Removable Transparency Concealment PLZ

[scrapsifound]

I enjoy the concealment set but I hate forced transparency effect can there be a costume setting that turns it off as 'noFX"?

[Outrider_01]

4 hours ago, scrapsifound said:

I enjoy the concealment set but I hate forced transparency effect can there be a costume setting that turns it off as 'noFX"?

There is a minimal setting for some armor sets, Hasten, and combat jumping. Shouldn't he a difficult task to apply it to aura type powers.

[CU_Krow]

I'm confused.

 

Are you basically asking for  visible invisibility?

 

Edited February 7, 2020 by CU_Krow

[SwitchFade]

For a bunch of reasons I comically just won't bother posting, I have to say no vote.

 

Look, I'm invisible!

 

But I can see you...

 

Nuh uh!

[TraumaTrain]

He wants to benefit from Stealth or Invisibility (and still pay all the costs) but be able to fully see his character. A "no FX" option.

 

Sounds okay to me. Is voting actually a thing here? I will always vote yes for more costuming options.

[Saiyajinzoningen]

ok so 1 few things to unpack here and this is NOT a /jranger i swear.

 

1. Stalker hide has the words (hidden) in the upper righthand corner, stealth has no such function, how would you know if you are successfully hidden without the effect?

2. I actually prefer the OG stealth effect, they lost it when they took out the -movement speed penalty

[SwitchFade]

1 hour ago, TraumaTrain said:

He wants to benefit from Stealth or Invisibility (and still pay all the costs) but be able to fully see his character. A "no FX" option.

 

Sounds okay to me. Is voting actually a thing here? I will always vote yes for more costuming options.

How do I know he's invis if I can't tell and he's on my team? There are situations that require invis and fast verification by a teammate is the visual.

[Bossk_Hogg]

2 hours ago, SwitchFade said:

How do I know he's invis if I can't tell and he's on my team? There are situations that require invis and fast verification by a teammate is the visual.

It could be a self-only visual. If I'm hidden, I should be able to see myself anyways, right?

 

Could it just be an option like turning on/off certain sounds? 

 

I fully support this. A lot of fun is in customization of our costumes. The option of niding it under a mass of particles and stealth effects seems like a pure QoL issue. 

[Haijinx]

1 hour ago, Bossk_Hogg said:

It could be a self-only visual. If I'm hidden, I should be able to see myself anyways, right?

 

Could it just be an option like turning on/off certain sounds? 

 

I fully support this. A lot of fun is in customization of our costumes. The option of niding it under a mass of particles and stealth effects seems like a pure QoL issue. 

Self only works imo

 

A lot of us are getting too old to easily see mostly invisible people contrasted in a cartoon world. 

 

Id suggest /EA energy glow. .. or Scorpion shield.  The effects do a decent job of highlighting your character.  

 

 

 

 

[Haijinx]

3 hours ago, SwitchFade said:

How do I know he's invis if I can't tell and he's on my team? There are situations that require invis and fast verification by a teammate is the visual.

While I advocate the self only visible approach ..

 

I'm curious what these situations are?

 

I've never once cared whether some one on my team was stealthed or not in City of Heroes.  

 

Age of Conan, sure, since it was much easier to die and maybe we were carefully sneaking to the top of a mountain or something ..  but COH?

 

 

[CU_Krow]

Ok, basically this thread can be summed up in as " I want visible invisibility during my costume maker/tailor options."

 

My main is a stalker and least half of my toons use stealth. Even such, my vote is no. 

[Bossk_Hogg]

3 minutes ago, CU_Krow said:

Ok, basically this thread can be summed up in as " I want visible invisibility during my costume maker/tailor options."

 

My main is a stalker and least half of my toons use stealth. Even such, my vote is no. 

Why? Just to be petty? Dont turn it on if you hate looking at your character.

[CU_Krow]

2 hours ago, Bossk_Hogg said:

Why? Just to be petty? Dont turn it on if you hate looking at your character.

Bluntly, I think its a silly idea.

[Sif]

25 minutes ago, CU_Krow said:

Bluntly, I think its a silly idea.

Could you elaborate on what way you think it's silly?

From an in-universe perspective, there's many canons where people have used stealth/invisibility by manipulating the minds of others (Doctor Who - the TARDIS does this to a limited extent, X-Men - psychic powers many times, Ghost in the Shell - hacking someone's eyes, all spring to mind), without actually obscuring themselves physically at all. From an in-universe perspective, this would remove friction for more concepts. Seems to perfectly explain stealth/invisibility to me while not making your costume translucent (if not, seems like you should object to your costume being at all visible when "invisible").

 

From an out-of-universe perspective, PvP isn't impacted (minimal fx in pvp was dealt with long ago). There's the "situations" SwitchFade above alluded to, but, I'm struggling to think of any instances. A team deciding to stealth a mission? Can leverage combat attributes for yourself, and someone using grant invis wouldn't be impacted when figuring out to reapply it. IIRC, Stealth / Stealth IO don't modify your translucency when suppressed, so you can't visually depend on them anyways to know when it's actually making you stealthy.

[Kaika]

I find the fact that people are arguing against the idea of being able to see your costume somewhat clearly most of the time on characters that rely on stealth or invisibility odd, as IMO its along the same vein as the Granite armor which people are pretty united about wanting more options for.

 

At the end of the day the current status of "Stealth" is really information only important to the player playing the character so I don't see why giving the option for the player to forgo this info to see their costume clearly (one of the core features of the game) without turning it off entirely would be met with opposition.

 

However, that in mind I do somewhat understand that having you character fully visible while "invisible" would kinda odd.

 

My suggestion would be to make is so "stealth" powers can have the fade removed entirely (AKA no transparency) as you can already get stealth in several flavors like this (Super speed, DA with no Fade option). While invisibility powers can be changed to "Light fade" or something like that, closer to what powers like steamy mist do or what suppressed hide looks like (changed the suppressed state to fully visible) that way they still retain a indication that this player is fully invisible.

 

Personally though I'm for more player options as someone who is currently maining a stalker its annoying not being able to see my costume in full most of the time, without stopping to turn off Hide which is a core component of how the character works. Its also the reason I haven't made a a /Energy Brute/Scrap since I don't like that idea of constantly being a silhouette most of the time. 

 

[Haijinx]

Never mind the fact there are sneaky types that aren't actually invisible .. at least conceptually.  

 

When Batman does his stealth take down montagues he doesn't turn on a cloaking device. 

 

But personally I see it more as a QOL thing.  Playing an almost invisible character induces more eyestrain than one that isn't hard to see on my screen. 

 

The comment about getting older was a serious one.  Most of us played COH time first time around.

 

Nowadays we probably have a pretty old average age for a MMO ..

[Kaika]

27 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

Never mind the fact there are sneaky types that aren't actually invisible .. at least conceptually.  

 

When Batman does his stealth take down montagues he doesn't turn on a cloaking device. 

This as well 100%, there are load of concepts for stealth or invisibility that can have your character not being see through.

 

Maybe you have a character whos gimmick is they are supernaturally uninteresting so people just ignore them. Or say you are a psychic and you remove yourself from your enemies vision mentally. You could have a character who really makes use of the 10 costume slot and disguises as whatever they are fighting. Not every character that uses stealth, hide or invisibility needs to be literally invisible.

Edited February 7, 2020 by Riot Siren

[Coyotedancer]

I could see "unnoticed/unseen, but NOT actually invisible" working for quite a few concepts...

 

I have a pair of psychic types, for instance, who both currently have Stealth IOs slotted in Sprint. I've been calling that sneakiness the result of concealment cantrips since they're both magi, but if we had this as an option? I'd probably use it with both Arte and Dorian, and instead define their going unnoticed as something more akin to a Jedi mind-trick than outright magic. A simple mental bit of manipulation... "You don't see me."/"I'm not the hero you're looking for."/"I'm Bob from Accounting."/"I'm somebody else's problem." 

 

Granted I *could* still say that, but it's a little goofier to do so when they're both standing there being semi-transparent. o_0

[CU_Krow]

16 hours ago, Sif said:

Could you elaborate on what way you think it's silly?

From an in-universe perspective, there's many canons where people have used stealth/invisibility by manipulating the minds of others (Doctor Who - the TARDIS does this to a limited extent, X-Men - psychic powers many times, Ghost in the Shell - hacking someone's eyes, all spring to mind), without actually obscuring themselves physically at all. From an in-universe perspective, this would remove friction for more concepts. Seems to perfectly explain stealth/invisibility to me while not making your costume translucent (if not, seems like you should object to your costume being at all visible when "invisible").

 

From an out-of-universe perspective, PvP isn't impacted (minimal fx in pvp was dealt with long ago). There's the "situations" SwitchFade above alluded to, but, I'm struggling to think of any instances. A team deciding to stealth a mission? Can leverage combat attributes for yourself, and someone using grant invis wouldn't be impacted when figuring out to reapply it. IIRC, Stealth / Stealth IO don't modify your translucency when suppressed, so you can't visually depend on them anyways to know when it's actually making you stealthy.

Let's look at the Stealth power:

 

Stealth

""""You blend into your environment and can only be seen at very close range. Even if discovered, you are hard to see and have a bonus to Defense from all attacks. If, however, you attack while using this power, you will be discovered and will lose your Stealth and some of your Defense bonus. While Stealthy, your movement is Slowed. Stealth will not work with any other form of Concealment power such as Shadow Fall or Steamy Mist. Very low Endurance cost.""""

 

There is NOTHING in the description of this power that promotes mind-manipulation, psych-altering, etc. It even says "You are hard to see, unless as close range."  Sounds to me like you just want a completely different power. If that's the case, petition to the Devs for a new stealth ability that says something like "While this ability is on, surrounding enemies are blinded to your presence. within a X amount of radius, making it appear as if you are invisible, even though you're not." Heck, I might even be on board with that, but the whole "I want to be visible while invisible power is on" is just silly to me. My vote is still no.

 

 

[Mikewho]

I highly support this suggestion. I monitor my pve stealth radius to tell whether I am stealthed. I would like a way for the visual effect not to happen, so my costume is easier to see.

[Sif]

25 minutes ago, CU_Krow said:

Let's look at the Stealth power:

 

Stealth

""""You blend into your environment and can only be seen at very close range. Even if discovered, you are hard to see and have a bonus to Defense from all attacks. If, however, you attack while using this power, you will be discovered and will lose your Stealth and some of your Defense bonus. While Stealthy, your movement is Slowed. Stealth will not work with any other form of Concealment power such as Shadow Fall or Steamy Mist. Very low Endurance cost.""""

 

There is NOTHING in the description of this power that promotes mind-manipulation, psych-altering, etc. It even says "You are hard to see, unless as close range."  Sounds to me like you just want a completely different power. If that's the case, petition to the Devs for a new stealth ability that says something like "While this ability is on, surrounding enemies are blinded to your presence. within a X amount of radius, making it appear as if you are invisible, even though you're not." Heck, I might even be on board with that, but the whole "I want to be visible while invisible power is on" is just silly to me. My vote is still no.

 

 

First off, really? Your objection is the flavor text? Okay then, that seems really silly to me, but let's roll with that.

 

Blend in, let's roll with that. Batman's stealth comes from "blending in" to the environment (via hiding in the shadows)... I don't recall him depending on becoming transparent to 'blend into his environment'. Or, another: camo. Camo is used all the time in the real world to 'blend into your environment', but that doesn't involve becoming transparent and ghostly (systems depending on mirrors and projection are still pretty bad and experimental).

 

"Invisibility" from Concealment explicitly says bending light around you, but, again, it's just flavor text.

[Sura]

57 minutes ago, CU_Krow said:

Let's look at the Stealth power:

 

Stealth

""""You blend into your environment and can only be seen at very close range. Even if discovered, you are hard to see and have a bonus to Defense from all attacks. If, however, you attack while using this power, you will be discovered and will lose your Stealth and some of your Defense bonus. While Stealthy, your movement is Slowed. Stealth will not work with any other form of Concealment power such as Shadow Fall or Steamy Mist. Very low Endurance cost.""""

 

There is NOTHING in the description of this power that promotes mind-manipulation, psych-altering, etc. It even says "You are hard to see, unless as close range."  Sounds to me like you just want a completely different power. If that's the case, petition to the Devs for a new stealth ability that says something like "While this ability is on, surrounding enemies are blinded to your presence. within a X amount of radius, making it appear as if you are invisible, even though you're not." Heck, I might even be on board with that, but the whole "I want to be visible while invisible power is on" is just silly to me. My vote is still no.

 

 

There's NOTHING in that description that states the source of that power; that whole description is about what the power does, not where it comes from.  

[Menelruin]

People like to make fancy costumes, and see them.

 

There's an AT whose core mechanic removes that fun.  Fixing this would have no negative impact on anyone who didn't want it, and would have negligible negative impact on those who want it. 

 

"Silly" isn't a good reason to shoot someone down in a game full of flying people who shoot lasers from their eyes and fireballs from their asses.  If it's easy, it makes people happy, and it doesn't hurt anyone, why not?

[Kaika]

1 hour ago, CU_Krow said:

Let's look at the Stealth power:

 

Stealth

""""You blend into your environment and can only be seen at very close range. Even if discovered, you are hard to see and have a bonus to Defense from all attacks. If, however, you attack while using this power, you will be discovered and will lose your Stealth and some of your Defense bonus. While Stealthy, your movement is Slowed. Stealth will not work with any other form of Concealment power such as Shadow Fall or Steamy Mist. Very low Endurance cost.""""

 

There is NOTHING in the description of this power that promotes mind-manipulation, psych-altering, etc. It even says "You are hard to see, unless as close range."  Sounds to me like you just want a completely different power. If that's the case, petition to the Devs for a new stealth ability that says something like "While this ability is on, surrounding enemies are blinded to your presence. within a X amount of radius, making it appear as if you are invisible, even though you're not." Heck, I might even be on board with that, but the whole "I want to be visible while invisible power is on" is just silly to me. My vote is still no.

 

 

I don't think quoting flavor text written in 2004ish before the game was even released and power customization was even on the radar is a really good argument.

 

Alot of powers go against their flavor text, especially after you take power customization into consideration, For example Flash from illusion

 

"Generates a brilliant flash of light around you that blinds nearby foes."

 

But you can make the power Dark and very dull if you like. Not really a Brilliant flash of light in that case.

 

Heck Dark Armor already lets you turn off the fade and the power states that 

 

"A shroud of Netherworld darkness envelops you, making you difficult to spot at a distance. You can be seen only at close range,"

If you turn off effects this is very much not the case and other players can see you at any distance.

 

Flavor text is just that, Flavor. CoH has always been about letting the player define how their character works. That's why we have things like power customization in the first place.

[Saiyajinzoningen]

The last time they adjusted the stealth power they nearly broke it. i like the old saying "if it ain't broke don't fix it" especially considering its track record. Regardless of this i love stealth i take it nearly every single toon. However without some other CUE to indicate that's its currently being effective i have to vote no.