Would you sacrifice Def for Psi resist?

[Xandyr]

So, I was playing around in Mids reborn, seeing if I could improve my Rad/Spines tank any. 

 Eventually,  I was able to get capped resistance to smash/lethal/fire/energy/toxic/ and psychic. However, in doing so I am going to sacrifice and only have positional defense (melee/ranged/AoE) in the mid to upper 20s. This is without incarnate powers.

 As he is now, the tank is "fine". Holds aggro well, survives, and brings a lot of value to teams (at least I think so). He offers -regen, -slow, - to hit debuff (Soul Mastery: Darkest Night), and of course a team heal.

 But, being a tank, there's ALWAYS room for improvement, right? Would it be beneficial to sacrifice a little defense in order to cap your Psi resistance? I wanna hear your all's thoughts.

[Bopper]

What exactly are the numbers we're talking about for defense? Also, was anything else sacrificed (max HP, regen, etc)?

[Xandyr]

I'm taking a break from cleaning right now, but if memory serves me correctly the only difference between the 2 builds was about 5% positional defense. HP/Regen was about the same, and I was able to fit another slot into hasten.

[Bopper]

You only need 2 slots in Hasten, if you can afford about 13 million in enhancement boosters (+5 them both, and you now have 2.5 recharges in Hasten instead of 2).

 

If you went from 30-35% to 25-30% in defenses, I think you're fine with the sacrifice. I'm curious what your type defenses are, as opposed to positional.

[MrAxe]

No.

[Xandyr]

50 minutes ago, Bopper said:

You only need 2 slots in Hasten, if you can afford about 13 million in enhancement boosters (+5 them both, and you now have 2.5 recharges in Hasten instead of 2).

 

If you went from 30-35% to 25-30% in defenses, I think you're fine with the sacrifice. I'm curious what your type defenses are, as opposed to positional.

I'll pull it up later and see. I only had 1 slot in hasten. The new build would have 2.

 

And has anyone noticed that the numbers in Mids don't represent "true" values in game? They're close, but there's still a small discrepancy.

[Gauntlet_Prime]

In my mind i would give up some res for positional def any day.  Getting hit less often on a set with an okay heal and then having absorb and mediocre resists sounds better then getting hit for a little bit more often.  Feels like a missed heal (seeing as the heal requires the proc) could be iffy.  That said it would still be very capable and definitely not squishy.  It is just how I prefer to have my own tanks play.

[Bopper]

21 minutes ago, Xandyr said:

I'll pull it up later and see. I only had 1 slot in hasten. The new build would have 2.

 

And has anyone noticed that the numbers in Mids don't represent "true" values in game? They're close, but there's still a small discrepancy.

Mids was last updated at the end of last year. I dont know what version you have, but you should be on 2.6.0.7. Eitherway, tankers have had a major update since then that Mids won't accurately reflect. For example, damage modifiers for Tank Melee and epics have been increased substantially. Number of targets for AoEs have mostly increased. Single target proc calculations are wrong because they use the old gauntlet AoE radius in its calculations. Also Maneuvers slightly increased in effectiveness (maybe other leadership powers too)

[Odhinn]

Normally over time 2% resistance equals around 1% defense. That is not a hard and fast rule  but, over several attacks the total damage taken equals that.

 

*Fixed the numbers (I had them backwards).

Edited February 23, 2020 by Odhinn

[Bopper]

13 minutes ago, Odhinn said:

Normally over time 1% resistance equals around 2% defense. That is not a hard and fast rule  but, over several attacks the total damage taken equals that.

You accidentally got it backwards (2% resistance = 1% defense). Although in general, there's truth to that, in actuality it is depends on how close you are to the limits (90% res, 45% def). If you are at 89% resistance and 0% defense, adding that last 1% of resistance is worth 4.55% defense. On the flip side, if you are at 44% defense and 0% resistance, adding that last 1% of defense is equivalent to adding 16.67% resistance.

Edited February 22, 2020 by Bopper

[Microcosm]

Psi is pretty rare, but when it exists there tends to be a lot of it. If it were me, I would rather keep what you had and maybe do a second build specifically for things that are primarily psi damage. Best of both worlds.

[Bopper]

2 minutes ago, Microcosm said:

Psi is pretty rare, but when it exists there tends to be a lot of it. If it were me, I would rather keep what you had and maybe do a second build specifically for things that are primarily psi damage. Best of both worlds.

I did that with my granite tank. My main I designed for max damage while maintaining capped in resistance and defense for all other types. My 2nd build replaced my damage capabilities for 80-90% psi resistance.

[Microcosm]

1 minute ago, Bopper said:

I did that with my granite tank. My main I designed for max damage while maintaining capped in resistance and defense for all other types. My 2nd build replaced my damage capabilities for 80-90% psi resistance.

I sort of did as well, after seeing yours 🙂 On my second build, I still went with proccing for damage (I'm only pretending to be a tank), and just went for softcap to psi along with s/l/e/n and some resistances without Granite.

[Bopper]

3 minutes ago, Microcosm said:

I sort of did as well, after seeing yours 🙂 On my second build, I still went with proccing for damage (I'm only pretending to be a tank), and just went for softcap to psi along with s/l/e/n and some resistances without Granite.

Interesting, so you went with softcapping psi defense as opposed to capping psi resistance? I'd like to check out that build.

 

Edit: I went with resistance since I figure I can swap out of granite for minerals if I need to be softcapped in psi defense as well. I do recall I had a build where I capped psi res with 1 stack of the tank proc and had nearly 30% psi defense in granite armor, but I ditched it for run speed. Being able to run 25 mph in granite just felt nice.

Edited February 22, 2020 by Bopper

[Troo]

#1 "Would you sacrifice Def for Psi resist?" Nope

#2 the game provides a way to temporarily address things that come up from time to time. Inspirations.

#3 "playing around in Mids reborn" Don't trust Mids (great tool but it is rarely 100% correct 100% of the time)

 

Lastly, like much of the game, it boils down to preference or trade offs.

[Microcosm]

1 hour ago, Bopper said:

Interesting, so you went with softcapping psi defense as opposed to capping psi resistance? I'd like to check out that build.

 

Edit: I went with resistance since I figure I can swap out of granite for minerals if I need to be softcapped in psi defense as well. I do recall I had a build where I capped psi res with 1 stack of the tank proc and had nearly 30% psi defense in granite armor, but I ditched it for run speed. Being able to run 25 mph in granite just felt nice.

Ya mine is nothing special, just minerals maneuvers and weave. Minerals gives an enormous defense bonus. I've learned from playing ice armor on stalkers that missing out on f/c defense is not a big deal if you have s/l and some resistance.

[Heraclea]

IME the chief issue with psi is not so much the damage - there are always ways to work around incoming damage - as it is the various nasties that are attached to it, like -recharge and constant mez.  Resistance to psi damage will not help you there.

[Infinitum]

Nope, never.

 

Unless its fire, rad or Elec armor thats resistance based, with no native DDR.

 

Then im going full bore for any res number I can get my grubby little hands on, and getting to 45 % melee def.

 

Thats usually enough to survive anything the game can throw at it.

 

And the reason behind this is you have to prioritize what the game gives you in a specific set and work around the weaknesses as best you can.  But don't give up what a set natively gives you to force something it does not.

Edited February 22, 2020 by Infinitum

[Xandyr]

37 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

Nope, never.

 

Unless its fire, rad or Elec armor thats resistance based, with no native DDR.

 

 

Tank is radiation armor 

[Infinitum]

27 minutes ago, Xandyr said:

Tank is radiation armor 

I know. Poor attempt at humor. Hehe

Edited February 22, 2020 by Infinitum

[Xandyr]

1 hour ago, Infinitum said:

I know. Poor attempt at humor. Hehe

👍

[Microcosm]

5 hours ago, Heraclea said:

IME the chief issue with psi is not so much the damage - there are always ways to work around incoming damage - as it is the various nasties that are attached to it, like -recharge and constant mez.  Resistance to psi damage will not help you there.

That can be true, but I think rad has fairly good slow resistance. Should be able to get to 100% fairly easily with winter IOs. The mez of course could be another story if it really stacks up.

[Odhinn]

11 hours ago, Bopper said:

You accidentally got it backwards (2% resistance = 1% defense). Although in general, there's truth to that, in actuality it is depends on how close you are to the limits (90% res, 45% def). If you are at 89% resistance and 0% defense, adding that last 1% of resistance is worth 4.55% defense. On the flip side, if you are at 44% defense and 0% resistance, adding that last 1% of defense is equivalent to adding 16.67% resistance.

You are absolutely correct.

I fixed my post. Thanks for pointing out my error.

[Zeraphia]

On 2/22/2020 at 9:53 AM, Xandyr said:

So, I was playing around in Mids reborn, seeing if I could improve my Rad/Spines tank any. 

 Eventually,  I was able to get capped resistance to smash/lethal/fire/energy/toxic/ and psychic. However, in doing so I am going to sacrifice and only have positional defense (melee/ranged/AoE) in the mid to upper 20s. This is without incarnate powers.

 As he is now, the tank is "fine". Holds aggro well, survives, and brings a lot of value to teams (at least I think so). He offers -regen, -slow, - to hit debuff (Soul Mastery: Darkest Night), and of course a team heal.

 But, being a tank, there's ALWAYS room for improvement, right? Would it be beneficial to sacrifice a little defense in order to cap your Psi resistance? I wanna hear your all's thoughts.

I actually made a Rad/Spines Tanker that caps every single resistance except for Cold (yeah... I couldn't give less of you-know-what given that I can't even name one hard AV that does cold damage consistently or even a good cold group beyond some CoT which I think you'll be more than capable of surviving. It still maintains 31% S/L and 36% Melee.

It has two excellent proc monsters in Ground Zero and Rad Therapy that deal about 300-400 damage each. Excellent damage. It may end up needing Ageless but if you want to just be a tank and not deal tons of damage and just head up and faceroll AV's, you shouldn't lose too much end.

Definitely not made to beat anything in an ST pylon race, but its AOE is wonderful.

 

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Science Tanker
Primary Power Set: Radiation Armor
Secondary Power Set: Spines
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Alpha Barrier -- UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(A), UnbGrd-ResDam(5), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(5), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(7), UnbGrd-Max HP%(11), ImpArm-ResPsi(19)
Level 1: Barb Swipe -- KntCmb-Acc/Dmg(A), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx(29), KntCmb-Dmg/Rchg(29), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31)
Level 2: Gamma Boost -- PrfShf-End%(A), Prv-Heal(3), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(3)
Level 4: Proton Armor -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(7), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(9), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(9), UnbGrd-EndRdx/Rchg(11), ImpArm-ResPsi(17)
Level 6: Fallout Shelter -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(13), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(13), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(15), UnbGrd-EndRdx/Rchg(15), ImpArm-ResPsi(17)
Level 8: Radiation Therapy -- ScrDrv-Dam%(A), TchoftheN-%Dam(48), Obl-%Dam(48), Erd-%Dam(48), Arm-Dam%(50)
Level 10: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 12: Beta Decay -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 14: Tough -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(19), Ags-Psi/Status(21), ImpArm-ResPsi(23)
Level 16: Weave -- ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Rct-ResDam%(21), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(31), ShlWal-Def(33), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(33), ShlWal-Def/Rchg(34)
Level 18: Particle Shielding -- Prv-Absorb%(A), Prv-Heal(23), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(25), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(25), Prv-Heal/Rchg(27), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(27)
Level 20: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-Def(34), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(34), ShlWal-Def/Rchg(37), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(39)
Level 22: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 24: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(31), RechRdx-I(33)
Level 26: Ground Zero -- HO:Nucle(A), ScrDrv-Dam%(46), Erd-%Dam(46), Obl-%Dam(50), TchofLadG-%Dam(50)
Level 28: Spine Burst -- FuroftheG-ResDeb%(A), Arm-Dmg(42), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(42), Arm-Dmg/Rchg(42), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43), Arm-Acc/Rchg(43)
Level 30: Lunge -- Hct-Dam%(A), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(39), Hct-Dmg(39), Hct-Dmg/Rchg(40), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40), Hct-Acc/Rchg(40)
Level 32: Ripper -- SprGntFis-Rchg/+Absorb(A), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg(43), SprGntFis-Dmg/Rchg(45), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), SprGntFis-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(45), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 35: Quills -- SprMghoft-Rchg/Res%(A), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(36), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg(36), SprMghoft-Dmg/Rchg(36), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37), SprMghoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37)
Level 38: Build Up -- GssSynFr--Build%(A)
Level 41: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 44: Vengeance -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 47: Super Speed -- Run-I(A)
Level 49: Conserve Power -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet 
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A)
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve 
Level 0: Portal Jockey 
Level 0: Task Force Commander 
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion 
------------

[Gulbasaur]

On 2/22/2020 at 2:53 PM, Xandyr said:

 But, being a tank, there's ALWAYS room for improvement, right? Would it be beneficial to sacrifice a little defense in order to cap your Psi resistance? I wanna hear your all's thoughts.

Psi damage is mostly covered by positionals. Yes, there are a small number of non-position psi attacks but they are so few in number I really wouldn't bother. 

 

On the other hand, most 50-ish teams have so much passive defence that you probably don't need it as everyone and their cat seems to use Maneuvers, so even if you do lower your defence, you're probably fine.