the tank over aggros, you can take on the additional aggro with ease. If the damage dealers faceplant you can nuke the mobs into orbit and give a squishy cover to rez. Even if the tank goes down, you should still be the last one standing. For that reason I also heavily encourage all Kheldian players take Vengeance and take it early. The last thing I will say about versatility is just to echo @nicoliy's point when it comes to build choices. With Khelds having such a wide array of powers also comes a wide array of ways to build your Kheldian.
 

23 hours ago, KelvinKole said:

 

Why would one play a PB over a WS, or vice-versa? 

 

As others have stated, Peacebringers tend to be more self-contained and have a more consistent performance while Warshades will excel in situations with higher mob saturation, so more peaks and valleys than a Peacebringer and thus the aoe damage output ceiling is naturally a bit higher for Warshades but PB's ST performance is stronger.

Peacebringer performance will generally be better during extended fights when there are fewer mobs or concentrations of mobs to buff off of. For example, when fighting the Hami at the end of the LGTF, there are basically no clusters of enemies to buff of off so the Warshade will see a lesser damage resistance buff when using Eclipse against a single Mito where as the Peacebringer will be using Light Form to cap his dmg resistances (except for Psi) and this requires no target or to-hit check.


 

[KelvinKole]

Okay, you folks convinced me to try it. I'm leaning Warshade as I want to try something that's very unique and it sounds a bit more complicated than Peacebringer.

 

I guess I'll see what I like best between human form and tri-form, but doesn't anyone have a list of skippable powers for WS? Are there any that are just low hanging fruit and never get taken or used?

[Gulbasaur]

17 minutes ago, KelvinKole said:

Okay, you folks convinced me to try it. I'm leaning Warshade as I want to try something that's very unique and it sounds a bit more complicated than Peacebringer.

 

I guess I'll see what I like best between human form and tri-form, but doesn't anyone have a list of skippable powers for WS? Are there any that are just low hanging fruit and never get taken or used?

Look up the "MF Warshade" - it's a complex build and playstyle that revolves around switching between forms to stack up buffs and then going into magetank mode and blowing everything to smithereens. 

Warshades benefit more from multi-form action than peacebringers, who probably perform best when they flip-flop between human and nova forms, leaving dwarf as backup for emergencies. 

 

Peacebringers tend to be more self-reliant, whereas warshades use enemies to buff themselves. This means that peacebringers have a lower ceiling but cope better 1-1, whereas warshades can get themselves to higher heights but if they don't have the bodies to use to buff up, they can struggle a bit. 

Edited January 30, 2020 by Gulbasaur

[gyyv]

I lean toward PB's due to the independence.

What I like second most about my PB is I can push the pace of a team.  If the team needs more aggressive tanking, I can do it. If the team needs more damage I can do it.
Now I'm not that altruistic, as what I like MOST, is after getting the team moving quickly, I'll withhold damage or tanking, (cat aggro) and cause a team wipe.

That's when I get requests for links to my build :D

[Microcosm]

1 hour ago, KelvinKole said:

Okay, you folks convinced me to try it. I'm leaning Warshade as I want to try something that's very unique and it sounds a bit more complicated than Peacebringer.

 

I guess I'll see what I like best between human form and tri-form, but doesn't anyone have a list of skippable powers for WS? Are there any that are just low hanging fruit and never get taken or used?

Off the top of my head

Highly skippable: Shadow Bolt, Shadow Slip, the rez, Dark Detonation*, enemy tp clone

Skippable: Essence Drain, Inky Aspect*, Orbiting Death*, Toggle Shields*°, Shadow Blast*

People will disagree: Unchain Essence

Never ever skip: Eclipse, Sunless mire, Stygian Circle, Gravity well, the pet, the nuke, hasten

 

*Might not want to skip if human only

°Might want to respec out of later

[Timeshadow]

2 hours ago, KelvinKole said:

Okay, you folks convinced me to try it. I'm leaning Warshade as I want to try something that's very unique and it sounds a bit more complicated than Peacebringer.

 

I guess I'll see what I like best between human form and tri-form, but doesn't anyone have a list of skippable powers for WS? Are there any that are just low hanging fruit and never get taken or used?

I really don't recommend going Human only, especially on a WS.  You lose out on the extra damage boost from Black Dwarf Mire (A shorter duration copy of Human form's Sunless Mire).  Stacking both Mires together is what gives Warshades a lot of their crazy burst DPS potential.  On top of that, you lose the utility from the other two forms, which is kinda the point of running a Kheld in the first place.

Granted, I've always been biased toward Khelds taking and using their forms as a default way to play the AT.  I even wrote a guide about it back in the live server days.  YMMV.

[siolfir]

13 hours ago, Microcosm said:

People will disagree: Unchain Essence

Never ever skip: Eclipse, Sunless mire, Stygian Circle, Gravity well, the pet, the nuke, hasten

Not too many people will disagree that Unchain Essence is skippable. But it's fun to run up to a group of mobs, kill one of them, explode the body to hurt the others, and then rip what's left out to do your bidding as a fuzzy ball of floating doom killing all of their friends.

 

The one that might get some disagreement (although not from me) is Hasten: I always grab it but I've seen posts from several others who say they never take it.

[nicoliy]

4 minutes ago, siolfir said:

Not too many people will disagree that Unchain Essence is skippable. But it's fun to run up to a group of mobs, kill one of them, explode the body to hurt the others, and then rip what's left out to do your bidding as a fuzzy ball of floating doom killing all of their friends.

 

The one that might get some disagreement (although not from me) is Hasten: I always grab it but I've seen posts from several others who say they never take it.

I have, use, and love unchain; and can agree it is one power that is not vital. At the same time that’s what makes warshades fun, the ability to have tweaks like this in the build. 

[Redlynne]

Hasten is only "necessary" if you want to perma long duration powers like Light Form/Eclipse and/or the Build Up powers.  Hasten allows you to build attack chains using fewer powers since the powers you're using recharge fast enough to use those "shorter" attack chains, thereby increasing slotting efficiency in which you need to slot up fewer powers.

[Camel]

Good luck! With inspiration from @Doomrider I managed to make my own unique build for my Warshade. Patience is key, especially if you have no experience. It took me much longer than any other build to even get an acceptable baseline for what I wanted it to be. I also got really lucky, my Tri-Form build exceeded all of my expectations and I haven’t found a need to change anything... YET. As others have stated, even with experience, it can be a lot to micro-manage while playing. I played my Warshade for weeks and still sometimes found myself overwhelmed by what I could potentially do next. It was the hardest AT I’ve ever had to learn, but also the most rewarding. I have zero binds (I’m a clicker, but a pretty darn good one I’d imagine) and I was actually surprised at how click friendly it became once I got the muscle memory down. Just be patient, and put the work in, you won’t regret it!

Edited February 6, 2020 by cazden121